Will you download the Covid-19 app?

[eckmf]

So, let me get this right. If you download this app you may one night when you are siting in watching the TV get some random phoning you up to say our records show that you have been in contact with someone (when and how ?) who has tested positive for Covid-19....so please stay in your house and don't go out at all for the next fortnight. Do they really think this is going to work ?

the answer to your question depends on how much you value life and I would like to think enough of us do to make it work.

 

[eckmf]

It's the app announced by the scottish government yesterday I am on about. I don't trust Johnson's mob either.

What is the trust question involving this app? Is it not about helping us get out of this shitstorm? Or is there something more sinister at play? The reason I ask is I am really struggling to understand all the no votes. Am I the only person concerned about the thousands dying in the world?

 

[PILTONSTANY]

What is the trust question involving this app? Is it not about helping us get out of this shitstorm? Or is there something more sinister at play? The reason I ask is I am really struggling to understand all the no votes. Am I the only person concerned about the thousands dying in the world?

The App is being run by a company that sells data,the fear would be that down the line our H-ealth data will be sold off to insurance and private companies.
Some folk are easy about this and others aren’t,it’s down to the individual.

My Dad is 76 and doesn’t own a smartphone,If he gets ill then he’ll phone the doctor.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

Barry

 

[Doc Shrink]

Barry
View attachment 2521

Sounds about par for the course.
What is in essence a very good plan, potentially ruined by the obstinacy and stupidity of 'our' government.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

Sounds about par for the course.
What is in essence a very good plan, potentially ruined by the obstinacy and stupidity of 'our' government.

Yip.
It’s no the App per se that folk are against,it’s the way a Gov advisor has mysteriously been awarded it without going out to tender and the track record of the company involved.

 

[Purple & Green]

I think my personal information would be safer with my govt., of whichever persuasion, than it is with Apple or Google so those of us who already use apps, online banking, even Amazon or search engines have very little left to hide. This is why I've little time for political dogmatism, when it comes to shit like this. The tories suggest it so labour supporters wont do it on principal and vice versa. If it's going to get us back tae fitba', pubs and everything else we enjoy safely and quicker then IMO it would be daft not to.

I think my personal information would be safer with my govt., of whichever persuasion, than it is with Apple or Google so those of us who already use apps, online banking, even Amazon or search engines have very little left to hide. This is why I've little time for political dogmatism, when it comes to shit like this. The tories suggest it so labour supporters wont do it on principal and vice versa. If it's going to get us back tae fitba', pubs and everything else we enjoy safely and quicker then IMO it would be daft not to.

its a bit more than political dogma - even the Tory press are turning on the government over this catastrophe. The government will have wiped out 80,000 people at least by their action and inaction in the first wave. Forgive me for being extremely sceptical that this government can be trusted when all the evidence of my own eyes tells me they can’t.

I’m fundamental nationalist, but I’d apply the same logic if the Scottish government produced an app too. I’m far from convinced they’ve performed to a satisfactory standard either.

 

[Daddy 'O' Hibee]

What is the trust question involving this app? Is it not about helping us get out of this shitstorm? Or is there something more sinister at play? The reason I ask is I am really struggling to understand all the no votes. Am I the only person concerned about the thousands dying in the world?

You come across as passionate about introducing the app to help eliminate the virus, opinions? Your not the only one concerned about this dreadful virus, we're all in it together. Hopefully get it sorted for the future of all our families.

 

[shankssaysno]

To think that these people , care about us is laughable. Ram their app , and anyone who thinks this is a good thing wait till our working rites etc are finished (just lucky you have a job) I work in the care sector and our governing body Sssc has already told us we will work where and when across the sector , whatever the department , and all the qualifications needed and being registered for new staff , well they get 6 months before having to be registered , that means anyone can get a job in care , that means no police checks no SVQ , they could be anyone and able to work with vulnerable people. So from strict guidelines on entry to care sector now none for the first 6 months of a new contract. I don't download any app's .

