Ukraine.

[EH17 Jimmy]

So do we like democracy and living in democracies?

You mentioned Orban and Le Pen in your post. They are popular politicians.

The only reason Le Pen gets kept out is because supposed political rivals hold hands when needed.

The former Communist heartlands in Northern France are Le Pen strongholds.

So what is the answer? Ban political parties from standing? Disenfranchise millions of voters because their views are 'unacceptable'.

Maybe listening to citizens hopes and fears and acting on them is the way forward.

The Hungarian folk seem quite happy to keep voting for Orban. And i know of no other European nations governments who forced banks and utility companies to refund money to citizens.

Back to Le Pen. The whole French political establishment and msm are anti Le Pen. Why are French voters still turning to her in their thousands?

Roughly 50% of citizens vote in EU elections so it's hardly popular.....



Turnout had constantly fallen in every EU election from 1979 until 2014. The 2019 election, however, saw turnout increase to its highest level since 1994, at 51%. In 2009, the overall turnout was at 43%, down from 45.5% in 2004. In Britain the turnout was just 34.3%, down from 38% in 2004.

 

[jetsam1]

In the last few weeks Orban's popularity has taken a major nosedive. The country is gerrymandered to the hilt and votes bought for sacks of potatoes in the very poorest regions. He is anti Eu to make himself look all big and hard. Loves taking the money though. Haven't seen Audi or Merceded being kicked out as "Globalist".......... Hard to find anyone who actually admits to supporting him.... He was merely buying the last election as his mates own most of the media and the main core of his support is the rural regions.

I would say in Western Europe there has been peace and prosperity for normal people the likes of which have never been known that there is a high level of complacency, it has always been such and always will.

Popularity of politicians? Lets Godwin this!!! Hitler was popular, look what happened. Lenin was popular at one point, where did that go? Mugabe was popular, destroyed his own country. Bois was popular. Popularity does lead to actual policy that is helpful. Orban and his mates have become richer than you would realistically accept a salaried politician should be able to.

Hungarian nationalists are still under the spell of Trianon. Le Pen is economically illeterate and all she would bring is chaos as the extremes only offer simple answers that reality has a tendency to bypass as the world is complex. But people don't want to hear about hard, complex policies, they want nice simple knee jerks.

The answer, well, for the UK a more representative system, UKIP at 4 million votes should have had more than one MP and we could then measure them by their actions in daylight. Conversely the Greens should have a lot more representation and the Tories are majorly over represented. Le Pen was allowed a platorm, as was AFD. Le Pen's problem is that her real views are known, if the Front National (or whateever they want to call themselves) come up with someone new that might be different. The left are no better giving us the likes of Corbyn.

Maybe teaching Political Science and Ethics in school might help. Maybe just teaching critical thinking full stop. But no, education is a political football and as all teachers are woke commies who are those who failed at everything else (hence why they are teachers) that will never happen. Rote learning it is then.

OK, if people want the likes of Le Pen and have their "legitimate concerns" listened to fine. If those concerns mean we all end up with mini-me Putins well if that is what the people want we can sit back and just watch then.

 

[jetsam1]

TLDR: It is largely a cohort of powerful, bitter old men ruining it for the rest of us.

 

[Davy]

@jetsam1 You make some good points, too many to look into in one go. I was to go slightly deeper into the word Nationalist. We use it a lot here and it is often bandied around as something terrible, sometimes being mistaken for fascism. The whole terms nationalist, fascist, far-right etc are being so intermingled it can be had to distinguish what is what. Few people would see someone who wanted independence for Scotland as a Fascist but might use that term for others in Ukraine, Hungary etc and even USA. In fact yes I do believe there is fascists in most countries but they are the sharp end of a very wide sword which encompasses all manners of opinions. I have visited and felt welcomed in Ukraine, Hungary and even India but am no expert on any. But I find it interesting that a lot of peoples views there are very much like the UK of 30-50 years ago. So perhaps we just have to wait a few years till they catch up, but then again will we have moved in another direction? Another thing we could ask is, is everything right about the West? It might be good to accept new cultural norms but how far do we go? For example allowing growing children to understand what same sex relationships are and not to negatively discriminate is one thing, but is it healthy to give that child a choice of 100 different types of gender to pick what they think they are? Again it is good to positively accept differing religions or none, but when it has negative impacts, it is not good. Perhaps this is why some people look to other philosophies or the past and think it was better then, let's return to that system. People who had jobs during the Soviet era might look back with rose tinted glasses, but really as is now it was only the politicians and their backers getting rich.

