Net Zero target

[gun ainm]

If any businesses could make net zero easily it's the banking sector, paper shuffling and charging interest doesn't do much but make money and they have the moolah to plant trees everywhere.

This shows just how cynical industry is - when they thought this was good for their brand they will sign up to anything.

I am genuinely confused about why a bank going net zero doesn't makes sense though Burbank, are you a shareholder?

 

[BurbankHibee]

If any businesses could make net zero easily it's the banking sector, paper shuffling and charging interest doesn't do much but make money and they have the moolah to plant trees everywhere.

It’s about who they lend to. There’s plenty money to be made in the oil and gas sector but the NZBA said they weren’t going to lend to these types industries.

This shows just how cynical industry is - when they thought this was good for their brand they will sign up to anything.

HSBC decision to opt out may be due to a recent change in the CEO. And pressure from shareholders of course.

I am genuinely confused about why a bank going net zero doesn't makes sense though Burbank, are you a shareholder?

The whole Net Zero religion is economic suicide. No I don’t have shares in HSBC.

 

[gun ainm]

It’s about who they lend to. There’s plenty money to be made in the oil and gas sector but the NZBA said they weren’t going to lend to these types industries.

HSBC decision to opt out may be due to a recent change in the CEO. And pressure from shareholders of course.

The whole Net Zero religion is economic suicide. No I don’t have shares in HSBC.

Makes sense, thanks for the mini explainer. If they are counting impact of everything that they lend on that's very different. I think that aiming towards net zero is a good thing each business or country needs a way of making good choices and carbon and other emissions need factored in but it won't be really practical for everyone to actually reach net zero and we need to recognise that. I'm deeply suspicious of off setting as an industry anyway even though I am also sure some good is done somewhere.

 

[blue toon hibby]

Makes sense, thanks for the mini explainer. If they are counting impact of everything that they lend on that's very different. I think that aiming towards net zero is a good thing each business or country needs a way of making good choices and carbon and other emissions need factored in but it won't be really practical for everyone to actually reach net zero and we need to recognise that. I'm deeply suspicious of off setting as an industry anyway even though I am also sure some good is done somewhere.

Offsetting emissions, to me anyway, is a huge cop-out - a bit like dumping all your rubbish in your neighbour’s garden - unless of course your neighbour is a right &***

 

[Bangkokhibby]

Offsetting emissions, to me anyway, is a huge cop-out - a bit like dumping all your rubbish in your neighbour’s garden - unless of course your neighbour is a right &***

I remember hearing Chevron bought spare emission permissions from other companies. True? Wouldn't put it past them. Devious bastards.
The helicopter pilots flying to the Alba platform used to joke that if it got too foggy they would just fly low and follow the permanent slick on the water.

 

[egb_hibs]

Makes sense, thanks for the mini explainer. If they are counting impact of everything that they lend on that's very different. I think that aiming towards net zero is a good thing each business or country needs a way of making good choices and carbon and other emissions need factored in but it won't be really practical for everyone to actually reach net zero and we need to recognise that. I'm deeply suspicious of off setting as an industry anyway even though I am also sure some good is done somewhere.

Another round of their infamous ads celebrating global capitalism as diversity should help wash it R. Worked before, at a time when they should have been more associated with laundering cartel money.

 

[BurbankHibee]

New Zealand’s government has voted to resume oil and gas exploration despite an outcry from the opposition and environmental groups who argue the reversal will lay waste to the country’s climate credentials. In 2018, the Jacinda Ardern-led Labour government banned the granting of new offshore oil and gas exploration permits as part of its plan to transition toward a carbon-neutral future.

Gruaniad

New Zealand waking up to reality. Milliband is going to drive the UK into poverty.

 

[BurbankHibee]

Reality hits Barclays.

Barclays has become the second UK bank to withdraw from a UN-backed net zero target-setting group, claiming that a wave of defections by international lenders meant it was no longer fit for purpose.

Guardian

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Any yous ITK about net zero does what this geezer say ring true?....

The price of energy and the system costs of renewables - Dieter Helm

Why is the price of electricity so high? It’s a puzzle, because successive politicians (Blair, Cameron, May, Johnson and now Starmer and Miliband) and lots of lobbyists have told us we should have expected quite the opposite: cheap energy, to be achieved by getting out of fossil fuels. First...

dieterhelm.co.uk

 

[BurbankHibee]

Any yous ITK about net zero does what this geezer say ring true?....

Have a look at your electricity bill. Has the amount you are being charged for electricity gone up significantly or has it gone down at all?

