TRUMP IS A See you next Tuesday

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I'm glad the Trump administration are trying to broker a deal. Too many are just happy to condemn everything when the reality is if no deal is reached the conflict escalates with others including the UK drawn in deeper.
 
Smurf said:
I'm glad the Trump administration are trying to broker a deal. Too many are just happy to condemn everything when the reality is if no deal is reached the conflict escalates with others including the UK drawn in deeper.
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Greenmachine said:
What is the point of peace talks in any scenario when one of the parties taking part does not want peace ?....and the country which has been violated by that party is not even in attendance.
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It’s the art of the deal dontcha know
 
hibbybilly said:
I wonder how much of Ukraine is tae get sacrificed for a peace deal?
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There's not going to be a peace deal.
Ukraine will never accept any sovereign land being taken over and occupied by Russia, and neither they should.
Putin doesn't want peace, he wants war....a war he is currently well on the way to winning.
He wants Ukraine obliterated as an independent state, and brought back into the Soviet empire.
The sooner the sappy European leaders realise this the better.
USA have walked away from it all, or they will do when Trump gets back to Washington.
They will say it's up to Zelensky now, it's a European thing, and we've done our best but it's out of out of hands now.
 
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Greenmachine said:
There's not going to be peace deal.
Ukraine will never accept sovereign land being taken over and occupied by Russia, and neither they should.
Putin doesn't want peace, he wants war....a war he is currently well on the way to winning.
He wants Ukraine obilterated as an independent state, and brought back into the Soviet empire.
The sooner the sappy European leaders realise this the better.
USA have walked away from it all, or they will do when Trump gets back to Washington.
They will say it's up to Zelensky now, it's a European thing, and we've done our best but it's out of out of hands now.
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All true and even more amazing given the trumpet proclaimed he’d have peace on less than 24 hours.
And the hordes believed
 
Greenmachine said:
There's not going to be a peace deal.
Ukraine will never accept any sovereign land being taken over and occupied by Russia, and neither they should.
Putin doesn't want peace, he wants war....a war he is currently well on the way to winning.
He wants Ukraine obliterated as an independent state, and brought back into the Soviet empire.
The sooner the sappy European leaders realise this the better.
USA have walked away from it all, or they will do when Trump gets back to Washington.
They will say it's up to Zelensky now, it's a European thing, and we've done our best but it's out of out of hands now.
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Aye I know that, I should have said how much Trump and Putin had agreed.
 
Greenmachine said:
There's not going to be a peace deal.
Ukraine will never accept any sovereign land being taken over and occupied by Russia, and neither they should.
Putin doesn't want peace, he wants war....a war he is currently well on the way to winning.
He wants Ukraine obliterated as an independent state, and brought back into the Soviet empire.
The sooner the sappy European leaders realise this the better.
USA have walked away from it all, or they will do when Trump gets back to Washington.
They will say it's up to Zelensky now, it's a European thing, and we've done our best but it's out of out of hands now.
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The pass was sold long ago. I remember pointing out that following Obama's incredible naivety the world would face a dangerous period as American threat was reestablished.

Well it seems like its not going to be. Bled dry economically by globalism and unwinnable wars and socially by woke, European style ennui and then an isolationist reaction, America has neither the means nor the will to remain world cop; European critics have got their way and we will now need to adapt.

If we can stop laughing up the back. As we are skinter and possessed of even less will when things go beyond putting flags on facebook. According to surveys and evidence in chat here, few are willing to fight for anything beyond their immediate home (and plenty arent willing to do that either).

Putin knows this. Xi knows this. Islamists abroad and at home know this. The threat is gone and the economic levers are gone. The equation is now: prepare to fight on ww2 style levels, which you can't and wouldn't anyway, or get back in your box.

Ukraine has been heroic, but the game is up. The Yanks are in no mood to accelerate their decline even further to do the dirty work of an unserious and ungrateful europe. Europe are the playground gimp in world affairs.

I am strangely reminded of the end of the movie Se7en except Brad Pitt has no bullets.

The box has been opened. The overwatch is useless. John Doe has the upper hand.

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I think Trump is trying to help Putin get rid of Zelensky.

His and the Ukrainian resolve to not back down and give up the land isn't a part of the plan.

Russia wants all the land, Trump will say peace is possible but Zelensky has to concede everything. Which he can't do.

I think they all think Ukraine will turn on Zelensky, make him out to be the one stopping it all.
Ever since they treated him like they did, on tv, in the whitehouse... He's gonna have to go back there for round 2.
 
