TRUMP IS A See you next Tuesday

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Archie said:
75m people voted Democrat in the last election.

I'm just not sure that someone imposed after a military intervention by a foreign power will be that popular. Especially as they will have to implement US approved measures. Most likely outcome - chaos.
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Rubbish Archie, look how well Libya, Iraq & Afghanistan turned out.
 
Hattie said:
Nobody can tell me that this is about anything other than getting a deal done for oil for the US.
TRUMP doesnt do this for democracy 🥹
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This article from mid December says it all @Hattie

communist.red

Pirates of the Caribbean: US seizes tanker, steals Venezuelan oil | The Communist

Last week the USA stole Venezuelan oil, reportedly worth up to 95 million dollars. This naked act of theft is nothing short of brazen imperialist bullying. It is a major escalation in Trump's push for regime change in Venezuela, which it is our revolutionary duty to oppose.
communist.red communist.red

BIG G
 
Oil. Oil. Oil. Oil.

If it becomes US owned then that is a big slap for OPEC and a bit of a problem for Saudi Arabia etc....... However, I am sure a few more airliners and a couple of careful "investments" and it can all be lovely again.
 
Archie said:
As it happens I don't think Trump is driving this. He's going to be in lame duck territory soon. But the people around him are positioning themselves for post Trump politics. They have an 11 month window before the midterms and they will use it.

On the sinking of boats, you would think if they wanted to stop the drug traffickers they would interrogate survivors for intel. But no, the first survivors were repatriated to their home country. The second ones were executed. What does that tell you?
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The republicans know they they are getting skelped in the midterms and loads of prominent figures are resigning or standing down. Great similarities to the torys post Boris. I'm sure it will all come out in the wash but suspect these are acts of those desperate to cling to power. They have 11 months left till they are neutered so God knows what they will come up with next. And the world screams if Russia did something like this but stand by as he does this. A crazy world we live in where the usa thinks it can run the world but only do it when it suits them
 
25% of the Venezuelan population fled the country under Chavez / Maduro. If they.reutn in large number that's going to be somewhat chaotic.
 
This is all about access to the vast oil and mineral reserves in Venezuela...nothing else.
Unbelievably, Venezuela has as much if not more oil than Saudi Arabia.
The USA can't get enough oil. The whole continent, and it is a continent rather than a country, runs on it.
As has been said the Republicans are heading for big defeats in the mid terms in November, so this is a convenient deflection.
 
Hattie said:
apple.news

Captured Maduro lands in New York — The Telegraph

Nicolás Maduro landed in the United States on Saturday night after being captured by American special forces in a dramatic early-morning raid on his Caracas compound.
apple.news apple.news

And folk think Trump done it for Democratic reasons….
Who would’ve thought 🙈
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Me.

I'm a great believer that politicians act for the good of mankind and not to serve themselves and gets wads of cash.

My belief in politics and politicians is still there though.

🙄
 
egb_hibs said:
If Maduro really has been deposed with minimal bloodshed it's potentially a great day for Venezuelans: assuming they can avoid the all too often after-party of western regime change.
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way to early to call amigo - no great man of Maduro (corruption/economic mismanagement etc) but I'd be extremely wary of calling this all good right now as well as the wider implications this might precipitate
 
Young porty said:
The republicans know they they are getting skelped in the midterms and loads of prominent figures are resigning or standing down. Great similarities to the torys post Boris. I'm sure it will all come out in the wash but suspect these are acts of those desperate to cling to power. They have 11 months left till they are neutered so God knows what they will come up with next. And the world screams if Russia did something like this but stand by as he does this. A crazy world we live in where the usa thinks it can run the world but only do it when it suits them
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Tbh the world hasn't said much about Russia before Ukraine. Chechnya was ground to dust without much fucks given.

This is the way of the world though. Stability such as it was was only ever guaranteed by the Yanks. They gave their position away and now we are back to the great powers juking it out. Pundits i heard earlier seem to believe that most of all this is about the US signalling to China and Russia that they are back in the ring.

As I said here back im 2017;

"[The likes of China] have got used to the US being 'softer' which is the dangerous result of the Obama years...now the principle will be put to the test before it is reestablished. This will be a very dangerous period and is the problem with the ever so reasonable but somewhat unworldly positions taken by the Obama camp."

30 yeads of hubris have put the US on the back foot and Europe in a very perilous position indeed. We better get our shit together.
 
gun ainm said:
way to early to call amigo - no great man of Maduro (corruption/economic mismanagement etc) but I'd be extremely wary of calling this all good right now as well as the wider implications this might precipitate
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A civil war may be imminent. IF the military kick off it could well be very messy.

