NHS Fife tribunal around trans doctor

I keep wondering why a DR was changing in the nurses changing room because as i have read and a nurse has told me, they DO NOT EVER change in the nurses gaff! So was he advised not to change in the Dr’s changing room?
Didn’t want to upset the apple cart in amongst his peers? Thought he was above a simple nurse?
I’m baffled why this hasn’t been mentioned
I’ve worked in a hospital in the past and you’re correct about the changing facilities. I think there’s a throwback to the class system and similar to the military officers’ mess where oiks weren’t allowed. Unless things have changed (🙄sorry) in the last 9 years
 
That IS a bit weird?

I'm a bit puzzled why evidence was given about the nurse's racist 'jokes' in the hearing.

She may well be a racist, but is that relevant to her complaint about a man in a woman's changing area?
Any correlation between the two?

Not sure about that.
It reveals a personality trait in her to discredit her as a decent person
 
It's a sign of where we are that the SNP will be going to the public with a pro immigration, pro refugees and pro trans stance and will still, most likely, be the biggest party.
Maybe due to the alternatives being no better. They have certainly done themselves no favours but I can see why loads still chose them.
 
Sadl
Workers being persecuted by nutter bosses and there union couldnt give a toss.

Sad state of affairs.
Sadly I've seen very little evidence in my working life of unions actually doing what they are meant to be doing and looking out for their members. Very strange days.
 
Back when I worked on sites or with firms I always joined the ucatt union.

They got me a result when I was in dispute with the geezer I worked for back in the day.

I always remember phoning the ucatt office in Edinburgh when agency's were taking over the work scene and the lad told me I'd be better signing on and working casual rather than work for an agency.
 
Sadl
Sadly I've seen very little evidence in my working life of unions actually doing what they are meant to be doing and looking out for their members. Very strange days.
Globalisation fucked them, at least in respect of the private sector: collective bargaining is for the birds once you can import replacement labour or export jobs if folk get too lippy.

Alas there seem to be no bigger champions of it than public sector unions who are insulated from it and in fact benefit from the government borrowing it powers.

If the devils greatest trick is to get people to believe he doesn't exist, capitalisms greatest trick has been to make the left it's champions.

As long as folk are still fighting the battles of 1985 in their heads while defending the interests of capital as they actually are in 2025, workers are fucked outside the state bureaucracy.

Which is why representatives of the latter are busy trying to turns folks heads away from all that towards Israel and trannies.
 
Globalisation fucked them, at least in respect of the private sector: collective bargaining is for the birds once you can import replacement labour or export jobs if folk get too lippy.

Alas there seem to be no bigger champions of it than public sector unions who are insulated from it and in fact benefit from the government borrowing it powers.

If the devils greatest trick is to get people to believe he doesn't exist, capitalisms greatest trick has been to make the left it's champions.

As long as folk are still fighting the battles of 1985 in their heads while defending the interests of capital as they actually are in 2025, workers are fucked outside the state bureaucracy.

Which is why representatives of the latter are busy trying to turns folks heads away from all that towards Israel and trannies.
Exactly. Divert folk from what's happening in front of them. Soo frustrating watching it happen over and over again. We have fallen behind inflation unbelievably wages wise and its no so much harder just to pay the basics. How the feck did we let it happen beats me.
 
Exactly. Divert folk from what's happening in front of them. Soo frustrating watching it happen over and over again. We have fallen behind inflation unbelievably wages wise and its no so much harder just to pay the basics. How the feck did we let it happen beats me.
Nobody stands together anymore.
 
Nobody stands together anymore.
Massive culture shift since I was a lad. Nobody wants to put their hands up to help anymore. The scouts are really struggling as so few guys want to be leaders anymore. I think mobiles have made so many more folk consumed by anger and jealousy rather than looking to help others. I see it happening everyday. Don't get me wrong they are still loads of nice folk around but watching everybody bar me on their mobiles on the bus yesterday was just soul destroying. They have taken folks focus away from what actually matters. Imho of course.
 
Massive culture shift since I was a lad. Nobody wants to put their hands up to help anymore. The scouts are really struggling as so few guys want to be leaders anymore. I think mobiles have made so many more folk consumed by anger and jealousy rather than looking to help others. I see it happening everyday. Don't get me wrong they are still loads of nice folk around but watching everybody bar me on their mobiles on the bus yesterday was just soul destroying. They have taken folks focus away from what actually matters. Imho of course.
Well to be fair to myself I read most of my books on my e-reader on my dog and bone.

