Ukraine.

Tam has lived in Lieghton Buzzard since 1968. Keeping the Hibs flag flying couldnae have been easy. Everyone there over 4 decades he has been in contact with has kent about the Hibs though, beleive me.

Ye can take a Hibee out of Leith......or my amigos from Perth, Glasgow, Ireland, Wales,.Australia the U.S. the Netherlands and beyond. Bless them all.

What's this to do with the situation in the Ukraine?

Well my beautiful brother Tam has a totally different opinion to me about this situation, as my above Hibees amigos mentioned may also do or not.
Don't lose the fact that we are all on here for one fundamental reason the love of our fitba team. Differences are healthy on any subject and should be welcomed in healthy debate.
I'm not going to lose pals over my opinions. If so it's ok with me.
I'll kick off with this and await a battering. I'm auld and daft enough to take it. I however think that this is an utterly brilliant analysis of the overall situation.
Brilliant but perhaps not to the liking of many. Truth sometimes is uncomfortable.


BIG G
You know what I think of that rag so consider yourself battered.
Like you I hope we can have differences of opinion without falling out and throwing personal insults at each other,ya daft auld Marxist knob
 
You know what I think of that rag so consider yourself battered.
Like you I hope we can have differences of opinion without falling out and throwing personal insults at each other,ya daft auld Marxist knob
Thank you amigo.
Yesterday I listened with interest to Max Hastings, historian and no friend of mines.This uber Conservative came to similar conclusions as this rag, though from a different angle of support.
He pointed out correctly that the US, which is fundamentally NATO, made a major blunder in its building up military forces on Russia's border over the past period.
He is not the only person to see that error which has resulted in this human catastrophe.
I resubmit here previously by another poster davhfc. Recorded in February before the invasion.

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Who is this guy Tony. A supporter of the rag you hate? A Marxist bam? A red ? I think not he is a Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago. He served 5 years as an Officer in the US Air Force, however he comes to many of the conclusions that your favourite rag has. Like Max Hastings has. However unlike Socialist Appeal neither would subscribe to the Socialist transformation of Society I can say with some confidence.

BIG G
 
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On every level this is a horrible situation made worse by not actually knowing the reality of the situation. I feel desperately for the Ukrainians and the west to me is not doing enough to help them. It aims to me were willing to sacrifice thousands maybe hundreds of thousands to not directly combat the Russians. If they attack Finland what next. Every day we hear of yet more sanctions. Will it stop putin. I think we know the answer to that.
I agree totally that the msm in Britain is a fecking disgrace where we give airtime to a club who never would have been a top team bar horribly crooked money( same as man City and soon to be newcastle). They have got all moral over Chelsea but not a peep about man City or sheik Mohammed in horse racing. Utter,utter hypocrisy.
The media treat this war as an exciting news story as thousands die horribly and God knows how many will die of starvation.
They don't reflect the values of anybody I'm friendly with but do know a few nutters who swallow the lies they are taught. The fact that muppet Johnson can lie about us taking in more refugees than anybody else and nobody bats an eyelid. How low have we sunk in gb when this is allowed to stand.
I've no doubt that if one of the bigot bros had investment from Russia it would be front page news which says it all about Scottish society. I don't listened or watch sportscene and get my news and updates on here. I've given up on .net but that's another long post another day. Back to the horrible situation in Ukraine. I feel terrible that I'm peebles to help and sending money,while helpful I'm sure,seems futile given the overwhelming size of the Russian army.
One last thing of somehow putin being got to. I was watching the courier last night,tremendous film btw,benidict bloody awesome in it as were the whole cast, and the it shows the power of the kgb which I'm sure is as strong as ever. To bring down putin you have to bring down the whole system. I hope desperately I'm wrong here but just can't see it happening. My love and admiration for the Ukraines is beyond words and would welcome them into my house. Hang your head in shame if you think otherwise. When Russia attacked Ukraine they attacked the west IMHO.
I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime and reading how we only won the battle of Britain due to the tremendous skill and bravery of polish and Czech pilots adding to our numbers meantcwe won in the end. We sit here fretting about the cost of petrol and goods. The Ukrainians worry about their survival as a nation. What a horrible world we live in with Trump still out thete and the most corrupt British govt by a country mile ever. It says something that Hungary helps so much and we do so little. I pray for ikraine every day and I gave up on religion years ago. As for their leader. Just amazing and compared to ours. I'm not even going to go there.
 
