Repeal of the OBFA.

It must now be the Scottish government’s responsibility to deny the SFA public money if it refuses to employ a policy that said public supports.

Nah bad president IMO scot govt needs to leave the governance of football to the SFA.

Also FIFA really don't like governments meddling with football associations.

FWIW i thought OBFA needs changing not repealing, repealing it is just another reason for the cops to do fk all while oldfirm fans spout sectarian pish.

OBFA might need changing - but policing definitely needs changing....repealing the act wont change policing.
 
There are some right fucking SNP roasters on Twitter the now. Cannae see past the end of their party's nose!

I am an SNP member, I was in favour in repealing the act, and hoping for something more suitable to replace it.

I am also totally in favour of the Strict Liability rules too, I would have fines and point deductions, defined by clear categories around sectarianism (green, orange and all the other hues), rascism, homophobia, trouble in stadiums and suchlike.

Problem is its like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.
 
M, I've voted SNP for the last 20 odd years and don't appreciate getting called a yoon as i don't agree with one of their policies. These folk are about as bad as a cult.

I agree with you, some real fandans on both sides nowadays. Everything has to be so polarised, them bad, us good shite.
 
Nah bad president IMO scot govt needs to leave the governance of football to the SFA.
I'd agree, except the Scottish government bankrolls the SFA.

If we're putting money in, we deserve a match day experience free from being up to our knees in fenian blood.
 
I'd agree, except the Scottish government bankrolls the SFA.

If we're putting money in, we deserve a match day experience free from being up to our knees in fenian blood.

Something the act done fuck all about. It worse now.
 
I lost track of the legal machinations that followed the Celtic eejit being successfully prosecuted for walking past Ibrox with a t-shirt emblazoned with some sort of witticism containing the word "Hun" when they lost in Manchester, but I'd be laughing for a week non-stop if every self-righteous and "right-thinking" poster who's used "Hun" on here or elsewhere got the two-o'clock-knock from 'ra polis.
I very much doubt too many of their friends would be defending them, in the improbable event of that coming to pass.
What Scotland has become as a country sickens me to the point that it genuinely dissuades me from attending Hibs games & only for the Ross Co. final have I tarried in Scotland for longer than necessary in recent years. I used to stay overnight and make a weekend of it as often as not.
Utterly staggers me that I'm looking forward to watching Bohs in the L.o.I. next month but find it hard to make the effort to attend a Hibs game these days.
 
Would you now? Not sure what point you're trying to make but seeing as the word Hun isn't sectarian, I'm struggling. And FYI, it's the 6 o'clock knock in Scotland. Must be different from where you're from.

Rangers lead campaign to ban the word 'hun' as it's a derogatory slur towards Protestants | The Independent

Since the OBFA came in the Orcs have campaigned for the word to be deemed sectarian. Saying it is an offensive name for a Protestant. I witnessed the Police make reference to the same outside Ibrox earlier in the season. A The Rangers fan joined one of the Hibs fans being kept back at the end before being escorted to the station. The Orc was on the other side of the cordon bantering with the Hibby over the score. Polis man says to stop it to the Hibs fan. Hibby tells him it's his pal. That he might be a hun but he's an orite hun. Polis man warns him he needs to stop use of that term or would be in breach of the act. He was deadly serious. Thankfully, the Hibs fans were in good fettle and it didn't escalate.

Even ra polis are unsure of what constitutes offensive because the game of whitabootery has climbed to new levels.
 
Yeah i know all that but it's not a sectarian word. You might get lifted but I'd like to see it stick. They'd then try and do you for breach of the peace. What they gonna do if you turn up with a Hun baseball cap and T-shirt which are on sale from your local Primark?

I was only trying to suggest why he was writing what he did. If you know all that then it wasn't needed. It wasn't clear from your post.
 
Would you now? Not sure what point you're trying to make but seeing as the word Hun isn't sectarian, I'm struggling. And FYI, it's the 6 o'clock knock in Scotland. Must be different from where you're from.

St Anne's possibly mis-informed post got me to thinking, many of us use the term Hun on here and elsewhere. I know I do, occasionally to excess, for me it is a good word to describe them.

However I know I have never used the term to describe anyone's faith, it never crosses my mind, rightly or wrongly? It is collective noun to describe followers of "The Rangers 2012/ Sevco and the old team called Rangers that previously went bust irrespective of the religion they have or none?

