Ukraine.

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Davy said:
Bosnia seems to be next one to kick off. Instability is what Putin wants
Click to expand...
A lot of countries ministers around Russia are getting very concerned, some asking the question 'whose next', Putins going to destabilise more than Ukraine with a war.
 
joethehibby said:
Dont know what the ratio is , but does part of the ukraine not want to be part of russia (i.e.separitists)or is it a massive minority ?
Click to expand...
If your talking about the now annexed Crimea "Crimea is a centre of pro-Russian sentiment. The region – a peninsula on Ukraine's Black Sea coast – has 2.3 million inhabitants, the majority of whom identify themselves as ethnic Russians and speak Russian"
joethehibby said:
Dont know what the ratio is , but does part of the ukraine not want to be part of russia (i.e.separitists)or is it a massive minority ?
Click to expand...
Your correct

BIG G
 
I posted this on the Bounce 8 years ago. Recently the MSM and apparently folk on here, seem to have forgotten what happened in those years between then and now. The article is even more poignant and prophetic now as it was then.

Resorting to good guy, bad guy is neither helpful, nor in any way analitically correct in my opinion.

www.socialist.net

Russia, Ukraine, and the West: Will there be war? | The Communist

As Ukraine slides deeper into chaos, the sound of war drums gets ever louder. The tension between the Russians, Americans, and Europeans increases by the hour. Alan Woods analyses the sabre rattling surrounding Ukraine and discusses the future facing the Ukrainian people.
www.socialist.net www.socialist.net

BIG G
 
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One thing for sure Big G is that in any conflict we rarely hear the truth or at least a neutral point of view. What you posted has many valid points and does stand off from both the Russian and American position highlighting the interests of both. However again it is from your own socialist/Marxist point of view and therefore is never going to be completely unbiased, it does however touch on points that other sides conveniently leave out.
I would hate to live in an area like the Crimea. It is the buffer zone between the new East and West line. I think you are correct in saying the majority of the people there wish now to come under Russian authority, however that is not without qualification.
Firstly, yes there is a majority of Russian speakers and many do feel part of Russia as their relatives may also live in Russia and for a lot of people growing up Russia was all they knew. A lot of people (also in many of the former USSR states have a rather tainted romantic rememberence of the days when they were guaranteed a job at least and hark back to these days, forgetting some of the harsh realities and lack of real opportunity)

It should be noted that just because someone speaks Russian it does not mean they wish to be part of modern day Russia. Most of Kiev speak Russian but have little desire to be run by Moscow. A lot of people were pro-Ukranian in the Crimean region, most of these people have been forced to flee or fled of their own choice, choosing not to be part of Russia's new empire. That in itself has caused a percentage shift in pro-Russian voters and after the annexation of Crimea there was a vote on being part of Russia where I think the majority was over 70% The Tatars of course do not want to be part of Russia and in fact have a far more historical claim on Crimea than either Russia or Ukraine. They make up around 230k of the population but could be more, there is also a very sizeable number in Turkey and other countries, perhaps eclipsing this number in Crimea. That more Tatars are/were returning to Crimea would certainly cause a shift in the balance and move closer towards 50% on either side of the fence. It must be noted here that many Crimeans and other Eastern residents have simply tired of the whole situation and just want someone, anyone to take some control and bring peace and stability. This as you say is unlikely to happen any time soon as both Russia and USA play out their war games on a worldwide stage. But however you look at it, we see that the majority Russian sentiment in the region is only marginally higher than Ukranian or independent sentiment and however this all lands, there is going to be over 40% of people deprived of their choice of government at the very least.

So to the question of East/West defences. Yes I think it is correct Russia should be worried about the increasing reach of Nato. By the same token USA are concerned about the reach of Russia which is building Nuclear facilities in the North Pole and extending it's reach into the middle East. In fact I am not going to go into this further for two reasons. One, the whole situation is complex and beyond my comprehension and knowledge, and two, whether we like it or not we are protected by NATO and are always involved in one way or another and can only hope the leaders make the correct decisions, or become pacifists and join CND. Interesting theory that last one, but do I really think Russia would give two hoots if the West laid down their arms? History shows the strong take what they want.

Back to Ukraine. In 2014 the people rose up against their pro Russian president. You can say this was directed by fascists but tome it appears to have been mostly students and the young who decided they want a future in Europe. Yes I get they probably don't really understand the complexities of the European union, but that really their desire was to be part of a European society where they would have freedoms to work towards building their own future and expressions. I do think the socialist paper is exaggerating the fascist element and that it suits their agenda. It is interesting of you watch winter on fire that all faiths came together to oppose the leadership in 2014. But of course there is fascist elements everywhere. But are you going to tell me Russians are openly welcoming of Jews and Gays? That argument simply hits a brick wall of pot, kettle.

