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paigntonhibby said:
Just googled free child care in Edinburgh, those 2,3 and 4 year olds, currently eligible for free child care cost over 40 mill per annum. I would imagine if it was thrown open to everyone you could expect tae see that at least triple
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So 120 mill. Approximately 0.17% of the Scottish Governments budget (£68 bill) to get Edinburgh's kids looked after and allow the potential for another parent to contribute to the economy.

Expand that out to the whole of Scotland (about 10% of Scotland's kids live in Edinburgh so we'll x10) and you're looking at just over a billion or just over 1.4% of the budget.

Seems worth a punt considering some of the shite they do waste money on that has no economic upside.
 
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Two Headed Boy said:
So 120 mill. Approximately 0.17% of the Scottish Governments budget (£68 bill) to get Edinburgh's kids looked after the potential for another parent contributing to the economy.

Expand that out to the whole of Scotland (about 10% of Scotland's kids live in Edinburgh so we'll x10) and you're looking at just over a billion or just over 1.4% of the budget.

Seems worth a punt considering some of the shite they do waste money on that has no economic upside.
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But I would think that the work would need to pay enough for folk to live on and maybe have a couple of £'s left over.

If the jobs don't pay then why would anyone take them?

And if those who do take the option to work but earn crap wages they will need the state to make the wages up so they can live and pay bills.
 
Two Headed Boy said:
So 120 mill. Approximately 0.17% of the Scottish Governments budget (£68 bill) to get Edinburgh's kids looked after and allow the potential for another parent to contribute to the economy.

Expand that out to the whole of Scotland (about 10% of Scotland's kids live in Edinburgh so we'll x10) and you're looking at just over a billion or just over 1.4% of the budget.

Seems worth a punt considering some of the shite they do waste money on that has no economic upside.
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Cannae just keep ramping up the welfare budget.
So that would be at least a billion for kids.
If Edinburgh transport is 170 Mill how much would it take to replace all Scotland bus revenue
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
But I would think that the work would need to pay enough for folk to live on and maybe have a couple of £'s left over.

If the jobs don't pay then why would anyone take them?

And if those who do take the option to work but earn crap wages they will need the state to make the wages up so they can live and pay bills.
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Is that you campaigning for a higher minimum wage Jimmy? Hear hear
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
And I'd make the snouts in the trough mob work 7 days a week and with no subsidised food and drink.

And let them use bus passes to and from work as well.

So there.
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When you getting on the ballot? Got my vote :xyes:
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Ah KiG I chose my profession years ago when I decided to decorate hooses.

They chose to become snouters so fuck them reap what ye sow snouters.
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Thing is, if you imposed your restrictions on them, they would probably all instead become more unneeded members of the ranks of middle business management.

Then who runs the country?

Anarchy in SE Embra? 😀
 
I've no had any election rubbish through my door yet. This is when I miss no having a dug to chase the dafties out of the garden.
 
paigntonhibby said:
Cannae just keep ramping up the welfare budget.
So that would be at least a billion for kids.
If Edinburgh transport is 170 Mill how much would it take to replace all Scotland bus revenue
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Figure out a way to cost it with the existing welfare budget then.

If someone ran on clamping down on cheats and more means testing then reimbursing the money saved into policies like childcare that help working families they'd get my vote.
 
Two Headed Boy said:
Figure out a way to cost it with the existing welfare budget then.

If someone ran on clamping down on cheats and more means testing then reimbursing the money saved into policies like childcare that help working families they'd get my vote.
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We're talking about the greens here and there's no way they would cut or reduce anything in the welfare budget to cost this, they would just tag it on.
 
Keepitgreen said:
We need more Scots to have more bairns to grow up, work and pay more tax. Free childcare sounds spot on. Bigger picture here folks.
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Brings me back to my usual gripe , where are they gonna live once they come of age ? Might be an idea to get those already of age to get a job and start to pay their way
 
Forzahibs said:
Brings me back to my usual gripe , where are they gonna live once they come of age ? Might be an idea to get those already of age to get a job and start to pay their way
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My view is that why would anyone want to bring a child into this world when it’s looking increasingly likely that said child is heading for military conscription and/or vaporisation by a nuclear weapon?
Had I foreseen the current state of things 28 years ago, I’d have got a vasectomy.
 
Beagle said:
My view is that why would anyone want to bring a child into this world when it’s looking increasingly likely that said child is heading for military conscription and/or vaporisation by a nuclear weapon?
Had I foreseen the current state of things 28 years ago, I’d have got a vasectomy.
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Aye I'm with you there , it seems the human race just never learns and that never looks likely to change
 
Free childcare allows parents to work. Parents earn more money, ploughing more money into the local economy, pay more tax, claim less benefits.

OK that probably won't cover the full cost but it's probably not as daft as the nae sayers are making out. Particularly if we want families to have mair wains.
 
