Iran

First point I don't know what you are talking about.
OK, questions restated :

1. What name did I call you?
2. Why are you using the term murder where it doesn't apply, but in a manner that does echo widespread redefinition of terms whenever Israel are involved?
3. Why have you expended more effort - and still accumulating - on the this horrific incident than on the massively greater horrors that are the catalyst for these events?
2nd point the fact that he said it multiple times would seem to be a pretty good source yeah.
So you are going to emulate him?
 
What theory?
Mea culpa. I confused you with baggageandfibs with whom I was already engaged. I meant his argument that this war is to distract from Epstein stuff and the other things he listed
Credit where? I'm sure folk like yourself were the ones saying that Trump could or would stop these interventions. Or have I got that wrong?
And this is similary mangled being a reference to b&f's suggestions about Trump's motives
Sorry this is confusing. Either the American right just told him to do it, so very much not against forever wars, or Trump has done it cos he has a (tiny wee) lob-on for attacking Iran
His advisors are not his voters
 
Mea culpa. I confused you with baggageandfibs with whom I was already engaged. I meant his argument that this war is to distract from Epstein stuff and the other things he listed

And this is similary mangled being a reference to b&f's suggestions about Trump's motives

His advisors are not his voters
Ah ok!

So how are you personally seeing this eegie? Are you advisor or voter?
 
If you look at the patch the IDF Soldiers wear on their arm...Its greater Israel!

Look how beneficial US wars have been to Israel...and tell me I'm wrong.


Part of the agreement made during the Ottoman empire....Europe will become Muslim.
Ryan the only credit you are due in this long procession of guff is you are more honest as to what you are about, especially with yourself, then are many others drinking from the same well.
 
OK, questions restated :

1. What name did I call you?
2. Why are you using the term murder where it doesn't apply, but in a manner that does echo widespread redefinition of terms whenever Israel are involved?
3. Why have you expended more effort - and still accumulating - on the this horrific incident than on the massively greater horrors that are the catalyst for these events?

So you are going to emulate him?
1. You inferred anti-semitism (tropes etc)
2. Call it what you want, I call dropping bombs on schools full of children murder. Not the first time either so don't give it the "fuck up" shite
3. Why should I not expend effort decrying the endless cycle of violence. The massacre of civilians is not the catalyst for this operation and you know it. If it was the US would be in Sudan right now.

Emulate him? You've lost me.
 
Ah ok!

So how are you personally seeing this eegie? Are you advisor or voter?
Well I'm not either, but I am in the same position as when you previously asked a similar question iirc. I would love to see the Iranian people oust their oppressors and for massive advances to regional peace with them out of the way. But like others, I fear another shitshow of the kind we are all used to by now.

That Iran is not an Arab country and contains nascent potential for a different social order, still authentic to their history and culture, provides a glimmer of hope, but where there are islamists there is seldom peace and harmony, and there are plenty of islamists in Iran
 
Well I'm not either, but I am in the same position as when you previously asked a similar question iirc. I would love to see the Iranian people oust their oppressors and for massive advances to regional peace with them out of the way. But like others, I fear another shitshow of the kind we are all used to by now.

That Iran is not an Arab country and contains nascent potential for a different social order, still authentic to their history and culture, provides a glimmer of hope, but where there are islamists there is seldom peace and harmony, and there are plenty of islamists in Iran
Fairy nuff dude and sorry for the repeat question.

Reading now that this may be the first direct assassination of a countries leader by another state in 150 years.. Can that be right? Israel going full mafia war? Where the fuck are we headed.
 
1. You inferred anti-semitism (tropes etc)
I said you were resorting to those tropes because you were. I didnt call you any names
2. Call it what you want, I call dropping bombs on schools full of children murder. Not the first time either so don't give it the "fuck up" shite
And here you go again. It's a war not an academic exercise. They tried to hit a revolutionary guard building and hit a school adjacent to it. A horrific error of the kind that always happens in bombing campaigns.

Are you saying it was deliberate?
3. Why should I not expend effort decrying the endless cycle of violence. The massacre of civilians is not the catalyst for this operation and you know it. If it was the US would be in Sudan right now.
But you don't, or at least you devote most of your attention in one direction. Whatever the follies of this campaign, it is going after the root cause of that cycle and of the regions ills: responsible for more carnage than any other since the Young Turks and possibly all others combined. But your focus is on a misdirected bomb, just as it was previously on Palestine despite their being a parallel thread devoted to that topic.
Emulate him? You've lost me.
Well your argument seems to be that Trump is doing this for all kinds of self serving reasons, and you cite in support of that argument the fact that he made similar accusations of Obama. So are you emulating his approach? In which case are you suggesting he was right on Obama, because f not, why are you taking the same approach?
 
Fairy nuff dude and sorry for the repeat question.

Reading now that this may be the first direct assassination of a countries leader by another state in 150 years.. Can that be right? Israel going full mafia war? Where the fuck are we headed.
Whit? Plenty leaders have been killed in wars or as a result of wars

I notice it's now all about Israel for you too. Where the fuck are we headed indeed.
 
