Israel

i'd take my chances in Turkey before Israel without doubt and almost anywhere else in the region if I were arab or muslim. you rightly state its complex so reducing this to which country you'd prefer to live in if forced largely dispenses with that complexity.....
On what do you base that? Israeli Arabs have more freedom than anywhere in the Arab world, and can ascend to high office or anything else in an open society.

Turkey tbf seems by far and away the best place to be in the Islamic middle east, although not much fun if you are secularist (in which case its Israel all the way again).

Anywhere else ; are your serious dude? The Emirates a fine place to be if your are royalty, but that aside fuck that for a game of soldiers. As for the slaughterhouses and theocracies that comprise the rest....
 
So Israel are *&*^ because of their leadership. Are the people of Gaza also *&*^ because of theirs?

It's a mess. No easy answers...
It's their leadership that are cvnts. You really think I thought ordinary Israeli's are murdering Palestinians?
I dont think ordinary Palestinians are murdering Israelis either just tae be clear.
 
Miriam Adelmaan. Head of (APAIC)

Why did Trump receive from what appears to be $200,000,0000 from her?


Trump got bought off...Now we will live in luxury flats in Gaza!

Bet you'll not see a Palestinian though....
 
Israel getting a wee taste of their own medicine. Fuck em.
My condolences at this difficult time Findlay. The Israeli assassination of the likes of Hossein Salami whose stormtroopers, just the other year, massacred hundreds of young people for dissenting from the hijab must pain you.

Much as we both know he would launch you from a tall building and laugh about it, i realise these are all forgivable and peripheral things versus the man's good points; obliteration of freedom and the human spirit and sticking it to the heebs.
 
Listening to an Iranian guy on 5Live this morning, grew up and lived in Tehran (but now lives in London). He was talking quite matter-of-factly about how they are explicitly taught to hate Israel from an early age in school, and how it's well understood in Iran that Hamas are Iranian proxies, among other actual realities. Made me wonder how different opinions would be on here if we were actually genuinely threatened in a very real way by our geographical neighbours. Put it this way, even an Iranian guy could certainly see Israel's point.
 
Listening to an Iranian guy on 5Live this morning, grew up and lived in Tehran (but now lives in London). He was talking quite matter-of-factly about how they are explicitly taught to hate Israel from an early age in school, and how it's well understood in Iran that Hamas are Iranian proxies, among other actual realities. Made me wonder how different opinions would be on here if we were actually genuinely threatened in a very real way by our geographical neighbours. Put it this way, even an Iranian guy could certainly see Israel's point.
The Iranian revolutionary left - the residue of those murdered by isalmists after the revolution, have been at the forefront of highlighting the regime's nuclear weapons programme. Naturally they have been accused of working with Israel, which is very possibly the case and what you'd expect from a faction wanting to move Iran from theocratic rule.

I wonder how they feel about peers in the west preferring the mullahs who crushed Iranian socialism and butchered their comrades, who murder young girls because they have been raped, or young people who dont want women to walk around in bags?

As for education, same in Palestine unfortunately; hate drummed in from the get go. Douglas Murray claims some arithmetic text books even teach children by getting them to performs sums on numbers of Jewish corpses!
 
Listening to an Iranian guy on 5Live this morning, grew up and lived in Tehran (but now lives in London). He was talking quite matter-of-factly about how they are explicitly taught to hate Israel from an early age in school, and how it's well understood in Iran that Hamas are Iranian proxies, among other actual realities. Made me wonder how different opinions would be on here if we were actually genuinely threatened in a very real way by our geographical neighbours. Put it this way, even an Iranian guy could certainly see Israel's point.
Indeed. Iran doesn't at all recognise the right of Israel to exist it officially regards it as "Occupied Palestine". And as you say funds and arms its proxies to attack and kill in Israel.

Imagine here in Scotland we knew Ireland, Wales, England, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Germany & Sweden all despised us and wanted to kill us - to wipe us off the map completely. What would our mentality be knowing and feeling that hatred and threat and also furthermore with so many family and friends that have been directly affected by being attacked by these terrorist proxies how would we feel?

How would we feel if we knew Germany was looking to produce weaponry to take their proxy actors that stage further by developing nuclear capability to obliterate us off the map? Would we expect or demand that our government took pre-emptive action? Or would we feel relaxed about it?
 
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Indeed. Iran doesn't at all recognise the right of Israel to exist it officially regards it as "Occupied Palestine". And as you say funds and arms its proxies to attack and kill in Israel.

Imagine here in Scotland we knew Ireland, Wales, Scotland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Germany & Sweden all despised us and wanted to kill us - to wipe us off the map completely. What would our mentality be knowing and feeling that hatred and threat and also furthermore with so many family and friends that have been directly affected by being attacked by these terrorist proxies how would we feel?

