Artists you thought were cool, but then....

[Johnny Kash]

As a young walloper, I always thought Bryan Ferry was one of those sophisticated crooners, hanging around with super model types and loved a lot of his stuff. He seemed cool.

Im sure in his early-mid 70s Roxy period he probably was. I was shocked recently when I saw some of the 80s Avalon era videos - dated terribly and he actually goes full on Partridge here without the irony.

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Honourable mention for all of the Stone Roses, who were heroes of mine growing up but now most of them now just seem a bit odd. Yes we all get old and things dont stay the same.

Just thinking how the likes of Weller, Noel Gallagher, Johnny Marr and even Jagger still carry it off and are still swaggering well into their pensionable years IMO.

 

[Bangkokhibby]

I think "cool" means different things to different people. However for me 2 stand out by miles.

Phil Collins, the bearded, hippy drummer who turned into, well, Phil Collins.

Rod Stewart, rocker and decent blues singer. Now a crooner loved by many but not me.

 

[Johnny Kash]

I think "cool" means different things to different people. However for me 2 stand out by miles.

Phil Collins, the bearded, hippy drummer who turned into, well, Phil Collins.

Rod Stewart, rocker and decent blues singer. Now a crooner loved by many but not me.

Collins suffered a lot of vitriol, unfairly IMO. He was the pre-internet Nickelback.

I think those that suffer most from these comparisons are those that are at some point 'cool' - Roses would be the biggest culprits of this being at one point the absolute focal point of a scene/movement and all the expectations that come from that. When you've reached those heights it must be hard to maintain levels.

Having said this, the Mondays were of a similar ilk, and seeing them now they come across as kind of the same, just older.

 

[Bangkokhibby]

Collins suffered a lot of vitriol, unfairly IMO. He was the pre-internet Nickelback.

I think those that suffer most from these comparisons are those that are at some point 'cool' - Roses would be the biggest culprits of this being at one point the absolute focal point of a scene/movement and all the expectations that come from that. When you've reached those heights it must be hard to maintain levels.

Having said this, the Mondays were of a similar ilk, and seeing them now they come across as kind of the same, just older.

I'm afraid your examples mean little to me. Thought I might be too old for this thread

 

[egb_hibs]

Collins suffered a lot of vitriol, unfairly IMO. He was the pre-internet Nickelback.

I think those that suffer most from these comparisons are those that are at some point 'cool' - Roses would be the biggest culprits of this being at one point the absolute focal point of a scene/movement and all the expectations that come from that. When you've reached those heights it must be hard to maintain levels.

Having said this, the Mondays were of a similar ilk, and seeing them now they come across as kind of the same, just older.

It’s a bit of an irrational bugbear of mine, but it has been since that time.

The Mondays were more authentic than the Roses and maybe this is why they are still the same. The Mondays were straight off the football terraces where the Stone Roses were fashion hos.

For example compare happy mondays photo from 86 and Stone Roses in 85

 

[emerald green]

It’s a bit of an irrational bugbear of mine, but it has been since that time.

The Mondays were more authentic than the Roses and maybe this is why they are still the same. The Mondays were straight off the football terraces where the Stone Roses were fashion hos.

For example compare happy mondays photo from 86 and Stone Roses in 85


View attachment 13680


View attachment 13681

what a loady shite egb

 

[egb_hibs]

what a loady shite egb

I’ve laid out my exhibits old boy. I’ve got more where they came from.

 

[emerald green]

I’ve laid out my exhibits old boy. I’ve got more where they came from.

Mate, the post was a loady shite. Sorry.

 

[Johnny Kash]

I'm afraid your examples mean little to me. Thought I might be too old for this thread

I'm in my 50s so I dont think so

Rod was a force of nature in The Faces, his evolvement into crooner/soul singer seemed more natural even though he became 'commercial'

 

[egb_hibs]

Mate, the post was a loady shite. Sorry.

