NHS Fife tribunal around trans doctor

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Got that trumpet archie on ignore, but through your replies to him it’s so easy to know what he is implying and his ignorance is astounding. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
Hattie said:
Got that trumpet archie on ignore, but through your replies to him it’s so easy to know what he is implying and his ignorance is astounding. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Boooo you shouldnae have folk on ignore Stu it's no the Moredun way 🤔
 
Sancho Panza said:
Why indeed is the Scottish Government spaffing public money up the wall to justify the indefensible? Maybe because if Swinney admits it's wrong, the whole gender self ID bollocks falls apart. Strange hill to want to die on.

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The [Scottish] Government has said it believes the Equality Act 2010 act “does not mandate sex segregation”.

“It does not contain any ‘norm’, positive or negative, express or implied, in that regard,” the Scottish Government’s note of argument states.

“It does not absolutely prohibit deviation from any norm. It provides a remedy for an individual who is able to establish a claim.”

The Scottish Government is implying there's a gap in UK legislation that could provide the basis for a claim against it if it did not allow these people in womans jails.

It could be that there are criminals already in this position just waiting to claim substantial damages if they were to be moved.

The sooner the UK government updates the Equality Act to reflect the High Court ruling and publish the guidance they've been sitting on for months the better.
 
Jack said:
The [Scottish] Government has said it believes the Equality Act 2010 act “does not mandate sex segregation”.

“It does not contain any ‘norm’, positive or negative, express or implied, in that regard,” the Scottish Government’s note of argument states.

“It does not absolutely prohibit deviation from any norm. It provides a remedy for an individual who is able to establish a claim.”

The Scottish Government is implying there's a gap in UK legislation that could provide the basis for a claim against it if it did not allow these people in womans jails.

It could be that there are criminals already in this position just waiting to claim substantial damages if they were to be moved.

The sooner the UK government updates the Equality Act to reflect the High Court ruling and publish the guidance they've been sitting on for months the better.
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But by that reasoning couldn't the women forced to be locked up with these beasts also sue the SG for breach of their human rights. Looks like it's only the men's feelz that are being considered here. As per.
 
Sancho Panza said:
But by that reasoning couldn't the women forced to be locked up with these beasts also sue the SG for breach of their human rights. Looks like it's only the men's feelz that are being considered here. As per.
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That's were the legislation isn't clear I'd imagine.

As Women for Scotland are taking this case to court it would be a good question to ask them why they chose to do it this way round.
 
Jack said:
That's were the legislation isn't clear I'd imagine.

As Women for Scotland are taking this case to court it would be a good question to ask them why they chose to do it this way round.
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Because they are appalled that the Scottish Government appears to want to put men in women's prisons. The Scottish Government really has fought this whole issue tooth and nail. They could have changed guidance and awaited a challenge from a trans prisoner, but chose not to.

I know this upsets SNP voters but they need to take it up with the SNP.
 
Archie said:
Because they are appalled that the Scottish Government appears to want to put men in women's prisons. The Scottish Government really has fought this whole issue tooth and nail. They could have changed guidance and awaited a challenge from a trans prisoner, but chose not to.

I know this upsets SNP voters but they need to take it up with the SNP.
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Seems to upset you more 😆

The Scottish Government has been taken to court by Women for Scotland. It is defending the Equalities Act.

There's been plenty calling for the Labour government to stop procrastinating over how it's dealing with the High Court ruling. I suspect that could include the Scottish Government.
 
Jack said:
Seems to upset you more 😆

The Scottish Government has been taken to court by Women for Scotland. It is defending the Equalities Act.

There's been plenty calling for the Labour government to stop procrastinating over how it's dealing with the High Court ruling. I suspect that could include the Scottish Government.
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I am upset about it. I don't understand why the Scottish Government is taking the approach of putting trans women in with vulnerable women. Is it because it's women prisoners that you aren't bothered? They are still people.

I see you raise the guidance issue again. I think the UKG should issue it ASAP. But, as I'm sure you know, guidance cannot give a definitive interpretation of the law. It's not cited in the SG defence. In any event the Scottish Government has changed other guidance. So a red herring.
 
Archie said:
I am upset about it. I don't understand why the Scottish Government is taking the approach of putting trans women in with vulnerable women. Is it because it's women prisoners that you aren't bothered? They are still people.

I see you raise the guidance issue again. I think the UKG should issue it ASAP. But, as I'm sure you know, guidance cannot give a definitive interpretation of the law. It's not cited in the SG defence. In any event the Scottish Government has changed other guidance. So a red herring.
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The Scottish Government is applying the law of the land, as decided by Westminster, it has no choice. Oh that's laws OK, we'll no bother with that law, isn't an option. As UK legislation stands at the moment the Scottish Government's interpretation of the law is that it would be illegal not to put trans women in with vulnerable women. That's a UK Law.

