Ukraine.

[Greenmachine]

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has been inevitable for many months.
All the tough talk from the west has been not surprisingly futile...as is the threat of sanctions which never work against aggressors and dictators.
The world is just emerging from a global pandemic. We now have an equally if not far greater threat to the world with this appalling act of aggression against an independent European state.

 

[Hammi]

 

[Bofahibee]

This s utterly horribly news. Is there anything the orphanage needs that we can do?

 

[1875]

This s utterly horribly news. Is there anything the orphanage needs that we can do?

I have spoken to Stevie, we will be looking at raising funds. Still awaiting information on the ground as like much of Ukrania, Dniproptrovsk is under attack. The charity have staff and have friends on the ground there.

 

[joethehibby]

The real worry in all of this is that bungling boris is the prime minister

 

[Bofahibee]

I have spoken to Stevie, we will be looking at raising funds. Still awaiting information on the ground as like much of Ukrania, Dniproptrovsk is under attack. The charity have staff and have friends on the ground there.

OK. Cool. Maybe start a new thread and if there's a paypal address post it again and I can share. Folk at work offering to donate too

 

[StevieC]

OK. Cool. Maybe start a new thread and if there's a paypal address post it again and I can share. Folk at work offering to donate too

If you look on the main board for the last Dnipro Kids update, and click on the link to read it, there are links to our Just Giving page.

As Mark says, things are moving so fast today that it’s hard to comprehend what our next steps will be. Missiles have targeted cities all across Ukraine, and civilian buildings have been hit and ordinary Ukrainian people killed.

Dnipro Kids have helpers in Dnipro, and our priority is ensuring they are safe. We also have numerous orphanages, and we will have to assess what their needs might be in the coming days/weeks. Those that have served on the committee also have many friends in Dnipro, and it is a worrying time as we wait to hear from them and make sure they too are safe in the coming days/weeks.

Lots of people are deciding to evacuate the big cities that are likely to come under attack (Kviv, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Odessa, etc) and whilst many may have places to go, there are many that will be fleeing into the unknown.

Due to the UKs restrictive access for Ukrainian citizens, we can’t even organise a safe haven for helpers and friends in this country.

 

[Beagle]

The real worry in all of this is that bungling boris is the prime minister

Nah. The real worry for the rest of the world is the imposition of very hard hitting sanctions. Yes, it will have the desired economic effect on Russia in due course but it’s also likely to enrage Putin like a cornered rat at which point he just might decide, ’fuck it’.

 

[jetsam1]

Nah. The real worry for the rest of the world is the imposition of very hard hitting sanctions. Yes, it will have the desired economic effect on Russia in due course but it’s also likely to enrage Putin like a cornered rat at which point he just might decide, ’fuck it’.

........ or his inner circle decide "fuck it". Hurt the top line........

All this is in the next country to me. Real stuff.

 

[joethehibby]

Nah. The real worry for the rest of the world is the imposition of very hard hitting sanctions. Yes, it will have the desired economic effect on Russia in due course but it’s also likely to enrage Putin like a cornered rat at which point he just might decide, ’fuck it’.

Is it really backed into a corner though , all he needs to do is wind his neck in and stop being an agressor

 

[hibbybilly]

Putin disnae give a fuck because he kens naebody will go against him. I dinnae ken what the sanctions are that are in place but it’s no bothering him.

 

[joethehibby]

Putin disnae give a fuck because he kens naebody will go against him. I dinnae ken what the sanctions are that are in place but it’s no bothering him.

It will bother his oligarth neebers

 

[paigntonhibby]

The problem is he's unbalanced, there's nae reasoning wi' him.
Widnae surprise me if some o' his generals tried tae remove him.

 

[Two Headed Boy]

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A useful, and somewhat reassuring, point of view from a journo on the ground in Kiev.

 

[Beagle]

The problem is he's unbalanced, there's nae reasoning wi' him.
Widnae surprise me if some o' his generals tried tae remove him.

I think it’s the generals we should be most concerned about. Putin is cracking on because he’s under threat from his generals if he didn’t go for the strong arm option. He hasn’t just decided off his own bat to start a war. He’d rather be a tsar leading his military than a tsar being executed by them.

 

[paigntonhibby]

I think it’s the generals we should be most concerned about. Putin is cracking on because he’s under threat from his generals if he didn’t go for the strong arm option. He hasn’t just decided off his own bat to start a war. He’d rather be a tsar leading his military than a tsar being executed by them.