 

[Amsterdam]

I can see this argument from both sides although I voted yes. Anyone who thinks it’s just google maps tracking us, then just go on YouTube & watch a tutorial on how to switch off all hidden settings in your phone, takes about ten minutes. Also, anyone seen the movie Snowden? If a govt wants to know something about us there isn’t a lot we can do to stop it. The issue will be with the responsible use of the app, whether it’s hacked is one potential problem. Another is false or malicious reporting.
I am willing to try anything to stop this. My thoughts are not about the here & now, I am concerned about the coming autumn winter & want us all to be as prepared as we can. The publicity around it will likely see it fail, also it’s useless without the support network of the 18,000 recruits & the ability to test at an appropriate rate.

 

[Jack]

Further to my earlier posts casting doubts on the app the UK Government has chosen.

The NHSs in England and Scotland each have a thing called the apps library, not sure what the official name is. All official NHS apps must pass tests to be allowed into these libraries unsurprisingly. This app has not passed the tests needed so sits outside the library and I suppose not endorsed by the NHS. Not quite sure the reasons for this but sets off alarm bells me!

There's also growing concern in legal circles over the legality of how the app gathers the information and how its stored. I've read that once you say you think have the virus the information the app holds is downloaded to a government database. Its held there for as long as the government wish to keep it, it becomes their property and they can pass it on without the users consent.

Despite assurances the app cannot run in the background of your phone. So it will run in the foreground and knacker the users battery.

Still a no from me then although I did waver a bit after the OP.

 

[Jamie]

So, let me get this right. If you download this app you may one night when you are siting in watching the TV get some random phoning you up to say our records show that you have been in contact with someone (when and how ?) who has tested positive for Covid-19....so please stay in your house and don't go out at all for the next fortnight. Do they really think this is going to work ?

No, the app will tell you if you have.

If a user or contact declares they have become ill (there is no requirement to have a test) it will send notifications to everybody on that list advising them to self-isolate.

So your phone will have all these keys stored from other peoples phones...(providing they have the same app installed)

If one of those people hit the i am self isolating button on the app it will then send a notification to every single person that has that persons " key " and ask you to self isolate.

 

[SuperTortolano]

Fuck no, not downloading that pish. It’s no more deadly than the regular flu IMO.

 

[Jamie]

Fuck no, not downloading that pish. It’s no more deadly than the regular flu IMO.

Tell that to 29k deed ? flu kills aye but not on this scale.

I wont use it either, simple measures here, keep yer distance, wash well and dinnae touch your face.

 

[SuperTortolano]

Tell that to 29k deed ? flu kills aye but not on this scale.

I wont use it either, simple measures here, keep yer distance, wash well and dinnae touch your face.

I was looking at the numbers in the US and there are many “gray” areas. I looked at the numbers directly from the CDC and they are basically adding deaths by influenza and pneumonia in to the COVID numbers. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but started looking at the facts for myself. Straight from the CDC website, influenzas killed 79,000 people in the US, with almost a million people hospitalized by it. I’m not saying it’s not deadly, it just doesn’t worry me and don’t believe it’s as deadly as made out to be.

 

[Doc Shrink]

I was looking at the numbers in the US and there are many “gray” areas. I looked at the numbers directly from the CDC and they are basically adding deaths by influenza and pneumonia in to the COVID numbers. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but started looking at the facts for myself. Straight from the CDC website, influenzas killed 79,000 people in the US, with almost a million people hospitalized by it. I’m not saying it’s not deadly, it just doesn’t worry me and don’t believe it’s as deadly as made out to be.

View attachment 2522

OK then.

 

[AG1337]

Fuck no, not downloading that pish. It’s no more deadly than the regular flu IMO.

That’s a shite post ST and totally insensitive

 

[SuperTortolano]

That’s a shite post ST and totally insensitive

It's my fucking opinion for fuck sake, nothing insensitive at all.

 

[aggie]

It's my fucking opinion for fuck sake, nothing insensitive at all.

I agree with you, ST, inasmuch as the crucial difference between Covid and seasonal flu is that there is a vaccine and effective treatments for the latter and not for the former.

Currently, it seems to me that most strategies – and indeed most thinking – are founded on the assumption that a vaccine is guaranteed to arrive. That worries me, because it plainly isn't (guaranteed, that is - obvs it might arrive). We seem unwilling to accept that science, well, might not come up with the magic bullet.

