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Just goes tae show wi they statistics eh? He's still a lazy **** but :rascal: And btw I'm in the Lennon must stay camp Eegie..
Just back and we are limping over the line.....
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Just goes tae show wi they statistics eh? He's still a lazy **** but :rascal: And btw I'm in the Lennon must stay camp Eegie..
egb_hibs
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- Jul 2, 2002
I don't know what's got into me this season but I have been discovering an inner statto. While the bottom line is that we have made heavier weather of this than we should, I think there are lots of things overlooked along the way.
The real impact of JC's benching is one; what are easier vs tough fixtures another, and our terrible luck with injuries a third.
My biggest complaint is at the players ability to lift themselves and not just the big vs smaller games thing. Look back at games this year - when we need one goal to draw we find it and usually no more. When we need two goals to draw we seem to manage a second, but no more. So why can't we get two when it would secure a win etc? There is also the inability to hold a lead since Hanlon got crocked. It all smacks of a lack of application and complacency - which is woefully misplaced.
I think we will draw with QoS and I'm not sure we'll win another league game - unless before kick off a win will secure the title, which may just be big enough to motivate the players. I think more likely is that the title will be settled by others dropping points.
I will, meanwhile, be wholly unsurprised if we beat Aberdeen (though I do make them favourites). I think we are more likely to retain the cup than exceed 7 points from the remaining 12.
Hibs, eh?
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Ps otoh, once the title is secured I wouldn't put it past us to stick 4 or 5 past someone.
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- Dec 30, 2005
I don't know what's got into me this season but I have been discovering an inner statto. While the bottom line is that we have made heavier weather of this than we should, I think there are lots of things overlooked along the way.
The real impact of JC's benching is one; what are easier vs tough fixtures another, and our terrible luck with injuries a third.
My biggest complaint is at the players ability to lift themselves and not just the big vs smaller games thing. Look back at games this year - when we need one goal to draw we find it and usually no more. When we need two goals to draw we seem to manage a second, but no more. So why can't we get two when it would secure a win etc? There is also the inability to hold a lead since Hanlon got crocked. It all smacks of a lack of application and complacency - which is woefully misplaced.
I think we will draw with QoS and I'm not sure we'll win another league game - unless before kick off a win will secure the title, which may just be big enough to motivate the players. I think more likely is that the title will be settled by others dropping points.
I will, meanwhile, be wholly unsurprised if we beat Aberdeen (though I do make them favourites). I think we are more likely to retain the cup than exceed 7 points from the remaining 12.
Hibs, eh?
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Ps otoh, once the title is secured I wouldn't put it past us to stick 4 or 5 past someone.
Haha its good reading the stats mate, they more than often put a different perspective on discussions.
I thought , before yesterday, that we will struggle against the sheep. 7goals against an obviously shite Dundee team (even the gunts beat them:rascal
but their confidence will have took a dunt. Injuries tae key players have fucked us up this season, but tae have won the league and no playin tae our true potential is tae lennons credit IMO.
tricky
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- Sep 5, 2002
JC was benched for 7 out of 8 games I think, came on at Greenock to save a point with a late free kick.
he was also on bench for that penalty shambles at Tannadice which Boyle eventually missed
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- Feb 20, 2006
I'm not getting into this again with egb as we will end up going round and round and round.... Let's just say this, my view is when Cummings was dropped it wasn't a good spell and we were winning because he was dropped (4 wins 2 draws 1 defeat) it was just a continuation of a good spell since the start of the season with JC playing every game bar 1.(Turriff game) We had won 6 D 3 L 2 before he was benched. He then gets back in the side and we have lost 1 game since. Winning 10 drawing 10 and losing once. He missed 3 of these games all draws.
Overall we win more games with JC than without him. With W 15 D 10 L 3 Without W 5 D 4 L 2
We have won 54% games when he has started this season. (Which will probs be higher by season end)
Last season we won 54% games when he started.
Season before we won 63% when he started.
In all comps so far this season we have scored 68 goals. JC scoring 21 of them. That is 1 young player scoring just over 32% of ALL Hibs goals.
