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EH17 Jimmy said:
I do think the IRA cared more about their people than hamas do though.

The IRA were fighting British troops and loyalist paramilitaries.

And yep loyalist civilians got caught up in the violence.

But the loyalist paramilitaries deliberately chose to target nationalist communities.

Either way no one really wins for they? Still death and destruction for innocents.
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Loyalists were definitely worse ; basically racist / sectarian murder gangs. But the IRA absolutely targeted civilians in reprisal, rather than them being ‘caught up’. They’re all cnuts.
 
I saw a report last night that the Israelis were scrambling in response to a feared land invasion. Could be bollocks, who knows.
 
hibbybilly said:
The Israeli military said it was carrying out "extensive" strikes after talks to extend the ceasefire failed
cvnts.
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Said it before but it's a complete mess that I don't think any of understands the issues fully nor the complexities. The barbarism from both sides 'representatives' is sickening.
 
egb_hibs said:
Hamas. I suspect it means an October 7th style attack not an attempted conquest of the country

Edit - here is a report.

www.express.co.uk

Urgent meeting called by Israeli leaders over fears of 'Hamas ground invasion'

Israeli security convened an emergency meeting after "a recent unusual event that may indicate a Hamas attempt to prepare for a ground invasion into Israel"
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
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I'm not at all defending this latest Israeli response but it appears to me Israel wants their foot on the throat of Hamas as that's all that works to gain any concessions from them?

In the meantime Christians are being brutally slaughtered in public massacres in Syria with very little reporting. And on this i think Trump was right when he warned many years ago the alternative to Assad wasn't pretty....
 
Smurf said:
I'm not at all defending this latest Israeli response but it appears to me Israel wants their foot on the throat of Hamas as that's all that works to gain any concessions from them?

In the meantime Christians are being brutally slaughtered in public massacres in Syria with very little reporting. And on this i think Trump was right when he warned many years ago the alternative to Assad wasn't pretty....
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Well yes. Christian, and more than them Alawites. The regional playbook playing out. Or there is the DRC - 70 folk beheaded in a church by Islamists the other week. Loads of places, really.

Christians may be highest on the ignore list, but not much concern over Muslims either tbh, from China, Myanmar, to Syria again.

No fucks given if no Jews involved.
 
Just wonder how many were Hamas ‘fighters’ and how many were slaughtered by this brutal regime were innocents. War crime at its worst.
 
Smurf said:
No.

Just makes me chuckle a little how it's *always* apparently Israel that is the bad guys for some.
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Where have I said its always Israel? Hamas are cvnts tae. Palestinians are getting fuckin slaughtered by Israel.
Funny how Israel are always the good guys for some.
 
Spanish-hibs said:
Just wonder how many were Hamas ‘fighters’ and how many were slaughtered by this brutal regime were innocents. War crime at its worst.
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I’ve provided analysis of the ratios before and people got very annoyed. The tldr is that according to that analysis civilian casualties are low for this kind of war, and much lower than the US and UK generally dish out when bombing cities (e.g. in Iraq).
 
hibbybilly said:
Where have I said its always Israel? Hamas are cvnts tae. Palestinians are getting fuckin slaughtered by Israel.
Funny how Israel are always the good guys for some.
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I never specifically said yourself. My point is that in the main here and elsewhere online only one side is the victims. Who anywhere on here has ever implied let alone explicitly said Israel are the good guys?
 
Smurf said:
I never specifically said yourself. My point is that in the main here and elsewhere online only one side is the victims. Who anywhere on here has ever implied let alone explicitly said Israel are the good guys?
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You were replying tae my post.:102:.
I never specifically said yourself, I never said on here and I never said explicitly.
 
egb_hibs said:
I’ve provided analysis of the ratios before and people got very annoyed. The tldr is that according to that analysis civilian casualties are low for this kind of war, and much lower than the US and UK generally dish out when bombing cities (e.g. in Iraq).
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Frustrated Fah GIF by FoilArmsandHog
 
This is a senseless slaughter just like so many before it. As usual the innocent civilians bear the cost of their leaders barbarism. Utterly tragic that it just seems to carry on like it has for centuries. Good point re the Muslims being slaughtered its never mentioned as with Yemen. Utterly depressing to think of the suffering these folk go through. Man's inhumanity to man seems never ending.
 
egb_hibs said:
What can I say? Its not enough for it simply to be horrible and brutal. Some people really strongly need it to be a 'unique evil' it seems.
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its sadly far from unique. Your stats even if they are accurate seem to me to seek mitigation or perhaps to even excuse the slaughter. I cant think of the mass killing of civilians in accountancy terms. We've been over why Israel/Palestine is unique in many senses many times - you take a reductionist logic to explaining that, i say its more complex - we can disagree, its good to be challenged. I'm allowed to challenge back though without you always playing the jew hater card
 
gun ainm said:
its sadly far from unique. Your stats even if they are accurate seem to me to seek mitigation or perhaps to even excuse the slaughter.
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No, the point was to put it into context on a thread where they have indeed been described as a unique evil. Not by you obvs. And there are many more people who seem to believe Israel’s approach is distinctively barbaric.
gun ainm said:
I cant think of the mass killing of civilians in accountancy terms. We've been over why Israel/Palestine is unique in many senses many times - you take a reductionist logic to explaining that, i say its more complex - we can disagree, its good to be challenged.
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It’s enormously complex. It’s not the likes of me that avoid that.
gun ainm said:
I'm allowed to challenge back though without you always playing the jew hater card
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I would never accuse you of that. I wouldn’t accuse others here of it.

