Ukraine.

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Davy

Davy

get off yer bum an sing radge
Private Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Not looking good, America pulling its staff out. Was intending to visit a friend there this year. Another crazy example of people being forced to fight against a population who have a lot in common and mutual language (half the country) All in the name of someone's ego and fear
 
How predictable was all this ?....it's been clear for a long time that Russia would very likely invade Ukraine.
Putin long term wants land and countries back and the return of the old soviet union.
Taking advantage of a weak president in the US.
It won't stop with Ukraine either.
IMO Russia and China a huge threat to world stability in the next few years.
 
Greenmachine said:
How predictable was all this ?....it's been clear for a long time that Russia would very likely invade Ukraine.
Putin long term wants land and countries back and the return of the old soviet union.
Taking advantage of a weak president in the US.
It won't stop with Ukraine either.
IMO Russia and China a huge threat to world stability in the next few years.
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Yep, if he gets away with this he'll be wanting tae go back intae the baltic countries tae " liberate" the large ethnic Russian populations there
 
Greenmachine said:
How predictable was all this ?....it's been clear for a long time that Russia would very likely invade Ukraine.
Putin long term wants land and countries back and the return of the old soviet union.
Taking advantage of a weak president in the US.
It won't stop with Ukraine either.
IMO Russia and China a huge threat to world stability in the next few years.
Click to expand...
What makes you think Biden is weak?
 
Nato sending reinforcements into Eastern Europe aswell, hopefully things can be sorted out before alot of lives are lost.
 
Hammi said:
What I thinks quite depressing, is every article I've seen about it is talking about how any conflict or invasion would impact on European fuel and gas prices...

Not so much about what would actually be happening in Ukraine 😐

Money really is all anyone gives a toss about eh.
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If we have left ourselves in a position where we rely solely on our oil and gas being supplied from here, then our leaders are more inept than even I imagined. Politicians in power, are truly useless. And for once, I’m not just blaming the Tory ones.
 
Keep hearing the media narrative about 100,000 Russian soldiers on the border. What about what the West is doing on the borders of Russia??!! The west made promises to Russia and it is in breach of them. Napoleon & Hitler invaded Russia. They feel threatened by us because of our military incursions all around them. Not saying Russia is totally innocent but we are not half getting hit with some propaganda....
 
Smurf said:
Keep hearing the media narrative about 100,000 Russian soldiers on the border. What about what the West is doing on the borders of Russia??!! The west made promises to Russia and it is in breach of them. Napoleon & Hitler invaded Russia. They feel threatened by us because of our military incursions all around them. Not saying Russia is totally innocent but we are not half getting hit with some propaganda....
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Spot on.
 
bigmanandy said:
Nato sending reinforcements into Eastern Europe aswell, hopefully things can be sorted out before alot of lives are lost.
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Aye, including ours. NATO going toe to toe with Russia and/or China will result in WW3
 
Smurf said:
Keep hearing the media narrative about 100,000 Russian soldiers on the border. What about what the West is doing on the borders of Russia??!! The west made promises to Russia and it is in breach of them. Napoleon & Hitler invaded Russia. They feel threatened by us because of our military incursions all around them. Not saying Russia is totally innocent but we are not half getting hit with some propaganda....
Click to expand...

It’s Cold War stuff. Neither side really wants (or can afford) a war, but neither side can be seen to back down. Only difference is it’ll be somewhere in eastern Ukraine that’s split down the middle rather than Berlin.

Certainly that’s how it’ll be spun and portrayed in the western media, in the Russian it’s been quite categorically stated that their government isn’t on a war footing (according the the Russian journalist who writes for the Economist, I’ve forgotten his name).
 
The same old 'these are the good guys' these' are the bad guys' ignores the fact that a good deal of the Ukrainians in power are fully fledged Neo Nazis.As far as I'm concerned I'm sticking with 'Neither Washington,nor Moscow but International Socialism'.
 
moathibby said:
The same old 'these are the good guys' these' are the bad guys' ignores the fact that a good deal of the Ukrainians in power are fully fledged Neo Nazis.As far as I'm concerned I'm sticking with 'Neither Washington,nor Moscow but International Socialism'.
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let us know how that works out for you.
 
moathibby said:
the fact that a good deal of the Ukrainians in power are fully fledged Neo Nazis.
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How do you figure that? There wasn’t a single far right politician elected to the Ukrainian parliament in the 2019 election, and the majority party’s ideology is somewhere between a liberal and socialist viewpoint.
 