But nationalism surely does mean a need to recognise your own culture, perhaps religion and what you want social norms to be. Every country has it's own issues and where cultures differ greatly, normally is where a fragile peace exists. Often there is an acceptance of peoples belief but also a fear which is sometimes real, sometimes manufactured but is there. For example while lets say a particular religion promoted complete abstinence from alcohol some people would be glad, others feel their rights had been taken away if it was imposed on a political level. This of course was the case in USA with Christians and to a lesser extent in UK so so some countries might say, we are fine with a Muslim for example not wishing to drink alcohol, but we do not want them here outvoting us, taking power and running our lives. We have our culture and want it to stay this way. That to me is a form of nationalism and not fascism. Fascism would be where the people opposed were targeted and prejudiced against. I am not saying what is right or wrong here but trying to establish what nationalism is and when it goes bad. Plus I am rambling, probably came well off subject and losing my thread, plus I am tired and have a half marathon in the morning

 

[Rocky]

For the Left, you obviusly would welcome a leftist version of autocracy as the only way a pure socialist system could be implemented as this will not win an election.

I've never really thought of you as a mad right winger from your posts before. Is this the sort of thing that even normal people are starting to think? The mental rhetoric from the extreme right wing is really getting through? How tf did those c***s manage to convince gullible folk that being in favour of social justice and supporting the vulnerable is the same as supporting autocratic regimes? Give yourself a fucking shake

 

[HaarlemShuffler]

@jetsam1 You make some good points, too many to look into in one go. I was to go slightly deeper into the word Nationalist. We use it a lot here and it is often bandied around as something terrible, sometimes being mistaken for fascism. The whole terms nationalist, fascist, far-right etc are being so intermingled it can be had to distinguish what is what. Few people would see someone who wanted independence for Scotland as a Fascist but might use that term for others in Ukraine, Hungary etc and even USA. In fact yes I do believe there is fascists in most countries but they are the sharp end of a very wide sword which encompasses all manners of opinions. I have visited and felt welcomed in Ukraine, Hungary and even India but am no expert on any. But I find it interesting that a lot of peoples views there are very much like the UK of 30-50 years ago. So perhaps we just have to wait a few years till they catch up, but then again will we have moved in another direction? Another thing we could ask is, is everything right about the West? It might be good to accept new cultural norms but how far do we go? For example allowing growing children to understand what same sex relationships are and not to negatively discriminate is one thing, but is it healthy to give that child a choice of 100 different types of gender to pick what they think they are? Again it is good to positively accept differing religions or none, but when it has negative impacts, it is not good. Perhaps this is why some people look to other philosophies or the past and think it was better then, let's return to that system. People who had jobs during the Soviet era might look back with rose tinted glasses, but really as is now it was only the politicians and their backers getting rich.

