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Smurf said:
Interesting and gives a different perspective.

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It gives an Israeli perspective certainly. A Palestinian perspective - written in Spanish - though? Who knows :102:
 
HibeeBizzle said:
Em. I think you’ll find I said fuck both of them. I’m justifying zip. You however clearly have a horse in the race and have firmly chosen a side.

Don’t try to uno reverse me. Have you got blue hair by any chance?

@GORDONSMITH7 you’ve completely ignored me since I provided evidence of reality. Any word on it yet or will you just live on in blind socialist denial? Wee G’s no a fan of anything other than his own imagined reality.
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Why would I have blue hair. What an idiotic comment to make but not entirely surprising. I think you'll find I've previously said that I abhor the violence committed by both sides so stop trying to put words in my mouth.

What I have said is that one side is doing a fuck load more slaughtering than the other side. But let's go back to this rabbit hole that you've accused me of going down just because I turned your words round which clearly you don't like.
 
To quote Golda Meyer,
We can forgove muslims for killing our children we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. Until.they learn to love their children more than they hate us there will never be peace.
 
paigntonhibby said:
To quote Golda Meyer,
We can forgove muslims for killing our children we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. Until.they learn to love their children more than they hate us there will never be peace.
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Yeah, forcing them to kill Muslims 🙄

⚠️⚠️⚠️ Israeli soldiers confirm - intentional, arbitrary mass murder of Palestinians in Gaza. No surprise, but new facts are revealed by a leading German newspaper.


"⭕️ Israeli reservist tells Der Spiegel his unit killed Palestinians who approached hidden positions, then logged them as terrorists


The soldier, who spent about 250 days in Gaza, described a procedure his unit often used called “Alman Kasch,” in which troops take up concealed positions in areas that have not been evacuated and open fire on anyone who comes near.


“If Palestinians, who do not know that our soldiers are there, approach, they are shelled. Usually other people come along who want to help, they are also shot at. Within a few minutes, five, six or seven people are killed. The protocol says: seven terrorists eliminated. But no, it’s just seven people who crossed an intersection. Important: We do not kill, we eliminate. That’s how we’ve always phrased it.”


He said his brigade killed 160 to 170 people during more than 80 days in the Netzarim corridor, where “there were no fighting, no attacks by Hamas.”


“Only one man was suspected to carry a gun. No one saw the gun, it was night, and he had something with him that could have been interpreted as a weapon. He was killed about 500 meters north of the corridor, so he was not a direct danger, and we never examined his body. But not only him, but all these dead were reported as terrorists.”


The soldier is one of ten who gave testimony to Der Spiegel."


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#Gaza #GazaGenocide #ICC4Israel
 
paigntonhibby said:
To quote Golda Meyer,
We can forgove muslims for killing our children we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. Until.they learn to love their children more than they hate us there will never be peace.
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I think it was also her that said, give the arabs guns and we will have war, but give Israel guns and we will have peace.
 
paigntonhibby said:
Nope, israelis live in what the romans named palestine. The Arabs have been offered numerous times a two state solution , which the israelis agreed to , and turned it down
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Isreal agreed to it once, about 40 years ago, but it gave Palestinians limited self governance. So in essence they’ve never agreed to a sovereign state for them
 
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paigntonhibby said:
Nope, israelis live in what the romans named palestine. The Arabs have been offered numerous times a two state solution , which the israelis agreed to , and turned it down
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They have openly stated that they want to eliminate all Palestinians ffs.
 
hibbybilly said:
Pish, they want Palestine gone.
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Hattie said:
Isreal agreed to it once, about 40 years ago, but it gave Palestinians limited self governance. So in essence they’ve never agreed to a sovereign state for them
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Pop in here every once in a while these days to see if things have got any more grownup/factual. Appears not.

Presumably you're referring to the Oslo Accords, @Hattie. As for your claim, @hibbybilly -- well, I see you. No surprise there. In any case, anyone who's not a frothing zealot knows fine that Israel has engaged in serious negotiations over Palestinian statehood at Camp David in 2000 and through Ehud Olmert’s proposal in 2008. Ffs, even the devil himself, Benjamin Netanyahu, has publicly endorsed a conditional two-state solution in 2009. So it's at best disingenuous to claim Israel has never even contemplated a sovereign Palestinian state.

And of course, an inconvenient fact that's best glossed over is that it's principally the Palestinian leaders who have repeatedly rejected proposed peace agreements, so it’s also disingenuous to portray Israel as the sole or even primary obstacle to a two-state solution. But hey, you will anyway. Funny thing, though -- at least to me -- is that another historical fact is that most of the territory originally covered by the British Mandate for Palestine is now a state called Jordan, and it's an established Arab state with which Israel has achieved peace. No beef on that border for quite a while now, you know. Ultimately, the failure to establish a Palestinian state is nothing to do with Israel’s refusal to permit one; rather, the Palestinian leadership's rejectionism, and their flat-out refusal to accept Israel’s legitimacy are in fact the fundamental obstacles.