Jack said:
Free childcare allows parents to work. Parents earn more money, ploughing more money into the local economy, pay more tax, claim less benefits.

OK that probably won't cover the full cost but it's probably not as daft as the nae sayers are making out. Particularly if we want families to have mair wains.
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I think there's something in this. I'm not saying I entirely agree with the proposal, but it is worthy of debate. Something sadly missing from this election campaign.
 
Here's a real life example if anyone is interested. It's me.

I have a 2-year old, and her week is:

3 days in nursery
1 day with grandma
1 day with mum

The nursery costs £1147 a month. For only 3 days. The only help we get is the HMRC Childcare account which reduces it to about £1k a month.

The day my wife takes off work each week 'costs' us too, as its a day she could be earning money, and of course society-wise it means less productivity and less taxes paid. We're lucky with the grandma day, but she won't be able to keep it going much longer as both her and my daughter get older, so this bill will go up again soon.

Asking for better support for parents is not radical. Look at how its done elsewhere, the graph in the middle of this article is stark:

www.euronews.com

Which countries in Europe have the highest and lowest childcare costs?

In the UK families could spend a whopping 75% of their monthly income on childcare, which discourages women from going back to work.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

In 2022 the UK became the most expensive country for childcare across the developed world. One in every three parents who participated in the survey revealed that they were already relying on some form of debt to cover their childcare costs.

Amid an ongoing cost-of-living crisis that has already made basic necessities like food unaffordable in Britain, the high cost of childcare is exacerbating socio-economic inequalities and impacting women disproportionately, forcing them to reduce their number of hours or to leave the workforce altogether.

And an estimated 1.7 million women in the UK are working fewer hours than they would otherwise due to unaffordable childcare, according to the Centre for Progressive Policy.
 
Keepitgreen said:
Here's a real life example if anyone is interested. It's me.

I have a 2-year old, and her week is:

3 days in nursery
1 day with grandma
1 day with mum

The nursery costs £1147 a month. For only 3 days. The only help we get is the HMRC Childcare account which reduces it to about £1k a month.

The day my wife takes off work each week 'costs' us too, as its a day she could be earning money, and of course society-wise it means less productivity and less taxes paid. We're lucky with the grandma day, but she won't be able to keep it going much longer as both her and my daughter get older, so this bill will go up again soon.

Asking for better support for parents is not radical. Look at how its done elsewhere, the graph in the middle of this article is stark:

www.euronews.com

Which countries in Europe have the highest and lowest childcare costs?

In the UK families could spend a whopping 75% of their monthly income on childcare, which discourages women from going back to work.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

In 2022 the UK became the most expensive country for childcare across the developed world. One in every three parents who participated in the survey revealed that they were already relying on some form of debt to cover their childcare costs.

Amid an ongoing cost-of-living crisis that has already made basic necessities like food unaffordable in Britain, the high cost of childcare is exacerbating socio-economic inequalities and impacting women disproportionately, forcing them to reduce their number of hours or to leave the workforce altogether.

And an estimated 1.7 million women in the UK are working fewer hours than they would otherwise due to unaffordable childcare, according to the Centre for Progressive Policy.
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Remember those days mate. Our costs weren't as painful as yours mind you, as the missus only worked P/T. On the plus side less than 2 years until you get the 20 hours a week free childcare (unless that's changed).
 
Archie said:
Why not? Kids can't be responsible for their parents choices? I'd rather this than children go hungry. I'll await the 'won't someone thinks of the local Greggs'?
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Should we nationalise evening meals to ensure every child gets a proper evening meal? Should we nationalise bed time stories to ensure every child gets a proper introduction to reading? Children's teeth are horrendous in parts of the country. Should we nationalise evening brushing of teeth?

We need to get real.
 
Keepitgreen said:
Here's a real life example if anyone is interested. It's me.

I have a 2-year old, and her week is:

3 days in nursery
1 day with grandma
1 day with mum

The nursery costs £1147 a month. For only 3 days. The only help we get is the HMRC Childcare account which reduces it to about £1k a month.

The day my wife takes off work each week 'costs' us too, as its a day she could be earning money, and of course society-wise it means less productivity and less taxes paid. We're lucky with the grandma day, but she won't be able to keep it going much longer as both her and my daughter get older, so this bill will go up again soon.

Asking for better support for parents is not radical. Look at how its done elsewhere, the graph in the middle of this article is stark:

www.euronews.com

Which countries in Europe have the highest and lowest childcare costs?

In the UK families could spend a whopping 75% of their monthly income on childcare, which discourages women from going back to work.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

In 2022 the UK became the most expensive country for childcare across the developed world. One in every three parents who participated in the survey revealed that they were already relying on some form of debt to cover their childcare costs.