I absolutely think the obsessive coverage, and plenty of things that go with it, are products of Jew hatred though and I think people are affected by that.

If the casualties of any other conflict where relentlessly tweeted into people’s consciousness, accompanied by a demonising rhetoric, I think it would affect people just the same. That doesn’t happen though because there is not a vast, decentralised effort to do it. That campaign at its heart is a product of Jew hatred, then picked up an amplified as any social media phenomenon is.
 
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egb_hibs said:
What can I say? Its not enough for it simply to be horrible and brutal. Some people really strongly need it to be a 'unique evil' it seems.
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Nope. You made the original point to, ahem, point score. It was probably your shittest ever post. That you doubled down on it, well....
 
emerald green said:
Nope. You made the original point to, ahem, point score. It was probably your shittest ever post. That you doubled down on it, well....
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Nah. What other subject would have people outraged at the introduction of facts - or at least an attempt to gather them - to balance out a two minute hate? That’s what happened.

Why would you describe that as my shittest post ever with such a banquet to pick from? Why are facts so offensive? As with gun ainm I don’t for one moment suspect you of hatred. I do suspect that you have been affected by a relentless propaganda wall in respect of the situation.

If people were relentlessly exposed to the victims of conflict in Syria (or take your pick) and it was accompanied by a simplistic narrative that presented it as unique, and which legitimised the human appetite for putting the boot in while feeling righteous about it, the results would be the same I fully expect. On top of that, this thread is not just populated by more discerning types such as you and gun ainm, but by people swallowing and regurgitating overtly anti semitic tosh. And that is why facts are important - or particularly so anyway, their general importance should speak for itself.
 
egb_hibs said:
Nah. What other subject would have people outraged at the introduction of facts - or at least an attempt to gather them - to balance out a two minute hate? That’s what happened.

Why would you describe that as my shittest post ever with such a banquet to pick from? Why are facts so offensive? As with gun ainm I don’t for one moment suspect you of hatred. I do suspect that you have been affected by a relentless propaganda wall in respect of the situation.
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Its wasnt "the facts" as such. It was what you were posting these for. It was frankly beneath you. Dont suspect anything about me. It was awful on your part. Is what it is. You cannae be at the top of your game all the time. We know what you were trying to say though, but lets not try and revisit it on the basis that you did some indepth analysis
 
emerald green said:
Its wasnt "the facts" as such. It was what you were posting these for. It was frankly beneath you. Dont suspect anything about me. It was awful on your part. Is what it is. You cannae be at the top of your game all the time. We know what you were trying to say though, but lets not try and revisit it on the basis that you did some indepth analysis
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I didn’t do an in depth analysis or any analysis at all; I provided links to efforts to do so, with a commentary summarising the contents. On a thread riddled with anti semitic tropes, conspiracy theory and citation of hooky stats from Hamas, it remains strange to me that you find that post notably ‘awful’ and that you want to concoct a motive for me. Once more it is not you posting that stuff, but I’m surprised that a relatively simple reference to a data analysis is so offensive within that context.

My motive was in fact straightforward; to try to bring facts - or an attempt to gather them - to a debate where people are apparently having their perspective influenced by propaganda rooted in hatred. That kind of thing should be beneath no one.
 
egb_hibs said:
I didn’t do an in depth analysis or any analysis at all; I provided links to efforts to do so, with a commentary summarising the contents. On a thread riddled with anti semitic tropes, conspiracy theory and citation of hooky stats from Hamas, it remains strange to me that you find that post notably ‘awful’ and that you want to concoct a motive for me. Once more it is not you posting that stuff, but I’m surprised that a relatively simple reference to a data analysis is so offensive within that context.
My motive was in fact straightforward; to try to bring facts - or an attempt to gather them - to a debate where people are apparently having their perspective influenced by propaganda rooted in hatred. That kind of thing should be beneath no one.
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You posted it because people were apparently having their perspective influenced by propoganda rooted in hatred. Aye ok.

just own it mate, no rewrite it! . Your post was look the jews arenae as bad is being made oot, theyve only slaughtered this many.

