If? We get a new manager

[Smurf]

This huge financial support has gone now. Do you still put us in the bracket of 3rd place team is a must?

In what way has it gone? There's been huge financial support that is still ongoing.

3rd isn't a must. But we should be competitive for it. Is being 20 odd points behind the Gunts with a reasonably comparable budget acceptable?

 

[Glenmore Road]

I'd say both Bairns and Well are "differently coached" - in a style of play that opposing Scottish managers are not used to facing and which they have found it difficult to counter. They'll get used to it.
I'd say Gray was more effective at countering it on the last trip to Fir Park than just about anyone else.
"Aye, but it was boring...And eye-bleeding... And anti-fitba... And unambitious... And not Hibs Class..."
Stendel, Cathro and Martin tried similarly strange stuff, with less success.

 

[Hammi]

In what way has it gone? There's been huge financial support that is still ongoing.

3rd isn't a must. But we should be competitive for it. Is being 20 odd points behind the Gunts with a reasonably comparable budget acceptable?

We could play for another half season while they sat at home before we caught up.

 

[Hammi]

I'd say both Bairns and Well are "differently coached" - in a style of play that opposing Scottish managers are not used to facing and which they have found it difficult to counter. They'll get used to it.
Stendel, Cathro and Martin tried similarly strange stuff, with less success.

They play on the front foot.
Nothing strange or awkward about what they do.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

In what way has it gone? There's been huge financial support that is still ongoing.

3rd isn't a must. But we should be competitive for it. Is being 20 odd points behind the Gunts with a reasonably comparable budget acceptable?

No Black Knight investment and we were told our previous season spending is unsustainable.

 

[Smurf]

We could play for another half season while they sat at home before we caught up.

The reality is they'd increase their lead.

If they had our manager do they have their season?

If we had their manager do we have our season?

I can take and accept the mediocre football of playing percentage football into area's if it's successful (and for some 1.52 points on average finishing where we did is successful) and sees you challenging as the Gunts did but Motherwell at home on the final day in what DG called a "cup final" was no surprise in that we lost the game. Out played by players I'd argue are not better and out thought by a better coach. We wouldn't have scored if we were still playing. Elding looked lost and miserable at proceedings. I mean even our warm up compared to theirs told a story.

Warning signs are there for all to see.

 

[Smurf]

No Black Knight investment and we were told our previous season spending is unsustainable.

Are you not aware of how significant our wage bill is? It has and had nothing to do with Black Knights.

 

[Hammi]

Brilliant bring up Championship stats.

Neither of them managed in the championship for us?

 

[Smurf]

@Hibs Soldier

Not that brilliant as neither managed in Championship.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

Neither of them managed in the championship for us?

Yep my bad mixed up with Stubbs. Ross was the one Ron regretted letting go.

 

[Hammi]

What I find interesting is the amount of Hibs fans calling Hearts failures and all the rest.
While being happy with what we're doing.

I'd much rather almost win the league, than finish 5th cheering the actual league winners on the final day.
Then cheering them again a week later so we get a couple qualifiers.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

What I find interesting is the amount of Hibs fans calling Hearts failures and all the rest.
While being happy with what we're doing.

I'd much rather almost win the league, than finish 5th cheering the actual league winners on the final day.
Then cheering them again a week later so we get a couple qualifiers.

You don't get rivalry?

 

[Purple & Green]

Jack Ross was 1.47 points per game.
David Gray is 1.52 points per game.

Personally I don't think DG maintains they stats on his percentage football moving into next season. And I don't think for too much longer we accept being played off the park by teams like Falkirk & Motherwell who have much less resources but are just better coached.

We’ve sustained that and been in Europe and will be in Europe again. It’s highly unlikely that Motherwell and Falkirk will sustain their performances next season, but that’s the real challenge not one off results or one off seasons, doing it year in year out.

Hibs are unlikely to have a position target, because obviously it’s an uncontrollable, but I suspect having built the base they will now look to move the points target up I would think. Europe is hard because it’s uncontrollable, but I think a similar season next season would be solid progress.

I’d love to see more points and more flair, but I think it’s also realistic to say we struggled with Europe at the start of the season and if we’d managed a couple of wins in the first couple of months we’d have probably coasted to fourth and been within touching distance of the top three for most of the season.

We hedged our bets on squad acquisition in July, when one quality addition might have seen us qualify for the group stages.

