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Keepitgreen said:
So gents, is this cash that should be given to the SG for them to use as they see fit according to devo rules, or is it more that it would be the nicer thing to do? Cos I agree theres a difference (putting aside whether its a good idea by UKG or not)
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Basically the Scottish Government is allowed to spend the money, kindly given to it by Westminster, on devolved matters.

The UK government can spend what it likes, on whatever it likes. It can and does, for example, bypass the Scottish Government giving money directly to local authorities to spend on what are reserved matters.

The latter didn't happen until quite recently.
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
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BIG G
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Having just watched the news about the Mandelson files just now, the above video is testimony to the utter hypocrisy of UK MSM and political elites regarding this. Worth a 15 watch, folks .

BIG G
 
They'll let them build a big fuckoff embassy in London but...

Labour confirms it will block Chinese firm Ming Yang from opening £1.5bn wind turbine factory in Scotland over national security fears
 
hibbybilly said:
They'll let them build a big fuckoff embassy in London but...

Labour confirms it will block Chinese firm Ming Yang from opening £1.5bn wind turbine factory in Scotland over national security fears
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This was former SNP MP Stewart McDonald's view when he was an MP:

BBC News - MP's China security fears over North Sea wind project - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk

MP's China security fears over North Sea wind project

Stewart McDonald said a "hostile state" company had been given priority status in the North Sea.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Archie said:
UK Government - obviously. But as I posted some in the SNP didn't want it to happen either. McDonald had been the SNP defence spokesperson at Westminster.
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Labour Government you mean? Is McDonald still an MP?
Dave Doogan is.
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hibbybilly said:
Labour Government you mean? Is McDonald still an MP?
Dave Doogan is.
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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
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So you think there is no national security issue? Stewart McDonald did. Was he wrong?
 
Archie said:
So you think there is no national security issue? Stewart McDonald did. Was he wrong?
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I never said I think there is a risk. I was comparing sites for Chinese projects, their Embassy in London isnae a risk according tae Starmer, so why is the Scottish site thought tae be a risk. Is Stewart McDonald still an MP?
 
Archie said:
So you think there is no national security issue? Stewart McDonald did. Was he wrong?
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I don't think that was the point being made. The point was clear that Chinese funded projects in England aren't considered risky, including a nuclear site, but a wind turbine outfit in Scotland would be.
 
Dub said:
I don't think that was the point being made. The point was clear that Chinese funded projects in England aren't considered risky, including a nuclear site, but a wind turbine outfit in Scotland would be.
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Do you think that's it: projects in England ok projects in Scotland no?
 
Archie said:
Do you think that's it: projects in England ok projects in Scotland no?
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Explain it to me then because clearly you must think I'm thick. How else can all these Chinese projects in England not be potentially risky, but the one project in Scotland is?
 
Dub said:
Explain it to me then because clearly you must think I'm thick. How else can all these Chinese projects in England not be potentially risky, but the one project in Scotland is?
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Because there will be a number of factors at play which won't be the same for each project. I go back to the fact that one former SNP MP and spokesman was very concerned about the Scottish project.

I just think turning these issues into Westminster grievances doesn't really address the seriousness of it all.

BTW of course I don't think you are 'thick'. Partisan yes, but 'thick' no.
 
Archie said:
Because there will be a number of factors at play which won't be the same for each project
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Like 1 is being built in the middle of London, 1 in the middle of England? And Starmer disnae like Scotland.
Labour, like the Tories last time, will get wiped out in Scotland.
 
Archie said:
Because there will be a number of factors at play which won't be the same for each project. I go back to the fact that one former SNP MP and spokesman was very concerned about the Scottish project.

I just think turning these issues into Westminster grievances doesn't really address the seriousness of it all.

BTW of course I don't think you are 'thick'. Partisan yes, but 'thick' no.
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I'm not turning it into a grievance. I'm turning it into common sense. Everything in England, including a nuclear power station and the biggest Airport in the UK, is okay to be in Chinese hands, but wind turbines in Scotland aren't. I think you'd have to be pretty naive not to see this as at least odd.
 
Dub said:
I'm not turning it into a grievance. I'm turning it into common sense. Everything in England, including a nuclear power station and the biggest Airport in the UK, is okay to be in Chinese hands, but wind turbines in Scotland aren't. I think you'd have to be pretty naive not to see this as at least odd.
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Probs Just worrying that the Chinese agents at the Scottish wind turbines site would send back such shocking reports of the local weather it would put any future investors off the UK 😉
 
Dub said:
I'm not turning it into a grievance. I'm turning it into common sense. Everything in England, including a nuclear power station and the biggest Airport in the UK, is okay to be in Chinese hands, but wind turbines in Scotland aren't. I think you'd have to be pretty naive not to see this as at least odd.
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There's a difference between Chinese investment and being in Chinese hands. Hinkley Point is run by EDF which has a majority stake. Heathrow is run by an international infrastructure company. Chinese shareholding is 10%. These are not in 'Chinese hands'.

This is not the same as a wholly owned company.

I don't know the detailed reasons why the UKG turned this down. But surely you'd acknowledge that it might be for other reasons than to screw over Scotland?
 
I don’t recall any outcry when the Chinese took over one of the major North Sea oil companies a number of years ago. Surely that could have posed a threat to national security?
 
Archie said:
There's a difference between Chinese investment and being in Chinese hands. Hinkley Point is run by EDF which has a majority stake. Heathrow is run by an international infrastructure company. Chinese shareholding is 10%. These are not in 'Chinese hands'.