Another wee fact that I like is we have only lost 1 game when JC has scored. 2-1 at home to Ayr. Jason's 21 goals have came in 17 games this season. We have won 11 of them and drew 5 lost 1 with him scoring in every single game.
This young man has carried the team for nearly 3 years with his goals and dropping him for that length of time earlier this season was stupid and vindictive. It's simple. We have a better chance of us winning if he is scoring and the best way to do that is starting him and not have him fuming on the bench for nearly 2 month. And certainly not for the reasons Lennon was doing it. He seems to understand the lad more now and stopped the iron fistedness. So that's good. Fact is, no one else weighs in nearly enough. Without Jason and his goals we would be fuckin nowhere and I wish more Hibs fans would see that when they moan and bitch about a young man with a remarkable record in doing the hardest thing in fitba. Scoring goals.
Overall we win more games with JC than without him. With W 15 D 10 L 3 Without W 5 D 4 L 2
We have won 54% games when he has started this season. (Which will probs be higher by season end)
Last season we won 54% games when he started.
Season before we won 63% when he started.
In all comps so far this season we have scored 68 goals. JC scoring 21 of them. That is 1 young player scoring just over 32% of ALL Hibs goals.
Another wee fact that I like is we have only lost 1 game when JC has scored. 2-1 at home to Ayr. Jason's 21 goals have came in 17 games this season. We have won 11 of them and drew 5 lost 1 with him scoring in every single game.
This young man has carried the team for nearly 3 years with his goals and dropping him for that length of time earlier this season was stupid and vindictive. It's simple. We have a better chance of us winning if he is scoring and the best way to do that is starting him and not have him fuming on the bench for nearly 2 month. And certainly not for the reasons Lennon was doing it. He seems to understand the lad more now and stopped the iron fistedness. So that's good. Fact is, no one else weighs in nearly enough. Without Jason and his goals we would be fuckin nowhere and I wish more Hibs fans would see that when they moan and bitch about a young man with a remarkable record in doing the hardest thing in fitba. Scoring goals.
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Under Stubbs we played a more attractive and enjoyable style of football that is a Fact. However what Stubbs could not do was get us promoted , harsh maybe given The Huns and there wee diet pals where hanging around at that time. However we remained in the Championship. Bottom line....
We invested well to get out of the championship , or did we ? Because what we got was a team that could beat anyone on a given day , but not a team that could grind out results every week unfortunately.
So along comes Mr Lennon , less cash and investment , up for debate ? , I think the board could of and should have done more but that's old ground.
We had to have a trade off. Play lovely passing football which over the previous two campaigns did not succeed, or play Championship grind fitba to win this league , horses for courses. I knew it was coming at the start of the campaign and was willing to support it if the end result was promotion.
However I have struggled with the style , sat in the stand shaking my heed in frustration simply not the Hibernian way. But also understanding what Mr Lennon was trying to achieve under testing circumstances , injuries , poor officials , less investment etc etc.
Our team is made up of a lot of similar players as last season , Stubbs finished 3rd after Falkirk , Lennon sits 9 points clear ???
No one can tell me this year has been Lennons style of football. What he has done is win a league , put a lot of square pegs in round holes , get us back to Hampden . Next year given proper support from the Board I think he again will develop us further back to something resembling , what we as Hibernian supporters demand within our team. I have said before don't miss the cracks in the euphoria , I'm pretty sure Mr Lennon wont.
Patience is a virtue especially being a Hibs fan. Enjoy Hampden but our Scottish cup this season was in my opinion the league.
We invested well to get out of the championship , or did we ? Because what we got was a team that could beat anyone on a given day , but not a team that could grind out results every week unfortunately.
So along comes Mr Lennon , less cash and investment , up for debate ? , I think the board could of and should have done more but that's old ground.
We had to have a trade off. Play lovely passing football which over the previous two campaigns did not succeed, or play Championship grind fitba to win this league , horses for courses. I knew it was coming at the start of the campaign and was willing to support it if the end result was promotion.
However I have struggled with the style , sat in the stand shaking my heed in frustration simply not the Hibernian way. But also understanding what Mr Lennon was trying to achieve under testing circumstances , injuries , poor officials , less investment etc etc.