So if you see me on the bus staring intently it's just me reading. Honest.
 
It's the dafties who don't put the phone on silent mode that can be nippy.

Anyway the Sandie Peggie case. The geezer at wings over Scotland has went through the judgement and has shown the tribunal only backed her up because it was blatant disregard for Peggies rights.


 
It's the dafties who don't put the phone on silent mode that can be nippy.

Anyway the Sandie Peggie case. The geezer at wings over Scotland has went through the judgement and has shown the tribunal only backed her up because it was blatant disregard for Peggies rights.



I skimmed the judgement but it did seem to me that the tribunal wasn’t a clear cut victory, and there still seems to be some ambiguity between different legislation.
 
It's the dafties who don't put the phone on silent mode that can be nippy.

Anyway the Sandie Peggie case. The geezer at wings over Scotland has went through the judgement and has shown the tribunal only backed her up because it was blatant disregard for Peggies rights.


ffs Jimmy, you trying to post more content than EGB 🤣
 
Even had a woman last night at the bus stop playing you tube full blast oblivious to everybody else. It's pathetic that they can't just put headphones on. Totally feckin selfish. Same with not turning the sound off on notifications. It's a bloody epidemic these days.
 
I found this summary on a Facebook group. Their explanations are pretty much accurate it seems.

You may have seen headlines claiming that “Sandie Peggie won her case against NHS Fife.”
Unfortunately, most media reports have left out the key facts and in doing so, have given a very inaccurate picture of what actually happened.

Here are the facts from the tribunal’s own findings:

🔎 What the tribunal actually decided
The tribunal dismissed the vast majority of Ms Peggie’s claims, including:
❌ All claims of discrimination
❌ All claims of victimisation
❌ All claims of harassment by Dr Beth Upton
❌ Every allegation made against Dr Upton
The tribunal went even further, finding that Ms Peggie herself harassed Dr Upton during the Christmas Eve changing-room incident. They concluded that some of Ms Peggie’s comments were impermissible manifestations of her beliefs and amounted to harassment related to gender reassignment.

The judge also criticised messages Ms Peggie had written about Dr Upton in a private online chat, stating that some were indicative of trans-phobic views and went beyond expressing a belief, becoming personal attacks.

✔️ What Ms Peggie did succeed on
Ms Peggie succeeded only on a few narrow procedural points about how NHS Fife handled the situation, not its policies.
Specifically, the tribunal found that NHS Fife:
Took too long to investigate allegations
Referred to patient-care concerns in an inappropriate way
Mishandled instructions given to her
Should have put a temporary rota solution in place so she and Dr Upton did not need to use the changing room at the same time while rotas were being adjusted
These procedural failings were deemed to have the effect of harassing her but they do not amount to discrimination, nor do they mean she “won” the case in the way many headlines suggest.

🏳️‍⚧️ On the use of facilities
The tribunal was crystal clear:
✅ It was lawful for NHS Fife to allow Dr Upton, a trans woman, to use the women’s changing room
✅ It remains lawful to allow trans staff to use facilities matching their gender identity, depending on circumstances
❌ There is no evidence that a trans woman poses any greater risk in a workplace changing room than any other woman

This directly contradicts the narrative being pushed by parts of the media and by anti-trans campaigners.

📌 The bottom line

This case was not a legal victory about sex-based facilities or “proving” discrimination.

It was a narrow finding that NHS Fife made some procedural errors, while at the same time:
Upholding the rights of trans staff
Rejecting all discrimination and harassment claims
Finding Ms Peggie harassed Dr Upton, not the other way around

Ms Peggie has the right to appeal the decisions made by the Employment Tribunal, so this may not be the last word on this case.
Ms Peggie had already started separate legal action against managers at NHS Fife, and against the Royal College of Nursing, which she may continue with.

Any media framing this as a broad “win” for Ms Peggie or as a ruling against trans people using appropriate facilities is simply not reporting the reality of the judgment.
 
"indicative of trans-phobic views"

So dies that mean that any of us in here who support nurse Peggie and also think men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms are 'trans-phobic' then?

Or just live in the real world?
 
"indicative of trans-phobic views"

So dies that mean that any of us in here who support nurse Peggie and also think men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms are 'trans-phobic' then?

Or just live in the real world?
It means you can have whatever views you like. In private. As soon as you impose your views, in this case transphobic, on another then you leave yourself wide open. Such is the real world we live in today
 
But are the polis no visiting homes at folk who have spoke about their view in private to friends and family?