Should we also be worried about the terms sticky buns, cream buns, hunnery and currant buns too I wonder?
 
I lost track of the legal machinations that followed the Celtic eejit being successfully prosecuted for walking past Ibrox with a t-shirt emblazoned with some sort of witticism containing the word "Hun" when they lost in Manchester, but I'd be laughing for a week non-stop if every self-righteous and "right-thinking" poster who's used "Hun" on here or elsewhere got the two-o'clock-knock from 'ra polis.
I very much doubt too many of their friends would be defending them, in the improbable event of that coming to pass.
What Scotland has become as a country sickens me to the point that it genuinely dissuades me from attending Hibs games & only for the Ross Co. final have I tarried in Scotland for longer than necessary in recent years. I used to stay overnight and make a weekend of it as often as not.
Utterly staggers me that I'm looking forward to watching Bohs in the L.o.I. next month but find it hard to make the effort to attend a Hibs game these days.

Why would you be laughing at people being lifted for nothing? When a newspaper in England described their fans [who of course were rioting as always when they go on trips] as being like "Huns marauding over the border" it was in reference to Atilla and his chums and was in no way sectarian. Explain please why you would like to see people being arrested for using the word.

Why does people using the word hun move us on to "what Scotland has become" It has always been like this - The Huns swagger about thinking they are gods gift but whine like wee lassies when someone calls them a name.

If someone using a non sectarian word to describe these hun ****s is enough to make you stay away from Hibs games then words fail me.
 
First they came for the "Phobes" and I did not speak out, because I was not a "Phobe."
Then the came for the "Ists" and I did not speak out, because I was not an "Ist."
Then they came for the "Philes" and I did not speak out, because I was not a "Phile."
Then they came for me - & there was no-one left to speak for me.
:laff:

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Would you now? Not sure what point you're trying to make but seeing as the word Hun isn't sectarian, I'm struggling. And FYI, it's the 6 o'clock knock in Scotland. Must be different from where you're from.

Last time they came for me it was 2 a.m.
That was merely an alleged breach of a court order though.
They did twice come for me at 6:30 or so - allegedly terrorist related - but the first time I was staying in Embra to watch Hibs and the second time I'd gone to work.
That's the Met Police for you. Great sense of priorities. They phoned me on the alleged "terrorist" crap and asked me in to Belgravia police station for a chat.
 
Why would you be laughing at people being lifted for nothing? When a newspaper in England described their fans [who of course were rioting as always when they go on trips] as being like "Huns marauding over the border" it was in reference to Atilla and his chums and was in no way sectarian. Explain please why you would like to see people being arrested for using the word.

Why does people using the word hun move us on to "what Scotland has become" It has always been like this - The Huns swagger about thinking they are gods gift but whine like wee lassies when someone calls them a name.

If someone using a non sectarian word to describe these hun ****s is enough to make you stay away from Hibs games then words fail me.

I don't want people being lifted for saying nasty/offensive/heretical/blasphemous/seditious things at all. There should be a constitution that prevents governments introducing legislation that outlaws freedom of speech, because the views outlawed will always be those that undermine, subvert or call into question aspects of government ideology or dogma that the government cannot defend in rational terms - usually because the government doesn't actually believe it those aspects of its ideology; merely parroting the slogans & soundbites for what it believes to be short-term expediency.
I refer to Huns as "Huns" all the time... & I definitely wouldn't be allowed to post the term I generally use for Celtic on here.
I'll be at the first Europa League away game in July - NB: there will be a first Europa League away game in July; stop being so bloody defeatist - because it will not be in a country I have ideological difficulties in economically supporting.
"Hun" is fine by me. As are renditions of "The Famine Song", "The Sash", "Would You Go A Chicken Supper." Same goes for Ibrox disaster-related stuff and any Republican songs. (I'd imagine I can sing more of those than most posters on here... Unless Stokesy's dad's on here as well - those threads he's contributing to on the other site are the best thing I've ever read on it.) I object to people being pulled for singing this stuff, not to them singing it.
 
Can't say I'm into Ibrox disaster songs n that myself.
 
Hun is not sectarian. Never has been. Never will. No matter how much they try to make it so.