Possibly, but if that's the case everybody's fucked, cannae let him get away with his aggression.
What I dinnae understand is he says he disnae want NATO on Russian border.
Well I could be wrong but if Russia assimilates Ukraine NATO will be even closer.

 

[Beagle]

Is it really backed into a corner though , all he needs to do is wind his neck in and stop being an agressor

I think a few western leaders have maybe suggest that to him already.
The nazis convinced the German population that they were put upon, sneered at and made to feel third class citizens in Europe. Backed into a corner financially and socially in much the same way as will happen with the Russians. They’ll be given a choice to either stand up to the west or be trampled upon.

 

[Beagle]

Possibly, but if that's the case everybody's fucked, cannae let him get away with his aggression.
What I dinnae understand is he says he disnae want NATO on Russian border.
Well I could be wrong but if Russia assimilates Ukraine NATO will be even closer.

Ukraine will be a Russian buffer zone militarily but as a country it has extremely wealthy natural resources still to be exploited

 

[joethehibby]

Ukraine will be a Russian buffer zone militarily but as a country it has extremely wealthy natural resources still to be exploited

Who will the russians sell these resources to

 

[bigmanandy]

Ukraine will fall within a couple days at this rate, then we will have Russians on the border at Poland, will get interesting if missiles go over the border into Poland, what's Russias end game, will a madman just stop at Ukraine..

 

[Beagle]

Who will the russians sell these resources to

Their mates I’d assume. In a world of dwindling resources if you have control over a huge percentage of the raw materials required for nuclear power, microchips, gas, oil - the list goes on, you basically hold the rest of the world to ransom

 

[Jack K]

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A useful, and somewhat reassuring, point of view from a journo on the ground in Kiev.

Thanks for posting that.
Sweeney is a credible and believable source.
Lots of interesting opinion.

 

[paigntonhibby]

Ukraine will fall within a couple days at this rate, then we will have Russians on the border at Poland, will get interesting if missiles go over the border into Poland, what's Russias end game, will a madman just stop at Ukraine..

Naw, there's large Russian speaking populations in all the baltic states and if he succeeds in ukraine then no doubt he'll want to " protect " those populations as well.
Fortunately they're in NATO and much to the Marxists on here's disgust they will be defended militarily.

 

[bigmanandy]

Naw, there's large Russian speaking populations in all the baltic states and if he succeeds in ukraine then no doubt he'll want to " protect " those populations as well.
Fortunately they're in NATO and much to the Marxists on here's disgust they will be defended militarily.

Ukraine should have been defended, Putin should have been stopped in his tracks, the west is too slow and out of touch to do anything meaningful, no doubt we will eventually have Russian backed elections in Ukraine and we know how that will turn out.

 

[Beagle]

Ukraine should have been defended, Putin should have been stopped in his tracks, the west is too slow and out of touch to do anything meaningful, no doubt we will eventually have Russian backed elections in Ukraine and we know how that will turn out.

That really would have kicked off WW3.

 

[paigntonhibby]

That really would have kicked off WW3.

Ye cannae just roll over and let him do it, he's a fuckin bully and bullies have to be faced up to

 

[Hibee Kev]

That really would have kicked off WW3.

The line in the sand will need to be drawn somewhere, where would you suggest?

 

[bigmanandy]

That really would have kicked off WW3.

Ah well, it'll all be fine if a Russian missile hits the Chernobyl area right enough as there is currently fighting in that area.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

I mind watching this a few years ago,scary

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[jetsam1]

What is worrying is that Putin has historically not been beyond flattening civilian targets. Going to be brutal.

I think banging on about how the West is awful and rubbish and the real evildoers is not really a good look right now. There is a real war happening in Europe right now and it is a full on unjustified war of aggression against a (albeit imperfect) democracy.

So what next? Total pariah status, heavy sanctions hitting the upper tier of Russia hard, export controls, travel bans....... I am not against siezing property in EU countries as well. Make them hurt.

I feel bad about saying this because infantry is infantry and people on both sides.... But, I hope the Ukrainian military can hold and stay cohesive long enough to stretch Russain supplies and make this expensive enough Putin can't hide it and bullshit through it. After that, going to be guerilla warfare if the amount of people buying guns is anything to go by. Ukrainehas mobilised reserves and called up conscripts.