I think the likelihood is SDG will get offered a bigger job in the next year, and all the doubters can be reminded just how bad Hibs have been at appointing managers prior to him.

 

[Hammi]

We’ve sustained that and been in Europe and will be in Europe again

Keep seeing this.
Every other team that's qualified for Europe and had a poor season the following season was in Europe proper. We weren't. We never qualified. We were out before the league was 4 or 5 games old.

Had we had Europe til the winter we'd be a bottom 6 team.

 

[Hammi]

You don't get rivalry?

Course I do,

But I'd have swapped their season for ours every single week this year.

McInnes is a bottler, while Gray is doing a good job.
Hearts are failures in 2nd and we've finished top 6 two years in a row.

Just backwards.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

Course I do,

But I'd have swapped their season for ours every single week this year.

McInnes is a bottler, while Gray is doing a good job.
Hearts are failures in 2nd and we've finished top 6 two years in a row.

Just backwards.

In the cold light of day it was an incredible season for them but it's the way it ended we all laughed at. Can't see them doing anything like that again. They get 3 qualifiers and could easily be papped all 3.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

Are you not aware of how significant our wage bill is? It has and had nothing to do with Black Knights.

We are 5th on that list right?

 

[Hammi]

In the cold light of day it was an incredible season for them but it's the way it ended we all laughed at. Can't see them doing anything like that again. They get 3 qualifiers and could easily be papped all 3.

Still multiple times better than our result for the season and reward.

I get laughing at them, I laughed at them.
But I wouldn't call them failures while trying to say we're doing well.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

Still multiple times better than our result for the season and reward.

I get laughing at them, I laughed at them.
But I wouldn't call them failures while trying to say we're doing well.

They failed to win the league when it was in there hands. Beyond that brilliant season.

I also feel people think Hibs season was a failure just because what Hearts done. In ten or twenty years time we'll look back and see they didn't win anything.

 

[Greenmachine]

Good discussion on this thread on an important matter.

As I have said before, i'm in favour of retaining David Gray as manager because, i'm afraid, at our level, it takes time to build a successful team and if we keep changing managers ever year or two years we will never make any real progress. I also think what has been achieved in the last couple of years does not warrant a managerial sacking.

Having said all that, David Gray will know better than anyone that last season was not good enough for Hibernian. He also knows that, like every football manager in the world, his job depends on results. He must win football matches, it's as simple as that. Hibs should be fighting for at least third every season....and striving to get closer to Celtic and Rangers.

Hibs, along with Hearts and Aberdeen, are the next level down from Celtic and Rangers in Scotland. I wish sometimes as a club we had the ambition, mentality and downright ruthlessness as a club that you need to be winners. We let ourselves down too much. We are a great club, one of the most famous clubs in Scotland, and I wish our actions reflected that more often.

So I actually agree with the points Smurf is making, it's not been good enough. Gray has made mistakes, and hopefully next season through good recruitment in the summer and another year into the job, we will see fewer mistakes and much better performances and more importantly results. Momentum and confidence are huge in football.

Next season is huge not only for David Gray....but especially the Gordons. We need to see significant progress on the park. As I have said before my fear is that Hearts pull away from us financially and we are chasing their tails for years. I expect Aberdeen to be a lot better next season, possibly Dundee United as well.

 

[Glenmore Road]

How many semi-regular posters on here know more about football or are better coaches than David Gray?
Judging from this thread and others on Gray, it's several hundred; maybe even 1,000. They can easily see his obvious failings in tactics and man management.

The reality?
I'll genuinely listen to 10 as an answer. There are lots of managers/coaches at junior/non-league or youth level who are potentially of Championship or Premiership level. There are also some ex-players on here. It's likely not as high as 10, but there will be some.

If the "front foot" approach of Well & Kirk is so obviously the way to go, how many Premiership and Championship teams will be playing that way next season? My guess is two. McGlynn will keep it going at Falkirk. Motherwell will almost undoubtedly find a new coach who at least starts the season trying the replicate Askouball.
Nobody else is likely to try.
Why do you think that will be the case?
Why can these coaches, many of whom favour less entertaining football than Gray, not see something so obvious?