I paraphrase :coffee1:
 
emerald green said:
You posted it because people were apparently having their perspective influenced by propoganda rooted in hatred. Aye ok.
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Yes
emerald green said:
just own it mate, no rewrite it! . Your post was look the jews arenae as bad is being made oot, theyve only slaughtered this many.

I paraphrase :coffee1:
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You do indeed.

I absolutely do ‘own’ challenging the Nazi trope that Israel is a ‘unique evil’. The only forms of prejudice that are really dangerous are acceptable ones. While others see racists under the bed, anti semitism is the only kind acceptable in the UK. That the former preoccupation is encouraged by largely the same processes that encourage the latter is telling.

Once more, it isn’t you that posts these things but it continues to seem strange to me that you are apparently more troubled by an attempt to show facts, than by the innumerable hooky stats, conspiratorial claims and regurgitated tropes that pepper this thread.

There is not a lot left to say, we just differ on this I guess. But I hope there will never come a day when I embrace the post truth tendency for narratives over attempts to understand the facts of the matter; never mind propaganda ingested from Nazis and Islamists via the far left.
 
egb_hibs said:
I absolutely do ‘own’ challenging the Nazi trope that Israel is a ‘unique evil’.
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Yeah, Thats not a thing on this thread. Not in the slightest.
egb_hibs said:
The only forms of prejudice that are really dangerous are acceptable ones. While others see racists under the bed, anti semitism is the only kind acceptable in the UK.
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This is just rubbish made up in your head. Insinuating bouncers have this prejudice is quite insulting. Perhaps there is a prejudice on your part? Is that too far fetched? You pepper the thread with a defense of Israel, much more than anyone Ive seen defending Palestine. Thats my observation btw, dont get too hung up on that.
egb_hibs said:
Once more, it isn’t you that posts these things but it continues to seem strange to me that you are apparently more troubled by an attempt to show facts, than by the innumerable hooky stats, conspiratorial claims and regurgitated tropes that pepper this thread.
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You posted, at the time to back up your stance on Iraael, that they were not as bad as everyone was making out because see they have only killed this amount. THAT was your stance. You had a mare mate, and you were called out by a few because of it. It was clumsy on your part.
egb_hibs said:
There is not a lot left to say, we just differ on this I guess. But I hope there will never come a day when I embrace the post truth tendency for narratives over attempts to understand the facts of the matter; never mind propaganda ingested from Nazis and Islamists via the far left.
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Of ffs.

Its fine mate. You had a mare. Accept it and move on. Just dinnae try and change the narrative 6 months doon the line
 
I specifically said I don’t believe anyone here to be driven by hate or prejudice. But i do think people are influenced by dominant narratives which originate from those who are.

That clarification made, I’ll leave it there. My original post is still on the thread if anyone chooses to read it, and is not as you describe.
 
egb_hibs said:
I specifically said I don’t believe anyone here to be driven by hate or prejudice. But i do think people are influenced by dominant narratives which originate from those who are.

That clarification made, I’ll leave it there. My original post is still on the thread if anyone chooses to read it, and is not as you describe.
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yep, you me, even ryan.
 
Smurf said:
I'm not at all defending this latest Israeli response but it appears to me Israel wants their foot on the throat of Hamas as that's all that works to gain any concessions from them?

In the meantime Christians are being brutally slaughtered in public massacres in Syria with very little reporting. And on this i think Trump was right when he warned many years ago the alternative to Assad wasn't pretty....
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This thread is about Isreal not whataboutary.
 
Watching the news and the bairns injured and killed, Mothers losing 2 or 3 kids at a time. Horrible.
Fuck you Israel ya cvnt
 
egb_hibs said:
No, the point was to put it into context on a thread where they have indeed been described as a unique evil. Not by you obvs. And there are many more people who seem to believe Israel’s approach is distinctively barbaric.
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Perhaps in an effort to counterbalance what you see as unfair scrutiny you run the risk of downplaying the atrocities. I honestly can't relate to the argument you put forward here, I get your point O just can't see it in those terms

egb_hibs said:
It’s enormously complex. It’s not the likes of me that avoid that.

I would never accuse you of that. I wouldn’t accuse others here of it.
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Thanks
egb_hibs said:
I absolutely think the obsessive coverage, and plenty of things that go with it, are products of Jew hatred though and I think people are affected by that.
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People on this thread? It sounds a bit patronising tbh M, like it's only you who can see the hidden hand of anti-Semitism
 
Findlayhibby said:
This thread is about Isreal not whataboutary.
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Its not whatabootery, its a valid point.Have you been on marches protesting about the massacres and treatment of Christians in Syria, Pakistan and other Muslim countries. Have you been on marches protesting at the treatment of uighers and other minorities in china. Have you been on marches protesting about the illegal invasion of Ukraine and the killing of thousands of Ukrainians, or are you just an anti semitic racist?
 
A British national is amongst the dead from yesterdays murders.
 
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