The Huns are the biggest saps in fitba, that sing no one likes us we don't care then proceed to bleat and cry about the word Hun. Fuckin embarrassing is what they are. I know a good few and it really gets under their skin. Hence me calling them it everytime in conversation or even within earshot. Crybabies. [emoji22]

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
 
I've almost been begging for some knuckledragging, orange, 'the rangers' supporting wanker to pull me up or report me for using the word Hun to describe them and try to say I'm using as a derogatory term for protestants. I was baptized a protestant in a protestant church, went to a non denominational (protestant) school. I'd love to see them make that stick. Fucking horrible bastards make me ashamed to be human never mind a member of a sect believing in a made up diety.
 
I don't want people being lifted for saying nasty/offensive/heretical/blasphemous/seditious things at all. There should be a constitution that prevents governments introducing legislation that outlaws freedom of speech, because the views outlawed will always be those that undermine, subvert or call into question aspects of government ideology or dogma that the government cannot defend in rational terms - usually because the government doesn't actually believe it those aspects of its ideology; merely parroting the slogans & soundbites for what it believes to be short-term expediency.
I refer to Huns as "Huns" all the time... & I definitely wouldn't be allowed to post the term I generally use for Celtic on here.
I'll be at the first Europa League away game in July - NB: there will be a first Europa League away game in July; stop being so bloody defeatist - because it will not be in a country I have ideological difficulties in economically supporting.
"Hun" is fine by me. As are renditions of "The Famine Song", "The Sash", "Would You Go A Chicken Supper." Same goes for Ibrox disaster-related stuff and any Republican songs. (I'd imagine I can sing more of those than most posters on here... Unless Stokesy's dad's on here as well - those threads he's contributing to on the other site are the best thing I've ever read on it.) I object to people being pulled for singing this stuff, not to them singing it.

How else am I supposed to interpret this then

"I'd be laughing for a week non-stop if every self-righteous and "right-thinking" poster who's used "Hun" on here or elsewhere got the two-o'clock-knock from 'ra polis"

Why would you be laughing at that? You seem intent on having a go at anyone who uses the non sectarian term Hun to describe the huns so what's your angle?
 
How else am I supposed to interpret this then

"I'd be laughing for a week non-stop if every self-righteous and "right-thinking" poster who's used "Hun" on here or elsewhere got the two-o'clock-knock from 'ra polis"

Why would you be laughing at that? You seem intent on having a go at anyone who uses the non sectarian term Hun to describe the huns so what's your angle?

To add to a Dubs question.....:

I’d quite like to know the term for the Smellies that’s been banned - unless of course it really is sectarian?
If it isn’t and it’s really offensive, spill - because I would probably use it!
 
Hun is not sectarian. Never has been. Never will. No matter how much they try to make it so.

The Huns are the biggest saps in fitba, that sing no one likes us we don't care then proceed to bleat and cry about the word Hun. $#@!in embarrassing is what they are. I know a good few and it really gets under their skin. Hence me calling them it everytime in conversation or even within earshot. Crybabies. [emoji22]

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

they had it good since their conception - they had the better jobs, the better wages all sewn up with funny handshakes - then globalisation happened then a nationalist scot govt for the last decade.

no one likes us we don't care : we don't care cause we had it sewn up,on the field, off the field , socially, politically - unionists would struggle to call themselves the oppressed....but times change, and those changes aren't good for billy, billy is no longer top of the tree , billy now feels oppressed, billy want you to hurt like billy hurts, so billy wants you in the tin pail for calling him a hun while he calls you a fenian on a saturday and marches in his sash throughout the summer.

what a time to be alive eh!

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To add to a Dubs question.....:

I’d quite like to know the term for the Smellies that’s been banned - unless of course it really is sectarian?
If it isn’t and it’s really offensive, spill - because I would probably use it!

nil by mouth could probably tell you.

i have little time for them for their insistence that sectarianism is a problem equally at all scottish clubs...

History of sectarianism


Offensive sectarian language is still used in Scotland on a daily basis, with abusive terms such as “Hun” and “Orange bastard” being used negatively against Protestants (or those perceived to be) and others such as “Fenian” and “Tim” used negatively against Catholics (or those perceived to be). This reinforces religious and racial stereotypes as well as fuelling the divisions and conflict between the denominations and people of no religious denomination. Children commonly use words without any knowledge of their meaning, but with an understanding that these words are a means by which to insult others.
 
See this is where it gets ridiculous. There is not one other team in football that's supporters are called Huns apart from The Rangers. Fans from Celtc, Hibs & Dundee United have all been called fenian or tim $#@!s by the manky mob.