But nationalism surely does mean a need to recognise your own culture, perhaps religion and what you want social norms to be. Every country has it's own issues and where cultures differ greatly, normally is where a fragile peace exists. Often there is an acceptance of peoples belief but also a fear which is sometimes real, sometimes manufactured but is there. For example while lets say a particular religion promoted complete abstinence from alcohol some people would be glad, others feel their rights had been taken away if it was imposed on a political level. This of course was the case in USA with Christians and to a lesser extent in UK so so some countries might say, we are fine with a Muslim for example not wishing to drink alcohol, but we do not want them here outvoting us, taking power and running our lives. We have our culture and want it to stay this way. That to me is a form of nationalism and not fascism. Fascism would be where the people opposed were targeted and prejudiced against. I am not saying what is right or wrong here but trying to establish what nationalism is and when it goes bad. Plus I am rambling, probably came well off subject and losing my thread, plus I am tired and have a half marathon in the morning

We all need to get a grip

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Jetsam

"Le Pen is economically illeterate and all she would bring is chaos as the extremes only offer simple answers that reality has a tendency to bypass as the world is complex."

Well I would say that she is not the only politician guilty of that. I still don't understand how when we were in the EU the UK was skint and yet we could lend money to other nations....

"Le Pen was allowed a platorm, as was AFD. Le Pen's problem is that her real views are known, if the Front National (or whateever they want to call themselves) come up with someone new that might be different. The left are no better giving us the likes of Corbyn."

And voters STILL embrace them.....

"OK, if people want the likes of Le Pen and have their "legitimate concerns" listened to fine. If those concerns mean we all end up with mini-me Putins well if that is what the people want we can sit back and just watch then."

But surely that is up to a nations citizens to decide? If all goes pear shaped then there's no one else to blame.

Before the war started in the Ukraine it was the most corrupt nation in Europe.

Hungarian corruption = bad
Ukrainian corruption = we see no corruption.....

Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe


While the conflict with Russia heats up in the east, life for most Ukrainians is marred by corruption so endemic that even hospitals appear to be infected. Can anyone clean the country up?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Davy
Some excellent points there mate. What makes one nations nationalism good and another nations nationalism bad?

As you say the terms fascist, far right etc are basically redundant. If someone votes the 'wrong way' they get far right howled at them.

So English nationalism becomes fascist or far right while Scottish nationalism is seen as virtuous.

Another good point you make is the nonsense being indoctrinated into Bairns regarding gender. Folk objecting to that indoctrination are attacked as being full of hate.

Yet when Muslim parents object to their Bairns being indoctrinated excuse after excuse is made to not offend them.

Christ knows what the world will be like when the intolerant illiberal liberal dafties currently at uni end up running nation's in the future.

 

[jetsam1]

View attachment 9003

I've never really thought of you as a mad right winger from your posts before. Is this the sort of thing that even normal people are starting to think? The mental rhetoric from the extreme right wing is really getting through? How tf did those c***s manage to convince gullible folk that being in favour of social justice and supporting the vulnerable is the same as supporting autocratic regimes? Give yourself a fucking shake

I am certainly not a mad right winger. Putting the point that extremes have to be imposed. The right wing extremists got their Brexit by lying through their teeth and and then going for pretty much the most extreme version they could which was absolutely not on offer during the referendum itself.

A government like Atlee's would be up my street, even first term Blair before he went bonkers. Shame Smith died so early. I don't see Attlee as massively ideologically driven. The world Moaty or GordonSmith want however is heavily informed and driven by ideology. That is what I don't agree with. I distrust ideologies and people who come along with certainty as it rarely ends well. I am certainly not of the right and I find their base ideology and what they are increasingly morphing into abhorrent.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

I am certainly not a mad right winger. Putting the point that extremes have to be imposed. The right wing extremists got their Brexit by lying through their teeth and and then going for pretty much the most extreme version they could which was absolutely not on offer during the referendum itself.

A government like Atlee's would be up my street, even first term Blair before he went bonkers. Shame Smith died so early. I don't see Attlee as massively ideologically driven. The world Moaty or GordonSmith want however is heavily informed and driven by ideology. That is what I don't agree with. I distrust ideologies and people who come along with certainty as it rarely ends well. I am certainly not of the right and I find their base ideology and what they are increasingly morphing into abhorrent.

Jetsam
The right wing extremists? And was it them that got the largest ever vote in UK history to vote brexit?

Maybe those who ran the brexit campaign tapped into folks concerns where remain ignored them.