You’re welcome to expand. 1985 was when what became the Manchester look was being worn in Scotland; flared jeans or cords, cartoon tee shirts etc. It would have been earlier in Manchester and Liverpool. There are photos of the Happy Mondays going back to the early 80s which correspond to that football scene in terms of how they are decked out. The Roses at the time were goths, at least on stage.

Maybe this is why even in 89 / 90 the Roses ended up in the ridiculous student disco extremes of monster sized jeans and tee shirts whereas the Mondays retained a more credible look.

Look none of this matters, they and we are old men, and this was youth fashion. But perhaps it chimes with JK’s take on the Mondays still resembling what they were more than do the Roses. The Mondays always ‘were more what they were’

 

[Johnny Kash]

It’s a bit of an irrational bugbear of mine, but it has been since that time.

The Mondays were more authentic than the Roses and maybe this is why they are still the same. The Mondays were straight off the football terraces where the Stone Roses were fashion hos.

For example compare happy mondays photo from 86 and Stone Roses in 85


View attachment 13680

It’s a bit of an irrational bugbear of mine, but it has been since that time.

The Mondays were more authentic than the Roses and maybe this is why they are still the same. The Mondays were straight off the football terraces where the Stone Roses were fashion hos.

For example compare happy mondays photo from 86 and Stone Roses in 85


View attachment 13680


View attachment 13681

where is Ian Astbury?

 

[egb_hibs]

where is Ian Astbury?

Exactement, mon ami. Ian Brown is attempting to be him by the looks, although the cane is more redolent of that bloke from Sisters of Mercy

 

[emerald green]

You’re welcome to expand. 1985 was when what became the Manchester look was being worn in Scotland; flared jeans or cords, cartoon tee shirts etc. It would have been earlier in Manchester and Liverpool. There are photos of the Happy Mondays going back to the early 80s which correspond to that football scene in terms of how they are decked out. The Roses at the time were goths, at least on stage.

Maybe this is why even in 89 / 90 the Roses ended up in the ridiculous student disco extremes of monster sized jeans and tee shirts whereas the Mondays retained a more credible look.

Look none of this matters, they and we are old men, and this was youth fashion. But perhaps it chimes with JK’s take on the Mondays still resembling what they were more than do the Roses. The Mondays always ‘were more what they were’

Shaun Ryder is thick as shit. So is Bez.... Mani just wanted tae play, man, Squires was/ is an artist, Reni was always a bit of a knob, and Brown always had his shit together. I loved both as a kid and saw both many times.

Youre trying tae paint some working class hero/middle class uni divide which is a bag o shite. Its wasnae a thing back in the day so no sure how its warped into that in your mind 35yrs later. Yer twistin ma fuckin melons here man.

Sorry i cannae go farther into it, im busy at work, putting some time in maintaining the health of the people of Scotland and helping save lives. Hallelujah !!

 

[Bangkokhibby]

I'm in my 50s so I dont think so

Rod was a force of nature in The Faces, his evolvement into crooner/soul singer seemed more natural even though he became 'commercial'

Fair enough It seems I haven't fully understood the point of this thread then.

 

[Two Headed Boy]

I was a teenage Morrissey obsessive and it lasted way too long (well into my 20s).

I still like a lot of the songs but when I think about how important I thought Moz was in comparison to pretty much every other songwriter it brings a lot of retrospective cringe. His lyrics, on the whole, are great but probably not as vital as I thought they were during the peak of my fandom.

I've seen him live an embarrassing amount of times. I never grew a quiff or cut about with gladioli in the arse pocket of my jeans but between 1994 and 2008 the chances of you seeing my stick thin frame in a skin-tight Moz or Smiths t-shirt was highly likely. I was also a typical indie-kid hipster smart arse when I was younger which definitely bore a Moz influence. I'll also put my vegetarianism and subsequent veganism largely down to him too... I wonder if falling out of love with all things Morrissey is the reason I've started eating seafood again?

His politics do not chime with mine, and likely never did, but I was happy to make excuses about double meanings and context when that was uncomfortable back in the day.

