Naff bands/artists who became credible

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Johnny Kash

Johnny Kash

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Jul 22, 2005
Most start off as 'edgy' and then fade into mediocrity with a few notable exceptions. Was thinking about how many have done it the other (and far more difficult) way and gone from cheesy pap to credible/cool.

I give you:

Beastie Boys - bit of a joke when they came out, really it was just shouty, novelty rap. Then they released Pauls Boutique, Ill Communication and the turnaround was complete.
Kyle Minogue - for about one year, around the mid 90s. Confide in me was a cracking tune and video, very much of its time. She was also doing some interesting stuff with Nick Cave around that time, quite the turnaround from the utter pap of the Stock, Aitken Waterman days. It didnt last and she moved onto being the middle aged gay icon/disco queen minx.

I really cant think of many more
 
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Johnny Kash said:
When they released Patience I had to admit that was good.
There has been occasion where Ive been blindsided by an artist coming up with an unexpected corker of a tune. Such as 'Deep' by East 17 and 'Black Coffee', All Saints
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Black Coffee is an absolute belter of a tune
 
The tansformation of wee Jimmy Krankie and Ian from singing rubbish like Fan-Fabi-Dozi and the likes to rocking stardom was to say the least electrifying.

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BIG G
 
Depeche Mode seemed to do the opposite of all the other synth bands by starting out with the synth pop fluff and getting more sophisticated with each album.

Stuff like "Just Can't Enough" and "Enjoy the Silence" sound like different bands.

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Johnny Kash said:
Most start off as 'edgy' and then fade into mediocrity with a few notable exceptions. Was thinking about how many have done it the other (and far more difficult) way and gone from cheesy pap to credible/cool.

I give you:

Beastie Boys - bit of a joke when they came out, really it was just shouty, novelty rap. Then they released Pauls Boutique, Ill Communication and the turnaround was complete.
Kyle Minogue - for about one year, around the mid 90s. Confide in me was a cracking tune and video, very much of its time. She was also doing some interesting stuff with Nick Cave around that time, quite the turnaround from the utter pap of the Stock, Aitken Waterman days. It didnt last and she moved onto being the middle aged gay icon/disco queen minx.

I really cant think of many more
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Beastie Boys are a great shout for this, from being a deliberate joke to turning out some tremendous tracks.

I’d include the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, most of what they recorded before Blood Sex Sugar Magic was either weird 80s nonsense or ridiculously over the top stuff. However they by the time that album was recorded they learned how to turn their vibe into good music.
 
Agreed, in that they really found their mojo from under the bridge through to californication and by the way.

around that time I would also say Foo Fighters peaked with Learning To Fly, really the only time they went more melodic rather than trying to smash it all the time. Great album.
Zab said:
Beastie Boys are a great shout for this, from being a deliberate joke to turning out some tremendous tracks.

I’d include the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, most of what they recorded before Blood Sex Sugar Magic was either weird 80s nonsense or ridiculously over the top stuff. However they by the time that album was recorded they learned how to turn their vibe into good music.
Click to expand...
 
Johnny Kash said:
Most start off as 'edgy' and then fade into mediocrity with a few notable exceptions. Was thinking about how many have done it the other (and far more difficult) way and gone from cheesy pap to credible/cool.

I give you:

Beastie Boys - bit of a joke when they came out, really it was just shouty, novelty rap. Then they released Pauls Boutique, Ill Communication and the turnaround was complete.
Kyle Minogue - for about one year, around the mid 90s. Confide in me was a cracking tune and video, very much of its time. She was also doing some interesting stuff with Nick Cave around that time, quite the turnaround from the utter pap of the Stock, Aitken Waterman days. It didnt last and she moved onto being the middle aged gay icon/disco queen minx.

I really cant think of many more
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Japan went from glammish meh to quite spectacular … I’m not even sure how I’d describe them.
 
Beach Boys, in their early days were just all twee surf pop, with only flashes of the brilliance to come. Went on to make an album considered the best ever, and a few more which were pretty good.

Pink Floyd, although I like their early psychedelic stuff, are now mostly remembered for their 70s albums, which are again regarded as some of the best ever.

Fleetwood Mac, again great early stuff but they are most remembered for the Stevie Nicks era.

Probably many bands which begun early 60s really grew into their sounds, including the Beatles, Stones.

More modern ones who got cooler over time: Blur, Radiohead, Bjork.

I guess all these weren't really naff to begin with so I probably lose.

Agree with the Chilis and Depeche Mode though.

There are also loads of solo artists who matured well after leaving their bands: Justin Timberlake, Shakespears Sister, George Michael, Beyonce, Michael Jackson (although 'matured' perhaps isn't the right word for him...).
 
