- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
FFS. 
NHS Fife tribunal around trans doctor
- Thread starter Purple & Green
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2022
No surprise there at all that the union is as out of touch with the public as the politicos are.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
She's not "out of touch" Jimmy. She's a moron.
How anyone can come out with drivel like this is beyond me.
âI havenât followed that case. But what were the real issues within that? I have trans friends, trans women friends; my nephew is a trans man. I wouldnât have an issue. Iâd want to understand. Because the argument can then develop to anybody saying⌠âWell, I donât want you there because youâve got blonde hairâ or âI donât want them there because theyâve got blue eyesâ,â Egan says.
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
The mistake with cases like this is to treat it as an outlier. She is absolutely on point with what the UKG was arguing and what the Scottish Government still is. Same with Carol Potter. She wasn't out on a limb. She was absolutely in line with Scottish Government priorities. There is a roll back, but it's slower in Scotland.
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
You seem very keen, at every opportunity, to make it sound as though the Scottish Government are taking the lead on this as a policy directive and that they are responsible for it.
May I remind you, and if you didn't already know, the UK Cabinet Office lead on Equality and Opportunity for all government departments including the Scottish Government and all that falls under it. Any guidance used, or disseminated through the Scottish Government, will have come from the Cabinet Office.
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- Jun 18, 2022
That daftie Isla Bumba is a belter.....
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- Jun 18, 2022
NHS Fife and it's dafties are deranged Doc.
That's interesting about the blonde hair blue eyes.
Who remembers when Dianne Abbott got a load of nurses from Finland thrown out of Homerton Hospital because 'they have probably never seen a black person before'.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2022
LABOUR MP Diane Abbott yesterday defended herself against charges of racism after criticising the appointment of ``blonde, blue-eyed'' Finnish nurses at her local hospital.
The black MP suggested the nurses at Homerton Hospital, Hackney, might be unfit to work in the multicultural east London borough.
Writing in her local paper, the Hackney Gazette, the MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: ``I am sure that these young women are charming. But they are basically here to improve their English and are unlikely to give the British health service a lifetime's commitment.''
www.heraldscotland.com
The black MP suggested the nurses at Homerton Hospital, Hackney, might be unfit to work in the multicultural east London borough.
Writing in her local paper, the Hackney Gazette, the MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: ``I am sure that these young women are charming. But they are basically here to improve their English and are unlikely to give the British health service a lifetime's commitment.''
Abbott denies attack on nurses was racist
LABOUR MP Diane Abbott yesterday defended herself against charges of racism after criticising the appointment of ``blonde, blue-eyed'' Finnish nurses at her local hospital.
www.heraldscotland.com
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
Oh Jack. It was the Scottish Government that went to the Supreme Court to challenge Westminster's pushback on self ID. It was the Scottish Government that For Women Scotland challenged in the Supreme Court. It is the Scottish Government that is fighting a court case which is trying to stop trans women being held in women's prisons
These are the facts. The point I'm making is that public bodies pursuing policies like NHS Fife are firmly in line with SG priorities. Now I find the SG pursuit of these policies perplexing. But it is where we are.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2022
And I think the snp's stance has done them a bit of damage as folk push back against the bonkers idea that a geezer in a skirt is a wummin if he says so.
It won't cause them too much damage overall but it certainly backfired on them.
It won't cause them too much damage overall but it certainly backfired on them.
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
She has a wee point there.LABOUR MP Diane Abbott yesterday defended herself against charges of racism after criticising the appointment of ``blonde, blue-eyed'' Finnish nurses at her local hospital.
The black MP suggested the nurses at Homerton Hospital, Hackney, might be unfit to work in the multicultural east London borough.
Writing in her local paper, the Hackney Gazette, the MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: ``I am sure that these young women are charming. But they are basically here to improve their English and are unlikely to give the British health service a lifetime's commitment.''
Abbott denies attack on nurses was racist
LABOUR MP Diane Abbott yesterday defended herself against charges of racism after criticising the appointment of ``blonde, blue-eyed'' Finnish nurses at her local hospital.
Many healthcare professionals (that includes nurses) only come to the UK for a contract or two then move on; back to their own country or elsewhere in the world.
Likewise healthcare professionals trained here travel the world.
It's not a new thing, it's been happening for ever all over the world.
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
It's a sign of where we are that the SNP will be going to the public with a pro immigration, pro refugees and pro trans stance and will still, most likely, be the biggest party.
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- Jun 28, 2002
Sheâs still a moron.
But I agree, sheâs not alone.
Iâm surprised someone of Swinneyâs vintage is so entrenched in this insanity of pretence.
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- Jun 18, 2022
Is was a wee tad racist though Jack. Why mention the blonde hair and blue eyes?
And was she no an advocate of foreign workers coming here from the EU?
Course maybe they were the right type of workers by then.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2022
And this is from the same article in the Hackney Gazette.....
âAre Finnish girls, who may never have met a black person before, let alone touched one, best suited to nurse in multicultural Hackney?ââ
Abbott asked, expressing surprise that âblonde, blue-eyed girls from Finlandâ had been chosen rather than Caribbean nurses âwho know the language and understand British culture and institutionsââ.
www.theguardian.com
âAre Finnish girls, who may never have met a black person before, let alone touched one, best suited to nurse in multicultural Hackney?ââ
Abbott asked, expressing surprise that âblonde, blue-eyed girls from Finlandâ had been chosen rather than Caribbean nurses âwho know the language and understand British culture and institutionsââ.
