NHS Fife tribunal around trans doctor

Forums New posts
egb_hibs said:
You can’t enforce the refutation of objective reality, or at least in a secular liberal country. By all means the NHS can ask staff to do this, but it ought not to be enforceable. Then again we aren’t in a secular liberal country.
Click to expand...
It's like being forced to believe in someone's imaginary friend.
What do you mean Harvey isn't real?!!
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
You've no hurt my feelings. And yes I did read it all. I read every post. Even Ryan's.

And I've just had my brekkie EG. Beans on toast. The toast was likena bit sandpaper or the roof of the mouth 😞
Click to expand...
Yum, cold beans on hot toast and lurpak full fat butter 🤤
 
But does that mean that pre existing prejudice in calling someone with opposing views as a nazi could do the same?
 
egb_hibs said:
Ooh you’re teeing up EGers there…
Click to expand...
The NHS should deal with fact and objective truth. You know, that whole science thing. This is akin to religious faith. I take it you don't agree with this sort transubstantiation? 😉
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
Who has said any different? I'll state again. He can dress and pretend all he wants. Fill his boots.

But he is not a biological female. Jesus fuck EG that's no being upset. It's pointing out a fact.

And lassies should be treated decent and fairly. They should not be forced to share changing rooms with men.

Nothing to do with how he dresses.
Click to expand...
Exactly sir 👏👍
 
Sancho Panza said:
Indeed. The main problem is that there is no comprehensive definition of what "trans" is or means.
Click to expand...
Nail on head. The complete vagueness around this is what makes self ID such a difficult policy. How to you construct societal norms based on objective reality when these can be disregarded because of 'feelz'. Or they can switch in a fluid way. Maybe it's back to legal transition based on a medical process?

The issue is not whether men should be able to act as women and vice versa. Of course they should. But it's the resultant requirement that everyone else has to act as if they are men or women. Which is where the clash of rights kicks in.
 
Sancho Panza said:
Indeed. The main problem is that there is no comprehensive definition of what "trans" is or means. Leaving aside for the moment the objective fact that human beings can't change sex, how is a woman supposed to tell if an obviously male person in their single sex space is a threat or not? They can't, which is why we have this long-recognised social contract. Women are conditioned to see men as a threat. It's a sense that has developed over thousands of years.
I like to think of myself as a good man who would never hurt a woman but how would they know that? They don't, that's why all men should stay out of women's spaces.
Women are not a shield for men with fetishes and mental health issues. Third spaces are the obvious solution in toilets, sports etc but they are rejected as it doesn't make these men feel validated. It's the violation of women's boundaries that gets them off. If they were any sort of woman they would understand women's concerns and fears but they aren't so they don't. This should be about men being more accepting of gender non-conforming men. It shouldn't be a problem for women to sort out.
This post from author Jane Harris shows just how difficult it is to define trans. All these groups fall under the umbrella but have nothing in common.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
Click to expand...

Good post 👍
 
Beagle said:
Just how I interpreted it from the news story that the nurse stated during the hearing to pre existing ‘views’ on the subject of trans people.

Not illegal Jimmy but her point of view might influence the outcome. Remember, the judge has to take a dispassionate decision and if one of the protagonists has, what could be termed as, a pre existing prejudice, it could influence the outcome.

I’m only speaking from an outsiders view of how the court case might go and not on the trans minefield.
Click to expand...
Mon the nurse 🤞
Doctors are great at what they do but this just isny right, is it?
 
Sancho Panza said:
You think THIS is bonkers?
France: Hold our beer!

www.spiked-online.com

Men do not have a right to see a gynaecologist

Doctors in France are being forced to affirm the delusions of trans activists.
www.spiked-online.com www.spiked-online.com
Click to expand...
This was an interesting bit from the article.....


The patient’s lawyer called the situation ‘totally abnormal’. On this, it is hard to disagree. A medical professional refused to indulge in someone’s delusional fantasies and, as a result, he was pilloried by activists and punished by the professional body that should have defended him.

Yet for some trans activists, the decision to suspend Acharian is not enough. Trans-activist group SOS Homophobie issued a statement claiming that the doctor’s actions were potentially ‘also punishable by criminal sanctions’.
 
Sancho Panza said:
The NHS should deal with fact and objective truth. You know, that whole science thing. This is akin to religious faith. I take it you don't agree with this sort transubstantiation? 😉
Click to expand...
Its absolutely a religious belief, which people are entitled to hold (though i don't know how atheists can as it requires a soul). But organs of the state should not be able to compel people to submit to religious edicts.

Moreover as you say, medicine is a science and thats the business of the NHS. Though I wouldn't push that too hard Sancho as a bunch of other liberal shibboleths may start to wobble.
 
Sancho Panza said:
You think THIS is bonkers?
France: Hold our beer!

www.spiked-online.com

Men do not have a right to see a gynaecologist

Doctors in France are being forced to affirm the delusions of trans activists.
www.spiked-online.com www.spiked-online.com
Click to expand...
It’s total insanity. Despite all the diversions about disabled people and the likes, everyone knows that this is the culture that Trump is targetting with DEI measures. And on this front alone I don’t know how any right minded person can disagree (though can absolutely disagree with his related irresponsible waffle as exhibited re the Washington plane crash).
 
egb_hibs said:
What are you on about EG? You’re straw manning again. My principle you struggled to understand addressed what you are preaching about, but put it in context. Your corporate commandments are, incidentally, identical to those that could have applied anywhere - at least until the era where the rainbow flags came out and staff and customers started to be instructed on rightthink. I do agree however, that they are particularly important in the NHS.

The context I gave is relevant, because despite you piously insisting that the NHS needs to train staff to treat people with respect, it seems unable to teach people to treat female patients with dignity, judging by episodes where it keeps failing to do so.

It certainly shouldn’t be beyond the wit of CBT courses you previously suggested address diversity and equality.

Why do you have so many loonballs on the payroll who don’t know how to treat female patients with dignity, anyway? Why the hell would it require training not send in a beardy cnut to do a smear when a women has requested female staff, for example? Or to place biological men on women’s wards. These things require a truly unusual degree of insensitivity, to a degree I wouldn’t think easily found outside of ideologically programmed groups. And lets not even go there on the maddies butchering or chemically castrating children.
Click to expand...
get a grip. castrating children has fuck all... fuck all tae dae wi online traing on equality laws in the nhs. Do you understand what im saying? Do you understand that the nhs, is not there to judge anyone on their lifestyles or who they wish to be or where they come from or what background they have?. Do you understand that?. Is there an arguement with you for everything?

Do you understand everything ive been trying to explain to you about on line fecking training?
Do you understand that i am not aguing with you on the right and wrongs of trangenders, peoples sexualities, or their backgrounds? You can separate this yes?

Are you getting it?
 
emerald green said:
get a grip. castrating children has fuck all... fuck all tae dae wi online traing on equality laws in the nhs. Do you understand what im saying? Do you understand that the nhs, is not there to judge anyone on their lifestyles or who they wish to be or where they come from or what background they have?. Do you understand that?. Is there an arguement with you for everything?

Do you understand everything ive been trying to explain to you about on line fecking training?
Do you understand that i am not aguing with you on the right and wrongs of trangenders, peoples sexualities, or their backgrounds? You can separate this yes?

Are you getting it?
Click to expand...
You keep telling everyone else to relax EG, perhaps you should.

No one is disputing the NHS should treat everyone without prejudice. I’ve said so explicitly more than once. It’s not me that is struggling to understand what is written.

However, given it’s chequered history in areas of gender madness, and given you tell me it does diversity training every year, it’s not unreasonable to expect that to address its actual problems in the area, is it?

As for arguing with everything given your own propensity …!
 
egb_hibs said:
You keep telling everyone else to relax EG, perhaps you should.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you should stop being so obtuse. Dragging folks into your cess pit.
egb_hibs said:
No one is disputing the NHS should treat everyone without prejudice. I’ve said so explicitly more than once. It’s not me that is struggling to understand what is written.
Click to expand...
And Ive explicitly told you you about the training, and try to nip in the bud your ill advised pap.
You seem think thgat i am advocating for the whole trans kit n caboodle!!
egb_hibs said:
However, given it’s chequered history in areas of gender madness, and given you tell me it does diversity training every year, it’s not unreasonable to expect that to address its actual problems in the area, is it?
Click to expand...
As ive tried to say WHY there is equality training. Because you have the wrong end of the stick. There are LAWS. They are trying to get their staff to understand where these laws touch the day to day workings of NHS staff. It encompaces many facets. No jus "guys wearing dresses" "or men who think they are wimmen" You could debate in a room on your own. There is nothing sinister about it all. How YOU or I think about rights and genders and sexuality and skin colours is neither here nor there.
Hope your clear.
 
emerald green said:
Perhaps you should stop being so obtuse. Dragging folks into your cess pit.