Two Headed Boy said:
Depeche Mode seemed to do the opposite of all the other synth bands by starting out with the synth pop fluff and getting more sophisticated with each album.

Stuff like "Just Can't Enough" and "Enjoy the Silence" sound like different bands.

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Click to expand...

Just about to mention Depeche Mode,I saw and liked them at the beginning, but I saw their support act Blancmange and thought they were much better. But then they must have been listening to the likes of Cabaret Voltaire, Human League and Einterezunde Neubatten (I knew I would spell that wrong) met Anton Corbinj who had worked with the likes of Joy Division and the rest is history.
 
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Watched a docu. on the Hollies on Sky Arts.They started off as just another beat group, but like the Beatles must have changed drugs and came out with far more interesting stuff like Carousel.
 
Sheena Easton has had a pretty unusual career path which resulted in work with a plethora of artists, Grammy awards, and style changes that back at the start of her career nobody could have foreseen.
 
vasco de gama said:
Sheena Easton has had a pretty unusual career path which resulted in work with a plethora of artists, Grammy awards, and style changes that back at the start of her career nobody could have foreseen.
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Also an accent that changed dramatically after a long weekend in L.A.:)
 
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Two Headed Boy said:
Depeche Mode seemed to do the opposite of all the other synth bands by starting out with the synth pop fluff and getting more sophisticated with each album.

Stuff like "Just Can't Enough" and "Enjoy the Silence" sound like different bands.

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Just can’t get enough….Vince Clarke left after that so I think everything after that was very different.

as someone who liked them from the very start I don’t agree that New Life etc was naff. They became a very different band for sure though.
 
OrkneyHibiscus said:
Beach Boys, in their early days were just all twee surf pop, with only flashes of the brilliance to come. Went on to make an album considered the best ever, and a few more which were pretty good.

Pink Floyd, although I like their early psychedelic stuff, are now mostly remembered for their 70s albums, which are again regarded as some of the best ever.

Fleetwood Mac, again great early stuff but they are most remembered for the Stevie Nicks era.

Probably many bands which begun early 60s really grew into their sounds, including the Beatles, Stones.

More modern ones who got cooler over time: Blur, Radiohead, Bjork.

I guess all these weren't really naff to begin with so I probably lose.

Agree with the Chilis and Depeche Mode though.

There are also loads of solo artists who matured well after leaving their bands: Justin Timberlake, Shakespears Sister, George Michael, Beyonce, Michael Jackson (although 'matured' perhaps isn't the right word for him...).
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What Albums you talking of by Beach Boys and Pink Floyd?

Find it hard to listen to current stuff out and need to look back for something decent.
 
stickyRicky said:
What Albums you talking of by Beach Boys and Pink Floyd?

Find it hard to listen to current stuff out and need to look back for something decent.
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Can't say re Floyd as I am not a fan, but for the Beach Boys, Pet Sounds was the album that Brian Wilson thought might rival the Beatles at the time. He wasn't far off, some great tunes and arrangements as ever to be enjoyed imo.
 
HaarlemShuffler said:
Can't say re Floyd as I am not a fan, but for the Beach Boys, Pet Sounds was the album that Brian Wilson thought might rival the Beatles at the time. He wasn't far off, some great tunes and arrangements as ever to be enjoyed imo.
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Cheers I'll give it a blast.
 
Purple & Green said:
Just can’t get enough….Vince Clarke left after that so I think everything after that was very different.

as someone who liked them from the very start I don’t agree that New Life etc was naff. They became a very different band for sure though.
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I like tracks like New Life too.

"Naff" is probably too strong to describe their formative years, they certainly became more credible though.
 
stickyRicky said:
What Albums you talking of by Beach Boys and Pink Floyd?

Find it hard to listen to current stuff out and need to look back for something decent.
Click to expand...
Pet Sounds definitely a good start for Beach Boys, if you like that then work backwards from the, then forwards, but check out The Smile Sessions by Beach Boys, or Smile by Brian Wilson (both the same thing more or less); their perfect album which couldn't be finished because of Brian's mental illness, finally finished in 2004, with the earlier recordings redone 2011.

Pink Floyd's first album Piper at the Gates of Dawn is a great example of 60s psychedelia, but their more classic (but still experimental) rock side came with Dark Side of the Moon, but Wish You Were Here is also a great Floyd album. The Wall was a grower for me, but very good Basically start at Dark Side and work forwards.

Depending on your tastes neither BB or Floyd might be up your street, what other stuff are you into?
 
OrkneyHibiscus said:
Pet Sounds definitely a good start for Beach Boys, if you like that then work backwards from the, then forwards, but check out The Smile Sessions by Beach Boys, or Smile by Brian Wilson (both the same thing more or less); their perfect album which couldn't be finished because of Brian's mental illness, finally finished in 2004, with the earlier recordings redone 2011.