Nil by Mouth are a bunch of arseholes
.

Yup. Seems like they were only conceived with the purpose of conflating sectarianism as an old firm-specific problem into one which affects Scottish Football as a whole :hmmm
 
And neither would most right minded fans be.
Bejaysus! A senior Bounce bod has used "right minded"... probably the most sure-fire indicator of arrogant, self-righteous idiocy of any word or phrase in the English language. Is this MiggsNet? Or Islington?There is no hope.

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....& this ought to be a Cowshed thread, no? Regardless of the word "football" in the title of the Act Anent Tokenism. Never going to be any resposes remotely linked to any aspect of football, are there?
 
Bejaysus! A senior Bounce bod has used "right minded"... probably the most sure-fire indicator of arrogant, self-righteous idiocy of any word or phrase in the English language. Is this MiggsNet? Or Islington?There is no hope.

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....& this ought to be a Cowshed thread, no? Regardless of the word "football" in the title of the Act Anent Tokenism. Never going to be any resposes remotely linked to any aspect of football, are there?

Miggsnet?

Islington?

Act Anent Tokenism?


You're going to have to clarify these terms for the hard of understanding like me.

Cheers.




Oh aye, and what is that shocking term for Smellies you referred to previously?
 
Bejaysus! A senior Bounce bod has used "right minded"... probably the most sure-fire indicator of arrogant, self-righteous idiocy of any word or phrase in the English language. Is this MiggsNet? Or Islington?

Happy to help. That was easier than I thought.
 
nil by mouth could probably tell you.

i have little time for them for their insistence that sectarianism is a problem equally at all scottish clubs...

History of sectarianism

I have been in attendance when they've delivered sessions to young people. They openly stated that the Edinburgh clubs were the same as the Glasgow ones. I challenged the young guy delivering it to back up his assertion. He mumbled stats from the number of charges under OBFA. I asked whether he'd been to a Hibs game. He squirmed. Continued with the mantra.

It was excruciating.
 
I don’t reconcile with the idea of supporting a football team based on religions reasons, so using words like Hun or Tim don’t fall within the scope of bigotry as they’ve nothing to do with a persons’ religious views.

Whether either term is offensive is another discussion.
 
I don’t reconcile with the idea of supporting a football team based on religions reasons, so using words like Hun or Tim don’t fall within the scope of bigotry as they’ve nothing to do with a persons’ religious views.

Whether either term is offensive is another discussion.

I use 'Hun' all the time, for both teams. Rangers and The Rangers.

I use 'Smellies' usually for the other mob.Because they are.


I don't consider either term to be in away bigoted or linked to any religion, but I would be disappointed if the Huns or the Smellies weren't offended.
 
I don't want people being lifted for saying nasty/offensive/heretical/blasphemous/seditious things at all.
Nor do I, in general, but football matches are meant to be family experiences that simply aren't appropriate for children who may end up subjected to sectarianism where there shouldn't be any. The OBFA is about to be repealed, which you'd presumably support, but Strict Liability punishes clubs rather than supporters.

So I'm not sure what your whinge is.

Hun is not sectarian.
Correct.

The term 'hun' is applied to the team, its antics on the pitch, and the blind eye that those officiating traditionally turn to it. Considering the term 'diet-hun' is often applied to Hearts by people on here, despite there being no links between Hearts and groups like the Orange Order (or the sectarian behavior in evidence at Ibrox), it's pretty safe ground to assume that the word isn't based in sectarianism.

Besides, the Huns were a set of Asian nomads that lived during the 5th century. Anyone arguing that the word is aggressive needs to go back and rewrite history.

Good luck.

Nil by Mouth are a bunch of arseholes.
Having done a very small amount of work for them, they're actually on something of a sticky wicket.

The problem is that if they were to openly declare that sectarianism is a problem peculiar to the central belt, particular to the west coast, and specific to two football stadiums, they risk alienating the very people they're trying to educate out of it. Like so many other topics, that causes sectarianism to end up conflated into a "Scottish" problem, when the overwhelming majority of Scotland's 5.4 million population have next to no direct experience of it whatsoever.

And if you were to ask every Scot who has had an experience of it, they'd probably tell you it had something to do with Rangers, 'Rangers', or a local chapter of the Orange Lodge. I'm separating the Ibrox team from the Orange Lodge in the interest of being systematic, but there's clearly a dramatic amount of crossover between the two organisations. For both, the defining characteristic is being a proud (and by "proud", I mean vocal) Protestant - or, to borrow Glaswegian vernacular for a moment, "a guid proddy".