Women for Scotland has taken the Scottish Government to court now. The Scottish Government has no option other than to defend itself in court now.

Maybe if the Labour government in Westminster had pulled it's finger out following the High Court ruling this court case wouldn't have been necessary. Women for Scotland wouldn't have been able to take this case to court at all!

Given this is upsetting you so much you could ask your representative at Westminster why it's sitting on the High Court ruling and recommend guidance following it.

Why the delay? Perhaps it's your precious Labour party that are too overly keen to over indulge in trans trans rights debate. We'll all need to wait on Bridget Phillipson MP (Lab) to say something, anything before this mess gets cleared up.

AI summary
Following the Supreme Court's ruling on biological sex, Bridget Phillipson, as Secretary of State for Women & Equalities, has faced scrutiny for delaying the publication of Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) guidance intended to clarify the law, with her department reportedly telling the High Court the guidance was "trans-exclusive" and needed refinement, a move criticized by some as hindering the protection of women-only spaces after the ruling.
 
Jack said:
The Scottish Government is applying the law of the land, as decided by Westminster, it has no choice. Oh that's laws OK, we'll no bother with that law, isn't an option. As UK legislation stands at the moment the Scottish Government's interpretation of the law is that it would be illegal not to put trans women in with vulnerable women. That's a UK Law.

Women for Scotland has taken the Scottish Government to court now. The Scottish Government has no option other than to defend itself in court now.

Maybe if the Labour government in Westminster had pulled it's finger out following the High Court ruling this court case wouldn't have been necessary. Women for Scotland wouldn't have been able to take this case to court at all!

Given this is upsetting you so much you could ask your representative at Westminster why it's sitting on the High Court ruling and recommend guidance following it.

Why the delay? Perhaps it's your precious Labour party that are too overly keen to over indulge in trans trans rights debate. We'll all need to wait on Bridget Phillipson MP (Lab) to say something, anything before this mess gets cleared up.

AI summary
Following the Supreme Court's ruling on biological sex, Bridget Phillipson, as Secretary of State for Women & Equalities, has faced scrutiny for delaying the publication of Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) guidance intended to clarify the law, with her department reportedly telling the High Court the guidance was "trans-exclusive" and needed refinement, a move criticized by some as hindering the protection of women-only spaces after the ruling.
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Excellent deflecting. The Scottish Government has chosen to go down the path of housing trans women in women's prisons. It is being challenged by For Women Scotland who are concerned about this. The Scottish Government could have changed the guidance to keep trans women out of women's prisons. This could have been challenged by a trans prisoner or group.

The Scottish Government chose the path they have gone down. To be fair it's absolutely consistent with their view. But it's their choice and no amount of ' Westminster, Westminster, guidance, Labour or a big boy did it and ran away' changes that fact.

They did it because that's what they believe and that's what they want to do.
 
The contention that the SNP are hapless victims of Westminster trying to avoid complying with supreme court rulings, strains credulity.

It seems quite clear that as @Archie says, they are pursuing an intentional agenda.

As well as what is well established re their court battles, there is this, for example:


Let's face it, the SNP and also Bridget Phillipson, hold to an ideology they are trying to further through action and inaction, respectively.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its probably a woke cultist.
 
Archie said:
Excellent deflecting. The Scottish Government has chosen to go down the path of housing trans women in women's prisons. It is being challenged by For Women Scotland who are concerned about this. The Scottish Government could have changed the guidance to keep trans women out of women's prisons. This could have been challenged by a trans prisoner or group.

The Scottish Government chose the path they have gone down. To be fair it's absolutely consistent with their view. But it's their choice and no amount of ' Westminster, Westminster, guidance, Labour or a big boy did it and ran away' changes that fact.

They did it because that's what they believe and that's what they want to do.
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Any other laws you think Scotland should ignore or challenge?

The last time the Scottish Government got a slap. Maybe they've taken that on hand.

It's quite clear that Westminster hold the cards and the Scottish Government is toeing the line.
 
I'm incredulous that anyone is defending the Scottish Government, who are defending absolute deviants.

There isn't an obvious alternative but this lot need voted out in May.
 
Jack said:
Any other laws you think Scotland should ignore or challenge?

The last time the Scottish Government got a slap. Maybe they've taken that on hand.

It's quite clear that Westminster hold the cards and the Scottish Government is toeing the line.
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It's not ignoring the law - they are making a choice about how they implement it. Of course the Scottish Government can challenge the law - that's why they take things to the Supreme Court.

