TRUMP IS A See you next Tuesday

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egb_hibs said:
Well yeah but the problem is that if everyone took that attitude Europe would get eaten one bite at a time. And by the time it was our turn, there’d be no one left to help us.
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Well then we are under threat and our military would be mobilised.
 
egb_hibs said:
Diversity studies slogans aren’t going to help us now, other than weaken our potential to stand up to the Putin’s of the world. Men are obviously more aggressive, but if women were in all positions of power fuck all would change.

In any case it’s moot. We are in the world we are in, and the golden bubble we grew up in has popped. Time to get real.
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We have never been un a golden bubble. People slaughter eachvother with one hand and swear oaths hey will never keep with the other. Fuck em. We deserve what we get. Glad I'm theoretically past conscription age.

On the brighter side, will probs all end up with a damp squib for all the macho lingo.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Well then we are under threat and our military would be mobilised.
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I mean this is all just to illustrate a point, but if the Nazis then, or the Russians now, were to pick off one European country at a time, we’d be facing the whole of Europe when our turn came up - we’d probably be last or close to it due to geography.

What is our mobilisation going to do then ?
 
Well that would mean the rest of the nations capitulated or enabled the take over.

Why would anyone who controlled Europe WANT us?

And yep using the Nazis as an example the fact is often forgotten that WE declared war on them.
 
HaarlemShuffler said:
We have never been un a golden bubble. People slaughter eachvother with one hand and swear oaths hey will never keep with the other. Fuck em. We deserve what we get. Glad I'm theoretically past conscription age.

On the brighter side, will probs all end up with a damp squib for all the macho lingo.
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We in Western Europe have lived in a golden bubble for sure. The world has more generally, in relative terms.

Take any prior 80 year slice in European history by comparison.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Well that would mean the rest of the nations capitulated or enabled the take over.
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Which is what would happen if no one was prepared to help their neighbours against war machines like Nazi germany, the USSR or todays Russia.
EH17 Jimmy said:
Why would anyone who controlled Europe WANT us?
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I don’t think for a moment Russia would actually want to occupy the UK. They’d be happy for us just to dance to their tune as the regional power.
EH17 Jimmy said:
And yep using the Nazis as an example the fact is often forgotten that WE declared war on them.
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Well there were reasons for that. And we would not have been left alone if we had not.

If Hitler hadn’t pished in Stalin’s chips or even if Mussolini hadn’t fucked up the timing of Barbarossa, they’d have got us in due course.
 
The Russians have absolutely no chance of invading the rest of Europe.

They do however have nuclear.

How many of the former soviet occupied nations would want to live under the Russian boot again?

They have become stuck in Ukraine although they have superior forces. Imagine them taking the ukraine then arriving at Poland's borders?

And having millions of hate filled Ukrainians behind the lines.
 
HaarlemShuffler said:
Nope, Wars everywhere, even in Europe
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I didn’t say there were no wars at all. It was however, a golden age of peace and prosperity relative to prior history. As you imply, you are now past conscription age and never faced the slightest danger of being conscripted.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
The Russians have absolutely no chance of invading the rest of Europe.

They do however have nuclear.

How many of the former soviet occupied nations would want to live under the Russian boot again?

They have become stuck in Ukraine although they have superior forces. Imagine them taking the ukraine then arriving at Poland's borders?

And having millions of hate filled Ukrainians behind the lines.
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They would have rolled over Ukraine without US support, and it’s the sternest challenge they’d face bar Poland.

They have no interest in invading all of Europe. I certainly wouldn’t put it passed them to envisage us as their satellites with them the regional power.
 
egb_hibs said:
I didn’t say there were no wars at all. It was however, a golden age of peace and prosperity relative to prior history. As you imply, you are now past conscription age and never faced the slightest danger of being conscripted.
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Well look at the Volksturm in WW2 and the Dads Army.

All us auld yins might get conscripted (more like constipated) and sent out to protect Scotlands first minister and their cabinet.
 
egb_hibs said:
I didn’t say there were no wars at all. It was however, a golden age of peace and prosperity relative to prior history. As you imply, you are now past conscription age and never faced the slightest danger of being conscripted.
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I know you didn't. I'm talking about the Bosnian war and also considering decades of 'the Troubles' and similar terrorist periods to be less than peaceful tho not war.