This is not the same as a wholly owned company.

I don't know the detailed reasons why the UKG turned this down. But surely you'd acknowledge that it might be for other reasons than to screw over Scotland?
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What I think is that you're turning in to an apologist for Westminster governance Archie. If you're standing in the middle of a forest and you can't see the wood for the trees, it's probably because you're deliberately blind.
 
blue toon hibby said:
I don’t recall any outcry when the Chinese took over one of the major North Sea oil companies a number of years ago. Surely that could have posed a threat to national security?
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Come on Marsh, it's not wind turbines or anything as important as that.
 
Dub said:
What I think is that you're turning in to an apologist for Westminster governance Archie. If you're standing in the middle of a forest and you can't see the wood for the trees, it's probably because you're deliberately blind.
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You're at liberty to think what you like. I note you don't address any of the substantive points I made.
 
Dub said:
What I find laughable is that you think you made substantive points.
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OK. You may find it laughable, but you said Hinkley Point and Heathrow were in Chinese hands. I pointed out that this wasn't the case. In Heathrow's case the Australian retirement fund has a bigger share than China.

I just wish there could be a serious discussion on these issues rather than default to a grievance. A legitimate question would be why is Hinkley Point in foreign ownership at all? Equally, Heathrow Airport's biggest shareholders are Qatari - again a legitimate discussion over whether this is a good thing.

But no - let's have a grievance rammy instead. Start with a meme - there's always a meme. Whether by accident or design conflate investment and ownership and say what's the difference? And the punchline - 'it's not happening because it's in Scotland'.

So a substantive point: does it not give you any pause for thought that the former SNP defence spokesperson is vocally against this deal? In addition, do you seriously believe that there is no national security issue with China?
 
I might be totally making this up but didn't the SNP block welding apprenticeships because they would be used in the defence industry and don't they support the stopping of drilling/ production of oil and gas.
There's a few 1000 jobs just there.
As an independence supporter from the mid 70s it galls me to say not all Scotland ills can be laid at westminsters door.
And if I could vote in Scotland now I would have to think long and hard about who I voted for, not an automatic SNP cross as in the past
 
Archie said:
OK. You may find it laughable, but you said Hinkley Point and Heathrow were in Chinese hands. I pointed out that this wasn't the case. In Heathrow's case the Australian retirement fund has a bigger share than China.

I just wish there could be a serious discussion on these issues rather than default to a grievance. A legitimate question would be why is Hinkley Point in foreign ownership at all? Equally, Heathrow Airport's biggest shareholders are Qatari - again a legitimate discussion over whether this is a good thing.

But no - let's have a grievance rammy instead. Start with a meme - there's always a meme. Whether by accident or design conflate investment and ownership and say what's the difference? And the punchline - 'it's not happening because it's in Scotland'.

So a substantive point: does it not give you any pause for thought that the former SNP defence spokesperson is vocally against this deal? In addition, do you seriously believe that there is no national security issue with China?
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Aren't half our railway companies foreign owned , and our utility companies. You're right, the question should be why is that allowed.
On another note I dont want to see our countryside covered in wind and solar farms. Which will probably be foreign owned
 
Archie said:
OK. You may find it laughable, but you said Hinkley Point and Heathrow were in Chinese hands. I pointed out that this wasn't the case. In Heathrow's case the Australian retirement fund has a bigger share than China.

I just wish there could be a serious discussion on these issues rather than default to a grievance. A legitimate question would be why is Hinkley Point in foreign ownership at all? Equally, Heathrow Airport's biggest shareholders are Qatari - again a legitimate discussion over whether this is a good thing.

But no - let's have a grievance rammy instead. Start with a meme - there's always a meme. Whether by accident or design conflate investment and ownership and say what's the difference? And the punchline - 'it's not happening because it's in Scotland'.

So a substantive point: does it not give you any pause for thought that the former SNP defence spokesperson is vocally against this deal? In addition, do you seriously believe that there is no national security issue with China?
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You're quite correct, none of these things should be in foreign hands but they are. I've not got a grievance so try and not put words in my mouth.

Why are you laser focused one one person from the snp being against the turbines deal. If it's only one that means that a massive percentage weren't.

There could well be national security issues but, the Chinese have fingers in plenty pies in England and nobody seems to bat an eyelid.
 
Dub said:
You're quite correct, none of these things should be in foreign hands but they are. I've not got a grievance so try and not put words in my mouth.

Why are you laser focused one one person from the snp being against the turbines deal. If it's only one that means that a massive percentage weren't.

There could well be national security issues but, the Chinese have fingers in plenty pies in England and nobody seems to bat an eyelid.
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The laser focus is that the former SNP MP was the defence spokesperson. They felt sufficiently concerned to go public. This strongly suggests it's more than a Scottish Government vs Labour issue. But you do acknowledge there could be national security issues.

As for nobody bats an eyelid, we've had people charged with spying for China, including a person elected as a Labour MP's husband!

I think the National probably set out the underlying issue here with its front page splash: 'Deliberate timing on Labour no to £1.5bn factory. Swinney's accusation as he launches SNP election campaign.'
 
Archie said:
I think the National probably set out the underlying issue here with its front page splash: 'Deliberate timing on Labour no to £1.5bn factory.
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Probably the only way Scottish folk will see it because there's nae chance the BBC will have it on their news page.
 
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