Following on from that, now even the most benign line of enquiry that asks "well, if it doesn't, what then?", and worries regarding the destruction being wrought on the economy, is generally met with "YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT LIVES, DO YOU?"

It's maddening, not to mention infantile. As if "lives" and "the economy" can be meaningfully separated anyway in terms of public policy. Marx himself would be mystified at the separation of the two, equally so that this separation is envisaged by the self-same people who frothed with righteous anger at 100s of thousands of deaths being caused by austerity. Austerity is pretty soon going to look like a wistfully-remembered Babylon compared to the Great Depression that's currently coming down the pipe.

I can feel myself just withdrawing from any dialogue, because I'm sick of being treated like some kind of swivel-eyed murderous loon for expressing reservations I consider to be perfectly reasonable.

 

[SuperTortolano]

I agree with you, ST, inasmuch as the crucial difference between Covid and seasonal flu is that there is a vaccine and effective treatments for the latter and not for the former.

Currently, it seems to me that most strategies – and indeed most thinking – are founded on the assumption that a vaccine is guaranteed to arrive. That worries me, because it plainly isn't (guaranteed, that is - obvs it might arrive). We seem unwilling to accept that science, well, might not come up with the magic bullet.

Following on from that, now even the most benign line of enquiry that asks "well, if it doesn't, what then?", and worries regarding the destruction being wrought on the economy, is generally met with "YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT LIVES, DO YOU?"

It's maddening, not to mention infantile. As if "lives" and "the economy" can be meaningfully separated anyway in terms of public policy. Marx himself would be mystified at the separation of the two, equally so that this separation is envisaged by the self-same people who frothed with righteous anger at 100s of thousands of deaths being caused by austerity. Austerity is pretty soon going to look like a wistfully-remembered Babylon compared to the Great Depression that's currently coming down the pipe.

I can feel myself just withdrawing from any dialogue, because I'm sick of being treated like some kind of swivel-eyed murderous loon for expressing reservations I consider to be perfectly reasonable.

I've avoided much of the debate too, even when sticking with the facts you are shot down in flames. I simply don't trust anything that comes out of the MSM, the headlines and numbers are so miss leading. Last year infants, young children and regular folks all died of the regular flu. Not a peep from the media. All of a sudden we are hearing about every death that's out with the normal age range and scaring the majority. Personally I'm no more scared of this COVID than I am of the regular flu.

Once this is all said and done, people will catch viruses left right and center after this quarrntine. We rely on being in contact with bacteria that our immune system builds up and fights against. Most people immune systems will be shot to shit.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

One of my good pals on this website life is in danger if he contracts it,his wife works in a nursing home.
That’s the difference from Flu.

 

[AG1337]

It's my fucking opinion for fuck sake, nothing insensitive at all.

Fair enough re your opinion.
Your comparison of Covid and flu mortality rates might not be that far off either.

The fact is though that we are currently bang in the middle of this epidemic with the virus, to some extent, killing indiscriminately.

Maybe your comment was just stating facts and was not as flippant as I initially interpreted it. If that is the case then I apologise.

That all said, I dong think anyone who has lost a loved one due to COVID will think about comparison with flu and it’s risks to health. That was the main reason why I thought your post was insensitive.

 

[AG1337]

Fair enough re your opinion.
Your comparison of Covid and flu mortality rates might not be that far off either.

The fact is though that we are currently bang in the middle of this epidemic with the virus, to some extent, killing indiscriminately.

Maybe your comment was just stating facts and was not as flippant as I initially interpreted it. If that is the case then I apologise.

That all said, I don’t think anyone who has lost a loved one due to COVID will think about comparison with flu and it’s risks to health. That was the main reason why I thought your post was insensitive.

Fair enough re your opinion.
Your comparison of Covid and flu mortality rates might not be that far off either.

The fact is though that we are currently bang in the middle of this epidemic with the virus, to some extent, killing indiscriminately.

Maybe your comment was just stating facts and was not as flippant as I initially interpreted it. If that is the case then I apologise.