Hammi said:
I think Trump is trying to help Putin get rid of Zelensky.

His and the Ukrainian resolve to not back down and give up the land isn't a part of the plan.

Russia wants all the land, Trump will say peace is possible but Zelensky has to concede everything. Which he can't do.

I think they all think Ukraine will turn on Zelensky, make him out to be the one stopping it all.
Ever since they treated him like they did, on tv, in the whitehouse... He's gonna have to go back there for round 2.
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Zelensky's popularity does seem to be waning a bit in Ukraine, although he has backed away from diluting anti corruption efforts, which had got people's danders up.

Whether the US want to remove him or not, is secondary I think. Ukrainians increasingly want an end to the war though obviously not under Russian terms.

So where does that leave things?

Ukraine can't win the war. Certainly not without and very possibly with US backing (short of ww3 type stuff). Lots more deaths aren't going to change that.

Russia has no reason to grant what Ukraine want. Its had a good war and is going from strength to strength, with only demographics looking like an issue.

Europe are irrelevant beyond being a buffet from which Vlad will select future morsels.

Given this situation I think America wants it over. To the extent they want rid of Zelensky its because hes an obstacle to that - ie its secondary, as above.

Its sickening, but what really is the alternative?
 
egb_hibs said:
Zelensky's popularity does seem to be waning a bit in Ukraine, although he has backed away from diluting anti corruption efforts, which had got people's danders up.

Whether the US want to remove him or not, is secondary I think. Ukrainians increasingly want an end to the war though obviously not under Russian terms.

So where does that leave things?

Ukraine can't win the war. Certainly not without and very possibly with US backing (short of ww3 type stuff). Lots more deaths aren't going to change that.

Russia has no reason to grant what Ukraine want. Its had a good war and is going from strength to strength, with only demographics looking like an issue.

Europe are irrelevant beyond being a buffet from which Vlad will select future morsels.

Given this situation I think America wants it over. To the extent they want rid of Zelensky its because hes an obstacle to that - ie its secondary, as above.

Its sickening, but what really is the alternative?
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This. Realpolitik.

The European response has been embarrassing. Caught with their pants at their ankles.
 
Smurf said:
I'm glad the Trump administration are trying to broker a deal. Too many are just happy to condemn everything when the reality is if no deal is reached the conflict escalates with others including the UK drawn in deeper.
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He can't broker a deal because he is taking nothing to the table. He will be asking Putin "What is the smallest area of land conceded that you will accept?" He will then give that figure to Zelenski and tell him he has to accept that "deal" or he is the villain. Total bollocks from Trump. If he won't stand up for Ukraine then he has no cards to play and we will witness the USSR phoenix rise once more.
 
Wishbone said:
He can't broker a deal because he is taking nothing to the table. He will be asking Putin "What is the smallest area of land conceded that you will accept?" He will then give that figure to Zelenski and tell him he has to accept that "deal" or he is the villain. Total bollocks from Trump. If he won't stand up for Ukraine then he has no cards to play and we will witness the USSR phoenix rise once more.
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Time will tell. What would you prefer him to do?
 
Wishbone said:
He can't broker a deal because he is taking nothing to the table. He will be asking Putin "What is the smallest area of land conceded that you will accept?" He will then give that figure to Zelenski and tell him he has to accept that "deal" or he is the villain. Total bollocks from Trump. If he won't stand up for Ukraine then he has no cards to play and we will witness the USSR phoenix rise once more.
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What would standing up for Ukraine look like?

Presumably not WW3, so continue to fund a stalemate - which they cant really afford - at the cost of many more deaths and no change?

Economic measures haven't worked and if anything have weakened Europe and the US while Russia has grown stronger.

What cards remain to be played ?
 
Establishing a DMZ in the disputed areas is probably the quickest way to end the conflict, for now anyway. Ukraine’s new border is drawn further west but not all former land is conceded to Russia (and the new border is actually backed by NATO), with Russia’s further east thus allowing Putin to claim his special military operation was a success… saving face for both sides.

No idea what that does for the people who live in those areas, but then no one gives a single fuck about them anyway.
 
Smurf said:
As expected a non answer....
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I don't have an answer to your question as to what I want him to do. He is obviously out of his depth wherever diplomacy is required but he will never accept that. IMO he has become the problem.
 
