Independence......anybody changed their mind ?

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1 Mcnamara

1 Mcnamara

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Apr 17, 2008
I am genuinely interested to hear what people think themselves, or hear from friends, family and workmates. Do you think many have changed their mind from 2014? Either one way or the other.
I think a small percentage have moved towards Indy, sadly and surprisingly, very small. What's others in here feel for the mood?
 
I’d say virtually everyone I know that tells me an opinion is unchanged since 2014 unfortunately.
 
paigntonhibby said:
Unfortunately some people cannae understand the difference between the SNP being the (only) party that can deliver independence but not necessarily being the party that rules after independence
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The SNP, if they are really still serious about delivering independence to Scotland, should pledge to hold a general election within 2 years of a yes vote.
Speaking of a lack of understanding, in 1975/6-ish a mate of mine said "why bother voting SNP, nobody in England will" back then with no internet and little in the way of tv exposure that was shocking but maybe understandable.
I was astonished to hear exactly the same line from someone in 2013!
For every 10 people engaging in political debate there's probably ten times that figure who have zero interest in even trying to understand what's going on.
 
ILHTD said:
The SNP, if they are really still serious about delivering independence to Scotland, should pledge to hold a general election within 2 years of a yes vote.
Speaking of a lack of understanding, in 1975/6-ish a mate of mine said "why bother voting SNP, nobody in England will" back then with no internet and little in the way of tv exposure that was shocking but maybe understandable.
I was astonished to hear exactly the same line from someone in 2013!
For every 10 people engaging in political debate there's probably ten times that figure who have zero interest in even trying to understand what's going on.
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I thought an election for a governing party would be automatic 🤷‍♂️
 
ILHTD said:
The SNP, if they are really still serious about delivering independence to Scotland, should pledge to hold a general election within 2 years of a yes vote.
Speaking of a lack of understanding, in 1975/6-ish a mate of mine said "why bother voting SNP, nobody in England will" back then with no internet and little in the way of tv exposure that was shocking but maybe understandable.
I was astonished to hear exactly the same line from someone in 2013!
For every 10 people engaging in political debate there's probably ten times that figure who have zero interest in even trying to understand what's going on.
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That last sentence is borne out by the fact so many people think Johnson is doing a good job.
Apathy is the enemy of change.
 
Purple & Green said:
Extremely disillusioned with the current snp leadership, but unwavering fundamentalist on Indy. Can’t see that ever changing.
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I was a member pre and post 2014 but got a bit peed off when sturgeon’s obsession with another referendum took absolute priority over things like health , policing and education .. I’m now convinced we have to become independent to escape from the worst westminster government in my lifetime 😡
 
Voting for independence based on the current Westminster government is pretty short term viewing I think. It's not the reason I'll be voting yes anyway. RUK might have a really sound government in 10 years, we might have tory bastards - not unlikely imo- but the concept of self determination and having a written constitution is far more interesting than voting against something.
 
Purple & Green said:
Extremely disillusioned with the current snp leadership, but unwavering fundamentalist on Indy. Can’t see that ever changing.
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My thoughts as well.

From the later comments, no SNP is not the only option for government of an independent Scotland but I wouldn’t trust Labour or Conservatives not to deliberately erode the state of affairs to the point it makes independence look like a mistake and say “we need to go back to a union…”

Cynical? Never.
 
joethehibby said:
I thought an election for a governing party would be automatic 🤷‍♂️
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It probably will be but not immediately. My point was the SNP should make it absolutely clear that post independence a general election will be held. That will hopefully address the concerns of those who don't understand the difference between voting for an IS and voting for SNP
 
ILHTD said:
It probably will be but not immediately. My point was the SNP should make it absolutely clear that post independence a general election will be held. That will hopefully address the concerns of those who don't understand the difference between voting for an IS and voting for SNP
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This used to be the position of the SNP, but is less clear now. There are practical issues with this approach. The gap between a yes vote and independence might be lengthy. Look how long Brexit has taken to play out. Also, and fundamentally, people need to know what they are voting for in a referendum. You either go with a blank canvas on key issues, which will not provide reassurance to voters or you have a detailed prospectus that there needs to be confidence that it will be delivered. It's very difficult to commit to that if the party that makes the commitment steps down. For people who see independence as the overarching principle then the blank canvas is fine. For those who support it for wider political reasons, then the blank canvas is much less appealing.
 