Your tenacity in never leaving posts unanswered is at best praiseworthy in perseverance but at worst very tedious and compulsive.
 
HaarlemShuffler said:
I know you didn't. I'm talking about the Bosnian war and also considering decades of 'the Troubles' and similar terrorist periods to be less than peaceful tho not war.

Your tenacity in never leaving posts unanswered is at best praiseworthy in perseverance but at worst very tedious and compulsive.
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With all due respect you’re the one nitpicking the point, and I’m just clarifying my original intent; we’ve never had it so good. And that’s done,
 
egb_hibs said:
With all due respect you’re the one nitpicking the point, and I’m just clarifying my original intent; we’ve never had it so good. And that’s done,
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I'm not, you just repeated the I was no longer of conscriptavle (?) age, I knew that already.
 
The US has been telling Europe to increase its defence spending for years and we haven't. We ought to be in a position to defend Ukraine but we are not so it isn't even an option.

We have two options IMO looking at the medium to long term. We either look the other way and let Russia do what it wants as we continue thinking we have some peace dividend as we have done since the early 90s. And hope and pray that Russia will not end up at our front door....

Or alternatively we ramp up dramatically our defence spending which means cuts elsewhere in government expenditure. So that we can properly defend ourselves.
 
Smurf said:
The US has been telling Europe to increase its defence spending for years and we haven't. We ought to be in a position to defend Ukraine but we are not so it isn't even an option.

We have two options IMO looking at the medium to long term. We either look the other way and let Russia do what it wants as we continue thinking we have some peace dividend as we have done since the early 90s. And hope and pray that Russia will not end up at our front door....

Or alternatively we ramp up dramatically our defence spending which means cuts elsewhere in government expenditure. So that we can properly defend ourselves.
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Yup. This is unlikely to be reversed by a future democrat. They may well not want to for starters, with a 36 trillion and counting debt. But even if they do genies don’t go back in bottles. Once the west gave China the keys to the kingdom, and once Obama and Biden let Russia go back into war mode, those things are not reversible (or extremely difficult to anyway). Anything Trump does now will be the same because any attempt to re-implement will be seen as an act of aggression by Russia.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Well that would mean the rest of the nations capitulated or enabled the take over.

Why would anyone who controlled Europe WANT us?

And yep using the Nazis as an example the fact is often forgotten that WE declared war on them.
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Because they invaded Poland.
 
I reckon Scotland will be OK in Trumps new world order.

Scotland is about the only country in Europe spending a decent amount on defence. :070::068::sm019:

4.something% and 5.something% of GDP over the last couple of years according to GERS :gigglle:
 
Well we handed half of Poland over with no complaint so may as well just give them the rest.

But surely if Poland's security meant that much we would have fought the Soviets and chased them out of Poland.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Well we handed half of Poland over with no complaint so may as well just give them the rest.

But surely if Poland's security meant that much we would have fought the Soviets and chased them out of Poland.
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Sure. After six years of total war let's start another one.
 
Well maybe lots of European citizens don't want to send troops to Ukraine mate.

We have rode on Americas coat tails into pointless wars since WW2.

Nae yanks to cover us this time. And I still cannot see Russia progressing any further in Ukraine.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Well maybe lots of European citizens don't want to send troops to Ukraine mate.

We have rode on Americas coat tails into pointless wars since WW2.

Nae yanks to cover us this time. And I still cannot see Russia progressing any further in Ukraine.
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That's quite the jump from 1945 to now. But it's our responsibility to make sure that we manage our security. The US won't help us .
 
Well we have been involved in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Maybe a lot of folk are all war disillusioned.

I've no problem with arming Ukrainian forces although where we are getting the military hardware from us a mystery.

But I don't want out youngsters over in Ukraine in any capacity. Especially when thousands of fighting aged Ukrainians have bolted and left their countrymen and women to do the fighting.
 
Here’s the phrase we should ALL be worried about

On Europe, Vance says the US will continue to have "important alliances", but the strength of the relationship depends on whether they take their "societies in the right direction".