That all said, I don’t think anyone who has lost a loved one due to COVID will think about comparison with flu and it’s risks to life. That was the main reason why I thought your post was insensitive.

 

[Greenmachine]

I don't know who's right and who's wrong in all this. I am not a scientist or a medical person. One thing I am sure of is that there are far too many people who seem to be hanging all their hopes of a vaccine suddenly being found and the whole population being vaccinated and everything will just turn out rosy. A vaccine may never be found. IMO we are eventually going to have to learn to live with this virus in the same way we live with every virus. I think far more likely is a treatment will be found soon which can prevent people getting so ill with this virus that it hospitalises them, and also that will prevent people dying from it. We simply cannot just keep everyone in lockdown or living their everyday lives in terror for the next year or so having to stand 2 metres away from any other human being outside their household. The economy urgently needs to get started again, and we cannot just sit back and watch the likes of the leisure industry, the licensed trade, hospitality, sport, and the tourism industry just collapse in front of our eyes with all the social and economic disaster that would entail. I stand by my opinion that social distancing is going to physically impossible for people to sustain in much of our society for any sustained period of time.

 

[HenryLB]

I don't know who's right and who's wrong in all this. I am not a scientist or a medical person. One thing I am sure of is that there are far too many people who seem to be hanging all their hopes of a vaccine suddenly being found and the whole population being vaccinated and everything will just turn out rosy. A vaccine may never be found. IMO we are eventually going to have to learn to live with this virus in the same way we live with every virus. I think far more likely is a treatment will be found soon which can prevent people getting so ill with this virus that it hospitalises them, and also that will prevent people dying from it. We simply cannot just keep everyone in lockdown or living their everyday lives in terror for the next year or so having to stand 2 metres away from any other human being outside their household. The economy urgently needs to get started again, and we cannot just sit back and watch the likes of the leisure industry, the licensed trade, hospitality, sport, and the tourism industry just collapse in front of our eyes with all the social and economic disaster that would entail. I stand by my opinion that social distancing is going to physically impossible for people to sustain in much of our society for any sustained period of time.

I think you're right. With the same proviso that I'm not any kind of expert. Ultimately I don't think you'll get 'societal consent' (which you need to continue a lockdown in a society like ours) to wreck the economy and impoverish people in order to protect what is, ultimately, a small proportion of the population.

I'm not saying that's right or moral or that I agree with it. But would any country really trash their economy to save 50000 people (say, on the outside) who were, by most actuarial standards, going to die within a few years anyway? To be honest I doubt it.

And to be clear I think that's a grotesque and terrible choice to have to make. But in a sense it's not being made, not by an individual anyway. It'll be decided on a societal level by what people are willing to put up with, and my instinct - seeing people round us already giving up on lockdown, really - is that they'll decide to go back to normality or some version of it and that will have its consequences.

 

[shankssaysno]

It's experts that have got us into this shit

 

[HenryLB]

It's experts that have got us into this shit

I agree. In order to succeed, what was needed was someone to tell the scientists they were wrong and take a bit of a cavalier risk. The idea that Labour, or indeed almost anyone, would have done this is... fanciful.

 

[SuperTortolano]

I agree. In order to succeed, what was needed was someone to tell the scientists they were wrong and take a bit of a cavalier risk. The idea that Labour, or indeed almost anyone, would have done this is... fanciful.

The biggest problem is the media. Anyone even slightly against the grain gets crucified. All that you see on the news are the numbers and negative stories on a daily basis. You could do the same thing with the regular flu and scare half the population by keeping a running ticker of the deaths and showing deaths of able and young people that have died from it.

 

[paigntonhibby]

I've said this before, it would be interesting to know how many have died with covid and how many because of it. They also seem to be putting most care home deaths as covid whether they've been tested or not.

 

[Jack]

I've said this before, it would be interesting to know how many have died with covid and how many because of it. They also seem to be putting most care home deaths as covid whether they've been tested or not.

Thing is the seasonal flu season has finished so anyone dying of flu like symptoms has probably got CV19. The doctors will also have access to the patients history.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

The "interesting" chart down the line will be the number passed away this year in comparison with the average of the last 5 years. It won't give details of those that have CV19 but also as a consequence.