Zab said:
How do you figure that? There wasn’t a single far right politician elected to the Ukrainian parliament in the 2019 election, and the majority party’s ideology is somewhere between a liberal and socialist viewpoint.
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dinnae let facts get in the way o a good spraff :)
 
Zab said:
How do you figure that? There wasn’t a single far right politician elected to the Ukrainian parliament in the 2019 election, and the majority party’s ideology is somewhere between a liberal and socialist viewpoint.
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The 'between Liberal and Socialist,' is quote by the Leader of the ruling Servant of The People Party, named after a popular TV series.
In my opinion it is neither Liberal nor Socialist by any stretch of the imagination.
For anyone interested in a balanced analysis of what is really going on and why, far from MSM garbage about imminent invasion.

www.socialist.net

Will Russia invade Ukraine? | The Communist

Tensions are rising between Russia and Ukraine, with western politicians and journalists warning of the threat of invasion. Putin’s jingoism has highlighted the weakness of US imperialism – and the inherent instability of world relations.
www.socialist.net www.socialist.net

BIG G
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
The 'between Liberal and Socialist,' is quote by the Leader of the ruling Servant of The People Party, named after a popular TV series.
In my opinion it is neither Liberal nor Socialist by any stretch of the imagination.
For anyone interested in a balanced analysis of what is really going on and why, far from MSM garbage about imminent invasion.

www.socialist.net

Will Russia invade Ukraine? | The Communist

Tensions are rising between Russia and Ukraine, with western politicians and journalists warning of the threat of invasion. Putin’s jingoism has highlighted the weakness of US imperialism – and the inherent instability of world relations.
www.socialist.net www.socialist.net

BIG G
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Some name for a party that right enough! I’ve no doubt they aren’t really what they claim to be, most parties aren’t when they get in to power… However they are certainly not far right neo nazis either, as was suggested.

The imminent invasion stuff is indeed nonsense, click bait stuff from the media.
 
Better be over by the summer I wanna get back over there for sunshine and cheap beer :wolfie:
 
Zab said:
Some name for a party that right enough! I’ve no doubt they aren’t really what they claim to be, most parties aren’t when they get in to power… However they are certainly not far right neo nazis either, as was suggested.

The imminent invasion stuff is indeed nonsense, click bait stuff from the media.
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I'm not blaming the media for this. It's being deliberately ramped up by the US and UK. FWIW I think it's a perfectly reasonable demand of the Russians that Ukraine isn't to become a member of NATO. Just in the same way in the early 1960's it was perfectly reasonable that the US objected to any nuclear missiles I Cuba.
 
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Smurf said:
I'm not blaming the media for this. It's being deliberately ramped up by the US and UK. FWIW I think it's a perfectly reasonable demand of the Russians that Ukraine isn't to become a member of NATO. Just in the same way in the early 1960's it was perfectly reasonable that the US objected to any nuclear missiles I Cuba.
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I think the existence of NATO as an organisation is at the heart of the problem, it was devised during a different time and seems to tie the world to that era rather than allow us to move on. It probably should be disbanded, and perhaps something new which is more relevant to todays’ challenges… and has Russia and China at the table.

What I’ve said above probably won’t happen so we’re stuck with the situation we have now. I can see your point about Russia, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to be concerned about NATO being at their border. However Ukraine is it’s own country and should be free to make whatever decision it wants in terms of protecting their own border. The fairest way would be to agree a demilitarised zone either side of the border, but that would make life difficult for the purple living there (not that anyone in power really cares about them).
 
The bumbling womble thinking he is able to help anything in this would be comical if it wasnt so serious
 
Zab said:
I think the existence of NATO as an organisation is at the heart of the problem, it was devised during a different time and seems to tie the world to that era rather than allow us to move on. It probably should be disbanded, and perhaps something new which is more relevant to todays’ challenges… and has Russia and China at the table.

