NHS Fife tribunal around trans doctor

Yep it's easier to ignore folk than argue your point.
It's a wee bit Stalinist when you used to see a photie of Stalin with 5 mates.

Who then get erased as their thoughts are double plus ungood.

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Don't be confused @FTJT. The majority of folk on here are not as you say mate because the majority of Bouncers have not even commented. In fact like most I have not commented leaving the same bunch of reactionary, snearing, mocking, condescending gobshites to get on with with their near pathological obsession with this topic. Polishing each other's ego at every turn along the way. Just another wee gang hut of several usual suspects that as I have said before has made this place insufferable to many, who have simply ceased to participate or moved on to do better things with their time. To those posters who do take on the wisdom of the Bounce Loony Right, all the best.
If idiots care to call names like 'Drama Queen' that gives these gentlepersons the giggles, ignore them mate.

BIG G
What's the communist view on women being asked to accept biological men in their spaces?
 
"reactionary, snearing, mocking, condescending gobshites to get on with with their near pathological obsession with this topic"


So again. What's the communist view?
 
And when are the noble working class sons and birthing persons of the toil going to rise up and man* the barricades?

*Sorry they/them/it's I meant.

You never give YOUR point of view G.? And not some well educated writer from Communism for the (lack of) masses.
 
Don't be confused @FTJT. The majority of folk on here are not as you say mate because the majority of Bouncers have not even commented. In fact like most I have not commented leaving the same bunch of reactionary, snearing, mocking, condescending gobshites to get on with with their near pathological obsession with this topic. Polishing each other's ego at every turn along the way. Just another wee gang hut of several usual suspects that as I have said before has made this place insufferable to many, who have simply ceased to participate or moved on to do better things with their time. To those posters who do take on the wisdom of the Bounce Loony Right, all the best.
If idiots care to call names like 'Drama Queen' that gives these gentlepersons the giggles, ignore them mate.

BIG G
What a load of judgemental pish. Just about everyone who has commented have said they don't care if someone is trans.
Deviants? Rapists? Lunatics? Child abusers? Fuck right off.
 
What a load of judgemental pish. Just about everyone who has commented have said they don't care if someone is trans.
Deviants? Rapists? Lunatics? Child abusers? Fuck right off.
Oi you have betrayed the revolution that no one cares about.
You'll end up in Cyberia.

I always considered some geezer who wants to go into a lassies changing room as being a bit of a perv or deviant.
 
Oi you have betrayed the revolution that no one cares about.
You'll end up in Cyberia.

I always considered some geezer who wants to go into a lassies changing room as being a bit of a perv or deviant.
That's one way to look at it Jimmy but nobody is using the terms quoted. Outrageous drama queenery.
 
That's one way to look at it Jimmy but nobody is using the terms quoted. Outrageous drama queenery.
Aye I know mate. But there are those revolutionarys who refuse to give their views because they are shite.

It's no compulsory to post on threads. But spitting your dummy out because others have just as strong views is infantile and a brilliant example of the modern intolerant illiberal liberals.

Hurty words (even factually true) means run away.

And still the red front is quiet.
 
At the end of the day transgender men can dress like a woman, act like a woman change their genetalia etc. etc but:-
 

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At the end of the day transgender men can dress like a woman, act like a woman change their genetalia etc. etc but:-
Shhh Joe. That will make you a reactionary. You try to answer a question where the red front want to silence the same question.
 
"reactionary, snearing, mocking, condescending gobshites to get on with with their near pathological obsession with this topic"


So again. What's the communist view?
Here's one from a couple of years ago regarding the Scottish Government's proposed GRA that was vetoed by Westminster.

 
Everyone has the right to be what they want to be and I get tomboy girls wanting to be boys/men but I can’t see why men want to be a woman why not just be a transvestite and dress in women’s clothes if that is their want unless there is more to it but heyho 🤷‍♂️
 
I think people reading this case will think the world is mad. Aside from the individual issues for the nurse, it's a classic class based approach to support the Doctor. Would they be so vociferous if it was the other way about.

It also enables the Trump's of the world who tag team cases like this with race, sexuality, disability and women's rights to have a war on woke. In other words pushback against social progress.
You're right Archie. Gender ideology is very middle class. Here's Cynthia Nixon of Sex and the City fame. Both her kids are trans, her best friend's kid is trans, her kid's best friend is trans and her niece is trans. What are the odds? But no, it's not a social contagion.

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You're right Archie. Gender ideology is very middle class. Here's Cynthia Nixon of Sex and the City fame. Both her kids are trans, her best friend's kid is trans, her kid's best friend is trans and her niece is trans. What are the odds? But no, it's not a social contagion.

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Yup, self reinforcing anaw. These people are never wrong, so what they have done, becomes evidence that more of it needs to be done. And they were in charge till a few weeks ago.
 
Aye the French Revolution led the way in getting rid of 'comrades', first
 
Yup, self reinforcing anaw. These people are never wrong, so what they have done, becomes evidence that more of it needs to be done. And they were in charge till a few weeks ago.
And there is no going back for those people. They're all in and have to double down.

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And there is no going back for those people. They're all in and have to double down.

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Spot on. Same goes for educators, doctors, the lot. It’s frightening.
 
I read part of the transcript of her cross-examination. Absolutely vile. The sort of stuff you would expect from a 70s rape trial. Like she's in the wrong and the hairy-arsed bloke invading her personal space when she is trying to undress is the real victim. 🤬

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I read the cross examination on the Tribunal Tweets Twitter feed. The KC for the NHS was desperate for his "you can't handle the truth" moment. Fair play to the nurse for keeping calm and collected.
 
