Iran

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gun ainm said:
at the risk of a board meltdown might it be BiBi is in his ear?
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Prepare Get Ready GIF by STARZ
 
gun ainm said:
at the risk of a board meltdown might it be BiBi is in his ear?
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In a way, I think eegie has actually already insinuated this? i.e. it would massively benefit Israel if Iran's regime are taken down, so it's a fair inference. Let's see!
 
emerald green said:
Oh dear.

I wasnae aware Amerikka was bombing the Ukraine or Russia? :read:
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Does your awareness extend to failure to notice that European geriatrics are having kittens in case the mercs cease to be involved in miltiarily enabling Ukraine?

Without which the Russkis would run over them and then who knows what?

Tbh I find this implausible.
 
gun ainm said:
at the risk of a board meltdown might it be BiBi is in his ear?
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Obviously so, since ZOG controls all western governments and manipulates all world events in its favour mein herr.

I mean its not like Iran have been America and the west's main nemesis since the fall of the USSR and the main obstacle to peace and stability across the strategically critical middle east. Nor that they plotted to assassinate the famously forgiving Donald Trump.

What does appear to be a sad possibility, is that a muted and equivocal response to all this among the usual western luvvies and loudmouths, is related to regret that the fuhrers of islamoleftism may come a cropper: to the enormous benefit of Iranians, Palestinians, Israelis, Syrians, Yemenis, Lebanese and humanity as a whole.
 
Smurf said:
You said you wanted Russia out of Ukraine....
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i posted a question as to what has Irans internal issues got to do with Donald Trump and America. Someone ignored it and started talking about Ukraine.

In respect Ukraine, yes, i would like russia out of their country. Im not sure America are threatening to bomb Russia.

I was interested in peoples thoughts about Trump and Iran on this thread. Which is entitled Iran.
 
That lad from @Davy videos on the radio there saying the met are battering pro freedom Iranians outside the London embassy. Pinch of salt required but let's see what the non msm show us in due course
 
egb_hibs said:
That lad from @Davy videos on the radio there saying the met are battering pro freedom Iranians outside the London embassy. Pinch of salt required but let's see what the non msm show us in due course
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You need to give your credentials to the Starmer regime to access footage of it on the Internet. If anyone is brave or foolhardy enough to do so, let us know what you see.
 
emerald green said:
What has the goings on in Iran got to do with Donald Trumps Amerikkka?

What justification do they have in respect of potentially bombing that country?
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Doubt it is just a co-incidence that Russia publicly try to start a new alliance of countries including China, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela etc and suddenly two of these are under the sphere of America's influence. I don't think Trump has stopped his America first rhetoric, but that he wants to extend the borders of America and take out any threats. But that is just a guess
 
looks like Reza Pahlavi can unpack his toothbrush, I'm increasingly circumspect of the protests and the idea there is a coherent popular alternative to the regime from within the country....it doesnt look as if its him despite the flag rebranding.....i suspect most know he'd be a puppet as one look at the hopelessly naive Iran Prosperity Project - Wikipedia would attest

here you have some nutjob calling for the balkanisation of the country because it'd be one in the eye for China/Russia and benefit Israel.... just arm the various factions - https://www.wsj.com/opinion/a-fractured-iran-might-not-be-so-bad-5ec2d702
 
gun ainm said:
here you have some nutjob calling for the balkanisation of the country because it'd be one in the eye for China/Russia and benefit Israel.... just arm the various factions - https://www.wsj.com/opinion/a-fractured-iran-might-not-be-so-bad-5ec2d702
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Such a pity that the stage is being set for such factionalism being the future of Britain.

But then you are a little less circumspect in that regard ;))

What is causing you to worry that hopes for Iran are naive? Years of people doing Iran and Hamas' work for them do not seem to have raised the same concerns, so I'm guessing there is something pretty serious underlying your concerns?

I don't disagree btw, that another shit show is highly likely. It's highly likely anywhere there are islamists and anywhere there is balkanisation. Put the two together...

But then that's my consistent view which, as above, you normally argue against, so what's of particular concern here?
 
Beginning to look like the mullahs might hang on. Corbyn and the likes will be pleased.

