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Roger the Cabin Boy said:
Thanks Hammi, I clearly got the wrong impression with the references to huns, geordies and the irish rebel music. I'm an atheist for what its worth.
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Huns is a reference to rangers fans specifically, and some times anti catholic bigots. It’s not about Protestants - the difference is like having a dig at the KKK vs insulting people for being white.

Geordies I’m lost on - that’s a term for people from Newcastle, along with scousers for people from Liverpool and so on.

While the Hibs support is thoroughly diverse, it retains the support of the city’s Irish descended population. Some of them like Irish rebel music, others like me am not fussed; 99.9% don’t want it associated with football.
 
egb_hibs said:
What difficult journey did Christian Scots take on women and minority rights ?! Minority rights come straight from Christianity and woman’s rights were no different for Christians than anyone else.

In any case, what you are talking about is possible for a minority community. I mean it’s looking less likely than it once did, as - no doubt assisted by the torrent of anti westernism in the west - second and third generation people are less keen on our failed model than their forebears.

But I’m not sure our antique ways could prevail in a plurality. There doesn’t seem to be any precedent for it. In which case, I hope you are as embracing of change as you imply.
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I think it's the majority view that we have a failing/failed model, the key is to influence what comes next. That's the best we can do for future generations. Mostly my fault I think but the tangent this thread has gone down has brought the discussion to the one were also having in the Labour win thread. So back to Israel Palestine 🤷
 
barney said:
maybe you should stop reading that bollocks and just look at innocent people being murdered and see if u think that is OK.
I have a terrible feeling that perhaps you do.
no more from me on this.
God bless all those that have been murdered in this atrocity.
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Lets ignore the thousands who have been killed and maimed by the IDF and Mossad since 1848,the apartheid state akin to South Africa and the way the far right treat Black Jews who have seeked right of return from places like Ethiopia who are treated like shit by the white zionists.Not to mention the way the LGBTQ+ community are treated in Israel-please don't give me Eurovision winners I'm talking about the ordinary LGBTQ community.

Smurf said:
Looks like the music festival was specifically targeted by these terrorists. Those at the festival were in the main young people just doing what young people do in enjoying themselves. Absolutely innocent. And caught up in an act of barbaric evil. And such was the coordination of their specific terrorist attack they had planned measures in place to attack, murder and kidnap those poor innocent souls fleeing in panic.

For the legitimate Palestinian cause this is an absolute disaster.

I dare anyone to give any legitimate justification for those at say Glastonbury being brutally attacked, murdered and kidnapped in this way.
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All young Israelis serve time in the IDF and will be harrasing shooting and maiming the Palestinian populace in due time.

egb_hibs said:
Huns is a reference to rangers fans specifically, and some times anti catholic bigots. It’s not about Protestants - the difference is like having a dig at the KKK vs insulting people for being white.

Geordies I’m lost on - that’s a term for people from Newcastle, along with scousers for people from Liverpool and so on.

While the Hibs support is thoroughly diverse, it retains the support of the city’s Irish descended population. Some of them like Irish rebel music, others like me am not fussed; 99.9% don’t want it associated with football.
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You just plucked a percentage out of the air without actually knowing it to be fact.
 
moathibby said:
Lets ignore the thousands who have been killed and maimed by the IDF and Mossad since 1848,the apartheid state akin to South Africa and the way the far right treat Black Jews who have seeked right of return from places like Ethiopia who are treated like shit by the white zionists.Not to mention the way the LGBTQ+ community are treated in Israel-please don't give me Eurovision winners I'm talking about the ordinary LGBTQ community.
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So that all makes killing all ok then? Good to know where the left of the Labour set think. So you don't want any actual peace as you would lose such a huge part of your political identity you would be all empty?

Excusing a couple of massacres as long as it is the right people getting gunned down.

Both sides need to take a step back and talk and try to reach a permanent settlement as the Palistinians are not going away and neither is the Israeli state unless Iran decides to nuke them. Is this what you would like to see out there in Marxist world?
 
moathibby said:
Lets ignore the thousands who have been killed and maimed by the IDF and Mossad since 1848,the apartheid state akin to South Africa and the way the far right treat Black Jews who have seeked right of return from places like Ethiopia who are treated like shit by the white zionists.Not to mention the way the LGBTQ+ community are treated in Israel-please don't give me Eurovision winners I'm talking about the ordinary LGBTQ community.
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LGBT people are treated better - on a different level better - in Israel, than anywhere else in the region.