I read the cross examination on the Tribunal Tweets Twitter feed. The KC for the NHS was desperate for his "you can't handle the truth" moment. Fair play to the nurse for keeping calm and collected.
The KC is actually a woman, Jane Russell, which somehow makes it even worse. The cross examination of Maya Forstater was fun. She really wasn't taking any crap from the KC.
 
Not many of the intolerant illiberal liberal front have mentioned the nurse or HER rights.

Is she a non they/them/it now.

Woman's rights
When do we want them?
We don't
They can fuck off
 
I do find it difficult sometimes to read these threads. I've got a fair number of trans folk I'd call friends - not doing an inventory here but at least 20 - of varying identities and...genital starting points... and every time I come on the cowshed and the sluice gate is opened to people saying just rancid things about them - a clear majority of posters describing my friends, people they've never met and would go out of their way to never meet, as deviants, rapists, lunatics and/or child abusers...

Most of my gay/trans friends absolutely wouldn't go near a football stadium, because they associate the sport with the people who want to see their heads kicked in on principle. And I always liked to imagine the bounce as a reasonable space filled with like-minded individuals, normal folk who enjoy the sport and have some sense of it as a social good, of easter road as a sort of secular church, who were proud of the charitable side of things in equal measure to their fondness for Le God holding his teeth.

And these days I think my friends are maybe right, and Hibs fans are no different to any others, and the bigotry we all decry in the Huns is in fine health as long as the target is a minority it's socially acceptable to hate.

It's fucking miserable.
I'm sorry you feel that. I think there's a range of opinions here. My personal opinion is that people should be able to live as they wish to live. I also recognise that in doing that there can be conflicting rights where there has to be a resolution. Do you have any empathy with the nurse's position?

As an aside I think it's misplaced to assume that people here don't have a wide spread of relationships with people of different backgrounds that will have shaped our views. For example I know lesbians who are against at being tag teamed with trans activists.
 
I'm sorry you feel that. I think there's a range of opinions here. My personal opinion is that people should be able to live as they wish to live. I also recognise that in doing that there can be conflicting rights where there has to be a resolution. Do you have any empathy with the nurse's position?

As an aside I think it's misplaced to assume that people here don't have a wide spread of relationships with people of different backgrounds that will have shaped our views. For example I know lesbians who are against at being tag teamed with trans activists.
Archie. Well said. But the intolerant ones do not like dissent.

And na the nurse of 30 years is obviously a jk rowling witch type person.

Imagine no accepting a cupboard to change in? How horrific.

I'll bet there are trans folk horrified by this look at poor me from the doctor.

You know trans folk who want to get on with life and not look for a go fund me page (no set up YET).

Then the red front who condemn everyone as reactionary but offer no point of their own.

And I would hazard a guess that most folk in Scotland wouldnthink a geezer who wants to go into a lassies changing room is some kind of pervert.

They used to be years ago.
 
I appreciate you might not want to contribute further to this thread, but I'd be interested to know from someone with closer personal ties to the trans community what sort of takes there are on the female only space question.
Varying levels of patience, I'd say. Anecdotally, the trans men are mostly pretty loudly unimpressed by all forms of the argument and the trans women are just anxious not to be seen as a threat/screamed at in the middle of river island.

'Female only spaces' covers a few things, and I don't want to make myself the mouthpiece for multiple people and multiple opinions, some of who are very militant about their right to be respected and others who are very keen on appeasing people who might kill them otherwise. But I think it would be, if not representative, at least not likely to start a fight if they were all in a room to lay out something like:
* cis-only DV shelters are fine - or would be fine - if there's also suitable capacity for trans DV victims. Accomodating the nuances of someone's trauma is one thing, purposefully rendering someone else unsafe or homeless to do it is another
* there's a difference between a 6'5 trans prop forward and someone joining a women's darts league - more generally, when it comes to sports, safety is more important than inclusion but inclusion is more important than fairness, particularly wrt intersex athletes. If male swimmers had to deal with Michael Phelps having oars for arms and flippers for feet, female runners can deal with Castor Semenya having slightly higher vo2 max
* Most inpatient wards are mixed sex, and the exceptions are at the mercy of availability. Getting precious about who's in the next bed is a stunt
* most personal care in hospital is offered by cis women because most nurses and HCAs are cis women. There are staff shortages everywhere. If you don't want trans staff involved, you're free to refuse their care, but make your peace with nobody else being available. Same as folk kicking off about black nurses
* The idea that self ID will lead to a series of rapes in changing rooms and toilets is bullshit - it hasn't happened anywhere that's implemented it, and more to the point, men have never needed a pretext to assault women in public spaces. And if they really want to camouflage themselves, they can just walk in carrying a mop

One thing that's definitely not contentious but never discussed more widely is that the provisions available in terms of bogs, changing rooms etc for people looking to avoid hassle are pretty poor - so lots of gyms where accessible changing is inside the ladies, or the disabled toilets need a radar key, or where you still have to walk through a changing room to get to the equipment. Trying to get to a swimming pool as unobtrusively as possible isn't always easy.
 
Not many of the intolerant illiberal liberal front have mentioned the nurse or HER rights.

Is she a non they/them/it now.

Woman's rights
When do we want them?
We don't
They can fuck off
It’s actually disgraceful how women are treated in the world, be it domestic abuse, misogyny, taliban, etc.etc.etc