Israel

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Smurf said:
Are Palestinians in jail (many for acts of murder and brutality) now just the same as totally innocent hostages brutally captured in October 2023? It isn't comparing apples with apples.

Why the fuck is it whenever you condemn any violence perpetrated against Israeli's all you ever get is "...but what about what Israel is doing....".

I find it utterly embarrassing that so many in the UK find that always condemning Israel and seeking to understand Palestinian acts of terror is the way to confirm some progressive left wing position. It's at times pretty embarrassing (not you personally I may add @Dub

There's horrendous crimes being committed on both sides. The Israeli response to October 2023 is horrendous and disproportionate. However, if any of my loved ones were being held against their will my response too would be horrendous and disproportionate. Snatching innocent hostages and retaining them for this length of time is an act of barbarism. Comparing it to those in Israeli jails absurd.
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Yes, there are Palestinians who have been locked up by Israel, some of them children and Israel doesn't bother with niceties like taking them to trial, possibly because many of them are not guilty of anything more than breathing.

There are crimes perpetrated on each side but there's you getting on your high horse and being embarrassed when people call out Israel but not giving much of a fuck when it's the other way round. Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed at folk even trying to defend the atrocities Israel has carried out over the years. Some folk seem to think this all began on October 7th, but it didn't, it started long before Hamas even was a thing. Hope that doesn't embarrass you too much.
 
Dub said:
Yes, there are Palestinians who have been locked up by Israel, some of them children and Israel doesn't bother with niceties like taking them to trial, possibly because many of them are not guilty of anything more than breathing.

There are crimes perpetrated on each side but there's you getting on your high horse and being embarrassed when people call out Israel but not giving much of a fuck when it's the other way round. Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed at folk even trying to defend the atrocities Israel has carried out over the years. Some folk seem to think this all began on October 7th, but it didn't, it started long before Hamas even was a thing. Hope that doesn't embarrass you too much.
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Well said.
 
Dub said:
Yes, there are Palestinians who have been locked up by Israel, some of them children and Israel doesn't bother with niceties like taking them to trial, possibly because many of them are not guilty of anything more than breathing.

There are crimes perpetrated on each side but there's you getting on your high horse and being embarrassed when people call out Israel but not giving much of a fuck when it's the other way round. Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed at folk even trying to defend the atrocities Israel has carried out over the years. Some folk seem to think this all began on October 7th, but it didn't, it started long before Hamas even was a thing. Hope that doesn't embarrass you too much.
Click to expand...

Who thinks this began October 7th 2023? Who is defending the atrocities carried out by Israel?

I'm on no high horse and absolutely give a fuck when any crimes are perpetrated by Israel. I have no 'side' in any of this. The suffering on both sides is horrendous. The leadership on both sides is horrendous.
 
Hamas backs down and will release hostages this weekend.

I doubt that would have happened under Biden following the threats of Trump....
 
Dub said:
Yes, there are Palestinians who have been locked up by Israel, some of them children and Israel doesn't bother with niceties like taking them to trial, possibly because many of them are not guilty of anything more than breathing.

There are crimes perpetrated on each side but there's you getting on your high horse and being embarrassed when people call out Israel but not giving much of a fuck when it's the other way round. Quite frankly, I'm embarrassed at folk even trying to defend the atrocities Israel has carried out over the years. Some folk seem to think this all began on October 7th, but it didn't, it started long before Hamas even was a thing. Hope that doesn't embarrass you too much.
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Israel have probably been pinching land since it was formed, no wonder the Palestinians are a tad aggrieved 🤔
I’ve no doubt someone will correct me for saying that though 🤷‍♂️
 
egb_hibs said:
Buying it, mostly. But there are the settlers. They’re at it.
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They started off buying it then realised that starting a skirmish with Palestinians would be enough to make them flee whereupon the Israelis just stole the land and refused to give it back. I mentioned a long time ago that you should seek out a documentary called Blue Box [possibly still on [iplayer] which was made by a young Jewish girl who was embarrassed by her country's actions the further she went in to it.
 
