Strikes,Facts Figures Updates

[Norwayhibs]

Today junior doctors go out on a four day strike, want a rise from 14 pounds an hour to 19 pounds an hour. What are bouncers opinions on this? Doctors on strike, operations getting cancelled etc etc. What I can’t get my head around is that a doctor is on as little as 14 pounds an hour. Is that hourly rate real?

 

[joethehibby]

Today junior doctors go out on a four day strike, want a rise from 14 pounds an hour to 19 pounds an hour. What are bouncers opinions on this? Doctors on strike, operations getting cancelled etc etc. What I can’t get my head around is that a doctor is on as little as 14 pounds an hour. Is that hourly rate real?

Think it’s because of how little their wage has risen in the last 10/15 years

 

[Bangkokhibby]

Today junior doctors go out on a four day strike, want a rise from 14 pounds an hour to 19 pounds an hour. What are bouncers opinions on this? Doctors on strike, operations getting cancelled etc etc. What I can’t get my head around is that a doctor is on as little as 14 pounds an hour. Is that hourly rate real?

They seem to be paid a lot less than similar in other countries. Media doing their bit to make them sound bad, cancelling operations, people dying before they're seen etc. But of course all this is happening now anyway in the deliberately underfunded and desperately short staffed NHS. It's about far more than pay but as a starter a decent rise might stem the flow of junior doctors leaving the service.

 

[Norwayhibs]

They seem to be paid a lot less than similar in other countries. Media doing their bit to make them sound bad, cancelling operations, people dying before they're seen etc. But of course all this is happening now anyway in the deliberately underfunded and desperately short staffed NHS. It's about far more than pay but as a starter a decent rise might stem the flow of junior doctors leaving the service.

I agree, but to finish medical studies after many years with an enormous student loan and go into a profession with a starting wage of £14 an hour seems crazy. How long are doctors classed as junior doctors? Is there a massive jump in wages from junior doctors to GP/ senior doctors. I agree with you that the strike is about much more than pay. What is staggering is that the government won’t even come to the negotiating table

 

[Bangkokhibby]

I agree, but to finish medical studies after many years with an enormous student loan and go into a profession with a starting wage of £14 an hour seems crazy. How long are doctors classed as junior doctors? Is there a massive jump in wages from junior doctors to GP/ senior doctors. I agree with you that the strike is about much more than pay. What is staggering is that the government won’t even come to the negotiating table

I firmly believe a fully privatised health service with a safety net for the poor is the aim of the Tories. They really don't care about people. I read recently that their initial aim is to hugely increase people opting for private health cover, thereby boosting the profits of health insurance companies where, surprise surprise many mp's/ministers/financial backers have seats on the board or are employed as consultants.

 

[Bangkokhibby]

Minimum 11 years including uni and medical school before they are fully qualified. Depends on the field they want to specialize in.

 

[tayside hibee]

I firmly believe a fully privatised health service with a safety net for the poor is the aim of the Tories. They really don't care about people. I read recently that their initial aim is to hugely increase people opting for private health cover, thereby boosting the profits of health insurance companies where, surprise surprise many mp's/ministers/financial backers have seats on the board or are employed as consultants.

Did you work that out all by yourself ?
I firmly believe my Mrs will be in the huff with me when I return from the game on Saturday around 8 pm after being on the lash all day .

 

[Rocky]

I agree, but to finish medical studies after many years with an enormous student loan and go into a profession with a starting wage of £14 an hour seems crazy. How long are doctors classed as junior doctors? Is there a massive jump in wages from junior doctors to GP/ senior doctors. I agree with you that the strike is about much more than pay. What is staggering is that the government won’t even come to the negotiating table

This is a pretty good read on the life (and wages) of a junior doctor.

This is Going to Hurt By Adam Kay | Used & New | 9781509858637 | World of Books

Buy This is Going to Hurt: Secret Diaries of a Junior Doctor By Adam Kay. New & used copies available with free delivery in the UK. ISBN: 9781509858637. ISBN-10: 1509858636

www.wob.com

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Junior doctors strike back – Save our NHS with socialist policies! | The Communist

Junior doctors organised in the BMA are striking this week, joining other public sector workers in the struggle for decent pay and conditions. Austerity and privatisation are killing our NHS. Only bold socialist policies can save it.

socialist.net

BIG G

 

[greencol]

Today junior doctors go out on a four day strike, want a rise from 14 pounds an hour to 19 pounds an hour. What are bouncers opinions on this? Doctors on strike, operations getting cancelled etc etc. What I can’t get my head around is that a doctor is on as little as 14 pounds an hour. Is that hourly rate real?