Apologies for poor spelling but been itching to post for ages. The reaction of the eu is interesting and something I never saw coming. Greatest sadness for me is seeing the future of the west being decided with gb nowhere near the decisions. Plus how worrying is the massive rearming of Germany and huge increase in France. Not assuming anything but its time for a wee think about what's going on.
 
Apologies for poor spelling but been itching to post for ages. The reaction of the eu is interesting and something I never saw coming. Greatest sadness for me is seeing the future of the west being decided with gb nowhere near the decisions. Plus how worrying is the massive rearming of Germany and huge increase in France. Not assuming anything but its time for a wee think about what's going on.
If you want to know and why things are really going on amigo, read


From post #758

Watch the America gadgies video above too.

BIG G
 
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I've seen through capitalism a long time ago. How we change things is another matter. The right have successfully got folk thinking only about their inner circle. Getting everybody to care about their whole community is a massive task. God knows how it can be achieved.
 
Funny most folk get more right wing the older they get allegedly judging by many on here the reverse is true me very much included. Can't stand society now where norms and any sort of standards go out the window in the pursuit of more profit. Shocking and depressing.
 
Great piece Gordon Smith. I agree with the vast majority of it but not the solution. We must get everybody's buy in to change society. Otherwise we force our views on others. I agree wholeheartedly re starmer but it's him or Doris right now and we'd still have him instead of the cesspit that is the tories.
Changing hearts and minds will only papped if the mum is changed and social media. I'm in total agreement re breaking up capitalism.
 
Another night of shelling on the cities of Ukraine.--It would be folly to suggest that Ukranian soldiers are not dying, of course they are. But the largest amount of shelling is done on normal commercial and residential areas. It does make me wonder exactly what Russia are trying to achieve. They may in the end take over the East of Ukraine, but at what cost? There is going to be very little left of the cities and I suspect that is why Kiev so far has not came under intense bombing. Putin wants to show the Russians that he has brought about the de-Nazification of Ukraine and he wants his flag to fly over the capital. This could prove very difficult if the capital is raized to the ground. Also if Russia take over, where is the money coming to rebuild the country for these poor Russian speakers who have been abused by Ukranian speakers? As the war drags on it is becoming increasingly difficult for Moscow's lies to be believable, except within Russia where they are fed a diet of vitriolic claptrap.

Big G in the article he has quoted raises many good points and I have said all along neither side (East/West) can claim the moral high ground. Mind you I do find it difficult to listen to accusations of Imperialism and Capitalism aimed only at the west when we see hundreds of billionaires within the Russian sphere of influence who made money on the back of de-nationalisation of the Soviet empire. And that Moscow has intervened in several conflicts as well as showing their own aggressive stance on any country who dared have a mind of their own to want a different future for themselves. Think about the recent polls in Belarus which were widely believed to be fixed in favour of Lukashenko. Mass protests ensued but the working class people which Big G is so keen to defend where brutally put down and imprisoned with the full backing of Putin and his heavies.


Anyway to latest developments.

Ukraine has decided to roll over and let Russia walk all over them and be submissive to all their generous demands. They have apologised for daring to have minds of heir own and will compensate Russia by handing over all them many resources they have in their country free of charge.



And meanwhile in the real world, Ukraine continues to suffer casualties but do not give up, not even in the besieged city of Maripu where Angels must be guarding.

In the Suny region 3 enemy tanks and 1 self propelled anti aircraft installation was destroyed.

Reports that Ukranian prisoners are humiliated, whilst Russian prisoners have been treated well, however I expect some of that tolerance will not be shown to Russian artillery forces.

Another SU-34 was shot down.

Claims that Russia intend to cause a fire or explosion at a nuclear reactor facility and blame it on Ukraine.

Dnipro ir under shelling now, we pray for the safety of the orphanages there which Hibs supporters are well aquainted with

Chernihiv is also without water, heat and gas and engineers are working to try and restore some power.

230 educational institutions have been destroyed

At least 79 children have been killed so far

Israel prime min
minister urged Zelenska to accept Russias terms of surrender..the reply...I heard you!