Pink Floyd's first album Piper at the Gates of Dawn is a great example of 60s psychedelia, but their more classic (but still experimental) rock side came with Dark Side of the Moon, but Wish You Were Here is also a great Floyd album. The Wall was a grower for me, but very good Basically start at Dark Side and work forwards.

Depending on your tastes neither BB or Floyd might be up your street, what other stuff are you into?
Click to expand...

Thanks man. I'll give them a blast.

No really got a type. Just like what my ears like. Got Hip-Hop, Dance, Classical, 90s cheese and others on my phone to listen to.
 
OrkneyHibiscus said:
Pet Sounds definitely a good start for Beach Boys, if you like that then work backwards from the, then forwards, but check out The Smile Sessions by Beach Boys, or Smile by Brian Wilson (both the same thing more or less); their perfect album which couldn't be finished because of Brian's mental illness, finally finished in 2004, with the earlier recordings redone 2011.

Pink Floyd's first album Piper at the Gates of Dawn is a great example of 60s psychedelia, but their more classic (but still experimental) rock side came with Dark Side of the Moon, but Wish You Were Here is also a great Floyd album. The Wall was a grower for me, but very good Basically start at Dark Side and work forwards.

Depending on your tastes neither BB or Floyd might be up your street, what other stuff are you into?
Click to expand...
I saw Brian perform Pet Sounds twice and SMiLE. Genius but you know that mate. I have tickets to see Brian, who will be 80, next year in Groningen,Netherlands. My favourite Floyd LP is Atom Heart Mother which I bought as a stoned, trippy as fuck 16 year auld in 1970. Splendid LP. At that time I saw LOVE from the Sunset Strip in LA and turned on to one of the finest albums of all time, Forever Changes. Check it out Ricky.
You Set the Scene from the album is being played as my coffin is going down. For my big LOVE fan Mike and Kevin. Splendid sessions yesterday.

Glastonbury 2003 ,three years before Arthur Lee passed.

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For total music statos the excellent Swedish Strings and Horns backing LOVE also backed Brian Wilson's SMILE, who I saw in Glasgow. Quality.

Love, Peace and Rock n Roll


BIG G
 
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GORDONSMITH7 said:
I saw Brian perform Pet Sounds twice and SMiLE. Genius but you know that mate. I have tickets to see Brian, who will be 80, next year in Groningen,Netherlands. My favourite Floyd LP is Atom Heart Mother which I bought as a stoned, trippy as fuck 16 year auld in 1970. Splendid LP. At that time I saw LOVE from the Sunset Strip in LA and turned on to one of the finest albums of all time, Forever Changes. Check it out Ricky.
You Set the Scene from the album is being played as my coffin is going down. For my big LOVE fan Mike and Kevin. Splendid sessions yesterday.

Glastonbury 2003 ,three years before Arthur Lee passed.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


For total music statos the excellent Swedish Strings and Horns backing LOVE also backed Brian Wilson's SMILE in Glasgow. Quality.

Love, Peace and Rock n Roll

BIG G
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Very jealous to have been alive during those years, born in 86 so I missed it all but love the music.

Atom Heart Mother was a great album, the middle 3 tracks are sweet. The pre Dark Side albums all have this weird air about them (in a good way), where you felt they were just stoned in the desert a lot or something. My favourite from that era is probably Meddle. Have you seen Live at Pompeii?

Forever Changes is a classic, every single track on that album is brilliant. I've got an extended version of it with outtakes which are all good too. In particular Wonder People (I Do Wonder).

Had tickets to Brian Wilson in Glasgow last year, postponed to this year and now it's been put back until 2022. Just hope to see him before he goes. An absolute mastermind of music.

Didn't know that about backing musicians for Love/Brian. I know he did some stuff with the Wondermints, basically really good studio musicians, the only folk who could do justice to Brian's arrangements.
 
OrkneyHibiscus said:
Very jealous to have been alive during those years, born in 86 so I missed it all but love the music.

Atom Heart Mother was a great album, the middle 3 tracks are sweet. The pre Dark Side albums all have this weird air about them (in a good way), where you felt they were just stoned in the desert a lot or something. My favourite from that era is probably Meddle. Have you seen Live at Pompeii?

Forever Changes is a classic, every single track on that album is brilliant. I've got an extended version of it with outtakes which are all good too. In particular Wonder People (I Do Wonder).

Had tickets to Brian Wilson in Glasgow last year, postponed to this year and now it's been put back until 2022. Just hope to see him before he goes. An absolute mastermind of music.