I think this classic meme sums it up:

 

[Peevemor]

As a young walloper, I always thought Bryan Ferry was one of those sophisticated crooners, hanging around with super model types and loved a lot of his stuff. He seemed cool.

Im sure in his early-mid 70s Roxy period he probably was. I was shocked recently when I saw some of the 80s Avalon era videos - dated terribly and he actually goes full on Partridge here without the irony.

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Honourable mention for all of the Stone Roses, who were heroes of mine growing up but now most of them now just seem a bit odd. Yes we all get old and things dont stay the same.

Just thinking how the likes of Weller, Noel Gallagher, Johnny Marr and even Jagger still carry it off and are still swaggering well into their pensionable years IMO.

I agree re Bryan Ferry. He always struck me as the ultimate in coolness up until Live Aid - where he just looked like a fanny.

 

[1875]

I was a teenage Morrissey obsessive and it lasted way too long (well into my 20s).

I still like a lot of the songs but when I think about how important I thought Moz was in comparison to pretty much every other songwriter it brings a lot of retrospective cringe. His lyrics, on the whole, are great but probably not as vital as I thought they were during the peak of my fandom.

I've seen him live an embarrassing amount of times. I never grew a quiff or cut about with gladioli in the arse pocket of my jeans but between 1994 and 2008 the chances of you seeing my stick thin frame in a skin-tight Moz or Smiths t-shirt was highly likely. I was also a typical indie-kid hipster smart arse when I was younger which definitely bore a Moz influence. I'll also put my vegetarianism and subsequent veganism largely down to him too... I wonder if falling out of love with all things Morrissey is the reason I've started eating seafood again?

His politics do not chime with mine, and likely never did, but I was happy to make excuses about double meanings and context when that was uncomfortable back in the day.

I think this classic meme sums it up:

View attachment 13682

An aside, but no, its because, seafood is generally delicious.

 

[Two Headed Boy]

An aside, but no, its because, seafood is generally delicious.

Aye I was being a bit flippant.

It was a trip to Mull to a few years back when I was looking at yet another dull as fuck pasta dish on the menu while everyone else was getting langoustines, mussels and smoked salmon...

Did a bit of feeble mental wrestling with my conscience (It says sustainable fishing methods right there and they're happy and free until they're caught right?).

Never looked back.

 

[FTJT]

His politics do not chime with mine, and likely never did, but I was happy to make excuses about double meanings and context when that was uncomfortable back in the day.

I think most folk did, because assuming he was being literal about large tracts of the horrible shit he's said over the years would be incoherent alongside the general spirit of his lyrics and writing. If someone's whole schtick is sympathy for the outsider, and he's calling for Pakistanis to be thrown in a canal or whatever, you'd think surely, surely to god he's being facetious

 

[egb_hibs]

Shaun Ryder is thick as shit. So is Bez.... Mani just wanted tae play, man, Squires was/ is an artist, Reni was always a bit of a knob, and Brown always had his shit together. I loved both as a kid and saw both many times.

Youre trying tae paint some working class hero/middle class uni divide which is a bag o shite. Its wasnae a thing back in the day so no sure how its warped into that in your mind 35yrs later. Yer twistin ma fuckin melons here man.

I’m not. I’m only saying that the Mondays were definitely from the scene that gave rise to the look and much of the culture, and the Roses, at least on stage, were not. The student disco line was a reference to the clownish extremes that happened once the indie kids adopted football fashion. Ian Brown does not strike me, or I suspect anyone, as a middle class uni type.

Sorry i cannae go farther into it, im busy at work, putting some time in maintaining the health of the people of Scotland and helping save lives. Hallelujah !!

God speed young man.

 

[egb_hibs]

An aside, but no, it’s because, seafood is generally delicious.

Seafood that isnae fish is better than fish imho, would you concur ? So shellfish, crustaceans, octopus, squid. I love that stuff but am lukewarm on fish themselves.

