Ukraine.
- Thread starter Davy
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2002
It might if the share transfer was subject to uk jurisdiction which I’m guessing it isn’t.
1 Mcnamara
Private Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2008
How many people do you know that work for the NHS? Go and ask them how real covid is.
In fact, just ask the nurse on your ward.
emerald green
Private Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2006
no, i think the vast majority o the bounce family would rather you stayed, and Ryan went.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2002
No you won't!!!Signing off now....probably won't be back.
Findlayhibby
Private Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
Now;if you suggested Ryan might be mad.As someone who has been there,you might have a point.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2002
I actually know people personally you fucking prick.
I'll tell you what. Are you based in Edinburgh? Next time I'm back, I'll message you. We'll discuss your views in person.
Jack K
Legendary Radge
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2020
You are either mad or gullible.
If it's the former get help because your mind is bent out of shape.
If it's the latter stop getting your information from non-credible sources and repeating it as fact.
My money is on gullible.
BVilleggiante
Well-Known Radge
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
Ban this prick.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
You just made that up. You dinnae have any friends, your posting on here with one hand and wanking with your other hand at the replies tae your stories.My best friends children live in Ukraine.
He wanted togo fight.
After a long discussion he admitted to me that his Children were not in danger.
He agreed the Russians are not killing people.
Putin said put your weapon down and go home.
The President is trying to create Chaos!
Alot of dodgy shit is going on in Ukraine.
Gangs have guns now....
Millions of military weapons in such a corrupt country.
People in Ukraine say killings,robbery and rape has gone crazy there.
It's not the Russians though!
There are no too end Russian Generals there!
They could flatten Ukraine in about 10 hours if they sent their top end gear.
Young soldier ..listening to orders!
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
Ryan - some questions:My best friends children live in Ukraine.
He wanted togo fight.
After a long discussion he admitted to me that his Children were not in danger.
He agreed the Russians are not killing people.
Putin said put your weapon down and go home.
The President is trying to create Chaos!
Alot of dodgy shit is going on in Ukraine.
Gangs have guns now....
Millions of military weapons in such a corrupt country.
People in Ukraine say killings,robbery and rape has gone crazy there.
It's not the Russians though!
There are no too end Russian Generals there!
They could flatten Ukraine in about 10 hours if they sent their top end gear.
Young soldier ..listening to orders!
- Do you believe that there is a war in Ukraine?
- If no, why do you think it is being reported as such?
- If yes, why do you think it happened and who is responsible?
paigntonhibby
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2012
You've fallen intae the trap of thinking he'll respond tae sensible questions
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
I don’t think Ryan will respond again.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2006
He won’t be able to
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
He's got COVID now.
Chucked
Off
Voiceless
In
Disgrace.
Chucked
Off
Voiceless
In
Disgrace.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2021
One of the things I like about this site is your ability to say pretty much what you want without wondering if you're going to offend someone. The same can't be said for .net where the admins are only too ready to pounce.
I'm in favour of calling people out if they're arseholes and ignoring is an option (although I've no idea how to do it) I suppose there comes a point though where relentless prickishness pisses off the majority.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2002
For even the most tolerant of folk it can sometimes be too much.
I think 69'r reached absolute zero.
The odd conspiracy theory is fine......necessary on occasion, but its every thread/ post with him.
I like an 'extract the urine' thread as much if not more than most on here , but he takes the fucking biscuit.
Unless of course he's having a laugh at everyone's expense and he has an IQ of astronomical proportions?
FTJT
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2005
Good analogy.
The old example for the limit on free speech was shouting fire in a crowded theatre - lying with the intent to cause harm. I think RT and ryan69 both meet that threshold, and comfortably so
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2006
Being a bit of a troll or being a bit of a fanny is fine. Being a constant troll to the point where numerous posters are raising concerns about posts and even considering walking away from the forum is a different story. Just my opinion.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2006
Not just yours Zab.
If being a bit of a fanny on the Bounce led to bans we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Indeed, I’d have been banned long ago…
southfieldhibby
Private Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2002
Not in favour of banning anything usually, and it’s pretty pointless in a voluntary website, but there’s got to be a point where decency wins and constant idiocy and antagonism is booted. Been reading inane stuff on the bounce for coming up 20 years and don’t think I’ve asked for anyone to be punted until this daftie.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2002
Aye that's it, nail on heed, we gave him every chance from the off, he left, never to post again he said, but he came back, his guff was laughable but we as administrators when it comes to it must protect the site and will do so.