Didn't know that about backing musicians for Love/Brian. I know he did some stuff with the Wondermints, basically really good studio musicians, the only folk who could do justice to Brian's arrangements.
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The Wondermints who backed Brian and still do are truly perfection.

BIG G
 
The Beach Boys are a good example of a bubble gum early 60's pop band who became hugely influential as they evolved all thanks to an innovative pop genius called Brian Wilson. To be honest, personally I've never been a huge Beach Boys fan or really that much of a fan of Brian Wilson's music, however I have massive respect and admiration for him and what he achieved in the mid 60's. He was way ahead of his time. He always seems such a humble, modest man as well. He had quite a fragile personality which ultimately led to his breakdown and drug dependency, however it can't have been easy for him working with two of his brothers, one of whom was on a self-destruct path from day one, and an egotistical twat of a cousin in Mike Love.

I wouldn't agree that the Beatles started off naff. From day one IMO they were brilliant. Churning out brilliantly crafted pop classics by the dozen and producing a unique sound that was copied by just about everyone back then but never equalled. Their music evolved over 8 years at a phenomenal pace and they are rightly seen IMO as the band every other band ever since has had to follow on from.

A more recent example in my view of a band who evolved to become highly credible from a teenybop origins would be Duran Duran. The ultimate New Romantics, image based early 1980's bland outfit, who went on in my opinion to prove the doubters wrong and produced some great music and albums and they have some terrific musicians, especially John Taylor who is a tremendous bass player.
 
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GORDONSMITH7 said:
I saw Brian perform Pet Sounds twice and SMiLE. Genius but you know that mate. I have tickets to see Brian, who will be 80, next year in Groningen,Netherlands. My favourite Floyd LP is Atom Heart Mother which I bought as a stoned, trippy as fuck 16 year auld in 1970. Splendid LP. At that time I saw LOVE from the Sunset Strip in LA and turned on to one of the finest albums of all time, Forever Changes. Check it out Ricky.
You Set the Scene from the album is being played as my coffin is going down. For my big LOVE fan Mike and Kevin. Splendid sessions yesterday.

Glastonbury 2003 ,three years before Arthur Lee passed.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.




For total music statos the excellent Swedish Strings and Horns backing LOVE also backed Brian Wilson's SMILE, who I saw in Glasgow. Quality.

Love, Peace and Rock n Roll


BIG G
Click to expand...

Intrigued as to what Love were like when you saw them. Sounds like it was around the False Start album which along with all their post Forever Changes stuff is often passed over even though I think a lot of it is fantastic.

I was at a Q&A session after a screening of the film ‘Danny Says’ and this old bloke who was sat next to us and that had been super polite to my wife and I got up to speak. He was Jac Holzman, famous for signing The Stooges, MC5, The Doors, and a tonne of others to his Elektra Records. He said that Arthur Lee was the most brilliant of them all.
 
OrkneyHibiscus said:
Beach Boys, in their early days were just all twee surf pop, with only flashes of the brilliance to come. Went on to make an album considered the best ever, and a few more which were pretty good.

Pink Floyd, although I like their early psychedelic stuff, are now mostly remembered for their 70s albums, which are again regarded as some of the best ever.

Fleetwood Mac, again great early stuff but they are most remembered for the Stevie Nicks era.

Probably many bands which begun early 60s really grew into their sounds, including the Beatles, Stones.

More modern ones who got cooler over time: Blur, Radiohead, Bjork.

I guess all these weren't really naff to begin with so I probably lose.

Agree with the Chilis and Depeche Mode though.

There are also loads of solo artists who matured well after leaving their bands: Justin Timberlake, Shakespears Sister, George Michael, Beyonce, Michael Jackson (although 'matured' perhaps isn't the right word for him...).
Click to expand...
@vasco de gamo My boy Shaun regarded Michael Jackson as a total genius. He also grudgingly admitted latterly that LOVE and Shack were the business. His last gig in his relatively short life was at the Usher Hall, in a wheel chair and oxygen cylinder by now, to see the magnificent Brian Wilson in in 2016 with me.

He was also there that splendid day we and he will always remember .

He bought me this one Christmas. Wonderful.

Jac Holzman has influenced me for the better.


20210726_205115.jpg

LOVE and Forever Changes will indelibly be part of me until I die.

BIG G


.
 
Not quite on topic but found out that a neighbour of mine over here in North Carolina has his mother stay with them..... she was once in the female group The Ritchie Family - and were mildly successful over here, appeared on Soul Train and other shows - toured a lot with The Village People..and his godfather is the soldier from the group!
 
The Thompson Twins started off as an alternative anarcho collective post punk outfit sort of in the style of Chumbawamba, then they decided to come more commercial ,some(me) would argue that they were better in their former style ,but record sales would beg to differ.
 
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