Whit? Plenty leaders have been killed in wars or as a result of wars

I notice it's now all about Israel for you too. Where the fuck are we headed indeed.
No eegie. Directly taken out by another country.
 
I said you were resorting to those tropes because you were. I didnt call you any names

And here you go again. It's a war not an academic exercise. They tried to hit a revolutionary guard building and hit a school adjacent to it. A horrific error of the kind that always happens in bombing campaigns.

Are you saying it was deliberate?

But you don't, or at least you devote most of your attention in one direction. Whatever the follies of this campaign, it is going after the root cause of that cycle and of the regions ills: responsible for more carnage than any other since the Young Turks and possibly all others combined. But your focus is on a misdirected bomb, just as it was previously on Palestine despite their being a parallel thread devoted to that topic.

Well your argument seems to be that Trump is doing this for all kinds of self serving reasons, and you cite in support of that argument the fact that he made similar accusations of Obama. So are you emulating his approach? In which case are you suggesting he was right on Obama, because f not, why are you taking the same approach?
I will keep this short as I am sure the never ending pedantry applied to people's posts is extremely tedious for everyone else.

You suggested I was deploying tropes, shorthand > anti-semite, stop trying to be cute and just own your words.
Yes it does always seem to happen in Israeli bombing campaigns, oh well, what can be done? Smart bombs ain't so smart eh?

The Trump thing really isn't that complicated, I don't know why you are struggling with it. Trump suggested Obama was plotting to bomb Iran on several occasions to deflect from domestic political issues. You should check out the concept of projection, I think it applies here.
 
No eegie. Directly taken out by another country.
In a war. I suppose if you judge it to be definitive that he was killed by an american or israeli bomb rather than by their proxies in the theatre or the forces they unleashed (like Saddam or Gaddafi for instance) then maybe it's novel - though the Iranians were plotting to assasinate Trump first.

Personally the ayatollah comes somewhere behind the innocents that have died and will continue to die.
 
In a war. I suppose if you judge it to be definitive that he was killed by an american or israeli bomb rather than by their proxies in the theatre or the forces they unleashed (like Saddam or Gaddafi for instance) then maybe it's novel - though the Iranians were plotting to assasinate Trump first.

Personally the ayatollah comes somewhere behind the innocents that have died and will continue to die.
Dude honestly I'm not saying it to point score or go after Israel for nefarious reasons, it just looks to be a historic action by an aggressor country not done in 150 years. It is, by definition, an escalation like nothing any of us have ever seen in our lifetimes.
 
I will keep this short as I am sure the never ending pedantry applied to people's posts is extremely tedious for everyone else.

You suggested I was deploying tropes, shorthand > anti-semite, stop trying to be cute and just own your words.
I don't think you are an anti semite but you might be picking up on tropes that have been mainstreamed by anti semites and are now pervasive.

The question remains : do you believe it was their deliberate intent to kill these kids, in which case it would indeed be murder.
Yes it does always seem to happen in Israeli bombing campaigns, oh well, what can be done? Smart bombs ain't so smart eh?
It happens in all bombing campaigns. It's just that certain ones are wrapped up in medieval libels, disseminated by provocateurs and ingested by others.
The Trump thing really isn't that complicated, I don't know why you are struggling with it. Trump suggests Obama was plotting to bomb Iran on several occasions to deflect from domestic political issues. You should check out the concept of projection, I think it applies here.
OK, so your argument is that despite it's clear alignment with Trump's foreign policy, and despite him being given a pretext to enact it to its ultimate conclusion, this is in fact about pissing off his base to distract them from other things they are pissed about? And the evidence for this is his own conspiratorial posting about Obama?

I don't find that convincing tbh.
 
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Dude honestly I'm not saying it to point score or go after Israel for nefarious reasons, it just looks to be a historic action by an aggressor country not done in 150 years. It is, by definition, an escalation like nothing any of us have ever seen in our lifetimes.
I'm not convinced it is. America usually gets it's man, often at arms length, granted.

I think the escalation is going hot on a decades long cold war with Iran. But like you I'm not here to point score. I see your point I just place less emphasis on that part of the momentous events here
 
Returning to the central questions here, it seems to me that this whole thing rests on a hail Mary that the people can rise up and take over before the next mullah comes off the production line.

As ever I guess that depends on what the army do. Will the regulars take the side of the people, with the added frisson that that probably means taking on the revolutionary guard? Will the wehrmacht take on the waffen SS, so to speak.

Its a helluva bet.
 
Horrendous. But then their own government recently massacred 30,000 on their streets....

It's quite peculiar that there was very little comment on here when that happened. Though now of course Israel and the USA are involved the condemnation needs no encouragement.
You're sounding like a cheerleader for the war criminal Netanyahu and his American puppet.
 
They are the bad guys which is why the Iranian strikes are retaliatory.
That is a stunning comment D. Those poor ickle mullahs.

As well as murdering 30 odd thousand of their own people in the last few weeks, and so providing the pretext for this war, the Iranian regime is responsible for most of the instability and carnage in the region for nearly half a century. Gaza, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, and more.

The whole good guys / bad guys thing is a pretty silly way to view the world, but if anyone fits the latter bill it is the Iranian regime.