I'm still as strongly in favour of independence as I was in 2014 and before. My worry is that with the current SNP leadership it just doesn't seem a priority anymore. Before it was 'it wouldn't be right to concentrate on a referendum because of Covid', now its because of Ukraine. They just keep kicking the can that little bit further down the road (not too far though just to keep people onside). In my opinion a lot of SNP politicians seem to have forgotten the raison d'etre of the party and have got themselves just that bit too comfy being career politicians.

Whilst the sleazy jambo Salmond isn't popular on here I am glad that the Alba party exist to at least have another independence minded party on the go and to let the SNP know that they no longer are the only party of independence.
 
tayside hibee said:
But what about the people you mix with? Do you know of any who have changed opinion?
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My pal John is a staunch current bun and up until a couple of years ago, he was a definite no. Then his kid went to uni and chose a Scottish one which saved him a wheen of cash and he changed to a yes.
 
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Dub said:
My pal John is a staunch current bun and up until a couple of years ago, he was a definite no. Then his kid went to uni and chose a Scottish one which saved him a wheen of cash and he changed to a yes.
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The current bun issue , is of great frustration to me. Probably at least 95% of them are against independence. How the football club you support dictates to you, your political leanings , is bizarre at best , at simply tragic at least.
If it wasn’t for that poisonous club, I believe Scotland would vote independence.
Could I hate that club any more 🤔😭
 
Always a firm supporter of independence and always will be. Not a fab of the current SNP leadership though and can imagine a few people will be put off by it with them in charge.
 
bigmanandy said:
Always a firm supporter of independence and always will be. Not a fab of the current SNP leadership though and can imagine a few people will be put off by it with them in charge.
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Borus and the rest of them Tories have changed me from a No to u Yes. My wife’s late mum used to say ‘ you kin haud a thief’s hand bit ye canny haud a liar’s tongue’
 
I’m pretty ambivalent to it, neither pro independence nor pro union. Politicians will politician, regardless of which constitution they’re supposed to be representing.
 
I want to see the break up of the British state which means I support Indy.I think the weakening of the state is predicated to the cause of further revolutionary moves.
 
tayside hibee said:
The current bun issue , is of great frustration to me. Probably at least 95% of them are against independence. How the football club you support dictates to you, your political leanings , is bizarre at best , at simply tragic at least.
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I think it's more the other way, their identity and Political leaning leads them to the dirty hun
 
Smurf said:
I voted No in 2014. I'd vote Yes now. However, I think the SNP in Edinburgh are a horrendous council and Scottish Government. They're no left wing party. They're managerial. Timid.
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You may be right, however, if Scotland got independence I don't think the SNP would get near a government majority. They would have served their purpose.
I actually think Sturgeon is a very good politician. I think she at least believes what she says, unlike many others.
Do you know of anybody else who has moved positions like yourself?
 
Gareth said:
I think it's more the other way, their identity and Political leaning leads them to the dirty hun
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Nah, you credit them with a bit intelligence there.
For there so called " proud protestant through and through" a tiny percent ( I assume) venture to the church on a Sunday. It's all about drums, flutes and catchy tunes.
 
I voted no last time. I’d likely go yes given the chance. Although I hate all the crap stories and lies that lead up to a vote. Every person will be £10million better off Vs everyone will be £10m worse off…….

If only we could rely on an independent entity to give the facts….. something the BBC should play a part in (that’s another debate).

I also voted for brexit (yes I’m a *&*^) because I despise the March toward a united Europe and all the waste that comes with it. I honestly believed that no government would believe a yes vote meant a hard brexit and I truly believe we’d get a Norway style deal!! Fuck me! But then the question in the referendum was flawed on that basis (in my defence).