To me it would appear the easiest solution would be for Ukraine to cede the Eastern states and redraw the lines of their country. But they know Russia will simply keep pushing the front line with one claim after another and they have decided to draw a line themselves. A line which Nato would do better defending than giving rhetoric about sanctions which Russia have learned to live with. Sanctions will do nothing but hurt the poor and in the longer term once Russia digs in, the lines will be forgotten and new peace accords made, increasing Russias territory and lining up the next step in their pursuit of land.

You may think there are too many countries in NATO, but these are countries not hell bent on claiming land, but on defending their own territories and ideals. Russia and China on the other hand wish to take land, Crimea/Ukraine, Taiwan etc to extend their own country, not to recognise independent countries, no wonder countries are flocking to NATO.

As to the point about Germany being forced to start WW1, I would say read more on this and you will see Germany made a choice to start the war and were pressing their own agenda of breaking up the Russian/French accord. Had Germany asked Austria to back off they never likely would have started a war with Serbia, but then it is all about perspectives.


Doubtless you would have us back in the days of Neil Kinnock and the miners strike, a strike that sadly led to the demise of many pits, flooded through lack of maintenance whilst the workers were on picket lines. Certainly capitalism has many faces of evil, but socialism also has many faces of greed, nepotism and ignorance. That said if I ever see a fair society based on true equal values and co-operation, sign me up
 
Davy said:
One thing for sure Big G is that in any conflict we rarely hear the truth or at least a neutral point of view. What you posted has many valid points and does stand off from both the Russian and American position highlighting the interests of both. However again it is from your own socialist/Marxist point of view and therefore is never going to be completely unbiased, it does however touch on points that other sides conveniently leave out.
I would hate to live in an area like the Crimea. It is the buffer zone between the new East and West line. I think you are correct in saying the majority of the people there wish now to come under Russian authority, however that is not without qualification.
Firstly, yes there is a majority of Russian speakers and many do feel part of Russia as their relatives may also live in Russia and for a lot of people growing up Russia was all they knew. A lot of people (also in many of the former USSR states have a rather tainted romantic rememberence of the days when they were guaranteed a job at least and hark back to these days, forgetting some of the harsh realities and lack of real opportunity)

It should be noted that just because someone speaks Russian it does not mean they wish to be part of modern day Russia. Most of Kiev speak Russian but have little desire to be run by Moscow. A lot of people were pro-Ukranian in the Crimean region, most of these people have been forced to flee or fled of their own choice, choosing not to be part of Russia's new empire. That in itself has caused a percentage shift in pro-Russian voters and after the annexation of Crimea there was a vote on being part of Russia where I think the majority was over 70% The Tatars of course do not want to be part of Russia and in fact have a far more historical claim on Crimea than either Russia or Ukraine. They make up around 230k of the population but could be more, there is also a very sizeable number in Turkey and other countries, perhaps eclipsing this number in Crimea. That more Tatars are/were returning to Crimea would certainly cause a shift in the balance and move closer towards 50% on either side of the fence. It must be noted here that many Crimeans and other Eastern residents have simply tired of the whole situation and just want someone, anyone to take some control and bring peace and stability. This as you say is unlikely to happen any time soon as both Russia and USA play out their war games on a worldwide stage. But however you look at it, we see that the majority Russian sentiment in the region is only marginally higher than Ukranian or independent sentiment and however this all lands, there is going to be over 40% of people deprived of their choice of government at the very least.

So to the question of East/West defences. Yes I think it is correct Russia should be worried about the increasing reach of Nato. By the same token USA are concerned about the reach of Russia which is building Nuclear facilities in the North Pole and extending it's reach into the middle East. In fact I am not going to go into this further for two reasons. One, the whole situation is complex and beyond my comprehension and knowledge, and two, whether we like it or not we are protected by NATO and are always involved in one way or another and can only hope the leaders make the correct decisions, or become pacifists and join CND. Interesting theory that last one, but do I really think Russia would give two hoots if the West laid down their arms? History shows the strong take what they want.

Back to Ukraine. In 2014 the people rose up against their pro Russian president. You can say this was directed by fascists but tome it appears to have been mostly students and the young who decided they want a future in Europe. Yes I get they probably don't really understand the complexities of the European union, but that really their desire was to be part of a European society where they would have freedoms to work towards building their own future and expressions. I do think the socialist paper is exaggerating the fascist element and that it suits their agenda. It is interesting of you watch winter on fire that all faiths came together to oppose the leadership in 2014. But of course there is fascist elements everywhere. But are you going to tell me Russians are openly welcoming of Jews and Gays? That argument simply hits a brick wall of pot, kettle.