2.3m have now left Ukraine


Artillery of the 128th seperate mountain brigade of the Transcarpathian brigade have attacked an airfied used by Russians and destroyed several vehicles and at least 2 tanks.

Another big wig gone from Russian forces, A Lietenant colonel was captured and is alive.


Reported combat losses of Russia (as given by Ukranian defence is as follows

personnel 12k plus

Tanks 362

Armoured combat vehicles 1205

Artillery systems 135

MLRS 62

Air defence means 33

Aircraft 58

helicopters 83

automative vehicles 585

boats 3

UAVs of operational or tactical level 7



Of course stats cannot be verified and there is also a likelihood the number is higher
 
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That’s an interesting comment about the Israelis🤔. Let’s not forget Priti Patel’s previous involvement with the Israeli government and now we see how she and that fuckin toad Boris (isn’t that a common Russian name?) are doing everything to hamper fleeing refugees. She’s instructed by Mossad in my opinion.
There’s bigger schemes afoot here than just east v west.
 
Ukraine claim to have destroyed 31 battle groups...13 completely.

Still prisoners come in groups rather than individuals claiming they were told they would be welcomed with open arms and cheering crowds..the reality is somewhat different
 
I'll kick off with this and await a battering. I'm auld and daft enough to take it. I however think that this is an utterly brilliant analysis of the overall situation.
Brilliant but perhaps not to the liking of many. Truth sometimes is uncomfortable.


BIG G
I'll bite (as per usual!).

This article actually reminded me of that famous line in Hamlet:

I do know,
When the blood burns, how prodigal the soul
Lends the tongue vows: these blazes, daughter,
Giving more light than heat, extinct in both,
Even in their promise, as it is a-making,
You must not take for fire.


A load of angry shouting about "imperialist gangsters" etc. The usual lists of all the other lefties who're just not quite right in their approach/thinking. And a lot of calls for "analysis", "exposing of hypocrisy", the "having of a class understanding", the "duty to tell the working class the truth" (because of course, the authors and their acolytes are just magically able to see that truth when no one else can), and the "preparation of the [presumably bovine] working class." In other words, the standard ranting Marxist playbook.

And what are these devastating truths? Nuggets such as "What determines the attitude of the imperialists is their material power, incomes, privileges and prestige" -- well, no shit, Sherlock! Incredible, that had never even occurred to me! Glad I had a Marxist to "explain" it to me. This is the level of "analysis" that can only be enabled by an "internationalist perspective." Honestly, geez peace.

They've furthermore got the front to claim that the pacifist approach is "completely utopian." Correct; however, pot, meet kettle. Because what is the only alternative solution suggested in this article, like literally the only thing that even approaches something remotely resembling an alternative proposition to any of the other approaches angrily trashed throughout:

"...a real, serious revolutionary social programme, capable of rallying the working class and the oppressed. The solution to the problem of war, of national antagonisms, and the crimes of imperialism, can only be found in the overthrow of capitalism, and the creation of a democratic World Federation of Socialist States. This is the only real, lasting solution to world problems and conflicts."

If that's not "utopian," then I don't know what is. Show me this programme, then? Because it's my understanding that Marxists/Communists/Leninists/Stalinists/Trotskyists/socialists/whatever have been trying to find one that actually works, and indeed doesn't (a) require slavish groupthink and (b) lead to a pile-up of bodies that would make the Nazis blush, for about 150 years now. The fact remains: Marxist theory and its attendant "revolutionary social programmes" simply can't account for and reconcile the inherent greed, competitive drive, and corruptibility of humans, as has been amply and ironically demonstrated by its most famous proponents down the years. It requires a perfect world of perfect moral actors, where everyone wants to be perfectly equal. Good luck with that.

Want a really uncomfortable truth? The further fact remains: on balance, the countries in which democratic post-war capitalism pertain -- including our own -- are as good as it's ever got, anywhere, any time, in the entire history of the planet in terms of peace and health. (Disagree? Then name your place and era in rejoinder.)

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that this form of capitalism isn't nevertheless plagued with iniquity and injustices. It is. Nor that there aren't still a great many "losers". There undoubtedly are. Nor that war remains a reality. It does. Nor that I have the answers or hold the key to evolving it further to the good. I don't. I wholeheartedly wish I did, or that someone could come up with them.