I was in full support of just leaving and getting on with life.

If remain had won i would also have just got on with life.

The EU is a centre right entity in my opinion.

 

[jetsam1]

Farage and UKIP are extremists and have taken over the Tory party at grass roots level giving us what we have now and we are about to get. UKIP had plenty of the Britain First types anf ex BNP. I know exactly what they are and what they want couched in language of "freedom". The referendum was a Tory planned action argued for by Tories and the wider right. Your left wing version was not on offer, it was barely mentioned in mass media and I don't remember it being gone through much if at all. Maybe as much of a failure to push an alternative narrative rather than anything else. Labour sat on the fence, if Corbyn despised the EU he should have come out and said it straight up and made the case.

Anyway the world is going to poo and lots of people seem to like this sabre rattling so, oh well, whatever. Best to just stop caring and look at the world on a Geological timescale, we are in trouble basically. Existential trouble. Should I care? Does it actually matter if because of climate change and conflict we shove ourselves back to a rump population with stone age technology? We are supposed to be intelligent but if farming collapses and mass population migration as large parts of the world become uninhabitable the potential for conflict is very high. Only one way politics would go and that would be way to the right of Hitler.

I have little faith in humanity and as God doesn't exist I see a good chance of us destroying ourselves. The EU and UN where the last attempts to actually try a different direction where the old ways had failed catastrophically, and even then there was a Cold War between two blocks. So all humans can do and are capable of is conflict. The eveidence around the world and in history suggests this fact as soon as farming and the first settlements dveloped allowing vertical power structures to develop.

 

[Davy]

In a move which pushes right into Russian stronghold, Ikraine sent missiles into Crimea. They destroyed an airfield used for attacks on Krne, 4 ammo depots 2 troop bases and one headquarters. Thousands of residents in Crimea are fleeing towards Russia. Many of them are Russian settlers who moved in ter 2014.

More fuel dumps hit in the East including a massive dump the Russians thought was safe in the South of Zaporizhzhia region where the Russians had been confident was out of reach...u till Ukraine gained long range weapons.


It is reported RF are trying to take (kidnap) another 108 children and move them to Russia


Avostal defenders are being used to dig up corpses in Mariupol. These bodies are already decaying and there is little hygiene for the troops. This is another attempt to cover up the atrocities committed by committing more.


My friend in Russia does not seem to be talking to me any more..I said very little to her but I guess even the tiniest bit of truth hurts.


There is another virus revealed itself in China which is probably derived from animals. 35 cases so far. It is genipavirus "Lanja" which is similar to Nipah, one of the most dangerous in the world.Symptoms include fever, fatigue, anorexia,
Cough, myalgia, nausea, vomiting. There is no cure for Nipah and has mortality rate of 40-75%

Sleep well

 

[paigntonhibby]

In a move which pushes right into Russian stronghold, Ikraine sent missiles into Crimea. They destroyed an airfield used for attacks on Krne, 4 ammo depots 2 troop bases and one headquarters. Thousands of residents in Crimea are fleeing towards Russia. Many of them are Russian settlers who moved in ter 2014.

More fuel dumps hit in the East including a massive dump the Russians thought was safe in the South of Zaporizhzhia region where the Russians had been confident was out of reach...u till Ukraine gained long range weapons.


It is reported RF are trying to take (kidnap) another 108 children and move them to Russia


Avostal defenders are being used to dig up corpses in Mariupol. These bodies are already decaying and there is little hygiene for the troops. This is another attempt to cover up the atrocities committed by committing more.


My friend in Russia does not seem to be talking to me any more..I said very little to her but I guess even the tiniest bit of truth hurts.