To me it would appear the easiest solution would be for Ukraine to cede the Eastern states and redraw the lines of their country. But they know Russia will simply keep pushing the front line with one claim after another and they have decided to draw a line themselves. A line which Nato would do better defending than giving rhetoric about sanctions which Russia have learned to live with. Sanctions will do nothing but hurt the poor and in the longer term once Russia digs in, the lines will be forgotten and new peace accords made, increasing Russias territory and lining up the next step in their pursuit of land.

You may think there are too many countries in NATO, but these are countries not hell bent on claiming land, but on defending their own territories and ideals. Russia and China on the other hand wish to take land, Crimea/Ukraine, Taiwan etc to extend their own country, not to recognise independent countries, no wonder countries are flocking to NATO.

As to the point about Germany being forced to start WW1, I would say read more on this and you will see Germany made a choice to start the war and were pressing their own agenda of breaking up the Russian/French accord. Had Germany asked Austria to back off they never likely would have started a war with Serbia, but then it is all about perspectives.


Doubtless you would have us back in the days of Neil Kinnock and the miners strike, a strike that sadly led to the demise of many pits, flooded through lack of maintenance whilst the workers were on picket lines. Certainly capitalism has many faces of evil, but socialism also has many faces of greed, nepotism and ignorance. That said if I ever see a fair society based on true equal values and co-operation, sign me up
Click to expand...
Great post Davy , answered a lot of my questions 👍
 
Davy said:
One thing for sure Big G is that in any conflict we rarely hear the truth or at least a neutral point of view. What you posted has many valid points and does stand off from both the Russian and American position highlighting the interests of both. However again it is from your own socialist/Marxist point of view and therefore is never going to be completely unbiased, it does however touch on points that other sides conveniently leave out.
I would hate to live in an area like the Crimea. It is the buffer zone between the new East and West line. I think you are correct in saying the majority of the people there wish now to come under Russian authority, however that is not without qualification.
Firstly, yes there is a majority of Russian speakers and many do feel part of Russia as their relatives may also live in Russia and for a lot of people growing up Russia was all they knew. A lot of people (also in many of the former USSR states have a rather tainted romantic rememberence of the days when they were guaranteed a job at least and hark back to these days, forgetting some of the harsh realities and lack of real opportunity)

It should be noted that just because someone speaks Russian it does not mean they wish to be part of modern day Russia. Most of Kiev speak Russian but have little desire to be run by Moscow. A lot of people were pro-Ukranian in the Crimean region, most of these people have been forced to flee or fled of their own choice, choosing not to be part of Russia's new empire. That in itself has caused a percentage shift in pro-Russian voters and after the annexation of Crimea there was a vote on being part of Russia where I think the majority was over 70% The Tatars of course do not want to be part of Russia and in fact have a far more historical claim on Crimea than either Russia or Ukraine. They make up around 230k of the population but could be more, there is also a very sizeable number in Turkey and other countries, perhaps eclipsing this number in Crimea. That more Tatars are/were returning to Crimea would certainly cause a shift in the balance and move closer towards 50% on either side of the fence. It must be noted here that many Crimeans and other Eastern residents have simply tired of the whole situation and just want someone, anyone to take some control and bring peace and stability. This as you say is unlikely to happen any time soon as both Russia and USA play out their war games on a worldwide stage. But however you look at it, we see that the majority Russian sentiment in the region is only marginally higher than Ukranian or independent sentiment and however this all lands, there is going to be over 40% of people deprived of their choice of government at the very least.

So to the question of East/West defences. Yes I think it is correct Russia should be worried about the increasing reach of Nato. By the same token USA are concerned about the reach of Russia which is building Nuclear facilities in the North Pole and extending it's reach into the middle East. In fact I am not going to go into this further for two reasons. One, the whole situation is complex and beyond my comprehension and knowledge, and two, whether we like it or not we are protected by NATO and are always involved in one way or another and can only hope the leaders make the correct decisions, or become pacifists and join CND. Interesting theory that last one, but do I really think Russia would give two hoots if the West laid down their arms? History shows the strong take what they want.

Back to Ukraine. In 2014 the people rose up against their pro Russian president. You can say this was directed by fascists but tome it appears to have been mostly students and the young who decided they want a future in Europe. Yes I get they probably don't really understand the complexities of the European union, but that really their desire was to be part of a European society where they would have freedoms to work towards building their own future and expressions. I do think the socialist paper is exaggerating the fascist element and that it suits their agenda. It is interesting of you watch winter on fire that all faiths came together to oppose the leadership in 2014. But of course there is fascist elements everywhere. But are you going to tell me Russians are openly welcoming of Jews and Gays? That argument simply hits a brick wall of pot, kettle.