At 19quid per hour they're not even greedy.
For the time it takes and the work they put in to become a Doctor £19 p/h is pretty crap.

 

[Norwayhibs]

At 19quid per hour they're not even greedy.
For the time it takes and the work they put in to become a Doctor £19 p/h is pretty crap.

Greencol, if that figure is real then it’s a fuckin scandal.

 

[Norwayhibs]

Junior doctors strike back – Save our NHS with socialist policies! | The Communist

Junior doctors organised in the BMA are striking this week, joining other public sector workers in the struggle for decent pay and conditions. Austerity and privatisation are killing our NHS. Only bold socialist policies can save it.

socialist.net

BIG G

Thanks for that G, the NHS has taken a real battering in this last decade because of the tories.

 

[Doc Shrink]

This is a pretty good read on the life (and wages) of a junior doctor.

This is Going to Hurt By Adam Kay | Used & New | 9781509858637 | World of Books

Buy This is Going to Hurt: Secret Diaries of a Junior Doctor By Adam Kay. New & used copies available with free delivery in the UK. ISBN: 9781509858637. ISBN-10: 1509858636

www.wob.com

Read that, quite amusing.
The TV series was disappointing.

 

[Norwayhibs]

The health minister gets telt .

 

[joethehibby]

Are the trains in scotland running normally now ?

 

[HenryLB]

I'd say it's a scandalously low wage for a junior doctor but I'd be interested in comparators from countries that run fully socialised (ie free at point of need) healthcare systems. Every comparison I've seen is from a country that uses some hybrid of insurance and public funding.

I'm also interested at what point we should stop raising NHS funding as a percentage of GDP. Every government - including the current Tory one has raised health spending in real terms and as a % of GDP it's now nearly double what it was in 2000.

 

[Rocky]

I'd say it's a scandalously low wage for a junior doctor but I'd be interested in comparators from countries that run fully socialised (ie free at point of need) healthcare systems. Every comparison I've seen is from a country that uses some hybrid of insurance and public funding.

I'm also interested at what point we should stop raising NHS funding as a percentage of GDP. Every government - including the current Tory one has raised health spending in real terms and as a % of GDP it's now nearly double what it was in 2000.

How much of that funding goes to private providers now compared to in 2000? And how much of that subsequently goes straight into shareholders pockets?

 

[Doc Shrink]

How much of that funding goes to private providers now compared to in 2000? And how much of that subsequently goes straight into shareholders pockets?

A lot more.
And most.

 

[Rocky]

A lot more.
And most.

Thought it might be in that ballpark

 

[joethehibby]

The health minister gets telt .

Absolute bawsack of a man, how do these arseholes get these jobs

 

[Norwayhibs]

I'd say it's a scandalously low wage for a junior doctor but I'd be interested in comparators from countries that run fully socialised (ie free at point of need) healthcare systems. Every comparison I've seen is from a country that uses some hybrid of insurance and public funding.

I'm also interested at what point we should stop raising NHS funding as a percentage of GDP. Every government - including the current Tory one has raised health spending in real terms and as a % of GDP it's now nearly double what it was in 2000.

Just Googled what junior doctors are on over here in norway. I think the system here is very much like the NHS.
A medical student with a license has a minimum salary of approximately NOK 485,000, while a senior physician has a minimum salary of around NOK 900,000.

its roughly 10kr to the £ so divide by ten.

 

[hibbybilly]

They cvnts were asking for 10K an hour the other week there and winnae give the doctors £19. Greedy wankers.

 

[Doc Shrink]

They cvnts were asking for 10K an hour the other week there and winnae give the doctors £19. Greedy wankers.

£10k a day I think Billy.

So, taking that as an hourly rate based on their workload that’s about £40k an hour.

 

[hibbybilly]

£10k a day I think Billy.