Dub said:
They started off buying it then realised that starting a skirmish with Palestinians would be enough to make them flee whereupon the Israelis just stole the land and refused to give it back. I mentioned a long time ago that you should seek out a documentary called Blue Box [possibly still on [iplayer] which was made by a young Jewish girl who was embarrassed by her country's actions the further she went in to it.
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You write as if this was a one way process rather than three way fighting between Brits, Israelis and Palestinians, then back and forth between the latter two.

The bottom line is if the Arabs had accepted the partition of Ottoman lands into states for different peoples, ie return some of the land seized by Islamic colonialism, this would all have been over long before any of us bar Shrink were born.

There was no such thing as Jordan, Palestine, or the modern versions of Israel and Syria. If the people of Ottoman Syria (which included all of these) and the wider Arab world not refused to accept an unpromising patch of land being allocated to the Jews - had they contented themselves with the rest of Ottoman Syria - everything that came since might have been avoided.

But as the Arabs and Turks had been busy cleansing the wider region of non Muslims since the Ottoman fall, and continue to do so until today, I guess it was never likely.
 
egb_hibs said:
You write as if this was a one way process rather than three way fighting between Brits, Israelis and Palestinians, then back and forth between the latter two.

The bottom line is if the Arabs had accepted the partition of Ottoman lands into states for different peoples, ie return some of the land seized by Islamic colonialism, this would all have been over long before any of us bar Shrink were born.

There was no such thing as Jordan, Palestine, or the modern versions of Israel and Syria. If the people of Ottoman Syria (which included all of these) and the wider Arab world not refused to accept an unpromising patch of land being allocated to the Jews - had they contented themselves with the rest of Ottoman Syria - everything that came since might have been avoided.

But as the Arabs and Turks had been busy cleansing the wider region of non Muslims since the Ottoman fall, and continue to do so until today, I guess it was never likely.
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Oi leave the pterodactyl alone you 😉
 
egb_hibs said:
You write as if this was a one way process rather than three way fighting between Brits, Israelis and Palestinians, then back and forth between the latter two.

The bottom line is if the Arabs had accepted the partition of Ottoman lands into states for different peoples, ie return some of the land seized by Islamic colonialism, this would all have been over long before any of us bar Shrink were born.

There was no such thing as Jordan, Palestine, or the modern versions of Israel and Syria. If the people of Ottoman Syria (which included all of these) and the wider Arab world not refused to accept an unpromising patch of land being allocated to the Jews - had they contented themselves with the rest of Ottoman Syria - everything that came since might have been avoided.

But as the Arabs and Turks had been busy cleansing the wider region of non Muslims since the Ottoman fall, and continue to do so until today, I guess it was never likely.
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Typical really of you to muddy the waters with superfluous information. Deal with the comment I made about Israel initially buying land and then realising that aggression got them the land for nothing. Address the Blue Box documentary that I raised and forget the other stuff you are using as smoke ansd mirrors.
 
Dub said:
Typical really of you to muddy the waters with superfluous information. Deal with the comment I made about Israel initially buying land and then realising that aggression got them the land for nothing. Address the Blue Box documentary that I raised and forget the other stuff you are using as smoke ansd mirrors.
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Your post suggested the big bad Jews realised they could just take land by violence. It’s a bit more complicated than that, however undesirable that may be. ‘Superfluous information’ may get in the way of tub thumping rhetoric, but I make no apologies for that.

I’m not watching a movie I have no interest in to do a review on it. Hard as it may be to believe, Israel / Palestine doesn’t really interest me as much as it seems to others. The prejudice it licenses in the country I live in, does.
 
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Palestinian protest in London, woman on mic loudly and clearly shouting out "from the river to the sea" during live news report. I'm sure the police will be waiting to cuff her for hate crimes. Two tier Keir.
 
MSG_07 said:
Palestinian protest in London, woman on mic loudly and clearly shouting out "from the river to the sea" during live news report. I'm sure the police will be waiting to cuff her for hate crimes. Two tier Keir.
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Seen a protest at the back of the art gallery building in Princes Street earlier.
 