Diane Abbottâs letter shows how antiracism has been reduced to decrying âwhite privilegeâ | Kenan Malik
Many of the Labour politicianâs fiercest critics pursue an equally divisive approach
www.theguardian.com
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
Who knows? Is it about not trashing Nicola's legacy. Maybe it's good to have a rammy with Westminster. Maybe they have polling that suggests it ties in certain voters. It could be he's blocked in by other elected members. Kirsty Blackman's views are well known. And I saw video posted this week by Hannah Bardell that was, let's say, out there.
But you're right, it's odd that socially conservative long term politico is locked in on this. Maybe some politically connected posters might have a view?
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
My point was all the guidelines for the way all departments are run come from the UK government, the Cabinet Office. If the Scottish Government, or any other government department, was to go out on a limb they'd get a very serious finger wiggle from the Cabinet Office.
Once the guidelines are there each department will be responsible for implementing and defending them within their area of responsibility.
The point I'm making is nothing will happen in situations like this without the say so of the Cabinet Office.
As I seem to recall the NHS in England has more than half a dozen similar cases going through the courts one way or another. I'm not sure the Scottish Government can be responsible for that. For anyone looking in a single source might be responsible for the way its turning out.
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
Admirable commitment to blaming Westminster. It falls apart when you factor in that the Scottish Government tried to fight Westminster at the Supreme Court when UKG blocked self ID.
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
Admirable defence of the UK government when it was their guidelines.
Perhaps your example is perfect for showing how far the UK government is willing to go to keep departments in line!
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
This is delusional. If what you are saying is true the Cabinet Office would have written a strongly worded letter to Alastair Jack!
I get it's difficult. I know people who think Nicola was the best thing ever in Scottish politics. They wish she was still FM. But they cannot understand her headlong dive into the trans issue and her dismissal of anyone who questioned it.
Anyway, off to focus on important matters.
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
You obviously don't know how government works I'll leave you to go and twist someone else's posts.
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
The Fife stuff yes.
The self ID is an example of where they pushed the guidance too far and got a slap.
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
So just so I'm clear, your position is that the Scottish Government pursued an extremely aggressive trans policy because of Cabinet Office guidance?
And they were so stealthy about this that it was never mentioned to anyone? And at no point did it feature in Fife's tribunal defence, which would have presumably by your reckoning been a slam dunk.
I assume the court case where the Scottish Government is arguing to put trans women in women's prisons is also down to Cabinet Office guidance?
Does none of this appear odd to you?
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2002
Thereâs a real issue here; and one I see regularly; where people have a trans relative they have a pretty singular uncompromising view
FFS.
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
I'd probably answer that in the same way as you would explaining the half a dozen or so cases that the NHS in England are defending.
Archie
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2002
I think the English cases are due to institutional capture. By the way this is West Street ING on the Darlington nurses:
Nurses meet Wes Streeting over single-sex changing rooms
Health secretary meets with nurses who have launched legal action against their NHS trust over single-sex changing rooms.
www.personneltoday.com
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
I think they're from the policies set to them by the DoH, who in turn take their policies from the Cabinet Office. Not the Scottish Government who are dealing with the same thing.I think the English cases are due to institutional capture. By the way this is West Street ING on the Darlington nurses:
Nurses meet Wes Streeting over single-sex changing rooms
Health secretary meets with nurses who have launched legal action against their NHS trust over single-sex changing rooms.
How we got here is maybe due to institutional capture. It will be the Cabinet Office to unravel their own work for the day to day issues now faced by governments and departments across the UK.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
Iâm astonished at the number of folk who want to change gender.
Never met one, but they seem to be legion.
And quite pricklyâŚâŚ
Never met one, but they seem to be legion.
And quite pricklyâŚâŚ
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2022
Sandie Peggie got a partial victory then as the worker took on the delusional bosses at NHS Fife and got a result.
Hopefully she now sues the dafties and gets decent compensation.
NHS Fife bosses should be sacked. And yes Doc take the dafties pensions and donate the cash to charity.
Hopefully she now sues the dafties and gets decent compensation.
NHS Fife bosses should be sacked. And yes Doc take the dafties pensions and donate the cash to charity.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
I suspect there might be an appeal, Jimmy. The tribunal seems to have ignored the Supreme Court FWS judgement or tried to side-step it. Be interesting to see what happens with the Darlington nurses.
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- Jun 18, 2022
Workers being persecuted by nutter bosses and there union couldnt give a toss.
Sad state of affairs.
Sad state of affairs.
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- Jun 28, 2002
We both know that's just not possible Jimmy, better to get the tar barrel and feathers out.
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- Jan 8, 2006
Have a read of the BBC report timed at 1619 on their coverage of the tribunal results. Ms Peggie is wide open to get sued by Dr. Upton herself. This has still got some time to go
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- Jun 18, 2022
I hope he does sue her because the public will then see a nurse being harassed by the bosses AND the gadgie.Have a read of the BBC report timed at 1619 on their coverage of the tribunal results. Ms Peggie is wide open to get sued by Dr. Upton herself. This has still got some time to go
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- Dec 30, 2005
Just the ones who want to become men... oh PRICKLY? Sorry, as you were.
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- Jan 8, 2006
Did you read the bit on the BBC I mentioned? Itâs the decision of the tribunal that has left the door open on it by stating that Peggie harassed Upton and that Uptonâs version was the reliable evidence.
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- Jan 31, 2008
I keep wondering why a DR was changing in the nurses changing room because as i have read and a nurse has told me, they DO NOT EVER change in the nurses gaff! So was he advised not to change in the Drâs changing room?
Didnât want to upset the apple cart in amongst his peers? Thought he was above a simple nurse?
Iâm baffled why this hasnât been mentioned
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
That IS a bit weird?
I'm a bit puzzled why evidence was given about the nurse's racist 'jokes' in the hearing.
She may well be a racist, but is that relevant to her complaint about a man in a woman's changing area?
Any correlation between the two?
Not sure about that.