How would we feel if we knew Germany was looking to produce weaponry to take their proxy actors that stage further by developing nuclear capability to obliterate us off the map? Would we expect or demand that our government took pre-emptive action? Or would we feel relaxed about it?
Tax the Jews
 
Israeli forces have killed more than 51 Palestinians and wounded many more after opening fire near an aid distribution site in southern Gaza, witnesses and rescuers say.

CVNTS
 
So they killed another 51 aid workers today.
They have unofficially declared war (War has a protocol) against Iran for Nuclear weapons weapons that Malkowski has been talking about since 1999(like he did with Iraq...Never found them!)
Nobody is allowed to know how many Nukes they have.
They have a Samson protocol(basically they have nukes pointed at everyone for if it goes wrong)
They are allowed to commit genocide.

At what point are we allowed to call it for what it is...without hurty words being thrown?


I recently found out too that all Nuclear weapons holder must keep there bombers outside...so we can see what they actually have,and where they are.
Israel obviously refuse that,and inspectors to check it out.


What a disgusting anti semitic apartheid state!

Dont let them fool you!
 
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And Trump demands an unconditional surrender from Iran.

Looks like Miriam Adelmaan(Head of APAIC)did good with her $200,000,000 donation to that Zionist traitor!
 
And Trump demands an unconditional surrender from Iran.

Looks like Miriam Adelmaan(Head of APAIC)did good with her $200,000,000 donation to that Zionist traitor!
Trump considering striking Iran aswell with Congress men and women up in arms that it's not his call.
 
Fuck me this is fascinating.... High stakes should Trump bomb Iran.

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Fuck me this is fascinating.... High stakes should Trump bomb Iran.

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Carlson has swung waaaay to the right, hosting Hitler apologists and the like. As such its no surprise to find him aligned to the anti zionist rhetoric of the day. Will watch this and see of this is where he coming from, or simple American isolationism.
 
You never answered the question, are Israel the good guys? And you have got the context of my original post wrong again.

Sadly it isn't a black & white situation, it's far more complex. Overall I think Israel are the good guys but their actions in Gaza are barbaric.
Oh, trust me , there are no good guys involved here.
It’s many axis of evil at play.
This shit goes on forever past our existence. Until somebody teaches the world that religion is a fuckin nonsense, then this will continue.
 
Miriam Adelmaan. Head of (APAIC)

Why did Trump receive from what appears to be $200,000,0000 from her?


Trump got bought off...Now we will live in luxury flats in Gaza!

Bet you'll not see a Palestinian though....
Cause Trumps a fuckin tit. And until a few months ago, you thought he was the dugs danglies.
 
Dearie me, we have so many well educated people, and so called expert's, in Middle East Affairs, including the The Middle East Envoy, Tony Blair.
Why do people listen to thier rubbish? 100 years from now, they'll still be arguing and the Politiacian's will be loving it.
 
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Fuck me this is fascinating.... High stakes should Trump bomb Iran.

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This is really interesting. I'm not trolling anybody when I say it is staggering to me how Bannon talks exactly like the left did for most of my life, until they merged with capitalism. And he talks exactly like the small rump of the hard left that partially holds out against that today. The only difference is a better grip on how systems actually work.

Military industrial complex, CIA schemers, big pharma and big this and that, warmongering neocons, wall street ...and he very clearly means it. A fascinating character I've posted on and off about for years.

What to make of it - fucks knows. The deep state stuff is on one hand credible. I think everybody now knows this is a factor to some degree (how far being the question). I mean any big org works like this and governments are the biggest organisations of all. But I also wonder if this has become such a battle that he starts to see wheels within wheels and spooks everywhere. I certainly suspect the Trump Administration genuinely believe they are at war with institutions trying to thwart democracy and it explains some of the things they do. I also think they are almost certainly right to a degree, but again to what degree is critical.

So all in all, a lot more nuanced than my preemptive strike on Carlson speculated. They are clearly trying to stop a war in the middle east. Thats all I can be sure of. Well that and Carlson is camp as a row of pink tents.
 
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Ps - worryingly for Europe they also clearly mean it on yet another traditional left wing position; no more American Imperialism. But its also clear that unlike left wing advocates of that they grasp the implications, ie it must mean the powers controlling their respective spheres and not operating in each other's back yard.

Which presents one of these awkward questions cakeists hate; do you really want peace, do you really want no more American Imperialism? Because it has corollaries.
 