Smurf said:
Hamas backs down and will release hostages this weekend.

I doubt that would have happened under Biden following the threats of Trump....
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What more threat can you put on a place that has been largely destroyed,with many thousands killed.?
Donald,who told us there were no wars when he was last in the WH !!?
He wants them now,it appears,with his sabre rattling !
This "man of peace" who is threatening Countries the world over,who wont bend to his will, with invasion.
His pals, BB and Putin should be under arrest and in the Hague.
I credit Trump with nothing... but world chaos
 
I haven’t seen it posted anywhere or heard anything about it on the tv , but I have thought it a bit weird that when the two sides are releasing hostages why are the numbers so skewed, Hamas release 3 ,Israel release 2-3 hundred . Were the Israelis locking up anybody and everybody?
 
Emerald Harp said:
What more threat can you put on a place that has been largely destroyed,with many thousands killed.?
Donald,who told us there were no wars when he was last in the WH !!?
He wants them now,it appears,with his sabre rattling !
This "man of peace" who is threatening Countries the world over,who wont bend to his will, with invasion.
His pals, BB and Putin should be under arrest and in the Hague.
I credit Trump with nothing... but world chaos
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The only way folk like Putin and Hamas won’t attack, and indeed Netanyahu, is if they’re scared. Theres no guarantee it will work, but Trump’s chaos has made progress on Israel / Palestine so far.
 
egb_hibs said:
The only way folk like Putin and Hamas won’t attack, and indeed Netanyahu, is if they’re scared. Theres no guarantee it will work, but Trump’s chaos has made progress on Israel / Palestine so far.
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Folk all over the world (including Putin & Xi) wake up wondering WTF Trump has said or done when they were asleep.... Under Biden they knew he was sleeping when they were awake let alone when then were sleeping.
 
Trump last time inherited a healthy economy from Obama.
Joe inherited an economic mess (even for bar covid)
And accomplished more in a year than trump did in four .
Of course ,Trump, the sectarian bigot, racist,adulterer,adjudicated rapist ,pathological liar,tax evader and fraudster, who would have had people inject bleach to cure the covid virus he said would be gone in a month or so anyway, is now the Felon President 🤷‍♂️
Sleeping Joe !!?
We might all be sleeping permanently soon with this lunatic in charge and finger on those buttons.
 
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Emerald Harp said:
Trump last time inherited a healthy economy from Obama.
Joe inherited an economic mess (even for bar covid)
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What do you mean by a mess? During the previous Trump term the working classes were better off than in living memory, minorities most of all. I think blacks saw their highest rise in earnings of all time. The steep trajectory normally enjoyed by the super rich did flatten though, to resume under Biden. Is that what you mean ?

This is one major reason for the swing in support for Trump among the less well off and minorities.
 
egb_hibs said:
What do you mean by a mess? During the previous Trump term the working classes were better off than in living memory, minorities most of all. I think blacks saw their highest rise in earnings of all time. The steep trajectory normally enjoyed by the super rich did flatten though, to resume under Biden. Is that what you mean ?

This is one major reason for the swing in support for Trump among the less well off and minorities.
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Not gonna argue with a MAGA fan ....However 😁
Of course trump did not secure a second term That riled him big time and sent him in a rage,
We then saw him trying to coerce/threaten others to cheat voting counts,so as to change the result
He still denies .The man cannot be trusted ,
Ask his wife and former colleagues from his first term !
 
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Emerald Harp said:
Not gonna argue with a MAGA fan ....However 😁
Of course trump did not secure a second term That riled him big time and sent him in a rage,
We then saw him trying to coerce/threaten others to cheat voting counts,so as to change the result
He still denies .The man cannot be trusted ,
Ask his wife and former colleagues from his first term !
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I’m not a Maga fan, and I’m in full agreement with you on his behaviour after his defeat.

I was responding specifically to your economy claim, which puzzled me.
 
egb_hibs said:
I’m not a Maga fan, and I’m in full agreement with you on his behaviour after his defeat.