As I constantly remind people, and re: Golda Meir's quote above, Hamas’s founding charter explicitly rejects Israel’s right to exist, is steeped in unashamed and utterly explicit antisemitism, and envisages the destruction of the Jewish state, so to my mind it's hardly surprising that that those terrible Israelis are reluctant to negotiate with a governing party whose stated objectives are existentially incompatible with its own survival. And don't give me the supposed dilution of that language in 2017. Ultimately, what that still didn’t amount to was recognising Israel, abandoning the goal of liberating all of historic Palestine (ie nae jews please), and Hamas’s actions on 7 October only reinforced those concerns, wouldn't you say? Ultimately, if Israel lays down its arms, it risks ceasing to exist; if Palestinian leaders genuinely abandon the goal of destroying Israel, there is a possibility of peace.

But hey, free palestine, from the river to the sea, palestine will be free, etc etc. I guess it's easier to imagine (as Hibbybilly evidently does) that the Nasty Joos have a secret aim, as opposed to wrestle with, or even acknowledge the relevance of, the other side's explicit aims.
 
Dub said:
They have openly stated that they want to eliminate all Palestinians ffs.
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Aye? When? Saying Israel has openly declared an intention to eliminate all Palestinians is an colossal overstatement to say the absolute least. Aye, you can point to abhorrent statements made by individual Israeli politicians, and you can argue that Israeli military actions or policies have endangered Palestinian lives, oif course. But that is not the same as establishing that the state/government of Israel's declared objective is to eliminate the entire Palestinian people. If that's your claim, show me the specific statement/charter that establishes it. (If it helps, it would look a bit like Hamas's one.)
 
aggie said:
Pop in here every once in a while these days to see if things have got any more grownup/factual. Appears not.

Presumably you're referring to the Oslo Accords, @Hattie. As for your claim, @hibbybilly -- well, I see you. No surprise there. In any case, anyone who's not a frothing zealot knows fine that Israel has engaged in serious negotiations over Palestinian statehood at Camp David in 2000 and through Ehud Olmert’s proposal in 2008. Ffs, even the devil himself, Benjamin Netanyahu, has publicly endorsed a conditional two-state solution in 2009. So it's at best disingenuous to claim Israel has never even contemplated a sovereign Palestinian state.

And of course, an inconvenient fact that's best glossed over is that it's principally the Palestinian leaders who have repeatedly rejected proposed peace agreements, so it’s also disingenuous to portray Israel as the sole or even primary obstacle to a two-state solution. But hey, you will anyway. Funny thing, though -- at least to me -- is that another historical fact is that most of the territory originally covered by the British Mandate for Palestine is now a state called Jordan, and it's an established Arab state with which Israel has achieved peace. No beef on that border for quite a while now, you know. Ultimately, the failure to establish a Palestinian state is nothing to do with Israel’s refusal to permit one; rather, the Palestinian leadership's rejectionism, and their flat-out refusal to accept Israel’s legitimacy are in fact the fundamental obstacles.

As I constantly remind people, and re: Golda Meir's quote above, Hamas’s founding charter explicitly rejects Israel’s right to exist, is steeped in unashamed and utterly explicit antisemitism, and envisages the destruction of the Jewish state, so to my mind it's hardly surprising that that those terrible Israelis are reluctant to negotiate with a governing party whose stated objectives are existentially incompatible with its own survival. And don't give me the supposed dilution of that language in 2017. Ultimately, what that still didn’t amount to was recognising Israel, abandoning the goal of liberating all of historic Palestine (ie nae jews please), and Hamas’s actions on 7 October only reinforced those concerns, wouldn't you say? Ultimately, if Israel lays down its arms, it risks ceasing to exist; if Palestinian leaders genuinely abandon the goal of destroying Israel, there is a possibility of peace.

But hey, free palestine, from the river to the sea, palestine will be free, etc etc. I guess it's easier to imagine (as Hibbybilly evidently does) that the Nasty Joos have a secret aim, as opposed to wrestle with, or even acknowledge the relevance of, the other side's explicit aims.
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Not exactly a 2 state solution where they are both sovereign countries though was it 👀
Palestine wanted their 1967 borders recognised in their state..
obviously both had different ideas. But no chance Netenyahu was agreeing to equal state sovereignty
 
aggie said:
Pop in here every once in a while these days to see if things have got any more grownup/factual. Appears not.

Presumably you're referring to the Oslo Accords well, I see you. No surprise there. In any case, anyone who's not a frothing zealot knows fine that Israel has engaged in serious negotiations over Palestinian statehood at Camp David in 2000 and through Ehud Olmert’s proposal in 2008. Ffs, even the devil himself, Benjamin Netanyahu, has publicly endorsed a conditional two-state solution in 2009. So it's at best disingenuous to claim Israel has never even contemplated a sovereign Palestinian state.