So, taking that as an hourly rate based on their workload that’s about £40k an hour.

Maths isnae my strongpoint, I was terrible at geography at School.

 

[HaarlemShuffler]

Just Googled what junior doctors are on over here in norway. I think the system here is very much like the NHS.
A medical student with a license has a minimum salary of approximately NOK 485,000, while a senior physician has a minimum salary of around NOK 900,000.

its roughly 10kr to the £ so divide by ten.

You forgot to mention that a loaf of bread is NOK 9,500

 

[Norwayhibs]

Uk largest nursing union (Royal College Nursing )just voted and have rejected the government pay offer.
Unison members have accepted their pay offer.

 

[moathibby]

Gone are the days when the RCN are the 'less militant non striking ' health union,that particular dishonerably lead union goes to Unison.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Gone are the days when the RCN are the 'less militant non striking ' health union,that particular dishonerably lead union goes to Unison.

The RCN clearly are out of touch with their membership.
They, like others recommended below inflation rises to their member. They are now in the contradictory position of on the one hand saying that it was the best offer that they can get for RCN members but now going back to the Tory table and saying, sorry our members don't think that this is so. Useless!
The position taken by Keir Starmer and Wes Streeting are also disgraceful.

NHS strikes: Defiant doctors continue struggle as nurses reject offer | Socialist Appeal

BIG G

 

[HenryLB]

How much of that funding goes to private providers now compared to in 2000? And how much of that subsequently goes straight into shareholders pockets?

It's been about 7% for years. With obviously the lion's share of that being to GPs. It certainly hasn't markedly increased under the tories in England - or in Scotland's case under the SNP.

There's always going to be some private sector participation, unless we want the NHS to do things like manufacture its own pencils. The most immediate way it could be reduced would be to change the structure of how GPs work.

 

[HenryLB]

Just Googled what junior doctors are on over here in norway. I think the system here is very much like the NHS.
A medical student with a license has a minimum salary of approximately NOK 485,000, while a senior physician has a minimum salary of around NOK 900,000.

its roughly 10kr to the £ so divide by ten.

Yes, as I said earlier I'd def say juniors are underpaid here. However as you point out our senior doctors/specialists seem to be relatively better paid than in Norway.

 

[Rocky]

It's been about 7% for years. With obviously the lion's share of that being to GPs. It certainly hasn't markedly increased under the tories in England - or in Scotland's case under the SNP.

There's always going to be some private sector participation, unless we want the NHS to do things like manufacture its own pencils. The most immediate way it could be reduced would be to change the structure of how GPs work.

Maybe it's 7%, maybe it's not.

Flawed data? Why NHS spending on the independent sector may actually be much more than 7%

The presentation of data on NHS expenditure is flawed, writes David Rowland, which prevents policymakers from having a clear understanding of where money within the system is going. He estimates th…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

 

[HenryLB]

Maybe it's 7%, maybe it's not.

Flawed data? Why NHS spending on the independent sector may actually be much more than 7%

The presentation of data on NHS expenditure is flawed, writes David Rowland, which prevents policymakers from having a clear understanding of where money within the system is going. He estimates th…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

Not a major smoking gun. Especially given your worries about cash going to shareholders.

In any case I don't really understand this fetish for state provision. None of the best performing European health systems has a purely public model. The Dutch currently have private insurance, universal healthcare done by private entities, and they generally top the table for the best outcomes in the world.

 

[Rocky]

Not a major smoking gun. Especially given your worries about cash going to shareholders.

In any case I don't really understand this fetish for state provision. None of the best performing European health systems has a purely public model. The Dutch currently have private insurance, universal healthcare done by private entities, and they generally top the table for the best outcomes in the world.

What are you on about fetishisation? You're the one querying increasing NHS budgets, I asked how much of that went to private providers, you claimed 7% and flat. That piece suggests 26% to the independent sector with a 23% increase in 6 years.

 

[HenryLB]

What are you on about fetishisation? You're the one querying increasing NHS budgets, I asked how much of that went to private providers, you claimed 7% and flat. That piece suggests 26% to the independent sector with a 23% increase in 6 years.

But you said your problem with private providers was largely money swallowed by shareholders. The piece points out that BUPA and Nuffield etc don't have shareholders.