What interests me is that most football supporters in Scotland are Protestant, regardless of club. This is because Scotland is, ultimately, a Protestant country. The difference between 'Rangers' and everyone else is purely in the fact that only 'Rangers' use Protestantism as an expression of club identity. There is often considered an issue with this, which is nicely articulated by rent-a-quote idiot, Tom Gallagher:

"I think that Rangers distinctiveness stems from its Protestant identity. If it lost that, it would be in danger of becoming just another of a number of teams competing for supporters".

In other words, 'Rangers' embrace the Protestant expression of identity because they want to make sure Protestants come and support them. What doesn't occur to the Scotland in Union zoomer is the negative effect that such an aggressive stance has on those who don't identify themselves with Orange loyalism... Or, put shortly, the majority of Protestants in Scotland.

But that's the type of attitude we're dealing with.

So-called academics arguing that sectarianism is justified if it puts loyalists through your turnstile.
 
Nor do I, in general, but football matches are meant to be family experiences that simply aren't appropriate for children who may end up subjected to sectarianism where there shouldn't be any. The OBFA is about to be repealed, which you'd presumably support, but Strict Liability punishes clubs rather than supporters.

So I'm not sure what your whinge is.


Correct.

The term 'hun' is applied to the team, its antics on the pitch, and the blind eye that those officiating traditionally turn to it. Considering the term 'diet-hun' is often applied to Hearts by people on here, despite there being no links between Hearts and groups like the Orange Order (or the sectarian behavior in evidence at Ibrox), it's pretty safe ground to assume that the word isn't based in sectarianism.

Besides, the Huns were a set of Asian nomads that lived during the 5th century. Anyone arguing that the word is aggressive needs to go back and rewrite history.

Good luck.


Having done a very small amount of work for them, they're actually on something of a sticky wicket.

The problem is that if they were to openly declare that sectarianism is a problem peculiar to the central belt, particular to the west coast, and specific to two football stadiums, they risk alienating the very people they're trying to educate out of it. Like so many other topics, that causes sectarianism to end up conflated into a "Scottish" problem, when the overwhelming majority of Scotland's 5.4 million population have next to no direct experience of it whatsoever.

And if you were to ask every Scot who has had an experience of it, they'd probably tell you it had something to do with Rangers, 'Rangers', or a local chapter of the Orange Lodge. I'm separating the Ibrox team from the Orange Lodge in the interest of being systematic, but there's clearly a dramatic amount of crossover between the two organisations. For both, the defining characteristic is being a proud (and by "proud", I mean vocal) Protestant - or, to borrow Glaswegian vernacular for a moment, "a guid proddy".

What interests me is that most football supporters in Scotland are Protestant, regardless of club. This is because Scotland is, ultimately, a Protestant country. The difference between 'Rangers' and everyone else is purely in the fact that only 'Rangers' use Protestantism as an expression of club identity. There is often considered an issue with this, which is nicely articulated by rent-a-quote idiot, Tom Gallagher:

"I think that Rangers distinctiveness stems from its Protestant identity. If it lost that, it would be in danger of becoming just another of a number of teams competing for supporters".

In other words, 'Rangers' embrace the Protestant expression of identity because they want to make sure Protestants come and support them. What doesn't occur to the Scotland in Union zoomer is the negative effect that such an aggressive stance has on those who don't identify themselves with Orange loyalism... Or, put shortly, the majority of Protestants in Scotland.

But that's the type of attitude we're dealing with.

So-called academics arguing that sectarianism is justified if it puts loyalists through your turnstile.

I brought this up in a chat with leeann dempster, i agreed with you that the "staunch" ones are where the problem lies and that rangers would do nothing as sectarianism sells for them, its bums on seats, 90minutes of allowed bigotry , she disagreed, she said the problem lay with faith schools.

nil by mouth only use the term "hun" as "bad" to engage with rangers, and that's why they say its a 42 club issue too....pathetic pandering IMO

With regards to OBFA the whole answer is policing, pulling folk out of crowds while singing songs, video them for 30 secs, then get them in the jail til monday, you wouldn't have to do that many times till the songs stopped.

they killed drinking on football buses - well in comparison to the first buses i went on the 90s - they can do the same with sectarian singing if they (the cops) choose to.
 