But from what I've seen your actual folk who populate the nation are happy.

Time will tell though.
 
Dub said:
Nutjobs on Twitter banging on about Trump coming here to "save us from Starmer."
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There really is an unhinged element in the UK right at the minute. Laurence Fox going on about he would rather fight for Putin or Allison Pearson calling for a military coup. I think it's partly apeing US politics, but also everything is so hyperbolic these days.
 
Archie said:
There really is an unhinged element in the UK right at the minute. Laurence Fox going on about he would rather fight for Putin or Allison Pearson calling for a military coup. I think it's partly apeing US politics, but also everything is so hyperbolic these days.
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And also saying things to get a reaction. Which they usually do.
 
gun ainm said:
way to early to call amigo - no great man of Maduro (corruption/economic mismanagement etc) but I'd be extremely wary of calling this all good right now as well as the wider implications this might precipitate
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Agreed, thats what the second part of the sentence was getting at!
 
Archie said:
Is that it though? Are you saying they don't really mean it? I get they're just provocateur jesters, but this stuff isn't trivial.
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Nowt trivial Archie. Something always means something to someone.

Some thrive on getting a reaction.

Do politicians 'mean it' when they waffle the party line?

Its a game to a lot of them.
 
Archie said:
There really is an unhinged element in the UK right at the minute. Laurence Fox going on about he would rather fight for Putin or Allison Pearson calling for a military coup. I think it's partly apeing US politics, but also everything is so hyperbolic these days.
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Speaking personally I'm rather more concerned at full on sectarian parties emerging as the latest by product of the lunatic politics of division entertained by all arms of the establishment for decades. The ludicrous Laurence Fox is of course another such by product.

We are going to end up far worse than the US I fear, and even now the mentalists that have driven us here are not for changing: if anything doubling down. Our problems are far far worse: economic, demographic, cultural, ability to defend ourself, ability to innovate or generate growth....

Democracies may start to fail over the next decade.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
A civil war may be imminent. IF the military kick off it could well be very messy.

But from what I've seen your actual folk who populate the nation are happy.

Time will tell though.
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there will be a lot of people happy - as above Maduro is corrupt authoritarian who has mismanaged Venezuela's economy massively. Thats before you get to the endemic violence in the country, plenty people will just be happy because they think it might mean an end to the sanctions. No tears from me that he has gone - but i think the wise would hold off their celebrations - I agree with EGB that this is likely the first significant action that indicates the US abandonment of any pretence at a global world order and an assertion of their dominance over the entire Western hemisphere - we're seeing the US empire redrawn. What that means for people in the Americas its really hard to say but in principle the control of other countries by a neighbouring superpower is unlikely to benefit the general population, history tells us that too - remember all the celebrations in Tahrir Square after the fall of Saddam's regime? how's that looking now - there are dozens of other examples I could pick. I get its harder to work though a very flawed system of international law to achieve good outcomes on for example the drugs trade (and clearly this isn't about drugs really they just present the opportunity) but what today says to China/Taiwan & Russia/Ukraine (as examples) seems obvious - crack on XI/Vlad
 
Yes I can see there being lots of violence and innocents dying. Hard times ahead for the folk as well.

But it seems the folk couldn't get rid of Madura. He wasn't moving.

Regime change is illegal as far as I'm aware but I think it's also an empty premise.

And there is more trouble ahead.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Nowt trivial Archie. Something always means something to someone.

Some thrive on getting a reaction.

Do politicians 'mean it' when they waffle the party line?

Its a game to a lot of them.
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I suppose the difference is that Pearson et al are fighting for social media space. Trump isn't - he's meant to be a leader.

As for the party line, parties get elected on platforms. Imagine an SNP candidate got elected then said that they thought independence was a terrible idea. They wouldn't be following the party line but they got elected under false pretences. That's not right surely?
 
Archie said:
There really is an unhinged element in the UK right at the minute. Laurence Fox going on about he would rather fight for Putin or Allison Pearson calling for a military coup. I think it's partly apeing US politics, but also everything is so hyperbolic these days.
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Have a massive WIP round and put Fox on a fucking plane is a grand idea
 
A man who accused George Bush of invading Iraq for oil has just invaded a country for oil. It will be funny if the Venezuelan people vote for a left wing candidate in Trumps "fair and free" elections
 
Archie said:
I suppose the difference is that Pearson et al are fighting for social media space. Trump isn't - he's meant to be a leader.