But spare me the tired, simplistic old Marxist shite contained in that article -- it's never worked, will never work, and it doesn't actually help anyone to keep wishing it would, other than to afford its exponents the warm, fuzzy feeling of righteous moral superiority.
 
Video of a russian soldier with a grenade launcher shackled by the ankle to a post so he could not run off in the heat of battle..well that worked...he froze to death!

Another 2 copters shot down, one pilot survived over Kherson


In Bashtansky russian troops have been hemmed into an area where they cannot manoeuvre due to Ukranians destroying pontoon bridges on either side.
 
The wee bakery in Deanston Drive in Shawlands (only around a mile from Easter Road West) had a day last Sunday when they don't usually open to try and raise funds for Ukraine. The queues were literally round the block and everything was gone except for the coffee so that's what we had and told them we would be back over soon (we stay about eight miles away).
Headed over again yesterday early afternoon and there was still a decent queue and managed to but the last pastry. Spoke to Yuriy who's family run the bakery and he apologised for not having enough stock! I said we would be back and that what he was doing was great - he told me they have raised £80000!
This whole attack situation is so sad and overwhelming.
 
I see Bob a job Geldof did another one of his 'give us your fucking money' jobs at the Roundhouse the other night.I'd like to get the picture of him,Bono,and Blair standing chummy as fuck with Putin and project it onto the side of Parliament.Hypocritical fucks the lot of them.
 
The wee bakery in Deanston Drive in Shawlands (only around a mile from Easter Road West) had a day last Sunday when they don't usually open to try and raise funds for Ukraine. The queues were literally round the block and everything was gone except for the coffee so that's what we had and told them we would be back over soon (we stay about eight miles away).
Headed over again yesterday early afternoon and there was still a decent queue and managed to but the last pastry. Spoke to Yuriy who's family run the bakery and he apologised for not having enough stock! I said we would be back and that what he was doing was great - he told me they have raised £80000!
This whole attack situation is so sad and overwhelming.
I’m in that area a few times a week jack, what’s it called?
 
Sad news that a convoy of woman and children were fired on in the green corridor near kiev as they were evacuating. At least 6 adults died and one child and many wounded..

Will Russians be able to travel without facing shame after this war?
 
So lazy saying their is no alternative to capitalism. There bloody well is but folk are too self centred and selfish to want to change it. As my dad used to say as long as the working man can afford a few pints he'll never moan. Strangely accurate don't you think. As for many losers. The understatement of the decade. To simply accept a corrupt, nepotism,class ridden entitled society as the best we can have is an utterly depressing thought. There is more to it than just inequalities but sure as he'll isn't a level playing field for millions. As Craig and Charlie said I can't understand how we let someone else rule our land cap in hand.
 
Striking victory for Russian forces, claiming to have taken control of Surovtsevka. The village has 3 houses and was last known to be inhabited by 8 residents in 2001! 2 days to take kiev didn't quite work, 2 weeks to take 8 people must be awesome :lauff:


Mariupol defenders despite low on everything managed to thwart an attack taking out 15 attackers and causing the rest to flee

After kidnapping the local mayor of Militopol, Russia have installed their own mayor Galina Danilchanko who was a local deputy.

The Belarusan military are reported to be ignoring their president and refusing to take part in the war. Russia are reported to be sending their own Commanders to take control of units.

Information that Russia wants to hold a referendum in Kherson, locals refuse to take part. Russia might try to stage a mock referendum but it will fool no one except the Russian people.
 
Here is a video showing that troops are trying to be on the front foot..also a reminder of the reality that it is not just writing in a newspaper. I have not put a video on with people being killed or lying dead which there are many around

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Let's not forget about the rich while the troops get out of date food

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What do young Russians think?


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It's not just Ukraine people are leaving.

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And finally one to bring some balance. Crimea is the main contested area. It appears Russia wanted it to be their resort area again and many (though I don't believe 95%) wanted to be part of Russia. But it does bring a little of the opposite version to the table. Remember I mentioned the dam which Ukraine blocked some time ago>


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I'll bite (as per usual!).