I was responding specifically to your economy claim, which puzzled me.
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The man is clearly a suitable case for treatment
Yet Joe got all that stuff thrown at him
I think both were poor candidates and far too old and frail
Though liked Joe, Kamala just didnt quite do enough in the time she had
Says something about the main parties doesnt it?

The debt on leaving office even allowing for federal spending on covid relief i was thinking
Yes the man got the popular vote with low paid minorities and white working class ,
The dems shoulder blame for a poor campaign and not responding to a lot of minority/ working class concerns
Although many of those latinos/minorities/immigrants are rueing voting for him now as the deporting continues and some of them could be next
Both Obama and Joe deported many
But Kamala never mentioned it much if at all
But this liar got back in on immigration /deportation, the price of groceries and tackling inflation.
Not on all the global chaos he is causing now
We shall see
But my concern is not so much with his domestic policies (and i have tons of US relatives)
Its his attitude/threat to outside the States that is of concern
And the power of those tech billionaires who sit along side him
Democracy it is not !

I followed the campaign on both the U S msm and left leaning podcasts and folk like Bernie Sanders
I was shocked he won
But what do i know of American grass roots attitudes🤷‍♂️
Goodnight
Boxing coming up soon🥊
GGTTH
 
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egb_hibs said:
What do you mean by a mess? During the previous Trump term the working classes were better off than in living memory, minorities most of all. I think blacks saw their highest rise in earnings of all time. The steep trajectory normally enjoyed by the super rich did flatten though, to resume under Biden. Is that what you mean ?

This is one major reason for the swing in support for Trump among the less well off and minorities.
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This should be on the Trump thread but such is the seismic world developments in a relative short period of time and intertwining of recent events Starmers reaction for instance to events could very well end up on Labour, here or Ukraine threads as for instance so it's probably inevitable.

With that in mind what you state above has obviously an element of truth though it's not clear to me how much a determinant that was as our US Bouncers have differences of opinion on that. Quite rightly so. For a start 'better off' means a lot more than how much groceries you can buy but housing, medical care, crime etc,etc. That in itself does not tie in completely with the present rise in popularity of Reform, the AfD and other populist/ far right entities in Europe and beyond. The common hook is immigration of course and in some cases pretty much the main/only one. There seems to me a resignation that the whole system, establishment elite has demonstrated to folk that it's absolutely rotten to the core. Holding of noses, lesser evil, abstentionism has never been so prevalent in my opinion.

This should be on the Trump thread but such is the seismic world developments in a relative short period of time and intertwining of recent events Starmers reaction for instance to events could very well end up on Labour, here or Ukraine threads as for instance so it's probably inevitable.

With that in mind what you state above has obviously an element of truth though it's not clear to me how much a determinant that was as our US Bouncers have differences of opinion on that. Quite rightly so. For a start 'better off' means a lot more than how much groceries you can buy but housing, medical care, crime etc,etc. That in itself does not tie in completely with the present rise in popularity of Reform, the AfD and other populist/ far right entities in Europe and beyond. The common hook is immigration of course and in some cases pretty much the main/only one. There seems to me a resignation that the whole system, establishment elite has demonstrated to folk that it's absolutely rotten to the core. Holding of noses, lesser evil and abstention have never been greater in my opinion.

The big problem for Trump this time round is that he has made sweeping promises to bring back American “greatness,” and there are massive expectations for a serious shake-up of the hated status quo.
What has got Progressives, Liberals and Lefts into a state of apoplexy is that he has started to drain the swamp as he crudely puts it from day one.

However, the world's changed significantly since he first entered the White House in 2017. The botched pandemic illiterate crap, the debacle of NATO’s proxy war in Ukraine which he has admitted in so many words was lost many months ago and which could have been ceased for agreed negotiations which were scuppered by the odious Boris Johnson in his visit to Kiev at behest of the now comatose Joe Biden, leading to goodness know how many young lifes on both sides till now and the genocidal slaughter in Gaza, have transformed world relations and upended any illusions millions may have had in the system. World capitalism is in serious trouble, which we both agree on that, and American capitalism is at the heart of the rot. Trump’s unenviable task is to manage the systemic crisis of capitalism, and in particular, US Imperialism’s accelerating decline relative to other rising powers.