I fckn despair at pig ignorance which can't simply be down to a lack of knowledge given how it travels with obsessive interest in aspects of the region. It's has to be in some way chosen.

Whether that choice is made to earn a pat on the head, to buff ones ego, or just to find an outlet for resentment I don't know, and presumably varies by person. But it's sordid as fuck and is how things like fascism and communism prosper.

And I mean just on the details: striking Dubai is retaliation how? It's actually evidence of why there would be a nuclear arms race the last place we want it, if America and Israel weren't around as a guarantor that Iran will not be allowed to get to a place it can nuke Saudi, the UAE et al. It is their enemy just as it is the enemy of everyone in the region, and anyone who hopes for peace to advance within it.
 
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This is obviously disturbing some on here. Incredible.

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Iran state media confirm he's dead, 40 day state of mourning.
Lot to take in here. This squib might go any which way and multiple factors at play - current continuation, immediate change through overthrow or return of the shah.

I hope it will be possible for the Iranian people to prevail but not a good moment afa human lives are concerned.
 
Lot to take in here. This squib might go any which way and multiple factors at play - current continuation, immediate change through overthrow or return of the shah.

I hope it will be possible for the Iranian people to prevail but not a good moment afa human lives are concerned.
Hopefully but still seems a bit far fetched currently, a council of the supreme leaders allies has now taken over the reigns tonight, saying that the US has also launched fresh strikes so we'll see how long they'll last.

While theres opposition on the ground the regime still carries a very large support within the Shia population, things could get very messy on the ground id imagine.
 
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Muslim countries that support US bombing of Iran - Saudi Arabia
Bahrain
Kuwait
UAE.
Muslim countries against- UK
France
 
Hopefully but still seems a bit far fetched currently, a council of the supreme leaders allies has now taken over the reigns tonight, saying that the US has also launched fresh strikes so we'll see how long they'll last.

While theres opposition on the ground the regime still carries a very large support within the Shia population, things could get very messy on the ground id imagine.
For sure. But there is also chat - emanating from the regime - that 50k out of 75k mosques in the country have closed over the last few years due to lack of attendance.
 
Lot to take in here. This squib might go any which way and multiple factors at play - current continuation, immediate change through overthrow or return of the shah.

I hope it will be possible for the Iranian people to prevail but not a good moment afa human lives are concerned.
I googled the numbers after musing on it last night. It seems there are 350k active personnel in the regular army and 190k in the revolutionary guard, and I'm going to take a punt that the latter are somewhat more fanatical and committed fighters, and that they are loyal to the regime over country. There are also many hundreds of thousands of reservists.

In other words, even if the regular army were to swing behind the people, the ingredients are there for a terrible face off between them and the guards.

Its next to impossible for people to overthrow a regime that isn't already falling apart and losing it's resolve to use violence to crush dissent. Islamic regimes dont generally lose their resolve the way monarchies or communists do. Godspeed to the people of Iran cos they are going to need it.
 
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Muslim countries that support US bombing of Iran - Saudi Arabia
Bahrain
Kuwait
UAE.
Muslim countries against- UK
France
A mob has attacked the US consulate in Pakistan. Won't be long before that sort of thing is happening in Europe. For good or for ill western foreign policy - or the European end of it anyway - is soon going to be constrained by domestic security concerns.
 
Muslim countries that support US bombing of Iran - Saudi Arabia
Bahrain
Kuwait
UAE.
Muslim countries against- UK
France
This is where the anti Muslim obsession becomes blinding. If you only see things in these terms then you don't see anything at all. You don't see the complex regional politics of the middle East- just religion. To reduce Britain and France not getting involved to an entirely bogus religious point is to be blind to the justifiable reasons for not getting entangled in another middle East conflict.

But of course it's not really about the Middle East, is it?
 
This is where the anti Muslim obsession becomes blinding. If you only see things in these terms then you don't see anything at all. You don't see the complex regional politics of the middle East- just religion. To reduce Britain and France not getting involved to an entirely bogus religious point is to be blind to the justifiable reasons for not getting entangled in another middle East conflict.

But of course it's not really about the Middle East, is it?
I'm not sure he was being entirely serious. But Labour's middle Eastern adventurism has indeed proved costly and it's good to see some circumspection from clergy and congregation this time around.

In the future though, it is absolutely going to be a consideration. You'd have to be blind to miss that.
 
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Deputy leader of the Green Party on a march/protest in defence of the Iranian leadership.
 
Deputy leader of the Green Party on a march/protest in defence of the Iranian leadership.
Not surprising really. The greens are following the Islamoleft template that brought the mullahs to power, and the left side of the alliance to the end of a rope.

Corbyn was there too BTW, but then YP are following that template even more than the greens.
 
This is where the anti Muslim obsession becomes blinding. If you only see things in these terms then you don't see anything at all. You don't see the complex regional politics of the middle East- just religion. To reduce Britain and France not getting involved to an entirely bogus religious point is to be blind to the justifiable reasons for not getting entangled in another middle East conflict.

But of course it's not really about the Middle East, is it?
Whats it about then?
And it was a joke
 
Holding a tiger by the tail. The dumbest movement in history.

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