For that matter, for all the overachieving of Well & Kirk, was it not the Gunts under the dinosaur McInnes who overachieved to the greatest extent, only to be denied by O'Neill?
Sod the lack of striking options at Darkheid, if O'Neill stays on and has a major say in signings, his first transfer priority will be a #5 that makes Bobo Bolde look subtle. His second will be a DM that makes Neil Lennon look creative & reserved. Once he's signed those two, he'll be signing players who might be of use to whoever succeeds him, but knowing he will likely insist on getting two players who'll not be used by his successor may be a point against him with the Darkheid board.
Incidentally, how many posts were there on here in Oct/Nov along the lines of, "O'Neill's senile. He's doddery on TV. He's just a figurehead. He's no real role there. Maloney is doing the actual work"?
Is that so, aye?
Why have the Sheep appointed Robinson?

Folk on here genuinely believe that our £4k/£5k pw strikers and attacking mids should commit enough masse to the Cheeks' own third of the pitch, because the Cheeks' £15k/£20k pw defenders and DMs will not nick the ball from them. Even if the Cheeks' do nick the ball, our £4k/£5k pw DMs & defenders will be covering & tracking across to thwart the Cheeks' £30k pw attackers when they attempt to counter.
Aye, Motherwell's £2k pw bunch managed it... But few other teams, anywhere, have done that consistently v. opponents with 10 times their wage budget.
Pulling it off is clearly a piece of pish, though... So let's give it a go.

 

[Hammi]

If the "front foot" approach of Well & Kirk is so obviously the way to go, how many Premiership and Championship teams will be playing that way next season? My guess is two. McGlynn will keep it going at Falkirk. Motherwell will almost undoubtedly find a new coach who at least starts the season trying the replicate Askouball.
Nobody else is likely to try.
Why do you think that will be the case?
Why can these coaches, many of whom favour less entertaining football than Gray, not see something so obvious?

Because they're scared of getting hammered.
The reason that us, Aberdeen and Hearts should play on the front foot is because we're better than most of the league.
Smaller sides, need to defend to stay here.

There's other teams that play on the front foot too.

For that matter, for all the overachieving of Well & Kirk, was it not the Gunts under the dinosaur McInnes who overachieved to the greatest extent, only to be denied by O'Neill?

Third highest scoring, best defensive record and joint best goal difference over the season, I'd suggest they done their fair share of attacking teams.
Because they believe they can win, where we try to not lose.

Incidentally, how many posts were there on here in Oct/Nov along the lines of, "O'Neill's senile. He's doddery on TV. He's just a figurehead. He's no real role there. Maloney is doing the actual work"?
Is that so, aye?

I don't know anyone that doesn't think Martin O'Neil is a good manager

Folk on here genuinely believe that our £4k/£5k pw strikers and attacking mids should commit enough masse to the Cheeks' own third of the pitch, because the Cheeks' £15k/£20k pw defenders and DMs will not nick the ball from them. Even if the Cheeks' do nick the ball, our £4k/£5k pw DMs & defenders will be covering & tracking across to thwart the Cheeks' £30k pw attackers when they attempt to counter.
Aye, Motherwell's £2k pw bunch managed it... But few other teams, anywhere, have done that consistently v. opponents with 10 times their wage budget.
Pulling it off is clearly a piece of pish, though... So let's give it a go.

Hearts done it. What's their record against the bigots this season?
They've probably got a better record against those 2 sides than we've got against the whole top 6.

Don't be scared. They can pay more than us, but their player pool is shrinking as they don't have anything to offer the real quality players.

 

[Smurf]

I've been a season ticket holder for 33 years. I've not yet renewed. I know I will but I'm glad the season has ended as I felt no real excitement watching us last season. The European night's were wonderful. I really enjoyed beating the Gunts. When we went 3-0 up it was special then we reverted to type... I hoped for a real summer reset and I hope we do hear soon from the club with some kind of appraisal for the season.

 

[HibeeHibernia]

We stuck with Alex Miller and his boring brand of football for ten years and won one trophy. David Gray is a lazy appointment. If we have any ambitions of actually taking the step to the next level he should be a bridge gap to that and nothing more. 3-5-2 is dinosaur stuff and we'll get nowhere with it on the continental stage.

 

[Dub]

1.5 points a game in the top league over two seasons - probably one to compare with history as I suspect it’s phenomenal compared to the last 25 years

It's about 1.63 for all games so it's a decent return if you're happy being bang average rather than comparing him to other Hibs managers. It's the style of play that sometimes grates on people because one week they can be swashbuckling and then the next week it's boring tippy tappy rubbish.

 

[emerald green]

What I find interesting is the amount of Hibs fans calling Hearts failures and all the rest.
While being happy with what we're doing.