If it is anything like California you will have seen an increase.

Net Zero is economic suicide and as the article you inked to pointed out will have very little impact in reducing emissions of GHGs and will probably increase emissions.

The idiots that run the state of California went on a mission to drive out "big oil" from the state. Over the years they have chased out oil refineries to the extent that we are now faced with importing gas/petrol from dodgy regimes in far off places by ship. So any reduction in emissions by chasing the refineries out of town is made up by importing from other countries and we get to pay a lot more for gas than any other state bar Hawaii.

Net Zero is an irrational religion.

 

[BurbankHibee]

I think the rise in cost is probably underestimated.

Britain’s biggest energy supplier has told MPs that bills are on track to climb by a fifth in the next four years, even if wholesale markets plummet, because of the rising cost of government policies. An executive at Octopus Energy said household energy bills were likely to rise by 20% unless the government took radical action to address the burden of increasing “non-commodity costs”, even in a scenario where wholesale electricity prices fell by half.

Guardian

It should be obvious to most people by now that "clean/green renewable energy" is cheaper than 'fossil fuels' is a complete lie.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

It’s interesting that China is investing so much in renewables and reducing coal use….

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[Archie]

It’s interesting that China is investing so much in renewables and reducing coal use….

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Air quality is a huge issue in China. One that creates a lot of public unrest.

 

[Keepitgreen]

I think the rise in cost is probably underestimated.



Guardian

It should be obvious to most people by now that "clean/green renewable energy" is cheaper than 'fossil fuels' is a complete lie.

Interested in this BH, as the obvious thing to do is to point at the sun, the sea, the windy trees and say - well that's all free. So do you mean it's more costly in the sense that getting the infrastructure built to harness it is expensive? And then the follow-on would be, it'll be cheap thereafter?

Also the thing about fossil fuels being finite, so we might as well get our finger out and harness the clean stuff sooner or later before it runs out.

 

[BurbankHibee]

Interested in this BH, as the obvious thing to do is to point at the sun, the sea, the windy trees and say - well that's all free. So do you mean it's more costly in the sense that getting the infrastructure built to harness it is expensive? And then the follow-on would be, it'll be cheap thereafter?

lol, not hardly. If these things are so cheap then why are your energy bills ALWAYS increasing and not decreasing?

Also the thing about fossil fuels being finite, so we might as well get our finger out and harness the clean stuff sooner or later before it runs out.

There is plenty oil and gas available. If you want cheap, reliable energy then nuclear is the way to go.

 

[emerald green]

lol, not hardly. If these things are so cheap then why are your energy bills ALWAYS increasing and not decreasing?



There is plenty oil and gas available. If you want cheap, reliable energy then nuclear is the way to go.

yep.

 

[Keepitgreen]

lol, not hardly. If these things are so cheap then why are your energy bills ALWAYS increasing and not decreasing?

Its a good question, but I didn't think the answer is that clean energy is more expensive than fossil?

There is plenty oil and gas available. If you want cheap, reliable energy then nuclear is the way to go.

I agree that nuclear needs to be part of the solution - although its been a nightmare how bad successive UK governments have been at getting the stations setup.

I dont agree that we can ignore fossil fuel running out though, is that not considered fact?

 

[BurbankHibee]

Its a good question, but I didn't think the answer is that clean energy is more expensive than fossil?

Oil and gas are cheaper and more reliable than "clean energy".

I agree that nuclear needs to be part of the solution - although its been a nightmare how bad successive UK governments have been at getting the stations setup.

Solution to what exactly?

I dont agree that we can ignore fossil fuel running out though, is that not considered fact?

Sure it will run out eventually but right now it is abundant, cheap and new discoveries are being made, new technologies (such as fracking) are available to extract even more. Oil and gas will be the primary source of energy for quite a while. For the longer term, then nuclear should be in the energy mix.

 

[Keepitgreen]

Oil and gas are cheaper and more reliable than "clean energy".

You did say that but I'm asking how you know that?

Solution to what exactly?

To the problem that fossil fuels are changing our climate and will run out.

Sure it will run out eventually but right now it is abundant, cheap and new discoveries are being made, new technologies (such as fracking) are available to extract even more. Oil and gas will be the primary source of energy for quite a while. For the longer term, then nuclear should be in the energy mix.

Fracking? The consequences of that don't seem worth it. But yeah knowing fossil fuels will run out, I do think it's worth trying get the solutions in place before that happens. Are you just more chill about leaving it late? Fair enough.