We give everyone leway all the time but idiots like that must and will go.
Maybe time to bring back the total blocking feature.
emerald green
Private Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2006
Many bouncers over many threads tried to ask him honest questions. He never answered one. Not one. All slogans.
The bounce has a great history of patience when it comes to banning, but this guy took the biscuit.
Still keep banning Gunts wherever you find them tho. The manky perverts.
The bounce has a great history of patience when it comes to banning, but this guy took the biscuit.
Still keep banning Gunts wherever you find them tho. The manky perverts.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2002
We keep some as pets as you know C.
Rocky
Private Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2007
That one we've got the now is boring as fuck though, I'm assuming he's (and it will be a he) about 12 years old. Can we trade him in for a more entertaining yin?We keep some as pets as you know C.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2002
Very true. One needs to come along.....
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
This is a long article I wrote to offload random thoughts so I am not expecting anyone to read the article unless they have a deep interest in studying some background to the conflict.
I am not for banning either normally. But where someone shouts out insane nonsense which potentially could cause harm, unreasonable upset or drive hatred then it should be looked at and Ryan spouted a lot of stuff with zero intent to back his words up. This is the problem with the internet and I, as you know if you followed my early posts, fell for a lot of stuff. People print things with little ability to back their argument and copy pasting (which I do) can also be overused as it often gives one person point of view..i.e. whoever wrote the article or uploaded a video.
I would though like to look at some of his claims and also introduce some uncomfortable reports which at some point in the future be addressed by people in power,or for general chat. As Ryan threw a lot of statements around and cannot be here to defend them, I would like to look at a few of his claims, as I also find it dangerous to dismiss every allegation as we are in a society where everything is becoming black and white, but life is not like this. One main issue is that Ryan's post seems to be deleted so I can't look into much so will look at things brought up and some things I have observed online.
First can I say that the point he made that Russians are not killing civilians is one I am not even going to debate..they ARE, whether they mean to or not, but then if you fire cruise missiles into cities of course you will.
He spoke about Ukraine arming people who might use the guns to their own ends, end up in the hands of criminals etc., That there are militias and neo nazis etc.
Firstly I do think it is a bit concerning if they are handing out guns to just anyone. It sounds good in theory but eventually a lot of guns could easily end up in the hands of people who want to use them for other means and there has been a few reports of robberies. Imagine the guns getting into the hands of drug dealers, biker gangs etc..it all sounds a bit like mad Max but not out the question.
That said Ukraine is on it's knees and I can well understand why they want every able adult to fight back. I have also been sent photos from my friend in Ukraine showing looters/criminal being tied up against lamp posts etc. either to be shamed or until they can be taken into custody (I am not sure which) but the security forces have a very low tolerance of any kind of criminality at this time.
I watched a video on one of the militias in the Donbas region. I am not going to put links as it is up to you if you want to search these videos and judge for yourself. That one was called Out of Control: Ukraine's Rogue Militias
I watched it, I did not get the sense that the militia was out of control. They appeared to have a set agenda and that was to fight Russian backed rebels in their backyard. There was suggestions that if the conflict stopped, would they give up their arms or get involved in other activities. That was suggested but there was no evidence to say they would do this. I would caution that being part of a militia has become their way of life and having killed they would probably find transition to a peaceful world difficult. I wondered why they did not just join the army but it became clear they were not in this for money and that they prefer not to be mired in red tape or have to have the whole army lifestyle of being cooked up in barracks and taking orders they don't agree with. They see the Russian separatists not paying attention to human rights so why should they? They say as it is their country they should be free to defend it, rather like the American constitution of defending their country.
Wider questions perhaps could be looked at such as what started the conflicts in the Donbas and Crimean regions. I don't know too much about that but imagine there are many people who want to part of Russia in the same way people in Ireland, Scotland or Catalonia want something different. Of course in the case of Ireland they did fight and there was support from some and disgust from others. The UK government whilst not covering themselves in glory did not send tanks into Eire to flatten the landscape as the Russians appear to be doing. That the conflict has moved from these regions to the cities of Ukraine, the blame tome lies squarely at Moscow's door.