A brilliant cartoon was brought to my attention published in the Financial Times with the laeders of the leaders of the three largest Imperialist powers Trump, Xi and Putin standing smiling whilst carving up the world (spheres of influence). A wee parable of the Yalta agreement came to my head.

Time will tell but I think whoever the cartoonist is has got it pretty spot on.


BIG G
 
Good post @GORDONSMITH7

US house prices also seem to have plateaued during Trump’s first term before rocketing under Biden. Crime went through the roof when woke mania overtook democratic run cities, with minorities suffering most of course. So you are absolutely spot on there is more than rising wages in the mix, and more specifically, also as influences on minority voters. The latter are also those who suffer most from uncontrolled and especially illegal migration.

The democrats have simply blown it epically, with blue collar workers of all hues. Their replacement of labor concerns and votes with a grievance based coalition of minorities cultivated by identity politics, is now also the wind. To cap it all they’ve become midwives to a grotesque buffoon’s presidency.

These neoliberal goons who kneecapped Bernie Sanders, became the party of Wall Street, punked labor six ways to Sunday and ravaged race relations for cynical gain, are well rid. Unfortunately they’ve so deranged the country we now have this lurid clownshow instead.

What the US needs, as the UK needs, as France, Germany and all the rest need, is either the centre right or left to become the party of labour, community and civilisation in an era of existential crisis. They seem hellbent on not doing it and thus it is only a matter of time before the populist tide sweeps away one edifice after another; like all revolutions it won’t be pretty, and nor will be the revolutionaries.
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
This should be on the Trump thread but such is the seismic world developments in a relative short period of time and intertwining of recent events Starmers reaction for instance to events could very well end up on Labour, here or Ukraine threads as for instance so it's probably inevitable.

With that in mind what you state above has obviously an element of truth though it's not clear to me how much a determinant that was as our US Bouncers have differences of opinion on that. Quite rightly so. For a start 'better off' means a lot more than how much groceries you can buy but housing, medical care, crime etc,etc. That in itself does not tie in completely with the present rise in popularity of Reform, the AfD and other populist/ far right entities in Europe and beyond. The common hook is immigration of course and in some cases pretty much the main/only one. There seems to me a resignation that the whole system, establishment elite has demonstrated to folk that it's absolutely rotten to the core. Holding of noses, lesser evil, abstentionism has never been so prevalent in my opinion.

This should be on the Trump thread but such is the seismic world developments in a relative short period of time and intertwining of recent events Starmers reaction for instance to events could very well end up on Labour, here or Ukraine threads as for instance so it's probably inevitable.

With that in mind what you state above has obviously an element of truth though it's not clear to me how much a determinant that was as our US Bouncers have differences of opinion on that. Quite rightly so. For a start 'better off' means a lot more than how much groceries you can buy but housing, medical care, crime etc,etc. That in itself does not tie in completely with the present rise in popularity of Reform, the AfD and other populist/ far right entities in Europe and beyond. The common hook is immigration of course and in some cases pretty much the main/only one. There seems to me a resignation that the whole system, establishment elite has demonstrated to folk that it's absolutely rotten to the core. Holding of noses, lesser evil and abstention have never been greater in my opinion.

The big problem for Trump this time round is that he has made sweeping promises to bring back American “greatness,” and there are massive expectations for a serious shake-up of the hated status quo.
What has got Progressives, Liberals and Lefts into a state of apoplexy is that he has started to drain the swamp as he crudely puts it from day one.