They know it's next to impossible for a population to topple a regime that hasn't already lost the stomach for maximum repression. Their platitudes about intervention thus strengthen the regimes position, and I expect are intended to.
 
Pro freedom demonstrators stabbed last night in Hamburg an all. Regime thugs on a European posting or just your regular German islamists, who knows? Perhaps something else entirely.
 
egb_hibs said:
Such a pity that the stage is being set for such factionalism being the future of Britain.

But then you are a little less circumspect in that regard ;))

What is causing you to worry that hopes for Iran are naive? Years of people doing Iran and Hamas' work for them do not seem to have raised the same concerns, so I'm guessing there is something pretty serious underlying your concerns?

I don't disagree btw, that another shit show is highly likely. It's highly likely anywhere there are islamists and anywhere there is balkanisation. Put the two together...

But then that's my consistent view which, as above, you normally argue against, so what's of particular concern here?
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I'm not sure what you're on about M?

my view is that the regime isn't perhaps as weak as was initially reported in the west and that the Iranians themselves perhaps aren't as clear eyed about what shape of system they'd prefer in the future?

Cheering on or allegedly arming factions from the outside in that scenario runs a high risk of propelling Iran into a bloody civil war that destroys it for at least a generation and results in the deaths and displacement of millions of people. That's not an outcome in their or I would argue our interests (even before we consider the ethics). There are some no doubt who might see that as a positive outcome, I do not.

From what I have read and intuit Baby Shah doesn't seem that popular and outcome either, likely viewed as another western imposed puppet like his Da who was both inept (economically), corrupt and brutal. We need to stop trying to turn countries into our idea of what they should be especially by provoking war, spending billions and the lives of others.
 
gun ainm said:
I'm not sure what you're on about M?
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I mean your are normally optimistic that balkanisation will not be a issue - here, for example - so why so pessimistic in this case?
gun ainm said:
my view is that the regime isn't perhaps as weak as was initially reported in the west and that the Iranians themselves perhaps aren't as clear eyed about what shape of system they'd prefer in the future?
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As I have been saying, it's almost impossible for a people's uprising to unseat a regime unless it has already lot the appetite for brutal repression.

The mullahs seem to have done a quick genocide, as I gather is now the term for killing lots of folk, realised the rest of the world was going to do feck all, and seem to have gone home with the result.
gun ainm said:
Cheering on or allegedly arming factions from the outside in that scenario runs a high risk of propelling Iran into a bloody civil war that destroys it for at least a generation and results in the deaths and displacement of millions of people. That's not an outcome in their or I would argue our interests (even before we consider the ethics). There are some no doubt who might see that as a positive outcome, I do not.
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I would absolutely agree though I think you exaggerate somewhat, in terms of what the article was discussing. Perhaps this is what stayed Trump's hand, who knows. He's pissing off his base enough, but a middle Eastern forever war is explicitly what they were wanting an end to.

But the opinion of one journalist doesn't necessarily mean that Iran would dissolve into sectarian warfare. I mean it very well might - goodness knows it's the usual in multicultural societies and when islamists have thd run of things - but it also might not. If the Shah apparent could have united the people around secular statehood, who knows?
gun ainm said:
From what I have read and intuit Baby Shah doesn't seem that popular and outcome either, likely viewed as another western imposed puppet like his Da who was both inept (economically), corrupt and brutal. We need to stop trying to turn countries into our idea of what they should be especially by provoking war, spending billions and the lives of others.
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As you note, western models cannot be forced, and secular strong men and monarchs are about as good as it gets in the middle East. He seems pretty popular outside the MEK islamoleft, who don't seem to have learned anything from their role in 1979 and who would certainly be one of the factions to worry about, alongside regime loyalists.

Not sure how we were provoking war, in fact it seems we have stood aside and let the mullahs murder thousands of freedom campaigners with impunity. Which may well be the less bloody route, I don't know, but it is very sad either way, as well as a lesson : islamists are hard to shift and the price is high. Let's hope we absorb it, along with the balkanisation risk you impress upon us.
 