Should you ever find yourself in New Orleans you must try a po’ boy sandwich. They do them in all kinds now but the real deal is shrimp or crawfish. I recommend crawfish if you only get one swing at it.

 

[1875]

Seafood that isnae fish is better than fish imho, would you concur ? So shellfish, crustaceans, octopus, squid. I love that stuff but am lukewarm on fish themselves.

Should you ever find yourself in New Orleans you must try a po’ boy sandwich. They do them in all kinds now but the real deal is shrimp or crawfish. I recommend crawfish if you only get one swing at it.

For another thread methinks.

 

[Stu]

As a young walloper, I always thought Bryan Ferry was one of those sophisticated crooners, hanging around with super model types and loved a lot of his stuff. He seemed cool.

Im sure in his early-mid 70s Roxy period he probably was. I was shocked recently when I saw some of the 80s Avalon era videos - dated terribly and he actually goes full on Partridge here without the irony.

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Brian Ferry always had a suave personna and image but nevertheless, the way he moved on stage was always distinctly awkward. His dancing did not equate to his coolness in other ways!

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Who remembers when rock or pop musicians caused outrage with the establishment?

Seems to me that Morrissey still pisses off the establishment whilst the one time 'outsiders' now have their songs used in adverts.

So kick on Mozz keep on pissing folk off.

 

[Alex Edwards Shin pad]

Ive got a load of early Rod Stewart albums but once he started all that do you think am sexy shit that was me finished

 

[Bangkokhibby]

Ive got a load of early Rod Stewart albums but once he started all that do you think am sexy shit that was me finished

Like night and day eh?

 

[Minty]

Alex Turner - all the voice change stuff has been weird. The music has also become more dull as time has gone on.

 

[egb_hibs]

Who remembers when rock or pop musicians caused outrage with the establishment?

Yup. Don’t really follow contemporary pop music but I can’t think of a single artist that might have retired professors raging over their muesli. And it’s been like this for all of c21 that I can recall.

The anti establishment became the establishment, and are much more effective at quashing dissent than those they replaced.

 

[Dub]

I was a teenage Morrissey obsessive and it lasted way too long (well into my 20s).

I still like a lot of the songs but when I think about how important I thought Moz was in comparison to pretty much every other songwriter it brings a lot of retrospective cringe. His lyrics, on the whole, are great but probably not as vital as I thought they were during the peak of my fandom.

I've seen him live an embarrassing amount of times. I never grew a quiff or cut about with gladioli in the arse pocket of my jeans but between 1994 and 2008 the chances of you seeing my stick thin frame in a skin-tight Moz or Smiths t-shirt was highly likely. I was also a typical indie-kid hipster smart arse when I was younger which definitely bore a Moz influence. I'll also put my vegetarianism and subsequent veganism largely down to him too... I wonder if falling out of love with all things Morrissey is the reason I've started eating seafood again?

His politics do not chime with mine, and likely never did, but I was happy to make excuses about double meanings and context when that was uncomfortable back in the day.

I think this classic meme sums it up:

View attachment 13682

I'm surprised you managed to live through your Morrissey years without slitting your wrists in time to what he laughingly called music,

 

[Dub]

Yup. Don’t really follow contemporary pop music but I can’t think of a single artist that might have retired professors raging over their muesli. And it’s been like this for all of c21 that I can recall.

The anti establishment became the establishment, and are much more effective at quashing dissent than those they replaced.

Talking of retired professors - Tom Lehrer is fantastic, not cool perhaps but well worth listening to.

 

[Dub]

Who remembers when rock or pop musicians caused outrage with the establishment?

Seems to me that Morrissey still pisses off the establishment whilst the one time 'outsiders' now have their songs used in adverts.

So kick on Mozz keep on pissing folk off.

Devil music as my dad put it. Mind you, anyone more risque than Mario Lanza was borderline diablo to old Arthur.