Population of charts might give a decent indication for countries not quite up to the job of keeping detailed CV19 records but I can see the flaw there in that they might not be up to keeping decent population records!

 

[greencol]

The PDA that I use for work has a sat nav that uses Google maps. Most of the time it works fine but sometimes can be a couple of hundred yards out. Not much good for something that needs accuracy.

Especially is you live on a coast....

I'm with P&G on the reasoning for not using.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Thing is the seasonal flu season has finished so anyone dying of flu like symptoms has probably got CV19. The doctors will also have access to the patients history.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

The "interesting" chart down the line will be the number passed away this year in comparison with the average of the last 5 years. It won't give details of those that have CV19 but also as a consequence.

Population of charts might give a decent indication for countries not quite up to the job of keeping detailed CV19 records but I can see the flaw there in that they might not be up to keeping decent population records!

I agree with what you're saying Jack but you're missing my point. How many people would have died at that precise time anyway but just happened to test positive for covid. I also agree that the consequences of covid will be a factor in deaths of people who dont actually have it.

 

[broonieboy]

I don't know who's right and who's wrong in all this. I am not a scientist or a medical person. One thing I am sure of is that there are far too many people who seem to be hanging all their hopes of a vaccine suddenly being found and the whole population being vaccinated and everything will just turn out rosy. A vaccine may never be found. IMO we are eventually going to have to learn to live with this virus in the same way we live with every virus. I think far more likely is a treatment will be found soon which can prevent people getting so ill with this virus that it hospitalises them, and also that will prevent people dying from it. We simply cannot just keep everyone in lockdown or living their everyday lives in terror for the next year or so having to stand 2 metres away from any other human being outside their household. The economy urgently needs to get started again, and we cannot just sit back and watch the likes of the leisure industry, the licensed trade, hospitality, sport, and the tourism industry just collapse in front of our eyes with all the social and economic disaster that would entail. I stand by my opinion that social distancing is going to physically impossible for people to sustain in much of our society for any sustained period of time.

Absolutely this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PILTONSTANY]

Excess deaths is a good measurement,pretty horrendous really

 

[Jack]

I agree with what you're saying Jack but you're missing my point. How many people would have died at that precise time anyway but just happened to test positive for covid. I also agree that the consequences of covid will be a factor in deaths of people who dont actually have it.

That's the way they do it. They'll chuck down every contributing factor you might have died from.

Smoking is a great example of this. If you smoke that will be one of the reasons on the certificate even if you've been knocked down by a bus and squished. OK that's maybe a bit of an exaggeration but you get my drift.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

 

[Jack]

If I recall correctly that'll be £250m straight in the pocket of Boris & Co's pals for producing something unusable. They're becoming even more brazen than giving £13m to one of their pals for a fleet of ships that didn't exist during Brexit but I suppose at least the app actually exists!

 

[PILTONSTANY]

If I recall correctly that'll be £250m straight in the pocket of Boris & Co's pals for producing something unusable. They're becoming even more brazen than giving £13m to one of their pals for a fleet of ships that didn't exist during Brexit but I suppose at least the app actually exists!

Yip,If Putin did this it would be on the front pages.
They would’ve known it wasn’t going to work.

 

[Jack]

Yip,If Putin did this it would be on the front pages.
They would’ve known it wasn’t going to work.

I've no doubt the app works as intended.

It's how it works, just what is intended and how it was procured for me is the dubious things. It's just rotten to the core.

Incidentally the Putin regime did produce an app that worked in a similar way. It might not have produced headlines but it did draw a certain amount of concern from the civil rights movement and was reported by our MSM in a snooty, look down noses, isn't that awful sort of way.

 

[SlovSam]

View media item 339
There is your excess deaths to date compared against a 5 year death average courtesy of the Financial Times across a range of countries.

This isn't the seasonal flu governments are dealing with here and I am surprised anyone still argues that point.?

This is also the excess deaths within the lockdown restrictions so the computer model calculations of expected deaths outwith lockdown in a more open economy are going to be a whole lot more.?.

Tough choices are on the way especially as the only disease ever totally eradicated by vaccinne is Smallpox.?