I brought this up in a chat with leeann dempster... she said the problem lay with faith schools.
That's interesting.

Of course, 'interesting' is just another way of saying 'wrong'. A study for the Scottish government found that denominational schools had no impact on sectarianism so, if that's her belief, it's worrying (to me) that it's at odds with the evidence. For reference:

Scotland's denominational schools 'do not cause sectarianism' - BBC News

If you're interested in reading about the current investigations, and can plough through a full thirty odd pages of it, this is the latest report tabled by Dr. Duncan Morrow who's been involved in the process for the last half-decade at least:

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0051/00515573.pdf

It's actually a very good read, but has some bits that will frustrate those who actually care about the issue - and I'm particularly talking about the approach of the Scottish football authorities. To save you reading the full report, I'll put in what the arbiters of our game think. Fair warning, of course, but you're not going to like this:

"At the meeting I attended with the SPFL and the Scottish FA, they indicated that they believed public perception of the problem of sectarianism at football was not the same as the reality. They were of the view that football is not responsible for what they see as a societal issue. However, in making this claim they also appear to be using the categorisation of the issue as ‟societal‟ as a way of distancing themselves from the need to take anything more than the most tokenistic action to address sectarianism. It needs to be clearly kept in mind that Scottish football is very much part of Scottish society and needs to take full responsibility for tackling the offensive and abusive behaviour that occurs within the commercial spaces (football stadia) that they own, operate and govern.

The SPFL and Scottish FA told me that they believe there have been no incidents of mass sectarian singing in Scottish football in the past year. They believe that Scottish football has come a long way since the "shame game‟ five years ago. They also expressed the view that sectarian singing is not a problem at Scottish games and, in fact, it is the perception of it that is the problem, with this perception being very different from the reality. They believe the media has an important role to play in fuelling the perception of sectarianism in Scottish football and they believe the use of language and terms like "battle‟ and "war‟ before big derby matches intensifies the feelings between sets of supporters.

Interestingly, when I raised the fact that a recent survey conducted by the international players‟ union FIFPro showed that 32% of Scottish football players felt they had been threatened by fans on match days and nearly a quarter of players in Scotland reported that they had experienced discrimination by fans on a matchday (23% against the global average of 5%), the SPFL and Scottish FA stated categorically that they did not recognise the findings".


There's practically no chance that the SFA will introduce Strict Liability, given that they're not willing to accept evidence that contradicts their view. Only significant movement by supporters will make them change their minds.
 
I wonder how many people who sign the songs about the being up to their knees or up the ‘RA are trusty sectarian? By that I mean those who cart a burning hatrated of which ever religion, as opposed to that sectarian through stupidly and becuase “it’s banter”.
 
I'd garner a guess at a high percentage of huns.
It's hard to say.

The evidence clearly suggests that the problem isn't with Protestantism or Catholicism in general, as most people who hold either denomination get along just fine. The problem arrives with the aggressive and militant organisations that have little to do with religious faith, and much more to do with the radicalisation of their members. Rangers and "Rangers" are, very obviously, totems around which this type of radicalisation gravitates, and it's not mutually inclusive with Protestantism. In fact, I'd say the bigger identity here is loyalism which erroneously sees militant Protestant imagery attached.

The link between loyalism and Protestantism is, of course, wholly a Northern Irish issue because Catholics traditionally had (in some cases violently strong) republican leanings. In Scotland, however, this is a complete misnomer - the independence push of civic Scotland has absolutely nothing to do with religious beliefs, whatsoever. Of course, loyalists saw their day in the sun at George Square where they were delighted to finally see their views vindicated, at least as far as they understood it.

All of this is food for thought but, sadly, adds precious little clarity to the issue.
 
Nor do I, in general, but football matches are meant to be family experiences that simply aren't appropriate for children who may end up subjected to sectarianism where there shouldn't be any. The OBFA is about to be repealed, which you'd presumably support, but Strict Liability punishes clubs rather than supporters.

So I'm not sure what your whinge is.


Correct.

The term 'hun' is applied to the team, its antics on the pitch, and the blind eye that those officiating traditionally turn to it. Considering the term 'diet-hun' is often applied to Hearts by people on here, despite there being no links between Hearts and groups like the Orange Order (or the sectarian behavior in evidence at Ibrox), it's pretty safe ground to assume that the word isn't based in sectarianism.