There is another virus revealed itself in China which is probably derived from animals. 35 cases so far. It is genipavirus "Lanja" which is similar to Nipah, one of the most dangerous in the world.Symptoms include fever, fatigue, anorexia,
Cough, myalgia, nausea, vomiting. There is no cure for Nipah and has mortality rate of 40-75%

Sleep well

Love Reading your reports you little bundle of joy

 

[Davy]

Love Reading your reports you little bundle of joy

What's the day worth without a smile and a grumble

 

[Smurf]

Ukraine now wants Crimea back... this won't end well if they continue dropping bombs on Crinea...

 

[Davy]

Ukraine now wants Crimea back... this won't end well if they continue dropping bombs on Crinea...

Perhaps, but they are hitting military targets and bridges unlike Russia with their scorched earth policy. Anyway the demographics of Crimea has probably changed a lot as many who support4d Ukraine had left. Ti be honest I dont see them getting Ctimea back because they are blowing bridges which will prevent them moving in. Without peace though Crimea is going to become a kind of no managed land

 

[Smurf]

Perhaps, but they are hitting military targets and bridges unlike Russia with their scorched earth policy. Anyway the demographics of Crimea has probably changed a lot as many who support4d Ukraine had left. Ti be honest I dont see them getting Ctimea back because they are blowing bridges which will prevent them moving in. Without peace though Crimea is going to become a kind of no managed land

I think we in the west (led by the U.S) are playing a dangerous game. The feeling is that Putin can't conscript soldiers. And that he's not capable of using strategic nuclear weapons. Because he's not got the power to do either. Let's hope they've got this right..

 

[moathibby]

Farage and UKIP are extremists and have taken over the Tory party at grass roots level giving us what we have now and we are about to get. UKIP had plenty of the Britain First types anf ex BNP. I know exactly what they are and what they want couched in language of "freedom". The referendum was a Tory planned action argued for by Tories and the wider right. Your left wing version was not on offer, it was barely mentioned in mass media and I don't remember it being gone through much if at all. Maybe as much of a failure to push an alternative narrative rather than anything else. Labour sat on the fence, if Corbyn despised the EU he should have come out and said it straight up and made the case.

Anyway the world is going to poo and lots of people seem to like this sabre rattling so, oh well, whatever. Best to just stop caring and look at the world on a Geological timescale, we are in trouble basically. Existential trouble. Should I care? Does it actually matter if because of climate change and conflict we shove ourselves back to a rump population with stone age technology? We are supposed to be intelligent but if farming collapses and mass population migration as large parts of the world become uninhabitable the potential for conflict is very high. Only one way politics would go and that would be way to the right of Hitler.

I have little faith in humanity and as God doesn't exist I see a good chance of us destroying ourselves. The EU and UN where the last attempts to actually try a different direction where the old ways had failed catastrophically, and even then there was a Cold War between two blocks. So all humans can do and are capable of is conflict. The eveidence around the world and in history suggests this fact as soon as farming and the first settlements dveloped allowing vertical power structures to develop.

You're looking at a microcossom of human existance,by far the longest period in human history was lived under a communal hunter gatherer mode where feuds were either small or non existant.Real conflict came into being with the plough which created surplus for the first time and therefore the idea of property.

 

[moathibby]

'Dear Ukranian Refugee we'll take you in! We'll give you a room,feed you get you set up, help you out '(It'll look good on my social media pages,I'll be all the talk of my neighbours)'.'Dear Ukranian Refugee,it's been a month now,isn't it about time you fucked off? Your's a loving caring UK citizen.

 

[Davy]

Explosions in occupied Berdyansk port where it is believed welders were flouting safety rules and caused fuel and lubricants to go up in flames.

UF destroyed the base of Wagner thanks to a tip off from a Russian military correspondent. Russia deny the death of evgeny Prigozhin, A russian Oligarch close to Putin and who runs three organisations including Wagner; but no one has heard from him since the attack. No big loss

In most areas of conflict UF manage to see off attacks in the East but RF have some partial success in a few areas.

UF continue to urge residents of Kherson to evacuate the area as winter is difficult enough but to try and liberate areas with residents in them is even more difficult.