 

[Beagle]

The line in the sand will need to be drawn somewhere, where would you suggest?

Well, since the Baltic states and Poland, (there’s probably other countries in the region too but those come immediately to mind) are already NATO members, I’d doubt Putin would risk invasion under those circumstances as that would really be the end of days as NATO is obligated to defend member states. I think he’ll do his best to undermine the political systems in those countries that border Russia whereby they’ll sleepwalk into ‘electing’ pro Russian governments. NATO membership would then be voted out and that’s how he will expand his vision of empire without going down the route of all out war with the west as they’d have to respect those countries democratic will to dispense with western style governments and indeed NATO. Ukraine has been in the unfortunate position where they’re still in the process of making overtures to NATO resulting in Russia moving now before it’s too late and they have another US missile base on their southern doorstep.

 

[Beagle]

Furthermore, I reckon China is sitting back watching how the west reacts. If the west overstretches their military to confront Russia, China will mobilise against Taiwan while America is distracted.

 

[jetsam1]

Well, since the Baltic states and Poland, (there’s probably other countries in the region too but those come immediately to mind) are already NATO members, I’d doubt Putin would risk invasion under those circumstances as that would really be the end of days as NATO is obligated to defend member states. I think he’ll do his best to undermine the political systems in those countries that border Russia whereby they’ll sleepwalk into ‘electing’ pro Russian governments. NATO membership would then be voted out and that’s how he will expand his vision of empire without going down the route of all out war with the west as they’d have to respect those countries democratic will to dispense with western style governments and indeed NATO. Ukraine has been in the unfortunate position where they’re still in the process of making overtures to NATO resulting in Russia moving now before it’s too late and they have another US missile base on their southern doorstep.

I wouldn't be too confident of the ex Soviet states moving towards Russia, certainly not now. Russain occupation is still within living memory and the damage done during Communism was immense. So, no-one wants them back, certainly not after this today.

There were very good reasons for Poland, Hungary etc to apply to NATO and the EU, looking for protection as fear of a resurgent Russia being beligerant was always a risk. Not the Wests fault that. Putin has chosen, no-one else and the consequences are on him.

 

[Beagle]

I wouldn't be too confident of the ex Soviet states moving towards Russia, certainly not now. Russain occupation is still within living memory and the damage done during Communism was immense. So, no-one wants them back, certainly not after this today.

There were very good reasons for Poland, Hungary etc to apply to NATO and the EU, looking for protection as fear of a resurgent Russia being beligerant was always a risk. Not the Wests fault that. Putin has chosen, no-one else and the consequences are on him.

Those countries have democratically elected governments. That also means that in future elections they could theoretically vote a pro Russia government into power. If Russia is able to undermine the pro western governments they have at present, which is by no means a given or impossible, then the first thing they’ll do is empty NATO in favour of the protection of mother Russia.
Now none of that hypothetical situation might come to pass in our lifetimes (which, depending on how the west reacts and what Russia does next, might be shorter than we’d hoped) or in future but I’d wager Putin would like for his legacy to be the guy that rebuilt the Soviet Union.

 

[hibbybilly]

Those countries have democratically elected governments. That also means that in future elections they could theoretically vote a pro Russia government into power. If Russia is able to undermine the pro western governments they have at present, which is by no means a given or impossible, then the first thing they’ll do is empty NATO in favour of the protection of mother Russia.
Now none of that hypothetical situation might come to pass in our lifetimes (which, depending on how the west reacts and what Russia does next, might be shorter than we’d hoped) or in future but I’d wager Putin would like for his legacy to be the guy that rebuilt the Soviet Union.

And not for starting a nuclear war?

 

[Beagle]

And not for starting a nuclear war?

Who knows, but if he wants that as a legacy there’s not going to be anyone left alive to remember him

 

[BVilleggiante]

Ukraine will fall within a couple days at this rate, then we will have Russians on the border at Poland, will get interesting if missiles go over the border into Poland, what's Russias end game, will a madman just stop at Ukraine..

It will indeed since Poland is in NATO and America has now setup American troops on the border.

 

[joethehibby]

It will indeed since Poland is in NATO and America has now setup American troops on the border.

Is belarus not got a border with poland ?

 

[bigmanandy]

Chernobyl has fallen to the Russians.

 

[bigmanandy]

Think Ukraine should tell its people and troops to head to the borders, save lives and save your pride for another day.