Besides, the Huns were a set of Asian nomads that lived during the 5th century. Anyone arguing that the word is aggressive needs to go back and rewrite history.

Good luck.


Having done a very small amount of work for them, they're actually on something of a sticky wicket.

The problem is that if they were to openly declare that sectarianism is a problem peculiar to the central belt, particular to the west coast, and specific to two football stadiums, they risk alienating the very people they're trying to educate out of it. Like so many other topics, that causes sectarianism to end up conflated into a "Scottish" problem, when the overwhelming majority of Scotland's 5.4 million population have next to no direct experience of it whatsoever.

And if you were to ask every Scot who has had an experience of it, they'd probably tell you it had something to do with Rangers, 'Rangers', or a local chapter of the Orange Lodge. I'm separating the Ibrox team from the Orange Lodge in the interest of being systematic, but there's clearly a dramatic amount of crossover between the two organisations. For both, the defining characteristic is being a proud (and by "proud", I mean vocal) Protestant - or, to borrow Glaswegian vernacular for a moment, "a guid proddy".

What interests me is that most football supporters in Scotland are Protestant, regardless of club. This is because Scotland is, ultimately, a Protestant country. The difference between 'Rangers' and everyone else is purely in the fact that only 'Rangers' use Protestantism as an expression of club identity. There is often considered an issue with this, which is nicely articulated by rent-a-quote idiot, Tom Gallagher:

"I think that Rangers distinctiveness stems from its Protestant identity. If it lost that, it would be in danger of becoming just another of a number of teams competing for supporters".

In other words, 'Rangers' embrace the Protestant expression of identity because they want to make sure Protestants come and support them. What doesn't occur to the Scotland in Union zoomer is the negative effect that such an aggressive stance has on those who don't identify themselves with Orange loyalism... Or, put shortly, the majority of Protestants in Scotland.

But that's the type of attitude we're dealing with.

So-called academics arguing that sectarianism is justified if it puts loyalists through your turnstile.

No it isn't. It refers to the supporters who, as I noted earlier in the thread, caused their usual bother at an away match in england and a newspaper wrote that they poured over the border like marauding huns [IE Atilla's mob who were nomads indeed but not particularly benign].
 
No it isn't. It refers to the supporters who, as I noted earlier in the thread, caused their usual bother at an away match in england and a newspaper wrote that they came over the border like marauding huns [IE Atilla's mob who were nomads indeed but not particularly benign].
Thanks, Dub, I didn't know that.

You don't happen to have a link for the quote, do you? I'm interested if the article still exists today.

The only references I have are hearsay, but this sums it up:

"In 1961, Rangers travelled to play Wolverhampton Wanderers in the European Cup Winners Cup. True to form, their supporters ran riot through the town destroying everything in their path. In an article appearing in the English press shortly afterwards, they were described as 'coming across the border like marauding huns'. Thus, a humorous, accurate and non-sectarian term of endearment was created for them".

The problem is that other sources cite different events. The other common one seems to be '72 in the Cup Winners Cup final, when Rangers fans invaded the pitch after winning 3-2 against Dynamo Moscow.
 
Thanks, Dub, I didn't know that.

You don't happen to have a link for the quote, do you? I'm interested if the article still exists today.

The only references I have are hearsay, but this sums it up:

"In 1961, Rangers travelled to play Wolverhampton Wanderers in the European Cup Winners Cup. True to form, their supporters ran riot through the town destroying everything in their path. In an article appearing in the English press shortly afterwards, they were described as 'coming across the border like marauding huns'. Thus, a humorous, accurate and non-sectarian term of endearment was created for them".

The problem is that other sources cite different events. The other common one seems to be '72 in the Cup Winners Cup final, when Rangers fans invaded the pitch after winning 3-2 against Dynamo Moscow.

I have seen the press release before and I was just trying to find it but the essence of your quote is about word for word what was printed. It was a Wolverhampton paper in 1961 so that gives a start to searchng for it. I'll keep trying.
 
I brought this up in a chat with leeann dempster, i agreed with you that the "staunch" ones are where the problem lies and that rangers would do nothing as sectarianism sells for them, its bums on seats, 90minutes of allowed bigotry , she disagreed, she said the problem lay with faith schools. .

Did she really?

Suddenly more ducks line up in a row...

[MENTION=101]egb_hibs[/MENTION] get yer erse back on here :wink: