SNP Lose Glasgow East

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Smurf

Smurf

Private Member
Joined
May 15, 2003
Pathetic result for SNP previous By Election winner. Incredibly - or perhaps not - Labour on the receiving end of a swing towards them. Where are 'Scotland's Champions'?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
 
Best hopes for Salmond now is a Conservative majority in the long run and hope it actually does push up the want for independence in Scotland.
 
LunaCWsauzee said:
Best hopes for Salmond now is a Conservative majority in the long run and hope it actually does push up the want for independence in Scotland.
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Absolutely, and a very likely possibility.

Results like this show the entrenched nature of voting patterns; in Scotland, especially here in Glasgow, people will ultimately vote for Labour when there is a real perceived threat from Tory (thatcherite legacy amongst others). That's why the LD poll surges wont translate into real results. A similar tale I expect will unfold in England, but with the Tories being the beneficiaries.
 
LunaCWsauzee said:
Best hopes for Salmond now is a Conservative majority in the long run and hope it actually does push up the want for independence in Scotland.
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That's quite true in a perverse way. Why would a Conservative government care about a country where nobody supports them?
 
Labour has taken back Dunfermline and will hold on in Murphy's constituency. Pretty impressive night for Labour...... In Scotland!
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
 
Smurf said:
Labour has taken back Dunfermline and will hold on in Murphy's constituency. Pretty impressive night for Labour...... In Scotland!
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
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They've managed to increase their lead in many places in Scotland.

BBC reporting a 1% swing to Labour in Scotland so far. Tories not getting anywhere yet in Scotland.
 
LunaCWsauzee said:
They've managed to increase their lead in many places in Scotland.

BBC reporting a 1% swing to Labour in Scotland so far. Tories not getting anywhere yet in Scotland.
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Hold our collective breaths for the southern upland seats. Borders and Dumfriesshire is where they're most likely to gain. Hard to tell so far.

Just heard that Glasgow North, a Lib Dem target seat with only 3000 in it previously, is a Lab hold too.
 
Smurf said:
Pathetic result for SNP previous By Election winner. Incredibly - or perhaps not - Labour on the receiving end of a swing towards them. Where are 'Scotland's Champions'?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
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Tory Fear+1st past the post system. Not really a shock.
 
Smurf said:
Labour has taken back Dunfermline and will hold on in Murphy's constituency. Pretty impressive night for Labour...... In Scotland!
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
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We scots seldom miss an opportunity to rally around the feudal master. Looks like we've thwarted the rest of the UK again.
 
Although the SNP haven't made any gains depending on the way the hung parliament goes, it could actually turn out to be a good night for the SNP:surp@

With the Tories in power you'd be back to Scotland being ruled (obviously not completely) by a Westminster government that we didn't vote for. In the previous times this has happened it has seen a surge in nationalism (70's and 80's) although much of the rise at these times could partly be construed as a protest vote, there was still resentment towards westminster. The Tories in power may be what the SNP need for a final push towards an independent Scotland.
 
Smurf said:
Pathetic result for SNP previous By Election winner. Incredibly - or perhaps not - Labour on the receiving end of a swing towards them. Where are 'Scotland's Champions'?
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
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Too many people afraid of the 'big bad Tory'. Sadly when the Scottish Labour Party were scaring voters into voting for them they left out the part that they were never ever going to win in England and Wales.

As a Nat, I obviously felt that our interests would be better represented in Westminster with SNP MPs. Same old Labour though, play on the insecurities of a nation still scarred by Thatcher. Play down the ability of the SNP and for what? We have been hung out to dry IMO.


Cheers Labour!
 
Any losses by the SNP were down to people being swayed into "tactical" voting by Labour against the Conservatives in my opinion.

According to the stats on the beeb site...

In Scotland there was pretty much no change at all (0.1%) between lastnights results and those of 2005.

Meanwhile in England the Torries pulled it from Labour majority to hung in their favour.

Proof we are a seperate nation with different views.

Though as always the numbers show how much of a joke the voting system is:

Labour 42% 41 Seats
SNP 19.9% 6 Seats
Lib Dem 18.9% 11 Seats

The SNP get a higher percentage of the vote but nearly half the seats of the Lib Dems, Labour get 66% of the seats with only 40% of the votes.