And Ive explicitly told you you about the training, and try to nip in the bud your ill advised pap.
You seem think thgat i am advocating for the whole trans kit n caboodle!!

As ive tried to say WHY there is equality training. Because you have the wrong end of the stick. There are LAWS. They are trying to get their staff to understand where these laws touch the day to day workings of NHS staff. It encompaces many facets. No jus "guys wearing dresses" "or men who think they are wimmen" You could debate in a room on your own. There is nothing sinister about it all. How YOU or I think about rights and genders and sexuality and skin colours is neither here nor there.
Hope your clear.
Click to expand...
I do understand what you are saying, I’ve never not done.

Cess pits ? Wow.
 
Well Swinney made HIS view clear on women only safe spaces. Unless he's done a Starmer.....


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
From the article....

NHS Fife is currently facing an employment tribunal from a nurse who objected to a trans-identified male using the women’s changing rooms.

As reported in the press, after raising a complaint, she was told to use a cupboard to change in*, and was later suspended (since lifted).

A separate case is currently being brought against their employer on similar grounds by a group of nurses in Darlington.

The likely cost to NHS Fife is reported to be around £200,000.

NHS Boards are unelected. Political accountability for the NHS in Scotland rests with the Scottish Government.


So unelected heath board uses public money, tries to have the hearing in secret and the result ends with Holyrood.

So I put a clip up of Swinney basically agreeing with the nurse.

So £200,000 grand wasted then? As said by many now the malign nearly stoat the baws greens are binned maybe they can get back to sorting out the NHS rather than hurty feelings.

*The nurse was to use a cupboard. Why no the geezer?
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
There has to be only one winner in this. Well the lawyer will do well out of the NHS funds to be fair.

But Sandie Peggie has to win this or the bams will think they have folk on their side.

A doctor who gets weepy because they are misgendered is in the wrong job I would think.
Click to expand...
This is absolutely hilarious. His own lawyer misgenders him several times. Even she can't maintain this farce and remember the approved language.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
It's madness mate. Politicians should be getting questioned endlessly about how many citizens lives are shite.

But call a man in a skirt er a man in a skirt let's spend £200,000 on lawyers fees.

Where is the political leadership? The SNP are up to their necks in this madness due to snuggling up to the stoat the baw greens.
 
EH17 Jimmy said:
It's madness mate. Politicians should be getting questioned endlessly about how many citizens lives are shite.

But call a man in a skirt er a man in a skirt let's spend £200,000 on lawyers fees.

Where is the political leadership? The SNP are up to their necks in this madness due to snuggling up to the stoat the baw greens.
Click to expand...
£200,000 would pay 6 newly qualified Band 5 nurses for a year.
 
I do find it difficult sometimes to read these threads. I've got a fair number of trans folk I'd call friends - not doing an inventory here but at least 20 - of varying identities and...genital starting points... and every time I come on the cowshed and the sluice gate is opened to people saying just rancid things about them - a clear majority of posters describing my friends, people they've never met and would go out of their way to never meet, as deviants, rapists, lunatics and/or child abusers...

Most of my gay/trans friends absolutely wouldn't go near a football stadium, because they associate the sport with the people who want to see their heads kicked in on principle. And I always liked to imagine the bounce as a reasonable space filled with like-minded individuals, normal folk who enjoy the sport and have some sense of it as a social good, of easter road as a sort of secular church, who were proud of the charitable side of things in equal measure to their fondness for Le God holding his teeth.

And these days I think my friends are maybe right, and Hibs fans are no different to any others, and the bigotry we all decry in the Huns is in fine health as long as the target is a minority it's socially acceptable to hate.