To me it would appear the easiest solution would be for Ukraine to cede the Eastern states and redraw the lines of their country. But they know Russia will simply keep pushing the front line with one claim after another and they have decided to draw a line themselves. A line which Nato would do better defending than giving rhetoric about sanctions which Russia have learned to live with. Sanctions will do nothing but hurt the poor and in the longer term once Russia digs in, the lines will be forgotten and new peace accords made, increasing Russias territory and lining up the next step in their pursuit of land.

You may think there are too many countries in NATO, but these are countries not hell bent on claiming land, but on defending their own territories and ideals. Russia and China on the other hand wish to take land, Crimea/Ukraine, Taiwan etc to extend their own country, not to recognise independent countries, no wonder countries are flocking to NATO.

As to the point about Germany being forced to start WW1, I would say read more on this and you will see Germany made a choice to start the war and were pressing their own agenda of breaking up the Russian/French accord. Had Germany asked Austria to back off they never likely would have started a war with Serbia, but then it is all about perspectives.


Doubtless you would have us back in the days of Neil Kinnock and the miners strike, a strike that sadly led to the demise of many pits, flooded through lack of maintenance whilst the workers were on picket lines. Certainly capitalism has many faces of evil, but socialism also has many faces of greed, nepotism and ignorance. That said if I ever see a fair society based on true equal values and co-operation, sign me up
Click to expand...
That is a well written and balanced post. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
Gread for power and wealth will always blight humanity.
It's a kind of insanity.
 
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Russian ambassador staff in Ukraine being evacuated, videos circulating of them burning all paperwork, going down in coming days by the looks of it.
 
bigmanandy said:
Russian ambassador staff in Ukraine being evacuated, videos circulating of them burning all paperwork, going down in coming days by the looks of it.
Click to expand...
those aren't real videos. I could make those myself on my PC :gigglle:
 
Saw this going around facebook, interesting that USA aren't defending these assets ,ore vigorously :)

The question was why does Ukraine matter...I replied that the people also matter...but here is some of the valuable assets some say Russia would like to get their hands on


It is important!
For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “
This is why Ukraine matters.
It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.
 
Davy said:
Saw this going around facebook, interesting that USA aren't defending these assets ,ore vigorously :)

The question was why does Ukraine matter...I replied that the people also matter...but here is some of the valuable assets some say Russia would like to get their hands on


It is important!
For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine matter? “
This is why Ukraine matters.
It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.
Click to expand...
Why is it not one of the richest countries in the world then 🤷‍♂️
 
Westside Green said:
That would depend on who ends up with the proceeds.
Click to expand...
Indeed, there were plenty accusations of embezzlement at past governments. Also a lot of these ore require a lot of money to dig them up and so the right investment. But it is an interesting question and something I'll have a look into.
 
There is a lot about past politicians embezzeling and favouring land deals and so on, but this report gives a far deeper insight into the major problems. It is a bit of an eye opener and shows that Ukraine could well end up losing their country due to mismanagement of their monetary system.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

What is wrong with the Ukrainian economy?

Construction is booming in Kyiv, Ukraine, but not the rest of the economy. A major reason is that Ukrainians with some extra savings do not put their money into banks but buy additional apartments instead. Others keep their savings in cash. On average, Ukrainian MPs keep $700,000 at home. Those...
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org



But this guys doesn't just talk, he has some viable suggestions

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Do something with state enterprises already

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is right to emphasize the need to privatize state-owned enterprises.
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org

These reports of course are 2-3 years old now so will be interesting to see if anything was done about the sale of government businesses
 
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Nuclear energy seems to be the future for Ukraine, there is masses of Uranium in Ukraine. There is far more in the sea, but it is way harder to mine it there. I noticed this report stating that Ukraine currently uses 15 reactors of Russian design, but are moving forward in partnership with the USA to make reactors which will recycle the Uraniam and some experts have predicted that the current available Uraniam would last between 80-350 years, but if the Uraniam can be reused again and again it could last up to 300k years. Is the fact USA becoming involved something Russia is also opposed to? I have no idea but it can be useful seeing the bigger picture in politics.

www.world-nuclear-news.org

Ukraine pushes for domestic uranium supply

A programme to make Ukraine self-sufficient in uranium by 2027 has been approved by the country's cabinet. Nuclear power is planned for significant expansion beyond the 54% of electricity it already provides in Ukraine.;
www.world-nuclear-news.org
 
Disgusting from Putin and Belarus, heavy heavy sanctions now needed against these madmen
 
I see now see that Alex Salmond, who prior to the sleaze gig, was quoted by some people on here as being the greatest politician in the UK back in the day. Yes you did. Is now being demonised by Starmer and wee Nichola for being on RT.