As for the party line, parties get elected on platforms. Imagine an SNP candidate got elected then said that they thought independence was a terrible idea. They wouldn't be following the party line but they got elected under false pretences. That's not right surely?
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Well you could counter that by saying what platform were labour elected?
 
gun ainm said:
there will be a lot of people happy - as above Maduro is corrupt authoritarian who has mismanaged Venezuela's economy massively. Thats before you get to the endemic violence in the country, plenty people will just be happy because they think it might mean an end to the sanctions. No tears from me that he has gone - but i think the wise would hold off their celebrations - I agree with EGB that this is likely the first significant action that indicates the US abandonment of any pretence at a global world order and an assertion of their dominance over the entire Western hemisphere - we're seeing the US empire redrawn. What that means for people in the Americas its really hard to say but in principle the control of other countries by a neighbouring superpower is unlikely to benefit the general population, history tells us that too - remember all the celebrations in Tahrir Square after the fall of Saddam's regime? how's that looking now - there are dozens of other examples I could pick. I get its harder to work though a very flawed system of international law to achieve good outcomes on for example the drugs trade (and clearly this isn't about drugs really they just present the opportunity) but what today says to China/Taiwan & Russia/Ukraine (as examples) seems obvious - crack on XI/Vlad
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I dont think the last bit is that straightforward. I think its going to be partly true but it also says dont fuck with the US because we are back

Maduro was an ally of China and Russia (and Iran). The mercs may well prove content for them to have their own spheres but this is also a message not to mess America's i expect.

The brutal thing is, such is the calamity of the last 30 years, its probably the most pragmatic route to stability and relative peace.

China in particular are not going back in the bottle. Nor are India, and nor are Russia. And heaven help all of us if the Islamic world ever gets it shit together.

America simply cannot police the world anymore and it was the only one who ever did. Like the rest of the west - albeit not as badly - it is broke, and the people who historically do its fighting dont want to fight for a country that screwed and despised them.

So this is the pragmatic way now. A shame, but the pass was sold a long time ago.

Europe are in the tighest spot of all (other than the permanently fckd africa). America will cut us loose if we continue to replace ourselves and thus become a nuclear armed risk to them. They've been pretty clear on this.

We have major internal strife in the post, collapsing populations and long term economic stagnation stretching out ahead of us. If we dont wise up we will be left to Russia or Islam or whoever. Our entire history was constant threats from the east until we leapt ahead in technology. Thats where we are headed back to if we dont realise we are in 2026 not 1996
 
egb_hibs said:
I dont think the last bit is that straightforward. I think its going to be partly true but it also says dont fuck with the US because we are back

Maduro was an ally of China and Russia (and Iran). The mercs may well prove content for them to have their own spheres but this is also a message not to mess America's i expect.

The brutal thing is, such is the calamity of the last 30 years, its probably the most pragmatic route to stability and relative peace.

China in particular are not going back in the bottle. Nor are India, and nor are Russia. And heaven help all of us if the Islamic world ever gets it shit together.

America simply cannot police the world anymore and it was the only one who ever did. Like the rest of the west - albeit not as badly - it is broke, and the people who historically do its fighting dont want to fight for a country that screwed and despised them.

So this is the pragmatic way now. A shame, but the pass was sold a long time ago.

Europe are in the tighest spot of all (other than the permanently fckd africa). America will cut us loose if we continue to replace ourselves and thus become a nuclear armed risk to them. They've been pretty clear on this.

We have major internal strife in the post, collapsing populations and long term economic stagnation stretching out ahead of us. If we dont wise up we will be left to Russia or Islam or whoever. Our entire history was constant threats from the east until we leapt ahead in technology. Thats where we are headed back to if we dont realise we are in 2026 not 1996
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possibly but if its the latter Murica has to be in a position to ben Russia and China (plus others) to its will - its one thing doing that in the americas its entirely another thing 'in their back yard'. If the pretence of a rules based order is now over (and i think it was a good dream to have) and the gloves are now off god helps us really. I do think you're right that we in Europe need to get our shit together fast, fuck knows what that looks like in terms of political structures (policies are easier)

i'll be fascinated to see how the America First mob respond to this and how the debate within the MAGA coalition pans out
 
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gun ainm said:
possibly but if its the latter Murica has to be in a position to ben Russia and China (plus others) to its will - its one thing doing that in the americas its entirely another thing 'in their back yard'. If the pretence of a rules based order is now over (and i think it was a good dream to have) and the gloves are now off god helps us really. I do think you're right that we in Europe need to get our shit together fast, fuck knows what that looks like in terms of political structures (policies are easier)
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I'm not sure that's the idea. I suspect the idea is they all sit in their patch and leave each other alone. Whether that works out is another matter.
gun ainm said:
i'll be fascinated to see how the America First mob respond to this and how the debate within the MAGA coalition pans out
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Well quite. The far right were raging about this in advance so its only going to turn up the heat.
 
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