Neo Nazis. I don't know if the various militia with very dodgy insignias are neo nazis, but they certainly appear to be quite right wing. To say there is no racism in Ukraine would seem to be proved wrong as reports are coming out of Ukraine of black African students, male and female, being denied access to trains and beaten with sticks if they protest. I would hope this is a tiny minority of Ukrainian soldiers but is concerning. As to the militias, they have marched through Kiev and do look the part, however again most of these militias were heading for the Donbas region to fight Russians, not blacks or Jews. But it would be folly to say there is not far right groups in the country. There are far right groups everywhere and Russia has more than it's fair share. Ukraine are at war and right now are unlikely to be fussy about who volunteers to fight. Hopefully should they come out the other end of this war they will show tolerance to minorities and the fact there mixed races in the universities is a good sign.
But the other question is, Would this be a genuine reason for Russia to start a war? Here is where it gets grey again. If these Neo Nazi groups are indeed operating in the Donbas region or Crimea then in the eyes of the Russians they see these uniformed far right volunteers of various militia as representative or Ukraine. Or at least the propaganda machine will say this. It is not a good look though. But labelling a group as Neo Nazis does not make them so, rather many are there simply to fight for their country. I looked at a video that claims the militia are neo nazis, but all the militia said was they had no faith in their government to stand up to Russia and are training for war with Russia. Seems they had a point
Russia were claiming that Ukrainians killed over 14,000 Russian speakers in the east and this is their claim for genocide. The 14,000 is based on deaths on both sides, there is a documentary movie which shows snipers in the region and plenty deaths on both sides. The Ukrainian government do not want to give up their territory as they say it will be the start of a land grab. However I do wonder if it if it would have been prudent to give over some regions and redraw lines. This might have left Ukraine in a better place to join NATO, as the main opposition to NATO allowing them in as that there was an existing conflict with Russia.
Russia as seen in Chechnya showed they will raze cities to the ground if they out up resistance. This is the worry for Ukraine now and it shows that Russia will overstep any rules of engagement to further their own cause.
My brother sent me an interesting theory as to why Russia want control of Eastern Ukraine. Here is the short video
I don't know if this is the whole story but having looked elsewhere online it appears Russia have a few days ago destroyed the dam.
Russian troops destroy Ukrainian dam that blocked water to Crimea - RIA
So there does appear to be some dirty tactics on both sides. This is not something I have seen discussed anywhere on TV.
Ryan also stated that the politicians are corrupt including President Zalensky.
Zalensky got into power stating he would tackle corruption. There have been allegations, some of which Big G has already covered and it is not hard to google anyway. I am not sure why anyone is surprised that people in government are accused or indeed embroiled in corruption. There is a
thread on the bounce about Tory corruption and the fact there are 118 billionaires in Russia lead me to conclude that there has been a lot of dodgy dealings going on, but then again as I cannot prove that then I won't say it. But nepotism is rife the world over, Is that enough to start a war for, or indeed not help out a president for whist his country is being blown to kingdom come! And thousands of civilians dying? Whether he is corrupt or not, he is standing his ground with his people and putting his life on the line and not flying off with millions to a cosy house in the Bahamas or wherever and for that he deserves a lot of credit. Unless of course you think he would be better letting Russia walk in and take over to save lives? Clearly the fact so many Ukrainians are facing the enemy whilst millions flee the country tell me they don't want Russian rule, nor to be controlled by Russia.
Anyway this is just some rambled thoughts and people can look into things for themselves. My conclusions so far is that Russia should never have annexed anywhere, but perhaps Ukraine could have let these regions vote to stay or leave.
Ukraine should not have built a dam as punishing people for other nations actions is never a good thing.
Russia had no good argument to enter Ukraine and attack cities and so I support the opposition to this. I don't blame anyone for fleeing though either.
I am not for banning either normally. But where someone shouts out insane nonsense which potentially could cause harm, unreasonable upset or drive hatred then it should be looked at and Ryan spouted a lot of stuff with zero intent to back his words up. This is the problem with the internet and I, as you know if you followed my early posts, fell for a lot of stuff. People print things with little ability to back their argument and copy pasting (which I do) can also be overused as it often gives one person point of view..i.e. whoever wrote the article or uploaded a video.
