Sweeping sectarianism under carpet - AGAIN and AGAIN

[Jack]

"The SPFL employs delegates to help enforce league rules during matches and identifying sectarian singing is part of that brief.

But, under the current rules, if clubs can prove they have taken all reasonable steps to prevent such behaviour, they will escape any sanctions.

"We had numerous meetings with the police, who told us which songs to look out for, but it was pointless because when we reported them, nothing was ever done," said the former match delegate.

BBC Scotland has also learned that delegates have reported at least four clubs to league bosses this season alone for fans singing offensive or sectarian songs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43395124

Celtc, sevco, gunts. Who else?

Despite our bad rep following the cup final I doubt it's us, the cup final was exuberance!

Also I'm sure there's been quotes from the football authorities in the past that nothing has been reported by their match delegates. More lies or am I mistaken?

 

[Doc Shrink]

Pretty sure a Plastic Whistle fan was one of the first 'offenders' taken to court under the crackdown on sectarianism. Some pathetic plod arrested him for singing a popular Jags song which includes references to "****ing the Queen and the Pope too" which in context is simply their way of distancing themselves from the Old Firm Kafflik/Proddy feuds. Ironic that both the arresting plod and the PF thought this was worthy of dragging the guy to the court.
Thankfully the Sheriff binned it.

There is a large chunk of our society who will go to any lengths to deny that the problem is embedded in a couple of extremely obvious places, and will always come up with a whataboutery that points to 'other vile examples' such as er....... Plastic Whistle.

 

[hibbybilly]

"The SPFL employs delegates to help enforce league rules during matches and identifying sectarian singing is part of that brief.

But, under the current rules, if clubs can prove they have taken all reasonable steps to prevent such behaviour, they will escape any sanctions.

"We had numerous meetings with the police, who told us which songs to look out for, but it was pointless because when we reported them, nothing was ever done," said the former match delegate.

BBC Scotland has also learned that delegates have reported at least four clubs to league bosses this season alone for fans singing offensive or sectarian songs.

Scottish football accused of sweeping sectarianism under carpet - BBC Sport

Celtc, sevco, gunts. Who else?

Despite our bad rep following the cup final I doubt it's us, the cup final was exuberance!

Also I'm sure there's been quotes from the football authorities in the past that nothing has been reported by their match delegates. More lies or am I mistaken?

Irvine Welch's take on it.

Pretty insulting claim given that Scottish football has been to the forefront in promoting sectarianism for well over a century.

 

[St.Anne's]

Scotland Should Be Sealed Off!

After all ex-pat Scots have been expelled back hame. That would curtail any malignant influence from either Ireland or England and be a huge help in terminating this type of Thought Crime.Norman Stanley Fletcher has that amusing line in "Porridge", when Mr. Mackay sneers at him for "identifying" (I believe this is the Equalitist term) as Working Class, when he's never done a day's work in his life. "So, you consider yourself Working Class!?" To which Fletcher replies, "Well, I did, until I went to Glasgow once. Since then I consider myself Middle Class."Most people consider the English to be the planet's most arrogant, self-righteous, hypocritical vermin... Until they have the misfortune to encounter a "modern" Scot. What a nation of arseholes!As I say, return all Scots to Scotland; seal the borders; let them create the paradise they aspire to.I'll see you at the Europa League away legs. I won't be setting foot in Scotland again. What a nation of fellatoligists, onanists and eunuchs the place has become. Was "primo nocte" for the English in Scotland not a myth made up by Mel Gibson after all?Do me a favour, admins: delete my account along with this post. Yiz could report me to Polis Scotland while you're about it.Cheers.

 

[Dub]

After all ex-pat Scots have been expelled back hame. That would curtail any malignant influence from either Ireland or England and be a huge help in terminating this type of Thought Crime.Norman Stanley Fletcher has that amusing line in "Porridge", when Mr. Mackay sneers at him for "identifying" (I believe this is the Equalitist term) as Working Class, when he's never done a day's work in his life. "So, you consider yourself Working Class!?" To which Fletcher replies, "Well, I did, until I went to Glasgow once. Since then I consider myself Middle Class."Most people consider the English to be the planet's most arrogant, self-righteous, hypocritical vermin... Until they have the misfortune to encounter a "modern" Scot. What a nation of arseholes!As I say, return all Scots to Scotland; seal the borders; let them create the paradise they aspire to.I'll see you at the Europa League away legs. I won't be setting foot in Scotland again. What a nation of fellatoligists, onanists and eunuchs the place has become. Was "primo nocte" for the English in Scotland not a myth made up by Mel Gibson after all?Do me a favour, admins: delete my account along with this post. Yiz could report me to Polis Scotland while you're about it.Cheers.