As for the last bit - good grief!
 
Smurf said:
TI'm incredulous that anyone is defending the Scottish Government, who are defending absolute deviants.

There isn't an obvious alternative but this lot need voted out in May.
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I remember the days that the Greens were seen as a decent ‘protest’ against the big two.
If only the Monster Raving Loony Party had more candidates.
Not me, too old.



What a time to be alive.
 
Jack said:
Any other laws you think Scotland should ignore or challenge?

The last time the Scottish Government got a slap. Maybe they've taken that on hand.

It's quite clear that Westminster hold the cards and the Scottish Government is toeing the line.
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You're wasting your time Jack. The usual suspects are on your case, mate.
 
Archie said:
Actually he's doing a job trying to defend the indefensible. To be fair maybe you don't think it is indefensible. Here's an SNP MSP who has the same view as me:

www.holyrood.com

‘Appalling’: SNP MSP hits out at Scottish Government's single-sex prisons stance

John Swinney under pressure on transgender prisoners as For Women Scotland hearing nears
www.holyrood.com www.holyrood.com
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I don't know enough about it, but Jack was involved in government and I would therefore assume he knows what he is talking about as regards the legislation Scotgov is forced to use, whereas your responses seem to based on emotion rather than cold hard facts.
 
Dub said:
I don't know enough about it, but Jack was involved in government and I would therefore assume he knows what he is talking about as regards the legislation Scotgov is forced to use, whereas your responses seem to based on emotion rather than cold hard facts.
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I've have brought facts to the table. But you're right, I am very unhappy with the direction the Scottish Government has taken on this.
 
Dub said:
You're wasting your time Jack. The usual suspects are on your case, mate.
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I'm well known for tag teaming Archie , or being team Labour, right enough.

The thing is, things are as they are, not as party loyalties want them to be, and that is the case whatever the party and whoever the loyalists.
 
Archie said:
I've have brought facts to the table. But you're right, I am very unhappy with the direction the Scottish Government has taken on this.
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The Scottish Government is following the same line as Bridget Phillipson, Secretary of State for Women & Equalities, Westminster's Labour government.

Westminster holds Parliamentary Sovereignty in the UK.

By challenging this you just want the Scottish Government to lose in the courts again.

That would suit the staunch unionists. Wouldn't it?
 
Jack said:
The Scottish Government is following the same line as Bridget Phillipson, Secretary of State for Women & Equalities, Westminster's Labour government.

Westminster holds Parliamentary Sovereignty in the UK.

By challenging this you just want the Scottish Government to lose in the courts again.

That would suit the staunch unionists. Wouldn't it?
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Not everything is about nationalism. Sometimes there are important issues that cross party lines. You can see that here as even SNP MSP's are speaking out.

The thing I don't understand is that the pursuit of this appears to be very unpopular. Why do this in an election year and why sully an independence vision? I just don't get it.
 
Jack said:
The Scottish Government is following the same line as Bridget Phillipson, Secretary of State for Women & Equalities, Westminster's Labour government.

Westminster holds Parliamentary Sovereignty in the UK.

By challenging this you just want the Scottish Government to lose in the courts again.

That would suit the staunch unionists. Wouldn't it?
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And she's another idiot that shouldn't be in post.
 
Archie said:
Not everything is about nationalism. Sometimes there are important issues that cross party lines. You can see that here as even SNP MSP's are speaking out.

The thing I don't understand is that the pursuit of this appears to be very unpopular. Why do this in an election year and why sully an independence vision? I just don't get it.
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The Scottish Government didn't bring this case to court. I'm sure it's the last thing they wanted.

Ask Women for Scotland why now.

No need to answer I know it's in response to the High Court ruling.

So again. Scottish Government stuck in a hard place through the inaction of the Westminster government.
 
Jack said:
The Scottish Government didn't bring this case to court. I'm sure it's the last thing they wanted.

Ask Women for Scotland why now.

No need to answer I know it's in response to the High Court ruling.

So again. Scottish Government stuck in a hard place through the inaction of the Westminster government.
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But they’re still no happy with the courts ruling, that’s the problem for me 😡
 
Jack said:
The Scottish Government didn't bring this case to court. I'm sure it's the last thing they wanted.

Ask Women for Scotland why now.

No need to answer I know it's in response to the High Court ruling.

So again. Scottish Government stuck in a hard place through the inaction of the Westminster government.
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For women Scotland are challenging the Scottish Government because the SG chose to prioritise trans rights over women's. They could have gone the other way. Nothing to do with Westminster. But you won't believe that.
 
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