Another 3 ammunition dumps, 3 bases and one barracks of RF destroyed

43,550 deaths of RF troops reported by Ukranian sources, this is an estimate of course

on a scale of 1-10 for military effectiveness America have ranked Ukranian army as 12! They state that simply Ukranian forces have found ways to do things that USA would not even have thought of. UF have managed to obtain information about RF command posts, ammunitions depot and logistics which have just been staggering

In the ltai territory of the Russian federation hackers managed to play information of dead Russians and broken military equipment on cable TV

The bust of Maxim Gorky was dismantled in Alexandria, Kirovograd region as Ukraine continue to replace Russian influences with their own Ukranian heroes

 

[moathibby]

URGENT FINANCIAL APPEAL TO AID THE UKRAINIAN MINEWORKERS RESISTANCE

Since the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, the mining communities of Donbas have faced relentless attack and bombardment. In response mine workers through their trade unions and labour…

ukrainesolidaritycampaign.org

 

[Davy]

There are some days a vast amount of information, making it difficult to keep up and report everything. Other days the news comes in slow and you would be forgiven for forgetting there is a war on. Some things have not changed though

For example on the 19th of August alone, Russia shelled 84 Ukranian cities/settlements. That their missiles are not particularly accurate caused a lot of residential and commercial damage, something the Russians are quite happy to inflict as they continue to try and destroy the infrastructure of Ukraine with seemingly little or no real plan for what they will do with any gains.

Encouragingly though,. this was still below the average of 100 setlements daily hit and could be due to the amount of ammunition depots, control centres and troop concentrations being hit by HMARRS

27 ships or more have now left Ukraine loaded with grain supplies with a total of 670k tons

Russian tourists have been feeling Crimea as Ukranian attacks land on military targets around them

Reports that USA would go to war with Russia for the following reasons..

1. If the Ukranian army begins to collapse and Russia appear to be achieving victory

2. If the war does not end within a year

3. The US may send ground troops to assist Ukraine

4. Ths US decide to change the situation by starting to participate in hostilities

5.Deliberate escalation due to unexpected developments of events which unfold in an upward spiral.

This fortunately is not threats from Washington but predictions from a professor of political science at the University of Chicago.

In Crimea the local TV station was hacked and videos will bne shown of Zelensky;s appeals

Portugal does not support the ban on issuing visas for Russian citizens whilst the Czech rep absolutely do

The daughter of a Russian ideaologist was killed in an attack on her car Daria Dugina died instantly as the attack, believed to have been targeting her Father who had switched to another car was the daughter of Alexander Dugin. Daria was sanctioned by UK but her Father has not been.

 

[Ryan69]

Must be one hell of a war.

Football season has started today.

 

[Davy]

Looks like the push on Kherson has ramped up tonight as UF take a few villages on the outskirts and hit more ammo dumps, control HQs and barracks. Bridges and barges being hit as well. Expect a lot of resistance fighters to cause problems from inside the region. RF moving supplies through Crimea but it is not so easy to move equipment as it was a few weeks ago.

In Nova Kakhovka which is in Kherson region 4 ammo depots and a command post were also destroyed. Meanwhile RF continue to take losses and retreat in areas of the East where they have been trying to make ground for weeks with little success.

Lithuania have completed a 500km barbed wire fence with Belarus.

Russia, Belarus, India and China will take part in exercises in the East of Russia. This is a routine exercise and USA see little significance in it. If anything I find it unusual to see China and India co-operating in anything.

 

[Davy]

Today's news

Oleksiy Arestovych, a senior adviser to President Zelensky, claimed that Ukraine's army had broken though Russian defences in several sectors of the frontline near the city of Kherson.

Now, local residents claim that Russian soldiers are surrendering en masse and fleeing from the battlefield.

Social media Katerina posted on her Twitter account: "I talked with a friend from Kherson.

"He wrote that the Russian military are surrendering en masse.

"The rest are fleeing from Kherson and the region, everyone wants to live.