 

[BurbankHibee]

You did say that but I'm asking how you know that?

Don't be coy, it's not hard to find it out. Take a look at your electricity bill for a start. Has the cost gone up or down?

To the problem that fossil fuels are changing our climate

Not really in evidence.

and will run out.

Eventually but there is no urgency right now.

Fracking? The consequences of that don't seem worth it. But yeah knowing fossil fuels will run out, I do think it's worth trying get the solutions in place before that happens. Are you just more chill about leaving it late? Fair enough.

By late you mean decades in the future? There is not much chance of oil and gas running out any time soon. If it is such a concern, then the option would be to start implementing nuclear. Which is being discussed.

 

[Beagle]

I’d be surprised if the world’s governments haven’t realised that the oil that is refined to produce fuel and propellant for their military operations is eventually going to dry up.

 

[blue toon hibby]

Oil and gas are cheaper and more reliable than "clean energy".



Solution to what exactly?



Sure it will run out eventually but right now it is abundant, cheap and new discoveries are being made, new technologies (such as fracking) are available to extract even more. Oil and gas will be the primary source of energy for quite a while. For the longer term, then nuclear should be in the energy mix.

We were fracking wells in the North Sea 32+ years ago, not exactly new technology. As for oil running out, I was told in 1993 that the Valhall field would last another 5 years - it has since expanded beyond recognition and has many years of production ahead.

 

[BurbankHibee]

We were fracking wells in the North Sea 32+ years ago, not exactly new technology.

Advancements on an existing technology then?

As for oil running out, I was told in 1993 that the Valhall field would last another 5 years - it has since expanded beyond recognition and has many years of production ahead.

I vaguely recall a fair bit of hysteria about "peak oil" in the past. There is loads of oil and gas out there that is known about and probably just as much that is not known about. But Ed Miliband is determined to condemn you to be poorer and colder and destroy large swathes of the countryside to achieve it.

 

[blue toon hibby]

Advancements on an existing technology then?


I vaguely recall a fair bit of hysteria about "peak oil" in the past. There is loads of oil and gas out there that is known about and probably just as much that is not known about. But Ed Miliband is determined to condemn you to be poorer and colder and destroy large swathes of the countryside to achieve it.

Not to mention the tens of thousands of people losing their jobs or going abroad for work, thereby reducing the tax revenue in the UK. Sir Keir thinks they’ll all be retrained to work in the renewables sector - Sir Keir needs a reality check.

 

[Ryan69]

The biggest problem is that..Theresa May achieved her aim.

She signed up to that bullshit.

That was the whole idea of such a useless beehatch being in that position.

So now were locked in and if we dont meet targets..we get Donald Ducked.

Net Zero is a scam.

Well forget about the child slaves mining cobalt,well forget about trying to recycle wind turbines,well forget about transporting it all in diesel ships.

The same people making money from Net Zero...are the same people that made money from the Covid scam!

 

[Sancho Panza]

The biggest problem is that..Theresa May achieved her aim.

She signed up to that bullshit.

That was the whole idea of such a useless beehatch being in that position.

So now were locked in and if we dont meet targets..we get Donald Ducked.

Net Zero is a scam.

Well forget about the child slaves mining cobalt,well forget about trying to recycle wind turbines,well forget about transporting it all in diesel ships.

The same people making money from Net Zero...are the same people that made money from the Covid scam!

It's all related!

 

[PILTONSTANY]

It’s the price of Gas that keeps our Electricity bills high….

You can read about it here

Why Are Energy Prices So High? Are They Going Up? | Bionic

💡 We look at why energy prices have been increasing and ask will they ever come back down? Will a price cap rise affect businesses? And what can you do to save money? 🦾

bionic.co.uk

 

[blue toon hibby]

It’s the price of Gas that keeps our Electricity bills high….

You can read about it here

Why Are Energy Prices So High? Are They Going Up? | Bionic

💡 We look at why energy prices have been increasing and ask will they ever come back down? Will a price cap rise affect businesses? And what can you do to save money? 🦾

bionic.co.uk

The old con trick of persuading people to sign up for “clean” renewable energy but failing to tell them that the price is governed by gas prices. Or sign up for our cheapest tariff until a cheaper one comes along and find it’ll cost you £100 to switch. It’s a potential minefield and the numpties running the country are either naive in the extreme or blatant liars.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Blatant liars would be correct.

 

[PILTONSTANY]

The old con trick of persuading people to sign up for “clean” renewable energy but failing to tell them that the price is governed by gas prices. Or sign up for our cheapest tariff until a cheaper one comes along and find it’ll cost you £100 to switch. It’s a potential minefield and the numpties running the country are either naive in the extreme or blatant liars.