However, the world's changed significantly since he first entered the White House in 2017. The botched pandemic illiterate crap, the debacle of NATO’s proxy war in Ukraine which he has admitted in so many words was lost many months ago and which could have been ceased for agreed negotiations which were scuppered by the odious Boris Johnson in his visit to Kiev at behest of the now comatose Joe Biden, leading to goodness know how many young lifes on both sides till now and the genocidal slaughter in Gaza, have transformed world relations and upended any illusions millions may have had in the system. World capitalism is in serious trouble, which we both agree on that, and American capitalism is at the heart of the rot. Trump’s unenviable task is to manage the systemic crisis of capitalism, and in particular, US Imperialism’s accelerating decline relative to other rising powers.

A brilliant cartoon was brought to my attention published in the Financial Times with the laeders of the leaders of the three largest Imperialist powers Trump, Xi and Putin standing smiling whilst carving up the world (spheres of influence). A wee parable of the Yalta agreement came to my head.

Time will tell but I think whoever the cartoonist is has got it pretty spot on.


BIG G
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PS I just amended the above to add....

What has got Progressives, Liberals and Lefts into a state of apoplexy is that he has started to drain the swamp as he crudely puts it from day one....

after reading @Emerald Harp post as Saunders is as much to blame for Trumps victory after capitulation to the Democratic Party's maneuvering.
One of the real ironies is that nobody in my party the RCP is going to weep at Trump via Musk booting USAID into touch. Their reasons won't be altruistic. Revenge possibly. A notorious conduit for anti democratic CIA activity since JFK's time with tentacles all over the globe and armies of well paid CEOs and beaurocrats
Progressives,Liberals and Lefts including Sanders raised there hand in horror with not a single one telling the real story behind USAID.
I suspect the MSM everywhere did likewise. I heard nowt.

Thankfully the RCPs 'Commie rag' took the time to.

communist.red

USAID: imperialist Trojan Horse goes in the woodchipper | The Communist

Donald Trump and Elon Musk's new chainsaw-wielding Department of Government Efficiency has made quick work of slashing state spending. But cuts to USAID, a key part of US imperialism's 'soft power' strategy, have provoked splits within the ruling class.
communist.red communist.red


BIG G
 
MSG_07 said:
Palestinian protest in London, woman on mic loudly and clearly shouting out "from the river to the sea" during live news report. I'm sure the police will be waiting to cuff her for hate crimes. Two tier Keir.
Click to expand...
From the river to the sea Palestine will be free.Have me arrested.
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
PS I just amended the above to add....

What has got Progressives, Liberals and Lefts into a state of apoplexy is that he has started to drain the swamp as he crudely puts it from day one....

after reading @Emerald Harp post as Saunders is as much to blame for Trumps victory after capitulation to the Democratic Party's maneuvering.
One of the real ironies is that nobody in my party the RCP is going to weep at Trump via Musk booting USAID into touch. Their reasons won't be altruistic. Revenge possibly. A notorious conduit for anti democratic CIA activity since JFK's time with tentacles all over the globe and armies of well paid CEOs and beaurocrats
Progressives,Liberals and Lefts including Sanders raised there hand in horror with not a single one telling the real story behind USAID.
I suspect the MSM everywhere did likewise. I heard nowt.

Thankfully the RCPs 'Commie rag' took the time to.

communist.red

USAID: imperialist Trojan Horse goes in the woodchipper | The Communist

Donald Trump and Elon Musk's new chainsaw-wielding Department of Government Efficiency has made quick work of slashing state spending. But cuts to USAID, a key part of US imperialism's 'soft power' strategy, have provoked splits within the ruling class.
communist.red communist.red


BIG G
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Trump’s pitch definitely confounds traditional left and right positions which as I think we would both agree have substantially dissolved anyway.

His antipathy to the military industrial complex, his war on the cia and the feds, his antipathy to America’s world cop / imperialist (as the left would have it) pretensions, his insistence on colour blind approaches and binning racialism, RFK’s hostility to pharma and gouging of the ill, plus his whole food and yoga shtick….all this and more was found on the campus left until yesterday, never mind his play for the labor vote.