I wonder what they mean by “societies in the right direction” 🤔
 
Beagle said:
Here’s the phrase we should ALL be worried about

On Europe, Vance says the US will continue to have "important alliances", but the strength of the relationship depends on whether they take their "societies in the right direction".

I wonder what they mean by “societies in the right direction” 🤔
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Restoring freedom of speech and democracy is what they’ve suggested so far, but yes there may be an additional ‘price’.
 
Trump and his team are absolutely letting it be known they've got good relationships with Putin and the Kremlin. They're also letting it be known they're confident of a deal to end the war in Ukraine. Whatever anyone thinks of Putin he's very difficult to reach agreement with. He's got Trump and his administration exactly where he wants them. It makes you wonder what further concessions he'll get from them. And at what point is it obvious to even the most ardent Trump supporter that Putin is pulling the strings. Furthermore if that was to become too apparent does Trump etc then go the other way? I think escalation (you feel that's what the UK is preparing for...) is more likely than peace.
 
Smurf said:
Trump and his team are absolutely letting it be known they've got good relationships with Putin and the Kremlin. They're also letting it be known they're confident of a deal to end the war in Ukraine. Whatever anyone thinks of Putin he's very difficult to reach agreement with. He's got Trump and his administration exactly where he wants them. It makes you wonder what further concessions he'll get from them. And at what point is it obvious to even the most ardent Trump supporter that Putin is pulling the strings. Furthermore if that was to become too apparent does Trump etc then go the other way? I think escalation (you feel that's what the UK is preparing for...) is more likely than peace.
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The UK and Europe are decades away from being able to face off against Russia without US support.

I don't think it will happen. I'm not sure the US public will come to see Trump as being in Putin's pocket either. They simply don't care and want out of Europe's latest mess.

I think what has changed is so profound it's taking a while for it to sink in. I don't think the democrats will reverse it either, as the left don't want the US to be world cop either- though tbf have been a bit different when it is white Ukranians benefitting. And in any case the US can't afford it and has less and less to bind it to Europe.

I think the Yanks just want a lid on it and don't much care about anything else. I don't think they'll care if Vlad goes after the Baltics in due course either.

FDR had an enormously hard job getting them into WW2 and that was back then when there was much more cultural binding; I think we perhaps overestimate how much Americans care about Europe nowadays.
 
The political public language of US Imperialisms representatives recently, is much clearer in the so called 'private' conversations in the incredibly lax leaked national security WhatsApp type transcript. The gathering of the 18 highest ranking political and military figures arguably, with justification the most powerful on the planet, austensibly to discuss the bombing of Houthis, also to take @egb_hibs point above, showed in stark terms Vance and military big wigs utter hatred and contempt for Europe and it's representatives, in their comments about these ladies and gentlemen.

BIG G
 
Forrest Gump on the news... 'Thats all I have to say about that'
 
egb_hibs said:
I don't think they'll care if Vlad goes after the Baltics in due course either.

FDR had an enormously hard job getting them into WW2 and that was back then when there was much more cultural binding; I think we perhaps overestimate how much Americans care about Europe nowadays.
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I'd not rule out anything with respect to the wishes of what Trump wants to do with Canada and Greenland.... And therefore I don't think Trump cares what Putin does unless it has implications for the U.S. For how long will the U.S. economy be dependent on what Taiwan manufactures? For me i think we are seeing the strong men of the world take whatever they agree on....
 
Greenmachine said:
I don't think Ukraine should agree to any ceasefire arrangement.
I know that's easy for me to say sitting here in Scotland...but any arrangement between Trump and Putin is not going to be for the benefit of Ukraine, you can be sure of that.
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Agreed and I'm not so sure they will but then very soon Putin takes it or installs new leadership that are pro Kremlin. The only alternative is the EU with the UK telling Putin taking Ukraine is a declaration of war? I thought the comments from the UK Government last week about our willingness to use nuclear against Russia were crazy....
 
Does the UK population share Starmers view regarding Ukraine?

How many families would want their bairns to go fighting for a government who are so inept?
 
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