Fuck sake. Starmer called for a ban on the Russian state-backed broadcaster RT yesterday, accusing the channel of pumping out pro-Vladimir Putin propaganda

The same Sir, who has written recently for the rabid, lying bastard right wing, Tory supporting, discusting S*n, pumping out Rupert Murdoch's right wing propoganda and said he will do so again.

Knob.

BIG G
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
I see now see that Alex Salmond, who prior to the sleaze gig, was quoted by some people on here as being the greatest politician in the UK back in the day. Yes you did. Is now being demonised by Starmer and wee Nichola for being on RT.

Fuck sake. Starmer called for a ban on the Russian state-backed broadcaster RT yesterday, accusing the channel of pumping out pro-Vladimir Putin propaganda

The same Sir, who has written recently for the rabid, lying bastard right wing, Tory supporting, discusting S*n, pumping out Rupert Murdoch's right wing propoganda and said he will do so again.

Knob.

BIG G
Click to expand...
G ye cannae quite bring yersel tae blame Russian imperialism/aggression for this mess.
You and your socialist press blame NATO, western expansionism, the British media,
"Fascist" Ukrainian politicians.
Anybody in fact except those whose fault it is, Russia and the madman Putin.
You're now mentioning a nonentity ex politician in a vain attempt to discredit the SNP.
Still, maybe its not really happening. Its probably all just western propaganda.
 
Totally surreal when you wake up hearing of an invasion.. turn on the tv to a shopping channel talking bull about how some bits of jewelry are important!
 
paigntonhibby said:
G ye cannae quite bring yersel tae blame Russian imperialism/aggression for this mess.
You and your socialist press blame NATO, western expansionism, the British media,
"Fascist" Ukrainian politicians.
Anybody in fact except those whose fault it is, Russia and the madman Putin.
You're now mentioning a nonentity ex politician in a vain attempt to discredit the SNP.
Still, maybe its not really happening. Its probably all just western propaganda.
Click to expand...
Your world outlook has possibly been coloured after you took your oath as a young man to Her Majesty .

BIG G
 
paigntonhibby said:
As a boy actually Gordon
Click to expand...
Mate your blithering assertions do not hold water. Beleive and make up what keeps you happy and fits your world outlook.
Marxists don't do good guy bad guy like too many unfortunately do. Even on this wee site.

www.socialist.net

Ukraine: Putin ups the ante | The Communist

Faced with Western imperialism’s intransigence, Putin has escalated the conflict in Ukraine by recognising the Donbas republics and sending in troops. This is a clash between rival reactionary powers – powers that the working class must overthrow.
www.socialist.net www.socialist.net

BIG G
 
western imperialism intransigence !! Hmm that sounds like familiar rhetoric.
The yugoslav civil was was because the separate regions couldn't resolve their different ethnic and religious differences.
But let's blame the West anyway.
 
Between Starmer writing an article in a newspaper and Putin reportedly launching ICBMs at civilian targets its good to see your ire saved for the real villains
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
Mate your blithering assertions do not hold water. Beleive and make up what keeps you happy and fits your world outlook.
Marxists don't do good guy bad guy like too many unfortunately do. Even on this wee site.

www.socialist.net

Ukraine: Putin ups the ante | The Communist

Faced with Western imperialism’s intransigence, Putin has escalated the conflict in Ukraine by recognising the Donbas republics and sending in troops. This is a clash between rival reactionary powers – powers that the working class must overthrow.
www.socialist.net www.socialist.net

BIG G
Click to expand...

By Sauzee you need a day off to read that.
 
Got message from friend in odessa with map of everywhere that has been hit it's all over the country
 
https://liveuamap.com/
Map of Ukraine with different icons listing the events that link to where the information came from if you click them.
Note this doesn't mean the information is always 100%, there have been the same videos posted in multiple locations for example, but it gives a good overview and place to start looking if you want to.
 
Nex said:
https://liveuamap.com/
Map of Ukraine with different icons listing the events that link to where the information came from if you click them.
Note this doesn't mean the information is always 100%, there have been the same videos posted in multiple locations for example, but it gives a good overview and place to start looking if you want to.
Click to expand...

I should add that this website takes from various sources and links them directly. No warnings or censorship so there is the possibility of pictures or videos of dead and wounded being linked.
 
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