Democracy in action.
:sad
 
Solid result for Labour in Scotland chasing the '20 seats' Nationalists out of the two bye election seats and not a kick in the arse off getting as many votes as the Nationalists,Tories and Lib Dems put together.

Big G
 
madhibee said:
Although the SNP haven't made any gains depending on the way the hung parliament goes, it could actually turn out to be a good night for the SNP:surp@

With the Tories in power you'd be back to Scotland being ruled (obviously not completely) by a Westminster government that we didn't vote for. In the previous times this has happened it has seen a surge in nationalism (70's and 80's) although much of the rise at these times could partly be construed as a protest vote, there was still resentment towards westminster. The Tories in power may be what the SNP need for a final push towards an independent Scotland.
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As opposed to Scottish Labour MPs voting for Foundation Hospitals and SATs in English constituencies? What's sauce for the goose.....
 
Kurt said:
As opposed to Scottish Labour MPs voting for Foundation Hospitals and SATs in English constituencies? What's sauce for the goose.....
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Clearly its not really right for both sides (should there be sides? Thought we are in a Union :burnout:). Though when push comes to shove Scottish MPs can be quite easily overturned by an English majority, same can't be said vice versa.
 
madhibee said:
Clearly its not really right for both sides (should there be sides? Thought we are in a Union :burnout:). Though when push comes to shove Scottish MPs can be quite easily overturned by an English majority, same can't be said vice versa.
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You'd better get breeding, guys. - you'll need 20 kids each.
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
Solid result for Labour in Scotland chasing the '20 seats' Nationalists out of the two bye election seats and not a kick in the arse off getting as many votes as the Nationalists,Tories and Lib Dems put together.

Big G
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Whilst voting for the union, well done indeed.
 
1875 said:
Whilst voting for the union, well done indeed.
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It clearly shows, if we look at it that way, that the SNP have still got a massive job to do to convince the majority of Scots that Seperation is the way forward Mark.

Big G
 
GORDONSMITH7 said:
It clearly shows, if we look at it that way, that the SNP have still got a massive job to do to convince the majority of Scots that Seperation is the way forward Mark.

Big G
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Sounds like you would accept being ruled by an English Tory government again whilst we can remove ourselves from this and take our own decisions. The election results clearly demonstarate that Scotland and England vote and think diferently. We fear the Tories, England has embraced them. We could stop the Tories at the border of an independent Scotland.
 
Well put Skye.

It just seems that, probably through media scaremongering, trying to prop up the failing "new labour" looks like the safer option to a lot of people.

I often think if someone were to set up an "old labour" party with all the original ideas rather than these tory copy cats they would do pretty well...assuming they got the media/corporate support.
 
I don't think many voters if any were voting on independence at this election. People voted Labour to keep the Tories out, always will at Westminster elections.

The SNP increased their share of the vote which is a good sign although it was disappointing that there wasn't any seat gains.

With Scottish Labour at Holyrood generally being a shower of incompetent arseholes I think it will be a different story at the elections next year.
 
Scotland yet again embraced the Union and rejected Independence. Time to accept that's the reality folks! It's also a nonsence and a blatant lie to say England is Tory. It is a fact to say that the UK is much more non Tory.
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
 
Typical SNP throughout this thread blaming everything and everyone but themselves for not doing well.
.
Maybe the Scots have been less than impressed since the SNP came to power in the Scottish Parliament and in Edinburgh as a result of their influence there.
.
Just a thought.
.
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
 
Worthwhile to point out at this juncture that Glasgow East was one of the few seats to show a swing from lab to snp since the last election 3.5% which was impressive in the context of an overall swing to labour nationwide.
 
Nex said:
Meanwhile in England the Torries pulled it from Labour majority to hung in their favour.

Proof we are a seperate nation with different views.
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In England the tories won 297 of 533 seats - a decent majority. It's the rest of the UK which caused them not to get an overall majority.

We're very different regions with very different thoughts.