All societies have a hard right / left, that’s a sad fact of life.
 
moathibby said:
You just plucked a percentage out of the air without actually knowing it to be fact.
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That’s right Moaty. However, I think Roger will take it in the way such things are generally meant - the vast majority,
 
I'd like to see a secular Palestine just like you get a secular Scotland or any other country you care to mention ;and that 's not going to happen until the illegal occupiers accept this is the only outcome which will work.I reject two state solutions,one state ,one peoples ;a multicultural multi ethnic,multi religious society in which all peoples in that country are treated equally and with respect.Is that too much to ask? and if I get another 'I'd like to buy the world a coke' jibe from Eee Gee he can go take a running jump.
 
Roger the Cabin Boy said:
S

So, you see a magazine with a headline that you know is untrue-you waste you time and read it in the hope that there may be some surprising truth there after all?
Palestinians have been complaining about the challenges to their daily lives for a long time-nothing new there. Unfortunately the palestinians have a habit of bombing israelis when their movements are not restricted. I suspect that the oil rich arab brotherhood could well afford to find some other barren place for them but prefer to maintain the conflict as Israel is a blight on their otherwise muslim map.
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My point still stands. It was a good video that highlights the Palestinian perspective on what’s happening. The introduction may of made a comment that you disagreed with but that does not make the whole thing pointless.
The rest of your thoughts I shall not engage with as I think you have used the space to veer far from the semantics of introductions negating the body of information.
 
moathibby said:
I'd like to see a secular Palestine just like you get a secular Scotland or any other country you care to mention ;and that 's not going to happen until the illegal occupiers accept this is the only outcome which will work.I reject two state solutions,one state ,one peoples ;a multicultural multi ethnic,multi religious society in which all peoples in that country are treated equally and with respect.Is that too much to ask? and if I get another 'I'd like to buy the world a coke' jibe from Eee Gee he can go take a running jump.
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That's somewhere beyond coke buying that is a flat out rejection of reality.

It has no merit and it doesn't make you a benevolent man of peace and understanding
 
moathibby said:
I'd like to see a secular Palestine just like you get a secular Scotland or any other country you care to mention ;and that 's not going to happen until the illegal occupiers accept this is the only outcome which will work.I reject two state solutions,one state ,one peoples ;a multicultural multi ethnic,multi religious society in which all peoples in that country are treated equally and with respect.Is that too much to ask? and if I get another 'I'd like to buy the world a coke' jibe from Eee Gee he can go take a running jump.
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That'd be great, feels a long way off being feasible though. Not sure there's ever been a good outcome from partition so I get your point in theory, but it's hard to see how Palestine and Israel can come together in a new state?
 
moathibby said:
I'd like to see a secular Palestine just like you get a secular Scotland or any other country you care to mention ;and that 's not going to happen until the illegal occupiers accept this is the only outcome which will work.I reject two state solutions,one state ,one peoples ;a multicultural multi ethnic,multi religious society in which all peoples in that country are treated equally and with respect.Is that too much to ask? and if I get another 'I'd like to buy the world a coke' jibe from Eee Gee he can go take a running jump.
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Of course it's not too much to ask but sadly it's far too much to expect. Remember my early post? Humans... Fucking wankers! This trumps everything.
 
gun ainm said:
That'd be great, feels a long way off being feasible though. Not sure there's ever been a good outcome from partition so I get your point in theory, but it's hard to see how Palestine and Israel can come together in a new state?
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Well not least given Hamas stated intent to wipe out the Jews.
 
Roger the Cabin Boy said:
Thanks Hammi, I clearly got the wrong impression with the references to huns, geordies and the irish rebel music. I'm an atheist for what its worth.
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So you think reference from a handful of people is evidence of widespread hatred and bigotry in the edinburgh derby? Even then I'm no sure the references are that strong.


Rangers being referred to as Huns has nothing to do with any of the above. Its because they're a bunch of rampaging arseholes, remniscent of Atila and Co. Sure someone will be able to find the source of the name in the English papers.


**caught up on the rest, can ignore this 😅
 
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egb_hibs said:
Well not least given Hamas stated intent to wipe out the Jews.
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No it's not, it did until recently call for the destruction if the state 8f Israel but that's different. have you read the Hamas Charter?

In May 2017, Hamas unveiled its new charter, in an attempt to moderate its image. The charter no longer calls for Israel's destruction, but still calls for liberation of Palestine and to 'confront the Zionist project'. It also confirms acceptance of the 1967 borders as the basis for establishing a Palestinian state as well as not being an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood
 
I think that previous manoeuvres clearly haven’t brought a lasting peace, and these latest events are the doors being blown off, on the back of the pressure that’s built up due to the tension that’s just had a lid slung on it and hoped it would go away.

Israel “is going to change the Middle East”, sounds like an all out war on everyone in its path.

This of course won’t resolve the issues, but the type of war they seem to be suggesting might be the precursor to a lasting peace once everyone is worn out, and dead, after a decade.
 