Of course there’s also an agenda to shrink the state which is from the right, and commitment to fossil fuels which in labor terms would be left wing, but on campus would be right…

He doesn’t fit in a bucket. It’s not even fascist or nationalist socialist to reference another left / right synthesis (even just focussing on economics and leaving the hysterical use of those terms aside), because they don’t shrink the state; the state is all. They aren’t anti imperialist either.

It’s a new thing really, though I think the closet historical position in US politics is pre 1968 democrat party traditions. The Maganuts incidentally often hold up JFK, a democrat, as the last true president governing for the whole country rather than interest groups. He was traditionally reviled by the American right. We ain’t in Kansas any more, and this thing whatever it is, does not go easily into a pigeon hole.

On USAID, I don’t confess any in depth knowledge of that outfit but will read your article. Instinctively that seemed like ‘wrecker’ stuff to me - how can you go after an AID organisation and as first priority ffs?

However I actually think Musk was quite convincing on the rackets and corruption he claims infest it. It might be bullshit, but it’s sadly in the nature of such things as the UN ably demonstrates. We will see. Anyway, interesting to see the Marxist left are considerably less enthused by it than the progressive left. I’m off to read it now.

Ps my impression is Bernie Sanders was basically ‘hit’ by the Clinton machine. I’m not sure he so much went along as was forced along. By what dark means I’m not entirely sure…
 
Findlayhibby said:
From the river to the sea Palestine will be free.Have me arrested.
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C'mon Findlay. We know the radical left don't work that way. Ethnic minorities have a free pass to say and do what they want in the UK. The same with people supporting them.
 
The protest this week in London was in responce to 80 people being arrested on a march to the BBC two weeks ago.
 
@GORDONSMITH7 I’ve read it now. Interesting. You won’t be surprised to learn I’m not as opposed as they are to USAID having supported democracy campaigners during the Cold War - though I wouldn’t try to argue that was always purely about peace, love and understanding.

However I do think the US and the west has overreached in subsequent years by trying to remould other peoples to be like Ivy League liberals. Never gonna work and genuinely culturally imperialistic despite propagating the world view of those who complain loudest of cultural imperialism….

Given virtually the whole of American media will be scrutinising him (less than 4% of American journalists are republicans iirc, an absolute tell it has become a democracy in name only - and it’s pretty similar in the unis that shape the ruling class) I am looking forward to see if Musk can back up some of his early claims.

He says they have evidence of bureaucrats in USAID on 100k salaries accruing a net worth of tens of millions of dollars. The establishment machine is - he claims - also grinding into gear to thwart them following the money, with he alleges leads to all manner of partisan organisations funded by the democrats from taxpayer money. I’ve notice traditional right wing sites throwing up chaff on this exercise as well btw. Trump in his bs way suggest there is maybe a trillion dollars of grift in the system, Musk is less hyperbolic but is hinting at tens of billions or more, perhaps hundreds of billions, if I’ve deciphered his waffle right. Which I can quite believe. And also quite not believe.

It’s possible to believe there’s a swamp to be drained, and also that the guys doing it are zoomers. It’s sounds like that’s also basically the RCP position starting from a different place. That’s where I am cautiously tending to at the moment, though I don’t really believe any body which makes it quite difficult to form a view.
 
Ok we'll ignore all the reports about the Met being rife with racism,sexism and homophobia and we'll make up some nonsence about two tier policing which comes out of the mouths of supporters of Yaxley Lennon.
 
Findlayhibby said:
Ok we'll ignore all the reports about the Met being rife with racism,sexism and homophobia and we'll make up some nonsence about two tier policing which comes out of the mouths of supporters of Yaxley Lennon.
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Nobody is taking anything from Yaxley Lennon, but from our own lyin’ eyes - police and home office accounts an all.

As for those reports on the met. It’s not the 1990s. Todays rozzers down south are shaped in a stonewall saturated police college, and keep themselves busy pulling down posters of kidnapped Jewish kids so as not to trigger public school boys and jihadis, or policing social media to ensure no anti establishment thought slips through. Police Scotland have kicked stonewall out btw

The times move Findlay. You’re no longer a threat to the system I’m afraid, indeed you’re quite useful to it.
 
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