It's fucking miserable.
 
FTJT said:
I do find it difficult sometimes to read these threads. I've got a fair number of trans folk I'd call friends - not doing an inventory here but at least 20 - of varying identities and...genital starting points... and every time I come on the cowshed and the sluice gate is opened to people saying just rancid things about them - a clear majority of posters describing my friends, people they've never met and would go out of their way to never meet, as deviants, rapists, lunatics and/or child abusers...

Most of my gay/trans friends absolutely wouldn't go near a football stadium, because they associate the sport with the people who want to see their heads kicked in on principle. And I always liked to imagine the bounce as a reasonable space filled with like-minded individuals, normal folk who enjoy the sport and have some sense of it as a social good, of easter road as a sort of secular church, who were proud of the charitable side of things in equal measure to their fondness for Le God holding his teeth.

And these days I think my friends are maybe right, and Hibs fans are no different to any others, and the bigotry we all decry in the Huns is in fine health as long as the target is a minority it's socially acceptable to hate.

It's fucking miserable.
Click to expand...
Drama Queen
 
FTJT said:
I do find it difficult sometimes to read these threads. I've got a fair number of trans folk I'd call friends - not doing an inventory here but at least 20 - of varying identities and...genital starting points... and every time I come on the cowshed and the sluice gate is opened to people saying just rancid things about them - a clear majority of posters describing my friends, people they've never met and would go out of their way to never meet, as deviants, rapists, lunatics and/or child abusers...

Most of my gay/trans friends absolutely wouldn't go near a football stadium, because they associate the sport with the people who want to see their heads kicked in on principle. And I always liked to imagine the bounce as a reasonable space filled with like-minded individuals, normal folk who enjoy the sport and have some sense of it as a social good, of easter road as a sort of secular church, who were proud of the charitable side of things in equal measure to their fondness for Le God holding his teeth.

And these days I think my friends are maybe right, and Hibs fans are no different to any others, and the bigotry we all decry in the Huns is in fine health as long as the target is a minority it's socially acceptable to hate.

It's fucking miserable.
Click to expand...

Ach its a shame you're getting to that point with it @FTJT - Just imagine what you'd be reading if you turned some of your blocks off though 🤣

I appreciate you might not want to contribute further to this thread, but I'd be interested to know from someone with closer personal ties to the trans community what sort of takes there are on the female only space question.

I have a couple of lesbian friends who are in constant disagreement on this one, so my small irl window into the gay community has me none the wiser.
 
FTJT said:
I do find it difficult sometimes to read these threads. I've got a fair number of trans folk I'd call friends - not doing an inventory here but at least 20 - of varying identities and...genital starting points... and every time I come on the cowshed and the sluice gate is opened to people saying just rancid things about them - a clear majority of posters describing my friends, people they've never met and would go out of their way to never meet, as deviants, rapists, lunatics and/or child abusers...

Most of my gay/trans friends absolutely wouldn't go near a football stadium, because they associate the sport with the people who want to see their heads kicked in on principle. And I always liked to imagine the bounce as a reasonable space filled with like-minded individuals, normal folk who enjoy the sport and have some sense of it as a social good, of easter road as a sort of secular church, who were proud of the charitable side of things in equal measure to their fondness for Le God holding his teeth.

And these days I think my friends are maybe right, and Hibs fans are no different to any others, and the bigotry we all decry in the Huns is in fine health as long as the target is a minority it's socially acceptable to hate.

It's fucking miserable.
Click to expand...
Don't be confused @FTJT. The majority of folk on here are not as you say mate because the majority of Bouncers have not even commented. In fact like most I have not commented leaving the same bunch of reactionary, snearing, mocking, condescending gobshites to get on with with their near pathological obsession with this topic. Polishing each other's ego at every turn along the way. Just another wee gang hut of several usual suspects that as I have said before has made this place insufferable to many, who have simply ceased to participate or moved on to do better things with their time. To those posters who do take on the wisdom of the Bounce Loony Right, all the best.
If idiots care to call names like 'Drama Queen' that gives these gentlepersons the giggles, ignore them mate.

BIG G
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
  • Menu
  • Home
  • Hibs Chat
  • New Posts
  • Just Back
  • Chatroom