New Signing Nathan Lowe

[Smurf]

Miss the days of at least pretending to build a team for a couple of years.

If he’s good then we aren’t getting him permanently and not us that makes any money from him.

I'm glad it's 12 months. The reality is any top player won't be with us long whether he's 'ours' or not. The churn is just the way the game now is.

 

[blue toon hibby]

I'm unsure about the hair......

Barry Lavety flashbacks?

 

[Dub]

Of course let's wait and see if Gray actually plays him....

He'll be bedded in by about January mate, don't worry.

 

[SlovSam]

A decent enough no risk loan signing who may or may not make the jump up to SPL level but should definetly be able to perform well against the bottom 6 teams though the top 6 and the Puddledrinkers, Celtc and "Scotlands Shame 2012" is a fair old jump from that far down the English pyramid.

Much the same could be said about Callum Wright and Azeem Abudulai with Jason Kerr being the obvious standout signing so far.

Significantly it's a loan deal and Hibs urnae building the Chaiwa or Mulligan money into their planning obviously cos there isnae any but of course in time there will be.

You get the feeling "the laddie" and the family think Hibs have run their course and now they are looking to recoup on the huge losses from the last few years and move towards a break even scenario prior to moving on.

No harm at all in this as on the whole they have been fine owners but this is a team being built for consolidating top 6 but it's not a team being built for challenging for 3rd and 4th where the real money can be made though as they will have concluded with very increasing difficulty given the slump in the UEFA coefficient.

 

[Hammi]

You get the feeling "the laddie" and the family think Hibs have run their course

Why come?

 

[Hibs Soldier]

A decent enough no risk loan signing who may or may not make the jump up to SPL level but should definetly be able to perform well against the bottom 6 teams though the top 6 and the Puddledrinkers, Celtc and "Scotlands Shame 2012" is a fair old jump from that far down the English pyramid.

Much the same could be said about Callum Wright and Azeem Abudulai with Jason Kerr being the obvious standout signing so far.

Significantly it's a loan deal and Hibs urnae building the Chaiwa or Mulligan money into their planning obviously cos there isnae any but of course in time there will be.

You get the feeling "the laddie" and the family think Hibs have run their course and now they are looking to recoup on the huge losses from the last few years and move towards a break even scenario prior to moving on.

No harm at all in this as on the whole they have been fine owners but this is a team being built for consolidating top 6 but it's not a team being built for challenging for 3rd and 4th where the real money can be made though as they will have concluded with very increasing difficulty given the slump in the UEFA coefficient.

Dunno why your assumption is "consolidating" top 6 rather than fight for 3rd or 4th. Based on our signings its everything we need. Do you reckon they are all gonna be garbage?

 

[Cavalier]

Gonna need new lyrics

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[Greenmachine]

Been offline for the last couple of days so missed this signing.
Would have preferred a more experienced and permanent signing for upfront, but he comes with a very good recommendation.

Welcome to the Hibees Nathan.

 

[SlovSam]

Why come?

After all the onfield investments and ambition of the early years with big signings and the deliberate building up of huge losses that were subsequently paid off by loan write offs and share buy backs there has been many indicators summed up by the CEO talking about having to move to a break even postion going forward that these days are now over.

Nothing at all wrong in moving to breakeven but it means Hibs will be 5th in the wages and salaries department of Scottish football which tends to be where a club ends up.

Of course there are many exceptions which is why football is so exciting and unexpected and gives us the hope that keeps us going.

 

[SlovSam]

Dunno why your assumption is "consolidating" top 6 rather than fight for 3rd or 4th. Based on our signings its everything we need. Do you reckon they are all gonna be garbage?

Some players will succeed ,others wont but collectively given the club's and level they come from I see the new signings as very decent players but a bit short of the quality required to challenge at top end of the table.

Nor can I see better crop of the current players such as Chaiwa and Mulligan lasting the full season so what you gain on the swings you lose on the roundabouts..

It doesn't mean it can't be a good season though as there is a whole raft of competitions to compete in which just require putting together a run of 4/5 good games and any team can do that and this Hibs team should still be very competitive .

 

[Hattie]

After all the onfield investments and ambition of the early years with big signings and the deliberate building up of huge losses that were subsequently paid off by loan write offs and share buy backs there has been many indicators summed up by the CEO talking about having to move to a break even postion going forward that these days are now over.

Nothing at all wrong in moving to breakeven but it means Hibs will be 5th in the wages and salaries department of Scottish football which tends to be where a club ends up.

Of course there are many exceptions which is why football is so exciting and unexpected and gives us the hope that keeps us going.

We have a few million from last seasons euro games plus at least £6m for Bowie for this season.
We must be in a good position with that

 

[Hammi]

After all the onfield investments and ambition of the early years with big signings and the deliberate building up of huge losses that were subsequently paid off by loan write offs and share buy backs there has been many indicators summed up by the CEO talking about having to move to a break even postion going forward that these days are now over.

Nothing at all wrong in moving to breakeven but it means Hibs will be 5th in the wages and salaries department of Scottish football which tends to be where a club ends up.

Of course there are many exceptions which is why football is so exciting and unexpected and gives us the hope that keeps us going.

Early years? We made big signings 12 months ago. Jason Kerr and Callum Wright might no cost millions up front, but wages won't be cheap.
Things haven't changed that drastically imo.

Wanting the club to operate without losing its arse every year doesn't mean they're moving towards a Sale. Doesn't mean they're not either. Wouldn't say I get the feeling they've had enough of their toy. Still plenty being done with the club.

And we've pulled in a small fortune, with more to come.

 

[Greenmachine]

Nathan Lowe's year long loan deal gives us five forwards for next season....Boyle, Lowe, Elding, Klidje and Suto.
That should give the manager a range of good options, assuming of course Lowe settles into scottish football and proves his worth.

Boyle; I think Martin will be used mainly as an impact striker/winger this season coming off the bench late in games when we are looking for a winner/equaliser or just wanting to stretch tiring defences late on. He is still our most feared forward player and with 100 plus goals to his name and a club legend for me still has big part to play. His pace might be lessening but his experience and know-how will be valuable to our quite youthful looking striking options. Teams will still shit themselves when they see Martin Boyle coming off the bench with 15 to 20 minutes to go.

Elding: Owen is a raw talent which still needs developing IMO. The danger is that the fans will expect too much from him, but maybe he will thrive on that challenge. He certainly has the confidence and ability to be big player for us next season.

Suto; Divides opinion. IMO he was not ready to start games when he signed in January but he should be when the season starts. I think he showed enough when he came on in matches in the latter part of last season to indicate that he is a good finisher and an effective penalty box striker. He will need good service though as will they all.

Klidge: Here's where I think I am possibly in a minority , because I think Klidge is an excellent player and if he is used properly could really impact our season well. I honestly think he was bought with the idea that he would eventually take over from Martin Boyle and I think he could be an effect attacking wide player on the right or through the middle with his pace. For his height he is good in the air, and he scored a few excellent goals last season when starting in matches.

Lowe: We don't know yet, but Hibs will have done a lot of research on him prior to taking him on loan. Hopefully he is physical, can hold the ball up, is decent in the air and can finish.

For all of the above to be successful the manager has to get the best out of them.
I have to say it is a very young looking collection of strikers so Boyle's influence and experience will hopefully help them.

Here's hoping anyway.

 

[Smurf]

We have a few million from last seasons euro games plus at least £6m for Bowie for this season.
We must be in a good position with that

We have been running at huge losses.

 

[blue toon hibby]

Nathan Lowe's year long loan deal gives us five forwards for next season....Boyle, Lowe, Elding, Klidje and Suto.
That should give the manager a range of good options, assuming of course Lowe settles into scottish football and proves his worth.

Boyle; I think Martin will be used mainly as an impact striker/winger this season coming off the bench late in games when we are looking for a winner/equaliser or just wanting to stretch tiring defences late on. He is still our most feared forward player and with 100 plus goals to his name and a club legend for me still has big part to play. His pace might be lessening but his experience and know-how will be valuable to our quite youthful looking striking options. Teams will still shit themselves when they see Martin Boyle coming off the bench with 15 to 20 minutes to go.

Elding: Owen is a raw talent which still needs developing IMO. The danger is that the fans will expect too much from him, but maybe he will thrive on that challenge. He certainly has the confidence and ability to be big player for us next season.

Suto; Divides opinion. IMO he was not ready to start games when he signed in January but he should be when the season starts. I think he showed enough when he came on in matches in the latter part of last season to indicate that he is a good finisher and an effective penalty box striker. He will need good service though as will they all.

Klidge: Here's where I think I am possibly in a minority , because I think Klidge is an excellent player and if he is used properly could really impact our season well. I honestly think he was bought with the idea that he would eventually take over from Martin Boyle and I think he could be an effect attacking wide player on the right or through the middle with his pace. For his height he is good in the air, and he scored a few excellent goals last season when starting in matches.

Lowe: We don't know yet, but Hibs will have done a lot of research on him prior to taking him on loan. Hopefully he is physical, can hold the ball up, is decent in the air and can finish.

For all of the above to be successful the manager has to get the best out of them.
I have to say it is a very young looking collection of strikers so Boyle's influence and experience will hopefully help them.

Here's hoping anyway.

Agreed. We should now have sufficient depth in the squad to enable SDG to properly mix things up - whether or not he does that remains to be seen though. I’m hopeful.

 

[SlovSam]

24/25: Loss for the Year: £6m.
23/24: Loss for the Year: £7m.
22/23: Loss for the Year: £3m.
21/22: Loss for the Year: £2m.
20/21: Profit for the year £1m

That's £17million of losses deliberately built up over the last 5 years which isn't remotely a criticism as there has been an ambitious and successful attempt to drive up Turnover and improve all aspects of club infrastructure.

There was also an injection of new equity of about £6m as well as some outside investments from the Black Knights which is another indication that the owners have very much financed the club and made a very decent attempt to move the club forward.

My point is though that they urnae doing all this again and we are moving into a holding period as they attempt to slowly drive down costs and move to an operating break even basis which is exactly what the new chief executive says he was employed to do and that there isn't any pot of Bowie money or legacy European money waiting to be spent as it was already spent on financing previous losses.

 

[jetsam1]

Well, running at a constant year on year loss is not really a clever thing to be doing. But football is unique in business it seems. You can totally screw up financially and if you have the right connections get away with it.

 

[Jack]

24/25: Loss for the Year: £6m.
23/24: Loss for the Year: £7m.
22/23: Loss for the Year: £3m.
21/22: Loss for the Year: £2m.
20/21: Profit for the year £1m

That's £17million of losses deliberately built up over the last 5 years which isn't remotely a criticism as there has been an ambitious and successful attempt to drive up Turnover and improve all aspects of club infrastructure.

There was also an injection of new equity of about £6m as well as some outside investments from the Black Knights which is another indication that the owners have very much financed the club and made a very decent attempt to move the club forward.

My point is though that they urnae doing all this again and we are moving into a holding period as they attempt to slowly drive down costs and move to an operating break even basis which is exactly what the new chief executive says he was employed to do and that there isn't any pot of Bowie money or legacy European money waiting to be spent as it was already spent on financing previous losses.

An interesting run of losses. £1m less than I thought

I've not been keeping close track of the debt for equity swaps but it looks reasonably close.

Add that to the cost of buying the club and comparing it to the current book value it would appear the club are still within the original Ron Gordon financial plans for growing the club.

That is £17/18m losses/debt for equity, plus £5m original purchase price, total £23m.

Current book value circa £26m.

Happy for anyone to correct my memory and mental arithmetic

 

[Greenmachine]

The next big announcement within the next year will likely be the new redeveloped Training Centre at East Mains.
A huge investment.
I wonder how that is going to leave things ?

 

[Smurf]

24/25: Loss for the Year: £6m.
23/24: Loss for the Year: £7m.
22/23: Loss for the Year: £3m.
21/22: Loss for the Year: £2m.
20/21: Profit for the year £1m

That's £17million of losses deliberately built up over the last 5 years which isn't remotely a criticism as there has been an ambitious and successful attempt to drive up Turnover and improve all aspects of club infrastructure.

There was also an injection of new equity of about £6m as well as some outside investments from the Black Knights which is another indication that the owners have very much financed the club and made a very decent attempt to move the club forward.

My point is though that they urnae doing all this again and we are moving into a holding period as they attempt to slowly drive down costs and move to an operating break even basis which is exactly what the new chief executive says he was employed to do and that there isn't any pot of Bowie money or legacy European money waiting to be spent as it was already spent on financing previous losses.

Indeed. I've heard too many Hibs supporters say the last two months "...we've got the Bowie money and all the European money still to spend....".

The reality is the huge losses were not sustainable and the new CEO has obviously been given a brief to get on top of that....

Against that the Gordon family are really at a crossroads in terms of their ownership of the club. The entire Black Knights episode was an attempt (Gordon family stated it was always the plan) to push us on to more challenge within the top 3. Obviously that plan didn't work out and the Gordon family bought the shares all back (was that the club buying them back?).

In his New Year message Ian Gordon stated "Lastly, I wanted to touch upon our decision to acquire Black Knight Football Club’s shares in Hibernian FC. Every decision we make for the Club has Hibs at the very heart of it. The timing was right for everyone, and we thank them for the support they gave us during the partnership. We are confident and excited about the future, I believe the Club is in a good position organisationally and financially, and we have big plans moving forward."

What were the "..big plans". I took it to be other alternative investment lined up. And not long afterwards we had media speculation with regards to Scotland's richest man Anders Holch Povlsen. The club played down the media speculation.

The club have through our manager David Gray stated an objective of top 4 in the coming season. Personally looking at our current squad i don't see how that's possible. We need better quality than we have. Our signings (all sound promising) to me don't suggest a serious signal of intent. It suggests budgetary constraints to an extent (which i get as the reality is the market means we can't compete with that lot over the city) with our current turnover.

 

[hibbybilly]

Welcome tae Hibs Nathan, btw we’re skint!

 

[Smurf]

Welcome tae Hibs Nathan, btw we’re skint!

Who is saying that?

 

[hibbybilly]

Who is saying that?

I give up , who?

 

[Hammi]

Our signings (all sound promising) to me don't suggest a serious signal of intent. It suggests budgetary constraints to an extent

Just on this point.
Is it only Youan and loan players that have left us so far?
The budget probably doesn't have a massive deal of room to move yet.

I agree with the Bowie money etc not all going to get run back into the squad, we've got developments and pitches to pay for. They do have to balance the books, because we can't operate at a loss forever and they can't keep doing financial gymnastics to cover it.

We'll still see us spend money imo.

 

[Smurf]

I give up , who?

You've given up.

 

[Ryan69]

Some players will succeed ,others wont but collectively given the club's and level they come from I see the new signings as very decent players but a bit short of the quality required to challenge at top end of the table.

Nor can I see better crop of the current players such as Chaiwa and Mulligan lasting the full season so what you gain on the swings you lose on the roundabouts..

It doesn't mean it can't be a good season though as there is a whole raft of competitions to compete in which just require putting together a run of 4/5 good games and any team can do that and this Hibs team should still be very competitive .

We generally end up lower that our expenditure.