Our team is made up of a lot of similar players as last season , Stubbs finished 3rd after Falkirk , Lennon sits 9 points clear ???
No one can tell me this year has been Lennons style of football. What he has done is win a league , put a lot of square pegs in round holes , get us back to Hampden . Next year given proper support from the Board I think he again will develop us further back to something resembling , what we as Hibernian supporters demand within our team. I have said before don't miss the cracks in the euphoria , I'm pretty sure Mr Lennon wont.
Patience is a virtue especially being a Hibs fan. Enjoy Hampden but our Scottish cup this season was in my opinion the league.
egb_hibs
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- Jul 2, 2002
youre right - I had forgotten he got a start then benched again vs united. There is zero doubt he needed brought back (indeed it should have been sooner) - but I dispute that the games he was dropped have delayed securing the title. The stats record that we turned around our worst run of the season when he was failing to make a decisive difference at that point.
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[MENTION=5408]beefy[/MENTION] I'm equally not wanting to get into it, but I think the stats clearly demonstrate his dropping did not cost us an earlier league victory. Of course we've won more games with him than without - he's started 4 out of 5 games we've played!
However we were in a slump when he was benched - that was immediately turned round, and then his return was delayed too long. But the second point does not take away from the first - it was not a continuation of early season form - we had taken 3 pts out of 4 games prior to him being dropped; our form slumped and Lennon took action. To present assert this was simply a resumption in form suggests all management action is without purpose in which case his dropping didn't matter anyway.
Incidentally, the points total you give for the 7 games he was benched is more than we've won in the last 10. It just isn't the reason the flag has yet to be unfurled. If we were picking up points at the same rate as that period over this last ten games we'd be on 68 points and done just now, if we'd done it over the whole season we'd be on 64 and again, done or near as.
tricky
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not sure if we were in a slump when JC was dropped really, more that we dropped some points due to a spate of red cards, two of the three being rescinded ( Bartley's ) and Lewis sent off early in 2nd half away to Queen of the South.
egb_hibs
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Look at it another way; if we accumulated points as we did while he was
benched over the whole season we'd finish with more points than last two seasons or the way this one will finish. We can keep batting it about but it's simply not based on facts to suggest this period cost us an earlier title win.
tricky
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heading out now but am of the opinion it was a terrible decision to drop our top scorer for seven games.
egb_hibs
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And you're perfectly entitled to that opinion. But given our points accumulation was higher during that period than over last two seasons and the rest of this one, and we have had fewer better intervals, it a step beyond for others to suggest it cost us wrapping up the league by now. It was also one of our highest points for goals scored.
tricky
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This is crazy! I'm saying aye it would. We would have won them games with JC starting anyway. The team did not pick up and start winning again because he was benched. We started winning cos we are better than the teams we played at that time. We would have won them games anyway with JC because he is our best striker. He was dropped cos he never scored a goal in 3 games in a row. Big deal. Some of our strikers huvnae scored for 3 months in a row!
Do we win more games when he starts? Yes. Does he score over 32% of our goals? Yes. Do we have a better striker than him? No. Is he the best striker that Hibs have owned since Deek? Yes. Was it right to keep him out in the cold for nearly 2 months? Was it fuck!
I dunno why you stick with this wee 6 game spell as if the whole season would pan out in that timeframe to try to win your argument? Especially as we have been over this before, the first 6 games of the season was even better stats which he scored 7 goals. If other players would do as he does then the league would have been won ages ago. And now you've added we won more when he was dropped than the last 10 games. Jeezo! talk about picking and choosing to suit...What about the 6 wins & 4 draws immediately after the lengthy benching then? A period of 10 games In which he scored 7 goals I may add?
Alas, it is happening again and we are going round in circles and other peeps must be bored of these long spiels. So let's just agree that I'm right (cos I am) and you are wrong and be done with it. Deal? :rascal:
southfieldhibby
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- Oct 12, 2002
Except the possible 4 points lost against Greenock and United away, which would have had the league wrapped up last week, maybe sooner.
egb_hibs
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Ffs [MENTION=12682]beef[/MENTION]ers the spell I'm dealing with is the spell in question i.e. When he was on the bench.