I would though like to look at some of his claims and also introduce some uncomfortable reports which at some point in the future be addressed by people in power,or for general chat. As Ryan threw a lot of statements around and cannot be here to defend them, I would like to look at a few of his claims, as I also find it dangerous to dismiss every allegation as we are in a society where everything is becoming black and white, but life is not like this. One main issue is that Ryan's post seems to be deleted so I can't look into much so will look at things brought up and some things I have observed online.
First can I say that the point he made that Russians are not killing civilians is one I am not even going to debate..they ARE, whether they mean to or not, but then if you fire cruise missiles into cities of course you will.
He spoke about Ukraine arming people who might use the guns to their own ends, end up in the hands of criminals etc., That there are militias and neo nazis etc.
Firstly I do think it is a bit concerning if they are handing out guns to just anyone. It sounds good in theory but eventually a lot of guns could easily end up in the hands of people who want to use them for other means and there has been a few reports of robberies. Imagine the guns getting into the hands of drug dealers, biker gangs etc..it all sounds a bit like mad Max but not out the question.
That said Ukraine is on it's knees and I can well understand why they want every able adult to fight back. I have also been sent photos from my friend in Ukraine showing looters/criminal being tied up against lamp posts etc. either to be shamed or until they can be taken into custody (I am not sure which) but the security forces have a very low tolerance of any kind of criminality at this time.
I watched a video on one of the militias in the Donbas region. I am not going to put links as it is up to you if you want to search these videos and judge for yourself. That one was called Out of Control: Ukraine's Rogue Militias
I watched it, I did not get the sense that the militia was out of control. They appeared to have a set agenda and that was to fight Russian backed rebels in their backyard. There was suggestions that if the conflict stopped, would they give up their arms or get involved in other activities. That was suggested but there was no evidence to say they would do this. I would caution that being part of a militia has become their way of life and having killed they would probably find transition to a peaceful world difficult. I wondered why they did not just join the army but it became clear they were not in this for money and that they prefer not to be mired in red tape or have to have the whole army lifestyle of being cooked up in barracks and taking orders they don't agree with. They see the Russian separatists not paying attention to human rights so why should they? They say as it is their country they should be free to defend it, rather like the American constitution of defending their country.
Wider questions perhaps could be looked at such as what started the conflicts in the Donbas and Crimean regions. I don't know too much about that but imagine there are many people who want to part of Russia in the same way people in Ireland, Scotland or Catalonia want something different. Of course in the case of Ireland they did fight and there was support from some and disgust from others. The UK government whilst not covering themselves in glory did not send tanks into Eire to flatten the landscape as the Russians appear to be doing. That the conflict has moved from these regions to the cities of Ukraine, the blame tome lies squarely at Moscow's door.
Neo Nazis. I don't know if the various militia with very dodgy insignias are neo nazis, but they certainly appear to be quite right wing. To say there is no racism in Ukraine would seem to be proved wrong as reports are coming out of Ukraine of black African students, male and female, being denied access to trains and beaten with sticks if they protest. I would hope this is a tiny minority of Ukrainian soldiers but is concerning. As to the militias, they have marched through Kiev and do look the part, however again most of these militias were heading for the Donbas region to fight Russians, not blacks or Jews. But it would be folly to say there is not far right groups in the country. There are far right groups everywhere and Russia has more than it's fair share. Ukraine are at war and right now are unlikely to be fussy about who volunteers to fight. Hopefully should they come out the other end of this war they will show tolerance to minorities and the fact there mixed races in the universities is a good sign.
But the other question is, Would this be a genuine reason for Russia to start a war? Here is where it gets grey again. If these Neo Nazi groups are indeed operating in the Donbas region or Crimea then in the eyes of the Russians they see these uniformed far right volunteers of various militia as representative or Ukraine. Or at least the propaganda machine will say this. It is not a good look though. But labelling a group as Neo Nazis does not make them so, rather many are there simply to fight for their country. I looked at a video that claims the militia are neo nazis, but all the militia said was they had no faith in their government to stand up to Russia and are training for war with Russia. Seems they had a point
Russia were claiming that Ukrainians killed over 14,000 Russian speakers in the east and this is their claim for genocide. The 14,000 is based on deaths on both sides, there is a documentary movie which shows snipers in the region and plenty deaths on both sides. The Ukrainian government do not want to give up their territory as they say it will be the start of a land grab. However I do wonder if it if it would have been prudent to give over some regions and redraw lines. This might have left Ukraine in a better place to join NATO, as the main opposition to NATO allowing them in as that there was an existing conflict with Russia.