From what I've seen on the telly I can see the Gaza Strip being razed to the ground. I doubt there'll be 2 bricks on top of each other.
 
Jack said:
From what I've seen on the telly I can see the Gaza Strip being razed to the ground. I doubt there'll be 2 bricks on top of each other.
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Horrific. I expect Hamas are playing the time honoured game of trying to create a cycle of radicalism through escalating slaughter, especially of their own, with the hope it drags their people as whole - and in this case other Islamic actors - into it. With the current Israeli administration they may judge they have as willing an opposition as they are likely to get.

This is dreadful but it could become off the scale bad.
 
Jack said:
From what I've seen on the telly I can see the Gaza Strip being razed to the ground. I doubt there'll be 2 bricks on top of each other.
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I think you may be right Jack. Netanwhatshisname telling Palestinians tae get oot.
 
Israel advising people to leave but there's no way to, complete siege conditions, water and other supplies turned off, bombs raining down, hell on earth. Bibi promising this is just the start.

Link to here, Humza Yousef's in-laws from Dundee trapped in Gaza currently in middle of visit to sick relative
 
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gun ainm said:
Israel advising people to leave but there's no way to, complete siege conditions, water and other supplies turned off, bombs raining down, hell on earth. Bibi promising this is just the start.

Link to here, Humza Yousef's in-laws from Dundee trapped in Gaza currently in middle of visit to sick relative
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Exactly what Hamas wanted I fear. Hellish. Let’s see what the Iranians et al do now.
 
100,000 Israeli troops about to go in.

No chance Iran does nothing.

Better fasten our seat belts. Ukraine will soon be forgotten....
 
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Smurf said:
100,000 Israeli troops about to go in.

No chance Iran does nothing.

Better fasten our seat belts. Ukraine will soon be forgotten....
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Dinnae ken if its authentic but I seen a video of Putin saying if the Yanks help Israel he'll be helping Palestine. This could turn into a much bigger shit show.
 
This whole "change the middle east" is worrying.

They're gonna wipe them out. Its horrible 😞
 
hibbybilly said:
Dinnae ken if its authentic but I seen a video of Putin saying if the Yanks help Israel he'll be helping Palestine. This could turn into a much bigger shit show.
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Cant see what he has left to fight with, Russia is teetering on brink of bankruptcy. Unless he goes all in with nuclear. But does make me wonder if this is the third world war happening as so many conflicts all over and bound to be more whilst USA and Russia are distracted. NATO will have to up their game dramatically with producing ammunition
 
1875 said:
I have stayed out of this, but it looks like a Celgers/ Rantic argument here, folk have taken their sides. Both sides are killing innocents for fuck sake.
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Spot on. It’s a miserable fckn shit show and it’s only going to get worse.
 
JFP said:
The world is fucked when there a c.nts around the world supporting this
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I wouldn't support it, but can't support what they done to kick off this specific retaliation either.

Horrible stuff dude.
 
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gun ainm said:
Israel advising people to leave but there's no way to, complete siege conditions, water and other supplies turned off, bombs raining down, hell on earth. Bibi promising this is just the start.

Link to here, Humza Yousef's in-laws from Dundee trapped in Gaza currently in middle of visit to sick relative
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One thing the UN, US or whatever could do, is provide rescue ships to take people out. The Israelis wouldn’t have a leg to stand on complaining about that - and if they do fuck em - and it doesn’t have to become involved in any more than humanitarian concerns. If Biden had any balls he would do this.

That said, you’d no doubt get Hamas wing nuts infiltrating the refugees so it probably wouldn’t be the most pleasant thing, and people would have to be kept in some kind of secure facility until those guys are weeded out. No doubt there’d be a hue and cry about that, which come to think of it is probably one reason it’s unlikely to happen.
 
egb_hibs said:
One thing the UN, US or whatever could do, is provide rescue ships to take people out. The Israelis wouldn’t have a leg to stand on complaining about that - and if they do fuck em - and it doesn’t have to become involved in any more than humanitarian concerns. If Biden had any balls he would do this.

That said, you’d no doubt get Hamas wing nuts infiltrating the refugees so it probably wouldn’t be the most pleasant thing, and people would have to keep in some kind of secure facility until those guys are weeded out.
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Or not.

The next big issue in a world of selfish *&*^ would be where do the ships go.
 
Hammi said:
I wouldn't support it, but can't support what they done to kick off this specific retaliation either.

Horrible stuff dude.
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Agree its abhorrent what happened at that music festival
The whole thing for years is appalling

2009 btw and no outcry like there has been the last few days

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Absolutely heartbreaking videos and statistics coming out of gaza today
One of a dad holding his dead wee baby has hit hard

All innocent lives lost is terrible
War crime after war crime is being committed and nothing is said it



What a fucking horrible world this is
 
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