Dearie me, we have so many well educated people, and so called expert's, in Middle East Affairs, including the The Middle East Envoy, Tony Blair.
Why do people listen to there rubbish? 100 years from now, they'll still be arguing and the Politiacian's will be loving it.
Dearie me,
It's spelled 'their' and 'politicians' to be pedantic and slightly educated:coffee1:
 
I felt quite ignorant TBH watching as I had naively assumed the MAGA lot would want Iranian nuclear capability wiped out. But it seems they genuinely see this as yet again the deep state getting some steer on the administration to destroy MAGA.. It seems these guys want to ruthlessly pursue the objectives of MAGA; Stop the forever wars, seal the border and deport the illegal alien invaders and bring well paid manufacturing jobs back to the US by redoing the commercial agreements throughout the world by revised trade agreements. Pretty crazy but after watching this i do feel the absolute objective of Trump is to genuinely force resolutions to these conflicts. I wasn't sure at the end whether Bannon believes some world war that we are already in will end with the US stronger or weaker.
 
I felt quite ignorant TBH watching as I had naively assumed the MAGA lot would want Iranian nuclear capability wiped out. But it seems they genuinely see this as yet again the deep state getting some steer on the administration to destroy MAGA.. It seems these guys want to ruthlessly pursue the objectives of MAGA; Stop the forever wars, seal the border and deport the illegal alien invaders and bring well paid manufacturing jobs back to the US by redoing the commercial agreements throughout the world by revised trade agreements. Pretty crazy but after watching this i do feel the absolute objective of Trump is to genuinely force resolutions to these conflicts. I wasn't sure at the end whether Bannon believes some world war that we are already in will end with the US stronger or weaker.
I dont know about MAGA - i mean im not sure its one thing. Bannon is saying that in effect; its a coalition that could split over this.

But him and his lot; they absolutely mean it K. Its about the American worker and no more wars and tearing down the vested interests that in his view run an Imperialist project for the benefit of the upper classes. I think he has described himself as a Leninist before.

Hes not a Marxist though - if you searched the site you'd find me talking about him as an actual fascist years ago, by which I don't mean racist - that's not what big F fascism is. I mean a corporatist (which also doesnt mean what people might assume from misused terms). I think he wants an america arranged around wealth creators taking care of the American worker and society, a much more 'socialist' arrangement than America has ever had, and america absolutely out of the business of meddling with the world. To be fair to him, some of these qualities- the absence of martial ambitions etc -disqualify him from being a fascist. I think he is a corporatist, which fascism included in their hodge podge make it up as you go along project. But then its also social democracy really.

He is making the point that what people perceive as power is not actual power. They have a hand full of placemen ostensibly in charge of institutions that are substantially integrated with the democrat party, but more than that, like turbo charged Sir Humphreys, 'tolerate' politicians of either side, while they go about running things as those administrations come and go.

I do believe Trump would like to see and end to wars and American 'Imperialism' but perhaps paradoxically im not sure Trump is actually Maga, not like Bannon is anyway. He is a typical CEO, listening to and balancing the inputs and interests of multiple stakeholders.

But you can see in this why Trump wants to emulate Obama and ignore Congress. Its not (just) because he wants to be king its because he believes they are working to vested interests not the interests of the American people. How much is paranoia and how much well founded? I really dont know. On top of that Trump is in it for the grift in addition to having real goals, not instead. But Bannon isnt, Vance isn't. These guys walked away in disgust from the money grubbing industries that made them rich and could have made them much much richer with a lot less hassle. In a way that makes them scarier, but also potentially agents of positive change. Again I really dont know. Its an actual radical project, which we haven't had since Thatcher, and its virtually the opposite of her.
 
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Interesting choice of words from the guardian. Not quite adding opposition to American Imperialism to the ever extending definition of 'far right' but not far from it.

"In a lengthy post on social media, JD Vance responded to concerns from longtime members of Donald Trump’s far-right Make America Great Again coalition about US involvement in foreign wars."
 
All your Genius's with Diegree's, looking for a job avoiding tactic, then a Phd., another work shy ploy, tell us how the world is changing. The so called experts in Middle East Affairs, can't find a solution. Tony Blair, Envoy, what a load of pish.
They all like to talk, not do. It keeps them in well paid jobs.
 
Cause Trumps a fuckin tit. And until a few months ago, you thought he was the dugs danglies.
In fairness...he tried to make charge first time out.

He apparently lost billions fighting impeachment and false claims in court...so abit skint for his standards.

So took the shekels.....
 
All your Genius's with Diegree's, looking for a job avoiding tactic, then a Phd., another work shy ploy, tell us how the world is changing. The so called experts in Middle East Affairs, can't find a solution. Tony Blair, Envoy, what a load of pish.
They all like to talk, not do. It keeps them in well paid jobs.
Tony Blair Middle East peace envoy.
Harold Shipman , president of help the aged .