With that attitude you won't be missed in Scotland.

 

[Doc Shrink]

With that attitude you won't be missed in Scotland.

You understood that diatribe?

Crikey.

 

[Hibee Kev]

After all ex-pat Scots have been expelled back hame. That would curtail any malignant influence from either Ireland or England and be a huge help in terminating this type of Thought Crime.Norman Stanley Fletcher has that amusing line in "Porridge", when Mr. Mackay sneers at him for "identifying" (I believe this is the Equalitist term) as Working Class, when he's never done a day's work in his life. "So, you consider yourself Working Class!?" To which Fletcher replies, "Well, I did, until I went to Glasgow once. Since then I consider myself Middle Class."Most people consider the English to be the planet's most arrogant, self-righteous, hypocritical vermin... Until they have the misfortune to encounter a "modern" Scot. What a nation of arseholes!As I say, return all Scots to Scotland; seal the borders; let them create the paradise they aspire to.I'll see you at the Europa League away legs. I won't be setting foot in Scotland again. What a nation of fellatoligists, onanists and eunuchs the place has become. Was "primo nocte" for the English in Scotland not a myth made up by Mel Gibson after all?Do me a favour, admins: delete my account along with this post. Yiz could report me to Polis Scotland while you're about it.Cheers.

Better off sticking to your gambling tips mate. Your other posts are a tad cryptic; Confucius meets Ted Rogers

 

[Dub]

You understood that diatribe?

Crikey.

You've met me, I'm fluent in gibberish.

Basically he was calling us all ****s.

 

[hibbybilly]

You understood that diatribe?

Crikey.

Thought it was just me.

 

[1875]

You've met me, I'm fluent in gibberish.

Basically he was calling us all ****s.

Abut, good or bad ones?

 

[southfieldhibby]

After all ex-pat Scots have been expelled back hame. That would curtail any malignant influence from either Ireland or England and be a huge help in terminating this type of Thought Crime.Norman Stanley Fletcher has that amusing line in "Porridge", when Mr. Mackay sneers at him for "identifying" (I believe this is the Equalitist term) as Working Class, when he's never done a day's work in his life. "So, you consider yourself Working Class!?" To which Fletcher replies, "Well, I did, until I went to Glasgow once. Since then I consider myself Middle Class."Most people consider the English to be the planet's most arrogant, self-righteous, hypocritical vermin... Until they have the misfortune to encounter a "modern" Scot. What a nation of arseholes!As I say, return all Scots to Scotland; seal the borders; let them create the paradise they aspire to.I'll see you at the Europa League away legs. I won't be setting foot in Scotland again. What a nation of fellatoligists, onanists and eunuchs the place has become. Was "primo nocte" for the English in Scotland not a myth made up by Mel Gibson after all?Do me a favour, admins: delete my account along with this post. Yiz could report me to Polis Scotland while you're about it.Cheers.

Is there a way that no one can delete this or his account [MENTION=209]Jamie[/MENTION] [MENTION=813]1875[/MENTION]? It's always good to know who the total arseholes are by seeing what they post.

 

[Jamie]

Is there a way that no one can delete this or his account [MENTION=209]Jamie[/MENTION] [MENTION=813]1875[/MENTION]? It's always good to know who the total arseholes are by seeing what they post.

Yes

 

[ZemmamasBarnet]

After all ex-pat Scots have been expelled back hame. That would curtail any malignant influence from either Ireland or England and be a huge help in terminating this type of Thought Crime.Norman Stanley Fletcher has that amusing line in "Porridge", when Mr. Mackay sneers at him for "identifying" (I believe this is the Equalitist term) as Working Class, when he's never done a day's work in his life. "So, you consider yourself Working Class!?" To which Fletcher replies, "Well, I did, until I went to Glasgow once. Since then I consider myself Middle Class."Most people consider the English to be the planet's most arrogant, self-righteous, hypocritical vermin... Until they have the misfortune to encounter a "modern" Scot. What a nation of arseholes!As I say, return all Scots to Scotland; seal the borders; let them create the paradise they aspire to.I'll see you at the Europa League away legs. I won't be setting foot in Scotland again. What a nation of fellatoligists, onanists and eunuchs the place has become. Was "primo nocte" for the English in Scotland not a myth made up by Mel Gibson after all?Do me a favour, admins: delete my account along with this post. Yiz could report me to Polis Scotland while you're about it.Cheers.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...:hmmm

 

[Hammi]

The SPFL couldn't care, if they done as they said and started closing doors as punishment, then Hunco would have about an attendance of 900 each week, away fans only.