What I’ve said above probably won’t happen so we’re stuck with the situation we have now. I can see your point about Russia, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to be concerned about NATO being at their border. However Ukraine is it’s own country and should be free to make whatever decision it wants in terms of protecting their own border. The fairest way would be to agree a demilitarised zone either side of the border, but that would make life difficult for the purple living there (not that anyone in power really cares about them).
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Why should Ukraine trudt Russia..Crimea speaks for itself Nato maybe not be perfect but is a deterrent to Russia rebuilding its territory. Poland enjoy protection, why not Ukraine. Yes they can come to agreement of what is acceptable to have in terms of missiles close to the border but Russia itself is grabbing land near the north Pole and moving its capabilities around as a deterrent to USA.

Would be great if everyone could just live in peace but sadly it wont happen without armies. This constant criticism of the west by people in the west is right I Putin's street. He, along with the Belarussian dictator and Azerbajan are determined to rule by force and ignore democratic opinion. Cant understand why people here are so supportive of them.

As for Ukranians, they dint hate Russian people but they have no desire to move back to Russian rule and should be supported to make their own future.
 
Self-determination is an important principle. It matters in Scotland, it matters in Catalonia, it matters in the Falklands and it matters in Ukraine.

There was no real talk of Ukraine joining NATO before Russia started annexing chunks of it. There were no Western troops gathering in Eastern Europe before Russia went on manoeuvres. Suggesting this is a product of Western aggression is just deranged imo. There's plenty of that to criticise elsewhere.

Putin has no interest in democracy or consensus or reputation or legacy. He has no interest in using international forums as anything other than an opportunity to bind over his rivals and paint them as hypocrites for breaching rules he's never obeyed even remotely. He's only ever going to back down if he risks losing face on his terms, not on anyone else's. If he means to move on Kyiv - and there's every indication he does, or at least did - only the credible threat of a military defeat is going to stop him. And from there it'll be Moldova watching tanks roll in from Transnistria. And then Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, all NATO members, facing demands to demilitarise in the sake of Russian security. And then, well, those countries have ethnic Russian minorities that need protecting.
 
Davy said:
Why should Ukraine trudt Russia..Crimea speaks for itself Nato maybe not be perfect but is a deterrent to Russia rebuilding its territory. Poland enjoy protection, why not Ukraine. Yes they can come to agreement of what is acceptable to have in terms of missiles close to the border but Russia itself is grabbing land near the north Pole and moving its capabilities around as a deterrent to USA.

Would be great if everyone could just live in peace but sadly it wont happen without armies. This constant criticism of the west by people in the west is right I Putin's street. He, along with the Belarussian dictator and Azerbajan are determined to rule by force and ignore democratic opinion. Cant understand why people here are so supportive of them.

As for Ukranians, they dint hate Russian people but they have no desire to move back to Russian rule and should be supported to make their own future.
Click to expand...

As I said, a demilitarised zone would solve a lot of the problems.
 
Zab said:
As I said, a demilitarised zone would solve a lot of the problems.
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I agree with that whilst standing firm with Ukraine in defending their rights.
 
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The idea that Nato had no incursions in that area until Putin moved is laughable.The report the BBC made of what went on in the area during the 30's and 40's is also well skewered.Both Stalin and Hitler are responsible for the mess that is now the Ukraine.
 
The problem that noone is looking at is Gas supplies from Russia and whether or not we can seriously go to war with a country that has a lot to do with our cost of living crises.
 
You've also got to look at EU expansionism and it's sphere of influence.The EU as an economic entity is expanding into areas that were formally either USSR or Eastern Block,you've also got the question of whether Russia is going to ally with China,or stay on reasonable terms with us.Russian money is keeping Boris afloat.
 
moathibby said:
You've also got to look at EU expansionism and it's sphere of influence.The EU as an economic entity is expanding into areas that were formally either USSR or Eastern Block,you've also got the question of whether Russia is going to ally with China,or stay on reasonable terms with us.Russian money is keeping Boris afloat.
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Shite can float on its own though and be very difficult to flush …
 
moathibby said:
You've also got to look at EU expansionism and it's sphere of influence.The EU as an economic entity is expanding into areas that were formally either USSR or Eastern Block,you've also got the question of whether Russia is going to ally with China,or stay on reasonable terms with us.Russian money is keeping Boris afloat.
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I don't think you could get a starker contrast between people's self determination and their countries freely joining the EU and 100,000 troops on the border ready to annexe Ukraine!

I'm surprised you don't see parallels between the potential plight of the Ukrainians and the actual plight of the Palestinians.
 
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