But to keep you happy I'm sure that if he hadn't been dropped we would have mysteriously done better in that period than in the month prior to it and the months since. Lenny just has to pick JC and the rest will take care of itself.
I only wish the team with JC in it was picking up points at the rate you are convinced we would have in that particular window.
JC is a great striker and was dropped for too long. All I was saying was it is pish to suggest the period he was has affected us winning the league earlier. However I now realise the error of my ways and what actually happened versus what actually happened before and after, is irrelevant.
But to keep you happy I'm sure that if he hadn't been dropped we would have mysteriously done better in that period than in the month prior to it and the months since. Lenny just has to pick JC and the rest will take care of itself.
I only wish the team with JC in it was picking up points at the rate you are convinced we would have in that particular window.
JC is a great striker and was dropped for too long. All I was saying was it is pish to suggest the period he was has affected us winning the league earlier. However I now realise the error of my ways and what actually happened versus what actually happened before and after, is irrelevant.
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Good lad. I knew you'd see sense in the end.
egb_hibs
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Good lad. I knew you'd see sense in the end.
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And if someone else had been playing when he missed open goals we'd have he league wrapped up. We can get into crystal ball gazing but while we'll never know for sure, stats are more reliable especially when they compare well against our record over three seasons. Jase is certainly not above a penalty miss either btw and not just when he's trying daft stunts !
southfieldhibby
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One thing I'm sure you can't level at Cummings is missing open goals, unless I've got a mental blank?
also missed penalties...only two I can think of are Hamilton at home when we were relegated and United in the semi. Has he missed others?
Smurf
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Cummings is IMO a superstar but think he did v Raith at Raith last season...
southfieldhibby
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Oh aye, that was a stinker. Right infront of me too. Don't think he misses many, and don't think he's missed any pens apart from the two I mention.
Smurf
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Agreed mate. Lennon was a fanny over how he treated Cummings earlier this season. He proved fuck all dropping him IMO and his timings of pulling him off at times questionable.
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Ah, the old Cummings debate.
As far as I can see, he's scored more or less half our goals this season. For our main striker, that's an unimpeachable record.
As I have consistently said, and as much as I like the guy and appreciate his other contributions on the park, if anyone needs to take a look at themselves, it's Grant Holt. If you're wearing number 9 for Hibs, you quite simply need to be scoring more than 4 or 5 goals (or whatever it is - single figures I'm sure), no matter what other qualities you bring to the team.
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As far as I can see, he's scored more or less half our goals this season. For our main striker, that's an unimpeachable record.
As I have consistently said, and as much as I like the guy and appreciate his other contributions on the park, if anyone needs to take a look at themselves, it's Grant Holt. If you're wearing number 9 for Hibs, you quite simply need to be scoring more than 4 or 5 goals (or whatever it is - single figures I'm sure), no matter what other qualities you bring to the team.
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Just to bring a bit of additional excitement to the day, we sat about ten yards up and ten to the side of the goal area thus guaranteeing a chance of getting smacked in the kisser by a stray football as our players completed their warm up.
It's quite weird watching them practice. Boyle slots them in with aplomb, Jason does the same, as does Keats; SuperJ a bit erratic, Fyvie similar..... Grant Holt on the other hand is Mr Consistency.
Every one a sclaff.
Smurf
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I had to read it twice to pick up on that. That aside I’ve got major skills and can definitely hold my own.
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tricky
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took one point from those games so 5 dropped..
no chance whatsoever that Lennon will be sacked this summer by Hibs and nor should he be, as stated earlier would give him next season to see how he does but not bothered if he decides to leave in the summer and got a feeling he might, hard to say if he is enjoying it..
has made hard work of it for a club with more season ticket holders than our three or four main rivals put together and a club buzzing from post cup final euphoria
C4MMY
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Crazy people are actually asking for him to be booted out. It's not been pretty but we are top of the league and it's now pretty much a case of when will we win it not how will we win it. He's doing the job that's needed to be done to get out of this league, give a full proper transfer window and let's see how we get on re-establishing ourselves in the top flight