Surely those who insist mean can be women are imposing their views on others then.
 
Men in frocks are not women. They under no circumstances be allowed in female only toilets and this whole shit fest about trans demands and the rest off the nonsense is getting right on my (non) tits.
I await the knock on the door fae the boys in blue
 
"indicative of trans-phobic views"

So dies that mean that any of us in here who support nurse Peggie and also think men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms are 'trans-phobic' then?

Or just live in the real world?
According to the judgement I'd say you are pretty much correct.
As I alluded to earlier, as soon as I saw the bit about sex being assigned at birth, I knew the writing was on the wall. And the writing said "Fuck common sense."
Like many folk, I just don't believe in 'transitioning sex'.

Call me a dinosaur (a pissypantasaurus possibly) but I'm afraid men pretending to be women, no matter how much they want it to be true, it just isn't.

I await a knock on the door.
 
According to the judgement I'd say you are pretty much correct.
As I alluded to earlier, as soon as I saw the bit about sex being assigned at birth, I knew the writing was on the wall. And the writing said "Fuck common sense."
Like many folk, I just don't believe in 'transitioning sex'.

Call me a dinosaur (a pissypantasaurus possibly) but I'm afraid men pretending to be women, no matter how much they want it to be true, it just isn't.

I await a knock on the door.
Send them round to me too, Doc.
 
So the fucker is biased and has altered the tribunal ruling to justify HIS view.

Surely he is not fit for purpose.
 
So the fucker is biased and has altered the tribunal ruling to justify HIS view.

Surely he is not fit for purpose.
The whole thing stinks. Particularly of class snobbery. Siding with respectable middle class doctor over lippy working class woman. Notice how all his colleagues rallied round and closed ranks to defend one of their own against a member of the lower orders.

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Patrick Harvie seems to think it's a win for his beliefs.

"Despite the valiant attempts from anti trans campaigners to claim a win on this issue, the tribunal in fact found that Ms Peggie's own behaviour amounted to harassment of Dr Upton, and it dismissed the vast majority of her claims.

"Most importantly, it is the second Scottish employment tribunal in a month to find that employers are not, in fact, required to operate the kind of trans segregation policies which anti-equality groups are pushing for. So does the Scottish Government agree that the blanket exclusion of trans people from facilities that they need at work is generally unlawful and will therefore make it clear to all public bodies in Scotland that segregation of trans people is not supported in law and that their human rights will be defended against the current onslaught?"
 
Patrick Harvie seems to think it's a win for his beliefs.

"Despite the valiant attempts from anti trans campaigners to claim a win on this issue, the tribunal in fact found that Ms Peggie's own behaviour amounted to harassment of Dr Upton, and it dismissed the vast majority of her claims.

"Most importantly, it is the second Scottish employment tribunal in a month to find that employers are not, in fact, required to operate the kind of trans segregation policies which anti-equality groups are pushing for. So does the Scottish Government agree that the blanket exclusion of trans people from facilities that they need at work is generally unlawful and will therefore make it clear to all public bodies in Scotland that segregation of trans people is not supported in law and that their human rights will be defended against the current onslaught?"
And sturgeon threw her lot in with those freaks. She has caused damage to the SNP even if they romp the next election.

Folk will remember that I'm thinking.
 
Patrick Harvie seems to think it's a win for his beliefs.

"Despite the valiant attempts from anti trans campaigners to claim a win on this issue, the tribunal in fact found that Ms Peggie's own behaviour amounted to harassment of Dr Upton, and it dismissed the vast majority of her claims.

"Most importantly, it is the second Scottish employment tribunal in a month to find that employers are not, in fact, required to operate the kind of trans segregation policies which anti-equality groups are pushing for. So does the Scottish Government agree that the blanket exclusion of trans people from facilities that they need at work is generally unlawful and will therefore make it clear to all public bodies in Scotland that segregation of trans people is not supported in law and that their human rights will be defended against the current onslaught?"
Typical Harvie bullshit. He just can't help himself.
Well he's answering bits of the judgement that was reached.
The judgement summary was quite lengthy and he just picked on a couple of points that are still contentious grey areas. There is set to be more clarity in the legislation which will give trans people their own designated changing facilities and keep them out of women's designated changing facilities. Folk who are not women should not be allowed in women's changing areas. Not rocket science just catering for the rights of all.