I'm not sure when I've proposed or underplayed the risks of balkanisation, which I'd contrast with independence and liberation movements 🤷‍♂️ but anyway for the record I suspect basket case Iran is a worse outcome for us and them than islamofascist Iran despite my disdain for the latter. Concluding this does not make me an ally of the regime either despite the claims of he hawkish elements. My position is based on wider reading rather than the article but I wouldn't pretend to be an expert on Iran I could well be wrong....that said the prospective Shahs plan is there in black and white and if he means it he'd give up sovereignty which even the most moderate Sassenachs can't endure, never mind anyone else. It means Iran becomes a client state, the popularity of which would be largely amongst the clients rather than the slaves.
 
Imagine UK wasn't involved in overthrowing the previous ruling class in Iran!

Like every other country we got involved in...our Government invited this!

Look at historical pictures of Iran.
 
gun ainm said:
I'm not sure when I've proposed or underplayed the risks of balkanisation, which I'd contrast with independence and liberation movements 🤷‍♂️
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You seemed to be quite relaxed when I pointed out that is what the UK is wandering into. That was my point. Absent magic soil, there's no reason to believe that goes better here than over there.
gun ainm said:
but anyway for the record I suspect basket case Iran is a worse outcome for us and them than islamofascist Iran despite my disdain for the latter. Concluding this does not make me an ally of the regime either despite the claims of he hawkish elements. My position is based on wider reading rather than the article but I wouldn't pretend to be an expert on Iran I could well be wrong....that said the prospective Shahs plan is there in black and white and if he means it he'd give up sovereignty which even the most moderate Sassenachs can't endure, never mind anyone else. It means Iran becomes a client state, the popularity of which would be largely amongst the clients rather than the slaves.
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MEK aren't the regime dude. They are an islamoleft opposition group that went into exile or dissidency when their genius plan went south in 1979 and their co-idealogues went to the gallows. I expect if you are reading leftist fora - and I'm sure if you are, it won't be the only sources you are reading - they will be to the fore

Basket case Iran would indeed be a worst outcome and why the West should be very wary of intervention. Nevertheless the best outcome would be the Iranians managing to oust these feckers and establishing a secular state, which would hopefully be better for the likes of the Kurds. If that's under a shah, well that's up to them. A western style democracy would be nice but it's not the West.

And with that in mind I return to the start: it we want western style polities to maintain, it would be prudent for the West not to come to resemble Iranian conditions. Realpolitik abroad and flowerchild politics at home is a bit daft.

Not sure what your last bit means.
 
emerald green said:
I just did

We did? Who did we invite?


Heres one View attachment 20757

Is this the historical picture you meant, or did you mean the other one?
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He's right on his pictures point EGers

This is from Iran in the 70s

1000010836.jpg


But the dopey student bra burners and soy boys started behaving much like ours today

1000010840.jpg

And ended up murdered (as I believe was the fate of one of these girls), jailed (the other) having ensured future young women would be put in bags and risking murder if they demurred

They never ever learn
 
egb_hibs said:
He's right on his pictures point EGers

This is from Iran in the 70s

View attachment 20758


But the dopey student bra burners and soy boys started behaving much like ours today

View attachment 20759

And ended up murdered (as I believe was the fate of one of these girls), jailed (the other) having ensured future young women would be put in bags and risking murder if they demurred

They never ever learn
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I know exactly what the city dwelling Iranian women dressed like before the country had their religious "awakening". I was playing with the idiot.
 
Smurf said:
Anything to say Humza or Greta? Thought. Not.
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Anything to say all of those many humanitarians obsessively poring over war porn to fuel their outrage at Muslims being genocided, and for whom it was absolutely nothing to do with Jews being involved?
 
Sancho Panza said:
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if those numbers are anywhere near accurate that's horrific, the brutality of the regime in its crackdown on protests is disgusting no matter what the numbers (NYtimes for example estimates numbers at ~5k).

nobody in their right mind wouldn't be horrified by the stories coming out of Iran - what should be done however? I think most would say this is largely borne out of the economic crisis in the country caused by the sanctions imposed on the regime (I'm far from convinced that's the right policy - its collective punishment of ordinary people), the US president initially indicated military support for the protestors and then shied away...feels vaguely reminiscent of Iraq 91.
 
ps the current rest is history pod series on the Iranian revolution (allied to the earlier Empire Iranian series) is a good overview of how we ended up here
 
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