"The mood is decadent, no one wants to die for Putin."


And in Belgorod, Russia

A foreign policy expert, based in Ukraine's capital city Kyiv, shared a video that appeared to show hundreds of people - some with suitcases - trying to leave the city.

He wrote: "Russians are fleeing Belgorod as explosions rock the city and air defence activity lights up the sky..."

A video from the scene was also shared by a Ukrainian-born former race car driver.

Writing on Twitter, Igor Sushko said: "Belgorod is located 25 miles from the border with #Ukraine.

Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping are sending an ominous threat to the West as they prepare to amass 50,000 soldiers within 48 hours.

Russia is launching sweeping military drills with China to demonstrate increasingly close defence ties amid the horrific ongoing war in Ukraine.


Other news. Taiwan shot down a Chinese drone after it got too close to their Island

 

[jetsam1]

Chairman of LUKOIL taken a "tumble" from a hospital balcony. LUKOIL openly criticised the war recently.

Pure coincidence.

 

[Davy]

Chairman of LUKOIL taken a "tumble" from a hospital balcony. LUKOIL openly criticised the war recently.

Pure coincidence.

Probably slipped on spilled oil

 

[Davy]

Latest updates, this guy explains it well

 

[RanelaghHibs]

Looks like an almost total collapse of the Russian line in Kharkov, Ukrainian troops have reached the outskirts of Izyum and reports are the Russian troops are leaving without putting up a fight. Reports also state that settlements in Lugansk are already evacuating civilians. Russia is sending in reinforcements but it's too little too late and whatever and whoever arrives is quickly outnumbered by Ukrainian forces.

I follow pro-Russian accounts on Twitter, their reporting of course is more favourable to Russia but they tend to criticise the Russian approach when required and don't hide from the losses.

It looks like the Russian general in Kharkov was taken completely by surprise, they didn't suspect anything on this scale. Also it's a general with very little experience which is an appointment that has been criticized.

Many also criticise the number of Russian troops in Ukraine, 170k is no where near what is required especially when fighting on three fronts.

The Russian approach so far has been one of attrition, the belief that Ukraine would run out of manpower or weaponry at one point. This of course hasn't happened (manpower and weaponry seems to have gone into overdrive)

One interesting point is that they won't find the same level of support from Russian speaking communities if they do manage to return, abandoning Russian speakers to Ukrainian troops isn't a good look...

Essentially, most Russian accounts are taken completely by surprise by this Ukrainian offensive and have no idea what Putin and the Kremlin are doing at this point.

 

[Davy]

As UF move deep into previously occupied areas and grab the key city of Izium, Russians appear desperate and are launching ,more missile attacks in an attempt to inflict as much damage as they can on residential areas. 11 cruise missiles were fired with 7 of them at least being in the Dnipropetrovesk area. 9 of the 11 were all shot down. A thermal nuclear plant in Kharkiv was hit in an attempt to black out the area. This obviously also could have caused a disaster should radiation leak.
There was also an attack on UIF positions with incendiary shells which can reach temperatures of 2000 degrees centigrade.
You may have seen several tanks being abandoned in the haste of Russia troops to leave and the farming tractor brigade is once again moving these tanks into the hands of Ukranian forces.

The reason for the retreat is so not to become trapped and surrounded by UF troops like what happened in reverse in Mariupol. The big worry now is whether the Russians will use increasingly larger missiles as they see Ukraine disappear from their grasp.

Whatever happens it is going to be decades at the very least before there can be any trust between Ukraine and Russia and I would expect pro-Russian Ukranians to face expulsion or retribution as tolerance to Russia is almost at zero and as more atrocities will be revealed daily.

I do think as UF move forward that more troops will be moved towards Kherson and that area will be liberated. I am not quite sure how Crimea will be though as existing bridges are pretty much destroyed and would make movement of Ukranian forces quite difficult. Perhaps it will be that UF continue to just attack positions in Crimea making life very uncomfortable for Russian troops there and not a picnic for residents either.