There's a 12% increase in GP budgets but as I said you can only do something about that by getting rid of the current GP structure. Which I suppose I might support if you could show me a better system. Payments to private pharma entities like Boots and Lloyds, and expenditure on social care have, according to your article, actually gone down. Which doesn't look like creeping privatisation.

I'm 'on about fetishisation' because I don't understand why you think private provision is such a taboo. It happens all over Europe - in Germany, the Netherlands, France etc - and it's often demonstrably more successful than the outcomes we get here.

 

[Rocky]

But you said your problem with private providers was largely money swallowed by shareholders.

No I didn't. I asked a question. And for anyone worried about increasing NHS budgets the answer to that question showing a 23% increase in spending with independent providers would seem pertinent. I guess you weren't actually all that interested in the reasons for increasing NHS budgets after all, and were just looking to back your preferred free market solution. Seen that script before.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

What are you on about fetishisation? You're the one querying increasing NHS budgets, I asked how much of that went to private providers, you claimed 7% and flat. That piece suggests 26% to the independent sector with a 23% increase in 6 years.

In the Socialist Appeal article the writers say....
"Today, Private companies are already hoovering up as much as 25 percent of NHS spending, amounting to tens of billions of pounds"...
The writers are both BMC Junior Doctors, who obviously do understand the threat to the NHS and do understand why we think private provision is such a taboo.
Whilst Henry, the Tories, Starmer, Richard Branson and many others including the Scottish Government I suspect don't. I do.
American companies are queuing up to get their grubby hands on this UKs publicly owned asset.
Like the Post Office, hammering Post Office workers has been a softening up for the sale to Venture Capitalists.
Folk that clapped and banged pots and pans in support during Covid to support for Porters,Cleaners, Doctors, Nurses, Ambulance drivers, Street Orderlies, the Police , Fire fighters and others will not be taken in by this, however the Billionaire 'free press', SMS and compliant political opposition in the form of Labour, SNP, Liberals, and weak Trade Union leaders, don't and won't clearly come out and state the bleeding obvious about what is happening before all of our and their eyes. Quelle surprise !

BIG G

 

[hibbybilly]

Posties deal in the offing.

 

[Norwayhibs]

Here in norway all the unions come under a main union council who negotiate the collective bargaining agreements on behalf of the different unions, I am in the building industry and have been taken out on strike this morning . Same issues as in the uk, we need a higher than inflation wage hike and are sick to death of industry leaders lining their own pockets. Over here we negotiate the collective bargaining agreement terms( sick pay, wage, pensions, etc )every other year, in the year in between we negotiate only wage terms. This year is just a wage negotiation year, and for the first time since the war we have been taken out on strike . Luckily the sun is out

 

[Bangkokhibby]

Here in norway all the unions come under a main union council who negotiate the collective bargaining agreements on behalf of the different unions, I am in the building industry and have been taken out on strike this morning . Same issues as in the uk, we need a higher than inflation wage hike and are sick to death of industry leaders lining their own pockets. Over here we negotiate the collective bargaining agreement terms( sick pay, wage, pensions, etc )every other year, in the year in between we negotiate only wage terms. This year is just a wage negotiation year, and for the first time since the war we have been taken out on strike . Luckily the sun is out

Good luck comrade. Hope you get what you want. Let us know.
Edit.. I see you say "taken out on strike" is it not what you want?

 

[Norwayhibs]

Good luck comrade. Hope you get what you want. Let us know.
Edit.. I see you say "taken out on strike" is it not what you want?

Sorry just a figure of speech, fuckin right I want it. the industry leaders and bosses are giving themselves obscene bonuses and wage rises. As in the Uk , inflation and the cost of living is on the up and we want our piece of the pie. We need a pay rise above the rate of inflation, the unions have said that we will call off the strike if they can give us 4.9%, but that has to include everybody, meaning the traditionally low paid jobs like entertainment industry, hotel jobs, cleaning etc. That’s the sticking point.

we are extremely lucky in Norway being a small population, 27000 were out this morning ,with a further 15000 going out on Friday, with so many out , the knock on effects are very visible, transport, building brewery industry, ferry boat service, road work companies are all affected as of this morning