The Ukraine/Russia conflict is not something I have been paying too much attention to but I think it’s now in its third year? So is it developing into something akin to when Russia invaded Afghanistan or Dagestan? Does Russia really have the stamina for a 10 year slugfest with Ukraine with no sign of a conclusion after ten years, does the Ukraine have that kind of stamina if backed up by other countries? I don’t think the USA wants to pay for this while China is eyeing up a move on Taiwan. They are all up to no good.

The time to have done something about Russian aggression was three years ago when they were amassing troops on the Ukraine border saying it was just practice. Yeah right. Lessons don’t seem to have been learned from history.
 
BurbankHibee said:
The time to have done something about Russian aggression was three years ago when they were amassing troops on the Ukraine border saying it was just practice. Yeah right. Lessons don’t seem to have been learned from history.
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Or early in the war when Ukraine had momentum and Russia had yet to turn into a full war economy. Theyre now producing more battlefield munitions than europe and the US combined and can outlast Ukraine and its backers in a war of attrition.
 
egb_hibs said:
Or early in the war when Ukraine had momentum and Russia had yet to turn into a full war economy. Theyre now producing more battlefield munitions than europe and the US combined and can outlast Ukraine and its backers in a war of attrition.
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Then things don’t look good for Ukraine. USA seems lacking in commitment to spending money they don’t have and European countries are in the same boat or worse, skint. Where is Russia getting its money from? Would sanctions cool their jets?
 
BurbankHibee said:
Then things don’t look good for Ukraine. USA seems lacking in commitment to spending money they don’t have and European countries are in the same boat or worse, skint. Where is Russia getting its money from? Would sanctions cool their jets?
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From what I read they have very successfully realigned their economy eastwards and southwards. Sanctions have arguably hurt the sanctioners more than them.
 
egb_hibs said:
What would standing up for Ukraine look like?

Presumably not WW3, so continue to fund a stalemate - which they cant really afford - at the cost of many more deaths and no change?

Economic measures haven't worked and if anything have weakened Europe and the US while Russia has grown stronger.

What cards remain to be played ?
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Unfortunately I think all the cards we/he may have had were used before he met Putin. That tv interview where Trump and his cronies all ganged up on Zelenski showed the lack of diplomacy and savvy from the USA and all the incoherent statements and press conferences that followed would surely have pretty much confirmed to Putin that he had nothing much to worry about. I am at a loss to understand how we got to where we are now. We've had Boris, Trump and the dithering EU mob all bereft of any strategies. I'm not saying that better leadership would have resulted in resolving this but we would have had a better shot.
I realised from the beginning that I had no answers other than knee jerk WTF reactions which were not very diplomatic either. All the answers/strategies that I could see should have come before the massed troops crossed the border. Once the fox was in the hen house he held all the cards. I understand where the analysis on here is coming from and that the bigger picture does not show any decent outcome. I think my frustration with that realisation has brought back my knee jerk rections. I just find it so utterly depressing that Putin can do what he likes and get away with it.
 
Wishbone said:
I just find it so utterly depressing that Putin can do what he likes and get away with it
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Him and that prick Netanyahu. Hopefully get the pair of them on the same podium and with 1 very good marksman we widnae have tae waste 2 bullets on them.
 
Trump is being played like a fiddle by putin. Donald says sanctions will be imposed if no end to the war and that IS the only way forward . Wont happen though as long as putin takes the piss 😡😡😡😡😡
 
joethehibby said:
Trump is being played like a fiddle by putin. Donald says sanctions will be imposed if no end to the war and that IS the only way forward . Wont happen though as long as putin takes the piss 😡😡😡😡😡
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Yup the word in Russia is they wont accept anymore arming of Ukraine as part of any deal while the word in the West is we'll continue to secure them with arms, all smoke and mirrors from Trump.
 
egb_hibs said:
A horrific incident, that goes to the heart of more than one liberal pathology.
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Here's how CNN reported the story. Absolutely vile. Would they have used some twee Sliding Doors narrative if a white man with a string of convictions stabbed a black woman in the neck three times?

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Sancho Panza said:
Here's how CNN reported the story. Absolutely vile. Would they have used some twee Sliding Doors narrative if a white man with a string of convictions stabbed a black woman in the neck three times?

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Woke kills. Add one ukranian girl to thousands of black people in the US, thousands of rape victims and a few murdered and occasionally dismembered here. And God alone knows how many more.

When you turn your back on the truth nothing good can follow.
 
Ice now able to stop anyone in the street anywhere. Its going great in america.

The state of them with the Koreans at the Hyundai factory 🙈🙈
 
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