Sectarianism in our game, pays. They love it, they believe it's atmospheric and don't actually see a problem.
It's a complete waste of everyone's times even trying.

We need wholesale changes at the top, or we're never ever going to move forward. Living in the dark ages at times up here. Although, even wholesale changes would achieve nothing, because they'd soon find out this is how it works.
What we need, is a SPFL takeover.

Tear up roots and start again. Also, never happen.

 

[Zab]

The act is not fit for purpose, so repealing it is the right move. It must be replaced with one that is focussed solely on stamping out racism & bigotry within the Scottish game.

People who say it’s not as big an issue now are wrong IMO - Rangers, Hearts, Dundee & Kilmarnock are frequently heard signing about being “up to their knees” which really is just a wholly unacceptable lyric for any song, regardless of the recipient, in 2018. Then there’s the Celtic fans who are frequently heard adding “up the ‘RA” to their songs, again entirely irrelevant and unacceptable at a Scottish football match.

(As a side note, “Hun” is not a racist or bigoted term).

 

[Jack]

The act is not fit for purpose, so repealing it is the right move. It must be replaced with one that is focussed solely on stamping out racism & bigotry within the Scottish game.

People who say it’s not as big an issue now are wrong IMO - Rangers, Hearts, Dundee & Kilmarnock are frequently heard signing about being “up to their knees” which really is just a wholly unacceptable lyric for any song, regardless of the recipient, in 2018. Then there’s the Celtic fans who are frequently heard adding “up the ‘RA” to their songs, again entirely irrelevant and unacceptable at a Scottish football match.

(As a side note, “Hun” is not a racist or bigoted term).

I agree but would suggest it's not just racism & bigotry within the Scottish game that needs addressed. The the marching season not too far off. Both sides at it again.

 

[1875]

I don't believe that Dundee fans sing "up to their knees", they sing other words so bit harsh to tar them with that brush.

And Killie fans will say they sung their version before the Huns.

I am from another era, I like Irish folk songs, but I dinnae see their place in fitba.

Hibs fans have two songs that would have the hand wringers and ahh-butters chuffed, the "fuck the queen for half a quid" line (which I think along too but wouldnae sing) and the recent introduction of Stokey's Da.

 

[tricky]

The act is not fit for purpose, so repealing it is the right move. It must be replaced with one that is focussed solely on stamping out racism & bigotry within the Scottish game.

People who say it’s not as big an issue now are wrong IMO - Rangers, Hearts, Dundee & Kilmarnock are frequently heard signing about being “up to their knees” which really is just a wholly unacceptable lyric for any song, regardless of the recipient, in 2018. Then there’s the Celtic fans who are frequently heard adding “up the ‘RA” to their songs, again entirely irrelevant and unacceptable at a Scottish football match.

(As a side note, “Hun” is not a racist or bigoted term).

bit harsh to drag Dundee and Kilmarnock into what is a Rangers and Celtic issue plus a small moronic element at Hearts and Hibs.

 

[1875]

bit harsh to drag Dundee and Kilmarnock into what is a Rangers and Celtic issue plus a small moronic element at Hearts and Hibs.

Airdrie? Motherwell? Ayr United? Dundee? I have heard and seen Hunnishness from all four sets of fans.

 

[tricky]

Airdrie? Motherwell? Ayr United? Dundee? I have heard and seen Hunnishness from all four sets of fans.

Recently?

 

[1875]

Recently?

Airdrie still have a malignant hunnish element to their support, I personally know Motherwell fans who would fit perfectly in at Ibrox, Ayr - I am sure their fans flew a Butchers Apron when playing us when we were in Championship, Irvine Meadow had a few when we played them too. You might be right about Dundee, cannae think of any recent signs of Hunnish behaviour, although they still sing the Billy Boys most games, given its the Dundee Derry boys, not Dundee Billy Boys.

 

[Zab]

Airdrie? Motherwell? Ayr United? Dundee? I have heard and seen Hunnishness from all four sets of fans.

Exactly my point.

They all know the connotations of the song, even if some claim they sing something other than fenian, so singing it is to embrace the Hunnish element.

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I don't believe that Dundee fans sing "up to their knees", they sing other words so bit harsh to tar them with that brush.

They sing a version of “hello hello” don’t they?

 

[SKII]

So do/did United fans so not sure what your point is?

Tangerine is the new Orange?