I do think UF have showed considerable restraint in not targeting larger areas inside Russia. Perhaps this is because of deals with America for arms that include no attacking mainland Russia, or perhaps they are worried about mass retaliation on their own Western cities. There was though a report tonight that power was out in the Russian Belgorod city.

Few people could see such a counter attack when witnessing the arrival of Russian troops into Ukraine 7 months ago. I have believed in a Ukranian victory for the majority of the period but sadly many lives have been destroyed on both sides due to one man's insatiable desire to rebuild an empire. Sadly more lives will be lost. The fate of Russian prisoners is more likely to be positive than many Ukranian prisoners. It does seem inevitable that even if RF are pushed out Ukraine, should they still send missiles into Ukraine that they will find UF have no choice but to make targets further into Russia, I suspect though time may be up for Putin in that respect.

 

[Bofahibee]

Heard tonight that there have been mass surrenders of Russian troops in Kherson. If true it would seem that the invasion is crumbling

 

[Davy]

Heard tonight that there have been mass surrenders of Russian troops in Kherson. If true it would seem that the invasion is crumbling

Ukraine saying in the past 6 days they have destroyed or captured the following

2,850 troops
86 tanks
158 combat vehicles
106 artillery systems
159 cars
46 units of other equipment
SU-34 fighter/bomber (could be the one shown online crashing after take off), $36m
zoopark-1m counter-battery radar system ($25m)
over 30 ammo/fuel depots or command posts

value at least $670m

Ukraine also captured 4 Msta-S self propelled howitzers and a communication truck with full comm complex inside...well more abandoned than captured


Meanwhile Azerbajan and Armenia appear to have launched large scale provacations and rocket attacks on their border

 

[Davy]

Interesting interview with an ex-Russian Oligarch who pretty much backs up everything Zelensky has been saying for months..the inrterview was from April

 

[Davy]

This will probably appeal to Big G more, and show I also look at opposite views.

 

[Davy]

Everything is fine says Mad Vlad. News coming out of Ukraine say the advance has actually went way much further that detailed and more will be announced tomorrow.
Also, Georgia supposed to be getting offered a vote to open another front against Russia by the chairman of the Georgian Dream party Giorgia Kobakhidze according to Ukranian news channel

 

[bigmanandy]

Putin mobilising reservists. Things about to get really grim for Ukraine again.

 

[Purple & Green]

Putin mobilising reservists. Things about to get really grim for Ukraine again.

Reservists sounds to me like the kind of people who join up for the territorial army for a carry on and some handy cash.

Not really the kind of people you want to put into an actual war.

 

[RanelaghHibs]

Referendums to go ahead over the weekend in four Ukrainian regions for integration into the Russian Federation (Donbass regions, Kherson, and zaporozhye).

The mobilisation will only call up reservists who have already served and have the necessary military expertise.

Although not covered in Putin's speech the Russian government has now expanded the recruitment of foreign fighters into their army, so it will be interesting to see if we'll see the likes of Syrian, Iranian, Venezuelan or North Korean troops showing up.

Recently Russia has started to use "kamikaze drones" from Iran which are causing significant damage due to the difficulty in defending against them.

It will be interesting how they use these troops, I assume they will have learned from the disastrous gung ho approach of March.

Also what will be interesting to see is if the integration of the four regions into Russia (accepted by Russia and a few radio rental states of course..) will change their approach to defending / attacking them.

 

[Westside Green]

Reservists sounds to me like the kind of people who join up for the territorial army for a carry on and some handy cash.

Not really the kind of people you want to put into an actual war.

They're doomed

 

[Doc Shrink]

They're doomed

Cannon fodder.
The danger now is the staged referendums. Of course the results will favour Russia and Putin may well threaten a nuclear response should these new parts of the motherland be attacked.
Sadly he is batshit crazy enough to do so, and some of his chums seem even more keen on destroying the planet than he is.
Sad times.