The Gov could decouple the link between Gas and Electricity to lower prices but choose not to, As usual big business rules.

 

[Archie]

The Gov could decouple the link between Gas and Electricity to lower prices but choose not to, As usual big business rules.

They could, but wouldn't that lead to supply issues, given that gas turbines are used to generate electricity when renewables and nuclear don't meet demand?

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Ooops looks like it's one law for us and another law for them.....

 

[1 Mcnamara]

We got told in the run up to 2014 that the oil was about to run, so it must be just about be dry by now.
It's not like anybody was going to lie to us, so it must be true.

 

[blue toon hibby]

We got told in the run up to 2014 that the oil was about to run, so it must be just about be dry by now.
It's not like anybody was going to lie to us, so it must be true.

Who told you that?

 

[1 Mcnamara]

Who told you that?

Labour, Tories, Michelle Mone, Gordon Brown, the BBC, the Queen and every other union jack shagger

 

[blue toon hibby]

Labour, Tories, Michelle Mone, Gordon Brown, the BBC, the Queen and every other union jack shagger

None of them had even seen an oily rag, let alone read a seismic chart.

 

[Hibee Kev]

North Sea services giant enters administration:

North Sea oil and gas firm Petrofac files for administration

The energy services provider, which had been undergoing a financial restructuring, employs about 2,000 people in Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not related to net zero targets though, mismanagement and corruption scandals globally to blame I think. They were a shambles when I worked for them.

 

[blue toon hibby]

North Sea services giant enters administration:

North Sea oil and gas firm Petrofac files for administration

The energy services provider, which had been undergoing a financial restructuring, employs about 2,000 people in Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not related to net zero targets though, mismanagement and corruption scandals globally to blame I think. They were a shambles when I worked for them.

potential nail in their coffin was a wind turbine contract from which a Dutch company withdrew -ironic or what?

 

[Keepitgreen]

Don't be coy, it's not hard to find it out. Take a look at your electricity bill for a start. Has the cost gone up or down?

Sorry BH I forgot about this thread.

And it's you being coy - bills may have gone up but you've not said why clean energy is to blame. You say it, can you explain it?

For me, I'm full of suspicion that the energy companies have just been their usual greedy selves. And geopolitical events have influenced the bills. And price-fixing shenanigans. The list goes on. But interested in your certainty here that high bills are down to clean energy.

There's also the fact that the cost of clean energy has been decreasing exponentially for ages now, it's made itself the absolute top choice for energy in a loads of places. For example, have you seen how much solar Texas handles now? Texas mind, like, not exactly a hotbed of greenpeace, tree-hugger types! Oh and China. The numbers coming out of there just now clean energy wise are phenomenal.

Not really in evidence.

Ah. Man-made climate change denier. I'd have a go at changing your mind - like saying, you know 97% of climate scientists agree that warming is man-made right? - but I'd guess there's not much point.

Must say I'm a little surprised though, even if you think these scientists are full of shit, you'll have seen first-hand the significant rise in California wildfires in recent years too? Bad luck?

Eventually but there is no urgency right now.

Cool, everyone has their own feelings on what's urgent to them I guess.

By late you mean decades in the future? There is not much chance of oil and gas running out any time soon. If it is such a concern, then the option would be to start implementing nuclear. Which is being discussed.

Yeah as said before I agree nuclear can have a role to play, the new mini-reactors being talked about sound better than the shitshow ones like Sizewell. However, with the clean energy costs continuing to drop, it'll make more and more economic sense to get this stuff built sooner rather than later, never mind for climate change reasons. That might be the tipping point really, ironically enough, to save the planet; greed.

 

[Bofahibee]

The figure that often gets missed in this debate are the subsidies paid to the oil and gas industry every year. Last year globally it was apparently $1.7 trillion. The International Monetary Fund have also calculated the cost to the global economy from environmental damage due to our continued use of fossil fuels - presumably due to flooding and more intense storms etc. When those costs are factored in, the cost to the global economy works out at about $7 trillion per year. By comparison, globally we currently spend about £420 billion in subsidies to phase out oil and gas. Even if we ignore the environmental costs, we are subsidising fossil fuels at a rate of 4:1 compared with renewables.

In the UK we subsidise the Oil and Gas industry to the tune of £17.5 billion a year. We're also pumping some £21.7 billion into Carbon Capture and storage which is of doubtful long-term benefit.