So even it meant Scotland heading toward a united Europe - I’d now vote yes (and hope I don’t see a European style parliament ruling over us nor a European joint army before I die)!
 
tayside hibee said:
I am genuinely interested to hear what people think themselves, or hear from friends, family and workmates. Do you think many have changed their mind from 2014? Either one way or the other.
I think a small percentage have moved towards Indy, sadly and surprisingly, very small. What's others in here feel for the mood?
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As an Englishman who has worked/lived in Scotland for over 45 years I am aware of the differing opinions of the population regarding independence. I was originally against it from a UK/British perspective that "together is better" and the "sum of the parts" kept the UK amongst those countries that had a say in world politics.
Living here I have come to believe that if I had been born here I would definitely vote for independence. I never realised how patronised the Scots feel by a government they seldom voted for. The NO vote is propped up by the fact that no Scottish politicos have any experience of being "completely in charge" which makes them nervous enough to cling to the comfort blanket of the status quo. Also, surprise surprise, those that have taken centre stage like Salmond and Sturgeon, have proved to be political animals rather than political leaders of the people (IMO). This is not typical of Scotland, this is typical of politicians the world over.
When you look at how those currently in power in Westminster treat the people of this whole island with contempt, how can you not want to get away from them and look after yourselves? How can you vote for tossers like Boris who act more privileged than the feckin' monarchy.

OK, this is all a personal observation, maybe simplistic but IMO too many folk over complicate the main issues and I can't be arsed reading long intellectual "I know bestery". Any government of an independent Scotland would be under such close scrutiny by all the naysayers and Nervous Nellies that those elected would need to do a Henderson.

nb. FTH
 
I voted yes but changed my mind. I'm not the only one, I know a few. No doubt some have went the other way. I just don't see how we can be independent in Europe while sharing a border. Also I think UK is stronger as one. I might be wrong but its my decision.
 
I’ve not so much changed my mind as come to the view there are far bigger fish to fry. The world is going down the toilet and all of the post ww2 consensus is coming unstuck. Tbh independence seems a second rung concern in this light - it certainly solves none of the big problems coming down the pike.

It also was and is sold on porkies, even more so than Brexit. That never really bothered me other than it being distasteful, but I have become increasingly uncomfortable about the number of people being led down the path with promises that are pretty much the opposite of what I believe would be the reality.

If anyone wants an expansive state they should be a unionist. Independent Scotland would be necessity like Ireland, a low tax haven / airstrip one for global corporations.
 
Davy said:
I voted yes but changed my mind. I'm not the only one, I know a few. No doubt some have went the other way. I just don't see how we can be independent in Europe while sharing a border. Also I think UK is stronger as one. I might be wrong but its my decision.
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Alternatively you could be for Brexit and for Indy.Which is/was my position.But then the Left Brexit didnae get off the ground.
 
moathibby said:
Alternatively you could be for Brexit and for Indy.Which is/was my position.But then the Left Brexit didnae get off the ground.
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Interesting, I didn’t know that and wouldn’t have guessed. ‘Lexit’ imho has far more solid philosophical grounding than does a right-liberal version of Brexit, but you are right - it never really got off the starting blocks because the whole affair dropped the fig leafs and signalled the merger of the main current of contemporary left wing thought with global capitalism.

I’m not a ‘big L’ liberal of any version nor a Marxist so I voted remain (with nose pinched) mainly from the motive of peace between nations (I don’t think the economic situation changes much either way tbh once over the initial hump - amplified as it turned out, by covid).

Props to you though Moaty, for swimming against the tide.
 
There was an RIC event back in 2016?Whenever Brexit was , at the Assembley rooms.Cat Boyd spoke and somebody else?Anyway there was a session a debate 'should we go for 'stay' or 'exit'.Anyway the debate was between Neil Davidson a mate of mine now no longer with us-I've mentioned his books before his books have won prizes 'The Issac Deutcher prize'for best Political book or something and Alan Amstrong another Marxist Historian,his book about the Battle of Killicranky most interesting. also has another book out-the Ghost of James Connolly- a light read. Anyhoo Alan argued the Marxist position for stay,Neil the Marxist position for 'leave'.Any how I thought Neil won the debate.
 
Davy said:
I voted yes but changed my mind. I'm not the only one, I know a few. No doubt some have went the other way. I just don't see how we can be independent in Europe while sharing a border. Also I think UK is stronger as one. I might be wrong but its my decision.
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Switzerland has a border and is independent?

The Republic of Ireland has a border and is in the EU.

I think there’s a grown up solution to the current impasse and it’s four sovereign independent states linked by a common agreement. It could be worked to “relatively” “seamlessly” as a template for the next 100 years.

It’s extremely problematic that the ruling party for largely the last 50 years in Scotland is permanently unable to command more than 20% of the popular vote in Scotland. I think that undermines the strength of the UK, and Scotland, and you can’t build on foundations like that.
 
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