Russia as seen in Chechnya showed they will raze cities to the ground if they out up resistance. This is the worry for Ukraine now and it shows that Russia will overstep any rules of engagement to further their own cause.
My brother sent me an interesting theory as to why Russia want control of Eastern Ukraine. Here is the short video
I don't know if this is the whole story but having looked elsewhere online it appears Russia have a few days ago destroyed the dam.
Russian troops destroy Ukrainian dam that blocked water to Crimea - RIA
So there does appear to be some dirty tactics on both sides. This is not something I have seen discussed anywhere on TV.
Ryan also stated that the politicians are corrupt including President Zalensky.
Zalensky got into power stating he would tackle corruption. There have been allegations, some of which Big G has already covered and it is not hard to google anyway. I am not sure why anyone is surprised that people in government are accused or indeed embroiled in corruption. There is a
thread on the bounce about Tory corruption and the fact there are 118 billionaires in Russia lead me to conclude that there has been a lot of dodgy dealings going on, but then again as I cannot prove that then I won't say it. But nepotism is rife the world over, Is that enough to start a war for, or indeed not help out a president for whist his country is being blown to kingdom come! And thousands of civilians dying? Whether he is corrupt or not, he is standing his ground with his people and putting his life on the line and not flying off with millions to a cosy house in the Bahamas or wherever and for that he deserves a lot of credit. Unless of course you think he would be better letting Russia walk in and take over to save lives? Clearly the fact so many Ukrainians are facing the enemy whilst millions flee the country tell me they don't want Russian rule, nor to be controlled by Russia.
Anyway this is just some rambled thoughts and people can look into things for themselves. My conclusions so far is that Russia should never have annexed anywhere, but perhaps Ukraine could have let these regions vote to stay or leave.
Ukraine should not have built a dam as punishing people for other nations actions is never a good thing.
Russia had no good argument to enter Ukraine and attack cities and so I support the opposition to this. I don't blame anyone for fleeing though either.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
crazy how man's quest for more leads to so much less
www.thedailybeast.com
The Aral Sea's Disappearing Act
Satellite photos show how the depredations of dictators have turned the world’s fourth largest inland sea into a poisonous desert.
Findlayhibby
Private Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
Anyhoo,didn't read the last post,sorry Davy,might go back to it. As I said elsewhere,might be on the 'push the button' post,that I would let folk know about the Stop the War demo.It's on Sunday, at 3o'clock and it stretches between Castle St and East End of Princes St. Standing with a placard is not my idea of a demo,but then I'm not organising the thing. I'm going because I'm too old and decrepit to go to the front,I dinnae speak Ukrainian and my camouflage gear is the wrong pattern,and I've never shot more than a BB gun at metal ducks. I'll give to Dnipro and I'm going to this,at least it will make me feal better,might do you?
Findlayhibby
Private Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2007
Read it now,many interesting points.Didn't watch the video.Think I said early on there 'are' Neo Nazi elements ,but the vast majority of the Ukranians look like ordinary people wanting a better life like the rest of us.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
Smoker in Loanhead Miners Club, no sure who the speakers are but it’ll be warm…with beer, might have a few rums but I’ll boycott the vodka, Fuck The Russkies!
Inverurie Loco
New radge
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2021
Hiya, village idiot here. Kudos to HMFC for donating all proceeds from program sales last night against the Dons to the Stevenson/ Hanlon Dnipro charity fund.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
Kudos indeed,Hiya, village idiot here. Kudos to HMFC for donating all proceeds from program sales last night against the Dons to the Stevenson/ Hanlon Dnipro charity fund.
, probs the only post you’ll get right on here.- Joined
- Sep 15, 2003
makes a change your mob putting money into a charity boxHiya, village idiot here. Kudos to HMFC for donating all proceeds from program sales last night against the Dons to the Stevenson/ Hanlon Dnipro charity fund.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
Drink Ukranian vodka. Some are as expensive as elsewhere but in their airports there is a decent one for about £3 cant remember the name and wont be going through their airports for a while, but shop around,..they love their vodka too. Their beers are as good as German too