Amid an ongoing cost-of-living crisis that has already made basic necessities like food unaffordable in Britain, the high cost of childcare is exacerbating socio-economic inequalities and impacting women disproportionately, forcing them to reduce their number of hours or to leave the workforce altogether.

And an estimated 1.7 million women in the UK are working fewer hours than they would otherwise due to unaffordable childcare, according to the Centre for Progressive Policy.
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These costs are scary! As grandparents of a 2 yr old, we look after him three and a half days a week. It costs us close to £50 a week in fuel picking him up and returning him, then there’s the additional heating, washing, food etc. My daughter could get more hours work but we need a day off too! If she had to pay the childcare costs you mention, that would be half her wages gone. Her plan is to take the maximum free childcare when the bairn turns 3 yr old and - hopefully - increase her hours then. No doubt we’ll still have the cost of picking him up and dropping off at nursery as my daughter works 20 miles in the opposite direction from where we live. The set-up and costs are discouraging young folk from having more kids - it’s a vicious circle.

One local firm in Peterhead (a sizeable employer) provides a “free” crèche for employees’ children and I can’t help thinking this is the way forward though it wouldn’t be feasible for smaller employers unless resources were pooled.
 
Smurf said:
Should we nationalise evening meals to ensure every child gets a proper evening meal? Should we nationalise bed time stories to ensure every child gets a proper introduction to reading? Children's teeth are horrendous in parts of the country. Should we nationalise evening brushing of teeth?

We need to get real.
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I think we should work within existing frameworks. Schools are there and children have to attend so why not put the two together. There's a tension here. I get people don't like parents who don't care for their kids properly. But I can't for the life of me understand the vitriolic response to helping the kids. It's not their fault. And we have to do what we can break the entrenched cycles of deprivation. It's a simple cost effective measure.

Katriona O'Sullivan wrote an amazing book: 'Poor'. She was brought up by junkies and the key things she points out that saved her were teachers and basics like getting a meal at school. She had a baby at 15 and fell into addiction. But now she is a professor at Trinity College Dublin. She's really inspiring.

katrionaosullivan.co.uk

Home - Katriona O’Sullivan | Speaker & Author

Official website of Professor Katriona O’Sullivan – Irish psychologist & bestselling author of "Poor". Discover her work, events & latest insights.
katrionaosullivan.co.uk katrionaosullivan.co.uk
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
I mind a few years ago when the mantra was about grandparents helping out watching the bairns whist the ma's and dad's worked.

Sounded ok.

But now the grandparents are being encouraged to work until they drop so there has to be a solution somewhere.
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Not all grandparents can or want to do this
 
paigntonhibby said:
Polanski now calling for " free" school meals for all primary and secondary schoolkids
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How would people feel if similar policies were means tested?

Would folk be as against free childcare, school meals, bus passes etc... if they were available to households earning less than 2 average salaries for example (around the £70k per annum mark)?
 
Two Headed Boy said:
How would people feel if similar policies were means tested?

Would folk be as against free childcare, school meals, bus passes etc... if they were available to households earning less than 2 average salaries for example (around the £70k per annum mark)?
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I think it absolutely should be means-tested
 
Two Headed Boy said:
How would people feel if similar policies were means tested?

Would folk be as against free childcare, school meals, bus passes etc... if they were available to households earning less than 2 average salaries for example (around the £70k per annum mark)?
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It's an interesting point. There would be a lot of bureaucracy around it and you would get people who just miss out feeling aggrieved. Maybe more of an issue for childcare given the cost compared to meals?
 
Hibee Kev said:
Remember those days mate. Our costs weren't as painful as yours mind you, as the missus only worked P/T. On the plus side less than 2 years until you get the 20 hours a week free childcare (unless that's changed).
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Its a real tough trade-off, trying to work out if we are better off with my wife not working as many days and therefore saving the childcare costs, but getting less money through the door. We also know the value of her being able to spend more time with our daughter; can't put a price on that.

You're right that her turning 3 will help us; though its a weird one when you're not using a state nursery. We can't use a state nursery, cos they close down for all the school holidays i.e. 2 weeks at easter, 7 weeks in the summer, etc. No way we could get those amounts of time off work, so we have to pay a private nursery.

With those, the 30 hours a week the state will cover becomes only 22 due to them being open over said holidays. And its 10 hours a day they charge. The benefit therefore isn't all that great; and in my case we will lose the grandma day when she's 3 anyway so it almost cancels out as we'll need 4 days.

Like BTH says above, all this is massively off-putting to folks wanting to have kids. More than off-putting really; it can just make it impossible. Unless you choose a life on benefits.

On that point; it's confusing this, when the same folk who moan about folk on beneifts, then moan about getting decent childcare provision as well. You can't have it both ways man. Other countries understand and acknowledge this, and help folk out far, far better. Why can't we?
 
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