This article actually reminded me of that famous line in Hamlet:

I do know,
When the blood burns, how prodigal the soul
Lends the tongue vows: these blazes, daughter,
Giving more light than heat, extinct in both,
Even in their promise, as it is a-making,
You must not take for fire.


A load of angry shouting about "imperialist gangsters" etc. The usual lists of all the other lefties who're just not quite right in their approach/thinking. And a lot of calls for "analysis", "exposing of hypocrisy", the "having of a class understanding", the "duty to tell the working class the truth" (because of course, the authors and their acolytes are just magically able to see that truth when no one else can), and the "preparation of the [presumably bovine] working class." In other words, the standard ranting Marxist playbook.

And what are these devastating truths? Nuggets such as "What determines the attitude of the imperialists is their material power, incomes, privileges and prestige" -- well, no shit, Sherlock! Incredible, that had never even occurred to me! Glad I had a Marxist to "explain" it to me. This is the level of "analysis" that can only be enabled by an "internationalist perspective." Honestly, geez peace.

They've furthermore got the front to claim that the pacifist approach is "completely utopian." Correct; however, pot, meet kettle. Because what is the only alternative solution suggested in this article, like literally the only thing that even approaches something remotely resembling an alternative proposition to any of the other approaches angrily trashed throughout:

"...a real, serious revolutionary social programme, capable of rallying the working class and the oppressed. The solution to the problem of war, of national antagonisms, and the crimes of imperialism, can only be found in the overthrow of capitalism, and the creation of a democratic World Federation of Socialist States. This is the only real, lasting solution to world problems and conflicts."

If that's not "utopian," then I don't know what is. Show me this programme, then? Because it's my understanding that Marxists/Communists/Leninists/Stalinists/Trotskyists/socialists/whatever have been trying to find one that actually works, and indeed doesn't (a) require slavish groupthink and (b) lead to a pile-up of bodies that would make the Nazis blush, for about 150 years now. The fact remains: Marxist theory and its attendant "revolutionary social programmes" simply can't account for and reconcile the inherent greed, competitive drive, and corruptibility of humans, as has been amply and ironically demonstrated by its most famous proponents down the years. It requires a perfect world of perfect moral actors, where everyone wants to be perfectly equal. Good luck with that.

Want a really uncomfortable truth? The further fact remains: on balance, the countries in which democratic post-war capitalism pertain -- including our own -- are as good as it's ever got, anywhere, any time, in the entire history of the planet in terms of peace and health. (Disagree? Then name your place and era in rejoinder.)

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that this form of capitalism isn't nevertheless plagued with iniquity and injustices. It is. Nor that there aren't still a great many "losers". There undoubtedly are. Nor that war remains a reality. It does. Nor that I have the answers or hold the key to evolving it further to the good. I don't. I wholeheartedly wish I did, or that someone could come up with them.

But spare me the tired, simplistic old Marxist shite contained in that article -- it's never worked, will never work, and it doesn't actually help anyone to keep wishing it would, other than to afford its exponents the warm, fuzzy feeling of righteous moral superiority.
I wish I was as erudite as yourself in putting across my arguments instead of just saying " bollocks" to big G's marxist ramblings.
 
Up to 80 marines refused to take part in hostilities against Ukraine after landing in Kherson region

The three hour drive to Mariupol has been 8 hours so far for humanitarian convoy...it is reported Russian forces have "taken control of it" let;s see if it arrives

Video of a shell blowing up on a busy road in Kiev, miraculously it appears to have hit grass between two roads and cars may have escaped the worst of it

A website has been set up for Russian and Belarusian soldiers informing them how they can surrender or even switch sides, it is in 4 languages

Israel intelligence claims Russian federation are building a military contingent in Brest. (I am confused at this as Brest is in France so please do help me out)

VPN use in Russia increased 1268% in a week (using proxy IP addresses to access external sites)
 
Israel intelligence claims Russian federation are building a military contingent in Brest. (I am confused at this as Brest is in France so please do help me out)
It's more than likely the Brest in Belarus mate
 
I wish I was as erudite as yourself in putting across my arguments instead of just saying " bollocks" to big G's marxist ramblings.
Least you know what erudite means..I don't :eek:...edit..didn't
 
The further fact remains: on balance, the countries in which democratic post-war capitalism pertain -- including our own -- are as good as it's ever got, anywhere, any time, in the entire history of the planet in terms of peace and health. (Disagree? Then name your place and era in rejoinder.)
If you want to look at the entire history of the planet, I'd suggest the tens and tens of thousands of years when our ancestors lived as small groups of co-operative nomadic hunter-gatherers were by far the most peaceful and healthy period of human history. Better than say the democratic post-war capitalist north of Ireland in the 1970s.
 