 

[Alex Edwards Shin pad]

Buzzcocks i loved that band growing up but since Pete Shelley and Steve Diggle took over they are woefull

Seen them in Blackpool a few yrs ago and was so dissapointed it was painful to watch they played Scarborough punk festival last weekend and the reports am getting is they havent got any better

there Playing Scotland Calling next month i might just go get chips when there on

 

[Beagle]

A barman of my acquaintance used to put The Smiths/Morrisey on the speakers and turn the volume up when it came to turfing oot time. He didnae have to hassle folk to drink up and leave, it was a fuckin stampede to get oot.

 

[FTJT]

Buzzcocks i loved that band growing up but since Pete Shelley and Steve Diggle took over they are woefull

Little puzzled by this because they were...basically the band? wrote all the songs from the beginning apart from a couple of Devoto credits on the first LP, which he was already gone before they recorded. (Plus Pete Shelley's been dead for years now)

If you just mean the stuff after they reunited was shite then yeah definitely. I don't think anyone involved in the band produced anything decent after about 1983

 

[Jack K]

Buzzcocks i loved that band growing up but since Pete Shelley and Steve Diggle took over they are woefull

Seen them in Blackpool a few yrs ago and was so dissapointed it was painful to watch they played Scarborough punk festival last weekend and the reports am getting is they havent got any better

there Playing Scotland Calling next month i might just go get chips when there on

Shelley has been dead for more than 5 years. Nae wonder he's no very good now!

Shelley and Diggle were the Buzzcocks. They were the singer the guitarist and the *songwriters.
*Devoto co wrote the 4 tracks on the Spiral Scratch EP and from memory 3 tracks on Side 1 of the first album but he was gone before it was released.

I last saw them live 20 years ago and they very much still had it.
They were touring the album Buzzcocks which was released in 2003. I listened to it before going and it was at least a 4 star album.
So the songwriting and live show was still very much intact after 27 years which I thought was impressive.

You should probably have stopped going to see punks from the original scene about a decade ago. I see the UK Subs are at the Scotland Calling that you are going to, their vocalist Charlie Harper will be 80 a month after it takes place. I can't think of anything less punk than that.
Pensioner performers and hip replacement audiences are not rock and roll and certainly not punk.

 

[Purple & Green]

I thought Midge Ure’s Ultravox was cool, but in hindsight John Foxx was much cooler and Midge Ure’s version were insipid biege music.

 

[hibadelic]

It’s a bit of an irrational bugbear of mine, but it has been since that time.

The Mondays were more authentic than the Roses and maybe this is why they are still the same. The Mondays were straight off the football terraces where the Stone Roses were fashion hos.

For example compare happy mondays photo from 86 and Stone Roses in 85


View attachment 13680


View attachment 13681

You can find old photos of Ian Brown in various guises including scooter boy. Their garb is pretty rank in your pic but it was years before the Madchester scene which they distanced themselves from.

What were Flowered Up wearing in '85?

 

[1875]

You can find old photos of Ian Brown in various guises including scooter boy. Their garb is pretty rank in your pic but it was years before the Madchester scene which they distanced themselves from.

What were Flowered Up wearing in '85?

He was a scooter boy and rode one to rallies, like thousands of us did, pre madchester.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Devil music as my dad put it. Mind sanadianyou, anyone more risque than Mario Marie'Lanza was borderline diablo to old Arthur.

My auld man had the Student Prince Lanza giving it good style.
Kind of grew on me.
Mind you my auld man was in.the Bucket of Blood when David Whitfield was doing 'Rose Marie' in the Empire. Playing darts in full Canadian Mounties uniform on, fucking sreamboats before getting huckled by theatre security staff and dragged off to perform. Quality

BIG G.

 

[Dub]

My auld man had the Student Prince Lanza giving it good style.
Kind of grew on me.
Mind you my auld man was in.the Bucket of Blood when David Whitfield was doing 'Rose Marie' in the Empire. Playing darts in full Canadian Mounties uniform on, fucking sreamboats before getting huckled by theatre security staff and dragged off to perform. Quality

BIG G.

Even I'm too young to remember Rose Marie G.