 

[Greenmachine]

The Rangers and Celtic are not really football clubs. They are movements which represent a very broad section of Scottish society. Both of these institutions exist and thrive on one thing...sectarianism. It is the lifeblood and the lungs of both institutions. They need it to survive and prosper and this they have done now for over 100 years. Both institutions are very powerful and have very influential friends amongst the judiciary, the legal system and of course the media. There is no way that any laws are going to be passed in this country which will limit that said lifeblood and therefore weaken the bodies it supplies. "Religious" bigotry (I put inverted commas around the word "religious" as this cancer has nothing to do with religion itself), sectarianism and intolerance is of course is not just limited to the two horrible institutions in the East and West of Glasgow. It exists everywhere in this nation and this is why the Rangers and Celtic have been able to exploit this cancer for so long and become big and prosper because of it. Why do so many people in former mining towns like Prestonpans and Tranent (just using those two as an example, there are many more all over Scotland) choose to support the Rangers when there are two top flight clubs just on their doorstep ? Why do so many buses and carloads of fans choose to travel from the north, south east and west of Scotland to Parkhead every other week when they could support their local clubs ? Would you like to see a law passed which will weaken the situation whereby something you love can prosper and grow better and more successful ? No chance. I'm afraid it's here to stay as it is so ingrained into Scottish society now.

 

[Zab]

So do/did United fans so not sure what your point is?

My point is pretty clear - it’s a fucking horrible song deeply rooted in bigotry that has no place in 2018. Who is currently singing it isn’t the issue, the fact it is sung at all is. It, along with anything “up the ‘RA” should be target number one in terms of banning them from football grounds in Scotland.

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It could very well be. The point I'm making is that although the tune is the same, the words are different and no reference to "up to our knees". IIRC. Dundee. Hello hello, we are the Derry boys, Hello, hello, you can tell us by our noise,We're off to meet/fight some Arab boys,Surrender or you'll die,Coz we are the Dundee FC boys. United. Hello, hello, we are Arab/united boys, Hello, hello, you can tell us by our noise, We're off to meet/fight some Derry/Dundee boys, Surrender or you'll die, Coz we are the Dundee united boys.

So they might not sing about being up to their knees, but they’re singing about threatening murder.... that’s much better. And, as I said before, we all know what the song is derived from, and is used to mask the bigoted element in various supports.

 

[Hibee Kev]

I was reading, for some light entertainment, the jambos kickback 2016 Scottish Cup final thread again (what a great pick-me-up BTW!) And even they were commenting how the BBC were effectively muting-out the Huns songbook for spells during the game. I believe this goes on quite a bit?

There is just no appetite to tackle it. If our national broadcaster is content to airbrush-out sectarian chanting without any further repercussions or even condemnation from any organisation whatsoever then we really are goosed.

 

[1875]

"It's a fucking horrible song" as you put it. Aye it is if it's sung with the original words. When its sung by other teams fans (and i only know the words the 2 Dundee teams fans sing), i dinnae see what the big deal is. Is it OK for Hibs fans to sing about someone being 6 feet under? You've obviously got a bee in your bonnet about it so I'll leave you to deal with that.

I find the Huns, and diet versions offensive, it makes me want to knock their ****s in, I am from another era. I also believe in the right to be able to have an opinion different to mine, even though some on here think otherwise, the question really is, why voice it at the Fitba? When I go to the fitba, I go to support Hibs, I often dont know nor care who plays for the opposition? I heard Hibs fans calling the St Johnstone fans Tory bastards last night, I expect most who came along wurnae?

To add to your collection of pricks who sign the banned Billy Boys song, the Gunts sing Fenian Blood, they mean you and I irrespective of our own beliefs, way too may of them are establishment bigots.

I expect Dundee and United sing the Billy/ Derry Boys song but there is little bigotry, although after recently reading about Uniteds founding (I read their excellent Centenary Book), I was surprised by the size of the Irish and Catholic influence in Jutetown.

 

[SKII]

Re the Billy boys song, I react like a Pavlovian dug when I hear the tune regardless of lyrics. That includes the Man Ure apeing of it down south.

The words may be different but the connotation of THAT tune are one thing and one thing only.

Any set of fans apeing it are either ignorant of the connotations, complicit or both. Horrible tune.

 

[Jack]

"It's a fucking horrible song" as you put it. Aye it is if it's sung with the original words. When its sung by other teams fans (and i only know the words the 2 Dundee teams fans sing), i dinnae see what the big deal is. Is it OK for Hibs fans to sing about someone being 6 feet under? You've obviously got a bee in your bonnet about it so I'll leave you to deal with that.

I think they need to change more words.

They are a Scottish club. Or are they?