Confirmation of Russian troops taking supplies from humanitarian convoy to Mariupol...hopefully the buses willl still be used to evacuate r2sidents.

Defenders inflicting heavy losses on invaders at Chrnihiv. Tanks and other military vehicles and artillery unit which was firing on the city

Another Russian command post also destroyed...no news as to location yet.

Russian shelling in Svyatogorsk lavra in Donesk region hit a building with woman and children. Many injuries reported.
 
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If you want to look at the entire history of the planet, I'd suggest the tens and tens of thousands of years when our ancestors lived as small groups of co-operative nomadic hunter-gatherers were by far the most peaceful and healthy period of human history. Better than say the democratic post-war capitalist north of Ireland in the 1970s.
Possibly a rather romantic view, we'll never know. I always thought tribes knocked fuck out of each other and took who was left as slaves.

In which era would you prefer to live?
 
Possibly a rather romantic view, we'll never know. I always thought tribes knocked fuck out of each other and took who was left as slaves.

In which era would you prefer to live?
You are referring to a later era. To answer your question with another question, I wonder if say the indigenous inhabitants of Australia were happier before Captain Cook arrived or after?
 
Funny how folk are so stupid are of Marxists but accept a govt giving £37billion in contracts to its pals who never even supplied the goods. What a fucked up country we live in when just accept that. I wonder if Labour did that what would have happened. Historians in year to come will IMHO look upon the last five years as some of the worst in the last 60 years for the collapsing of any accountable govt.
 
It's more than likely the Brest in Belarus mate
Dinamo Brest stayed at our hotel in Athens on the day of the Tripolis game as they had a game in Athens that night. I spoke to one of their players thinking he was scottish as their training tops were the same as Scotland gear apart from the badge. Assumed he was a Hibee
 
Lviv now being attacked. Looks like there will be no safe place in all of Ukraine.
Appears Russia has extended their war of fear and panic amongst the wider population as their plans are not going well. Unlikely to win the the popularity vote.

lans for 1500 marines to be sent from ships in the black sea to bolster units struggling to make inroads.

2 fighter planes and 2 helicopters downed in last 24 hours.

Heavy bombing by Russians in many areas, Gas treatment unit hit by missiles in the Kharkiv region

There is a mass attack on Zaporizhzhya region, the defenders are so far holding their ground

Enemy supply convoy was captured in full

electronic warfare complex (armoured vehicle) changed hands and will be used in defence of Ukraine now

Airport at Ivano-Frankivsk in the West of Ukraine is pretty much destroyed

A train evacuating civilians from Donbas was hit by shelling, one conductor died and a second is in hospital

Where people have tried evacuating on green corridors without red cross support they are shot at by Russian troops

Nato have threatened to step up if any of their supply vehicles of weapons are attacked en route to Ukraine

The first woman to be given the honour of hero of Ukraine was given posthumously to senior combat medic Inna Derusova who saved more than 10 servicemen whilst risking her own life in the Sumy region. She died of an artillery attack.

There are virtually no attempts by authorities and civilians to work with Russian occupiers within the Southern regions

A residential building was hit from the 2nd to 9th floor in Chernihiv, at least one person died

Another mayor, this time of Dniprorudny, Eugene Matveev was kidnapped

Shelling of Lysychansk, Severodonetsk and Rubizhne hit around 22 multi storey, 33 private houses, one state institutional building, one power sub station, one trade and one enterprise establishment...All military targets of course :sleep:

A green corridor has opened today in the Luhansk region today

Hopes for an end to the war with another round of talks due

Ukraine paralympics team came 2nd with 11 gold, 10 silver and 8 bronze. Plenty sounds of their national anthem

Japan's prime minister has asked for reforms of the UN council over Russias attack

The 18th night of hostilities and Russian forces have still not captured any key city