And of course, an inconvenient fact that's best glossed over is that it's principally the Palestinian leaders who have repeatedly rejected proposed peace agreements, so it’s also disingenuous to portray Israel as the sole or even primary obstacle to a two-state solution. But hey, you will anyway. Funny thing, though -- at least to me -- is that another historical fact is that most of the territory originally covered by the British Mandate for Palestine is now a state called Jordan, and it's an established Arab state with which Israel has achieved peace. No beef on that border for quite a while now, you know. Ultimately, the failure to establish a Palestinian state is nothing to do with Israel’s refusal to permit one; rather, the Palestinian leadership's rejectionism, and their flat-out refusal to accept Israel’s legitimacy are in fact the fundamental obstacles.

As I constantly remind people, and re: Golda Meir's quote above, Hamas’s founding charter explicitly rejects Israel’s right to exist, is steeped in unashamed and utterly explicit antisemitism, and envisages the destruction of the Jewish state, so to my mind it's hardly surprising that that those terrible Israelis are reluctant to negotiate with a governing party whose stated objectives are existentially incompatible with its own survival. And don't give me the supposed dilution of that language in 2017. Ultimately, what that still didn’t amount to was recognising Israel, abandoning the goal of liberating all of historic Palestine (ie nae jews please), and Hamas’s actions on 7 October only reinforced those concerns, wouldn't you say? Ultimately, if Israel lays down its arms, it risks ceasing to exist; if Palestinian leaders genuinely abandon the goal of destroying Israel, there is a possibility of peace.

But hey, free palestine, from the river to the sea, palestine will be free, etc etc. I guess it's easier to imagine (as Hibbybilly evidently does) that the Nasty Joos have a secret aim, as opposed to wrestle with, or even acknowledge the relevance of, the other side's explicit aims.
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So is it only grown up if we agree with you Aggie?

Politicians in the Knesset have openly said they want all Palestinians either moved out or dead.

From the river to the sea straight from the war criminals mouth

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Epic childish nonsense with your use of Joos though.
 
Hattie said:
Not exactly a 2 state solution where they are both sovereign countries though was it 👀
Palestine wanted their 1967 borders recognised in their state..
obviously both had different ideas. But no chance Netenyahu was agreeing to equal state sovereignty
Click to expand...
Pre the 1967 war there was no palestinian state, gaza was controlled by egypt and tjr west bank was controlled by jordan
 
aggie said:
Pop in here every once in a while these days to see if things have got any more grownup/factual. Appears not.

Presumably you're referring to the Oslo Accords, @Hattie. As for your claim, @hibbybilly -- well, I see you. No surprise there. In any case, anyone who's not a frothing zealot knows fine that Israel has engaged in serious negotiations over Palestinian statehood at Camp David in 2000 and through Ehud Olmert’s proposal in 2008. Ffs, even the devil himself, Benjamin Netanyahu, has publicly endorsed a conditional two-state solution in 2009. So it's at best disingenuous to claim Israel has never even contemplated a sovereign Palestinian state.

And of course, an inconvenient fact that's best glossed over is that it's principally the Palestinian leaders who have repeatedly rejected proposed peace agreements, so it’s also disingenuous to portray Israel as the sole or even primary obstacle to a two-state solution. But hey, you will anyway. Funny thing, though -- at least to me -- is that another historical fact is that most of the territory originally covered by the British Mandate for Palestine is now a state called Jordan, and it's an established Arab state with which Israel has achieved peace. No beef on that border for quite a while now, you know. Ultimately, the failure to establish a Palestinian state is nothing to do with Israel’s refusal to permit one; rather, the Palestinian leadership's rejectionism, and their flat-out refusal to accept Israel’s legitimacy are in fact the fundamental obstacles.

As I constantly remind people, and re: Golda Meir's quote above, Hamas’s founding charter explicitly rejects Israel’s right to exist, is steeped in unashamed and utterly explicit antisemitism, and envisages the destruction of the Jewish state, so to my mind it's hardly surprising that that those terrible Israelis are reluctant to negotiate with a governing party whose stated objectives are existentially incompatible with its own survival. And don't give me the supposed dilution of that language in 2017. Ultimately, what that still didn’t amount to was recognising Israel, abandoning the goal of liberating all of historic Palestine (ie nae jews please), and Hamas’s actions on 7 October only reinforced those concerns, wouldn't you say? Ultimately, if Israel lays down its arms, it risks ceasing to exist; if Palestinian leaders genuinely abandon the goal of destroying Israel, there is a possibility of peace.

But hey, free palestine, from the river to the sea, palestine will be free, etc etc. I guess it's easier to imagine (as Hibbybilly evidently does) that the Nasty Joos have a secret aim, as opposed to wrestle with, or even acknowledge the relevance of, the other side's explicit aims.
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Excellent post. I wish I could express my thoughts as well as you do. However it would take hours for me to type anything longer than about two lines.
 
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