 

[Zab]

"It's a fucking horrible song" as you put it. Aye it is if it's sung with the original words. When its sung by other teams fans (and i only know the words the 2 Dundee teams fans sing), i dinnae see what the big deal is. Is it OK for Hibs fans to sing about someone being 6 feet under? You've obviously got a bee in your bonnet about it so I'll leave you to deal with that.

As I said other versions are used by the bigots to mask the real lyrics. The whole point of the thread is sectarianism being swept under the carpet. But it’s no problem if you disagree.

No the Mercer song isn’t ok really, but I don’t see it being comparable to referencing a 17th century battle.

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Re the Billy boys song, I react like a Pavlovian dug when I hear the tune regardless of lyrics. That includes the Man Ure apeing of it down south.

The words may be different but the connotation of THAT tune are one thing and one thing only.

Any set of fans apeing it are either ignorant of the connotations, complicit or both. Horrible tune.

Exactly how I feel about it.

 

[tricky]

No the Mercer song isn’t ok really, but I don’t see it being comparable to referencing a 17th century battle ‘

6
Do you sing Flower of Scotland? Celebrates old conflict.

 

[paigntonhibby]

" Those days are gone now,and in the past they must remain". unlike the bigot brothers songs trying tae make a 17th century battle in another country relevant tae 21st century Scotland

 

[Zab]

No the Mercer song isn’t ok really, but I don’t see it being comparable to referencing a 17th century battle ‘

Do you sing Flower of Scotland? Celebrates old conflict.

So, to be clear given the context of the discussion and not an isolated comment, you feel Flower of Scotland & The Billy Boys are comparable songs aye? Deary me.

It seems a few posters want to constantly go off topic rather than discuss the fact sectarian is being swept under the carpet, and how to stop that. Fair enough, sweep away, I give up on this one.

 

[Bobby_Combe]

Originally Posted by tricky

Originally Posted by HibeeZab

No the Mercer song isn’t ok really, but I don’t see it being comparable to referencing a 17th century battle ‘



Do you sing Flower of Scotland? Celebrates old conflict.



So, to be clear given the context of the discussion and not an isolated comment, you feel Flower of Scotland & The Billy Boys are comparable songs aye? Deary me.

It seems a few posters want to constantly go off topic rather than discuss the fact sectarian is being swept under the carpet, and how to stop that. Fair enough, sweep away, I give up on this one.


I think the Mercer song is tasteless and increasingly irrelevant given the length of time since Wally popped his clogs, and the number of obnoxious Jambos still alive we might be targeting with suitably insulting songs.

'Flower of Scotland' seems to me to be much more about Scots generally recovering a good conceit of ourselves and a sense of national pride than about doing anything nasty to the English. But it should be sung at a much faster tempo than it was last night. It's a good pipe tune but if the idea is that the crowd sings along I don't think the pipes are anything like an ideal accompaniment.

'Hullo Hullo' and similar songs drag football back into a religious and political conflict that's still killing people in NI (and potentially the UK as well) as well as reinforcing religious and racist bigotry as bad as anything we see on the lunatic fringes of the British Fascist Movement and their ideological children. Any mention of Derry or any other battle in 17th century Ireland (or 'the RA') surely does the same.

The trouble seems to me to be that supporting a football team can be an excuse for people to indulge anger and hatred over something which (hard hat on!) really isn't all that important in the great scheme of things.

 

[southfieldhibby]

Think we're all pretty much on the same page with this? Basically The Scottish authorities bring other clubs/fans into this equation when in reality the vast majority of the problem in football/life in general in Scotland revolves around Sevco/Celtc.

Even The Jambos by comparison are irrelevant.But it helps SFA/Holyrood electees to spread the blame.

 

[tricky]

just coming back to this and I accept my late Friday night comment about Flower of Scotland was facile, to suggest I was comparing it to the billy boys song is ludicrous and I have always been quick to condemn the antics of the Old Firm supports on here particularly the Huns.

was raised by someone in a pub debate the other week, is it the case that Scottish folk songs are acceptable around football but Irish folk songs are not?

the Killiecrankie song is very popular at Scotland internationals and is about a 17th century battle.

 

[1875]

just coming back to this and I accept my late Friday night comment about Flower of Scotland was facile, to suggest I was comparing it to the billy boys song is ludicrous and I have always been quick to condemn the antics of the Old Firm supports on here particularly the Huns.

was raised by someone in a pub debate the other week, is it the case that Scottish folk songs are acceptable around football but Irish folk songs are not?

the Killiecrankie song is very popular at Scotland internationals and is about a 17th century battle.

I dont think folk songs have a place at any football match, Scottish or Irish, worse those songs that are not folk songs but simple religious bigotry.