I'd much rather almost win the league, than finish 5th cheering the actual league winners on the final day.
Then cheering them again a week later so we get a couple qualifiers.

They ARE failures.

Not sure theres that many Hibs folks exactly "happy" tbh

 

[emerald green]

I've been a season ticket holder for 33 years. I've not yet renewed. I know I will but I'm glad the season has ended as I felt no real excitement watching us last season. The European night's were wonderful. I really enjoyed beating the Gunts. When we went 3-0 up it was special then we reverted to type... I hoped for a real summer reset and I hope we do hear soon from the club with some kind of appraisal for the season.

On off ST holder here for me and one of my laddies. I too haven't renewed. Unsure if I will tbh.
Me too re your last bit

 

[Hammi]

They ARE failures.

Not sure theres that many Hibs folks exactly "happy" tbh

Yeah there are.
Plenty happy with Europe, plenty happy with Grays 1.5pts per game, plenty happy with top 6 being an achievement. Twice in a row is brilliant.

 

[Forzahibs]

It's about 1.63 for all games so it's a decent return if you're happy being bang average rather than comparing him to other Hibs managers. It's the style of play that sometimes grates on people because one week they can be swashbuckling and then the next week it's boring tippy tappy rubbish.

Empty pre paid seats don't lie

 

[SlovSam]

In what way has it gone? There's been huge financial support that is still ongoing.

3rd isn't a must. But we should be competitive for it. Is being 20 odd points behind the Gunts with a reasonably comparable budget acceptable?

Latest accounts to 30th June 2025 show Turnover which is the income generated from all sources as:

Celtc: £143m
Scotlands Shame 2012: £94m
Puddledrinkers: £25m.
Sheep: £22m.
Hibs: £17m.
Mothers £8m.

Obviously one year in isolation isn't that meaningful but if you were to average out say any 3 years then a similar picture develops.

It's therfore reasonable to conclude that Hibs don't really have a comparable budget to the Puddledrinkers but they do to the Sheep and that Motherwells achievement this season were exceptional, Sheepies were atrocious and how both Celtc and Scotland's Shame 2012 got themselves into such a mess and allowed the Puddledrinkers to get so close was nothing less than extraordinary..

League position over 2 years and 76 games really does give the tale the tape rather than the vagaries of cup draws so for Hibs to finish 3rd and 5th looks about right based on the money available for player registrations, signing on fees and salaries.

SDG has earned and deserves another year though it will probably he his last as after 3 years players stop listening and fans always need change as change breeds hope which is what makes clubs like Hibs tick over.

 

[Smurf]

Latest accounts to 30th June 2025 show Turnover which is the income generated from all sources as:

Celtc: £143m
Scotlands Shame 2012: £94m
Puddledrinkers: £25m.
Sheep: £22m.
Hibs: £17m.
Mothers £8m.

Obviously one year in isolation isn't that meaningful but if you were to average out say any 3 years then a similar picture develops.

It's therfore reasonable to conclude that Hibs don't really have a comparable budget to the Puddledrinkers but they do to the Sheep and that Motherwells achievement this season were exceptional, Sheepies were atrocious and how both Celtc and Scotland's Shame 2012 got themselves into such a mess and allowed the Puddledrinkers to get so close was nothing less than extraordinary..

League position over 2 years and 76 games really does give the tale the tape rather than the vagaries of cup draws so for Hibs to finish 3rd and 5th looks about right based on the money available for player registrations, signing on fees and salaries.

SDG has earned and deserves another year though it will probably he his last as after 3 years players stop listening and fans always need change as change breeds hope which is what makes clubs like Hibs tick over.

That's turnover though. How does the actual wage bills compare?

 

[SlovSam]

That's turnover though. How does the actual wage bills compare?

Google and AI is your friend and it needs averaged out over 3 years and you have to understand the accounting concepts of each club.

Not everyone reports wages and salaries the same way and it's hard to differentiate between players, office staff, directors and outsourced or in-house salaries such as those designated to corporate.

Anytime I have tried to do it you tend to still find that raw turnover translates directly to player salaries but there are still many other variables such as how much money the Smucks that get their cheapies from owning clubs punt in on the sly.

The Laddie and his family are quite good at that but I don't follow the other clubs closely enough to compare.

 

[Hammi]

Capology seems to think we've a higher wage bill than Hearts now.