I don't understand why the Scots vote with such desperation against the tories, but accept their rule - and it could be another 18 years coming up if Clegg and Brown make a mess of the next few months. I wouldn't bet against it. John Higgins, might though.
 
1875 said:
Nonsense.
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Oh c'mon M yer an honest guy! Facts are that very few of those eligible to vote voted SNP. The SNP benefited from the Scottish people wanting to kick Labour backside in Holyrood in 2007 but it was no progress for Independence. It's today as far of the horizon as it ever was. And IMHO the reason is that the SNP don't articulate a pro Independence arguement. They certainly didn't in this campaign? As an Independence movement i'd suggest that the SNP under Salmond has failed. As an alternative administration to Labour within the devolved set up he has succeeded.
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
 
LunaCWsauzee said:
People voted Labour to keep the Tories out, always will at Westminster elections.
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Voting Labour in Scotland does not stop us geting a Tory government when England votes Tory. Voting SNP and geting independence does.
 
Smurf said:
Scotland yet again embraced the Union and rejected Independence. Time to accept that's the reality folks! It's also a nonsence and a blatant lie to say England is Tory. It is a fact to say that the UK is much more non Tory.
(Posted fae ma mobile fone)
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Two points Smurf. We have not yet been asked to vote for independence. If you can get your buddies in the London Labour party to agree to a referendum the question could be put.

Secondly if you take Scotland out of the equation with 59 seats the Tories would have a working majority so yes England/UK ex Scotland has put the Tories in power.
 
SkyeHibs said:
Sounds like you would accept being ruled by an English Tory government again whilst we can remove ourselves from this and take our own decisions. The election results clearly demonstarate that Scotland and England vote and think diferently. We fear the Tories, England has embraced them. We could stop the Tories at the border of an independent Scotland.
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Sweeping generalisations IMHO.

Liverpool Echo - News - Echo Districts - Halewood Echo - Halewood news - Labour celebrates successful general election night in Merseyside

Share of the Tory vote here half to a third of % in Scotland.

Big G
 
Holyrood was always our gradulist route to self determination, that's why I used to trudge the streets in the early 90's at the "Scotland United" rallies.

When our parliament was re-established in 1999, an obvious focus for the SNP was always to build up it's strength and power. Since it's advent, we can see exactly what is needed to bring about independence, that is , obtain 63 seats for pro independence parties.

When we do that, we can then pass a white paper for a referendum, allowing the Scottish voters a choice. (I know the constitution is a Reserved matter, but convention would dictate that this would be allowed.)

We could never do anything like that through Westminster , where even 59 Scottish independence MP's would be "farting against thunder". Hence , the SNP now keeps it's "powder dry" for the Scottish elections. That's the only show in town for us, The UK election means fuck all.
 
for the sake of clarity, the North of England, (most of) Wales and (most of) London don't vote Tory either. It's not like you reach Coldstream and everybody starts playing croquet and shouting racist abuse
 
FTJT said:
for the sake of clarity, the North of England, (most of) Wales and (most of) London don't vote Tory either. It's not like you reach Coldstream and everybody starts playing croquet and shouting racist abuse
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You're right; the real breakdown is more complex. Broadly speaking, places mainly populated with net tax contributors vote tory, places with net tax beneficiaries, labour.

that said, regards your tongue in cheek comment, you don't get many non white people north of coldstream, and backwards bigotries of various sorts do rocket up as you cross the scottish border.
 
Stirlinghibee said:
We could never do anything like that through Westminster , where even 59 Scottish independence MP's would be "farting against thunder". Hence , the SNP now keeps it's "powder dry" for the Scottish elections. That's the only show in town for us, The UK election means fuck all.
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No we should campaign at every Westminster election to secure a mandate to negotiate for independence. The election of 30 SNP MPS is a mandate for independence.
 
SkyeHibs said:
No we should campaign at every Westminster election to secure a mandate to negotiate for independence. The election of 30 SNP MPS is a mandate for independence.
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sorry, but no it isn't. I support independence, but 37% of the Holyrood vote and 20% of the Westminster vote is nothing like a mandate. Enough to call for a binding referendum? Yes. But that's different to a mandate for independence.
 
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