If? We get a new manager

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Hammi said:
Nothing from Hibs suggests he hasn't met a target.
Happy with top 6
Happy with European qualifiers.
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2 years in a row . That is progress. Won at secco and darkheid.
The cups have let him down for sure, and i agree we must see more progress next season. I’m confident we will. Very confident.
The Dunfermline defeat was a sore one, but the two cups prior to that I think both were smellies away.
 
1 Mcnamara said:
2 years in a row . That is progress. Won at secco and darkheid.
The cups have let him down for sure, and i agree we must see more progress next season. I’m confident we will. Very confident.
The Dunfermline defeat was a sore one, but the two cups prior to that I think both were smellies away.
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I still think top 6 is the bare minimum expectation on a Hibs manager.
So top 6 isn't a success, it's the standard.

Europe would've been a boost, if he earned it himself. We scored it through Celtic winning a cup, against a team that put us out.

Our actual chance to qualify for Europe ourselves was wasted. Or not even attempted going off the performance against Motherwell.


So aye, in Hibs eyes, that's progress.
But there's an asterix beside both "achievements" this year for me.

Also, why so confident we'll improve next year? I'm very unconfident in us playing any different or better.
Whole season without a single change makes me concerned.

**I think he starts the season, I'm not calling for his head anymore, but I just don't see us progressing any further.
 
Hammi said:
I still think top 6 is the bare minimum expectation on a Hibs manager.
So top 6 isn't a success, it's the standard.

Europe would've been a boost, if he earned it himself. We scored it through Celtic winning a cup, against a team that put us out.

Our actual chance to qualify for Europe ourselves was wasted. Or not even attempted going off the performance against Motherwell.


So aye, in Hibs eyes, that's progress.
But there's an asterix beside both "achievements" this year for me.

Also, why so confident we'll improve next year? I'm very unconfident in us playing any different or better.
Whole season without a single change makes me concerned.
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I am confident because I believe SDG will improve. It’s a hard trade to learn and stats tell us we are progressing. I agree top 6 should not been seen as a victory for Hibs, but history tells us that 50% of the time we haven’t been doing it for the last 50 years.
I trust SDG team more than i ever did Maloney, Slaver or Montgomery. I don’t care if some folk think nostalgia clouds my judgement. The man who captained us, and scored the winning goal in the SC final deserves our patience and support. If we were hovering around relegation with no sign of progress i may want him binned. But we are not.
 
I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt afa Europe is concerned, cos last season we were desperately unlucky not to get automatic euro football till Xmas cos of fkn Sheep winning the cup v celtc.

We then gave our best performances this season in the qualifying games for both comps and came away with nothing but kudos and last minute worldy goals against.

So getting Europe this year - with a wee bit of luck after celtc v dunfy - is nothing but richly deserved for DG now imo.
 
Hammi said:
Nothing from Hibs suggests he hasn't met a target.
Happy with top 6
Happy with European qualifiers.
Click to expand...
Surely a top 6 finish isn't in the contract it should be 4th at a minimum. Cups have been atrocious as well. European qualifiers are all well and good but it's group stage football we want as a club and I don't believe gray has what it takes to achieve this.
 
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1 Mcnamara said:
I am confident because I believe SDG will improve. It’s a hard trade to learn and stats tell us we are progressing. I agree top 6 should not been seen as a victory for Hibs, but history tells us that 50% of the time we haven’t been doing it for the last 50 years.
I trust SDG team more than i ever did Maloney, Slaver or Montgomery. I don’t care if some folk think nostalgia clouds my judgement. The man who captained us, and scored the winning goal in the SC final deserves our patience and support. If we were hovering around relegation with no sign of progress i may want him binned. But we are not.
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I was confident last season, fully, but that's because visible evidence of improvement was there week in week out, despite results.
What stats tell us we're progressing this season? Point totals are fine, but when you look at the rest of the league, there were more points up for grabs, because there were more points lost by the other teams.

I do trust Sir Dave and the team more than any of those others mentioned. And it's no nostalgia.


HaarlemShuffler said:
I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt afa Europe is concerned, cos last season we were desperately unlucky not to get automatic euro football till Xmas cos of fkn Sheep winning the cup v celtc.

We then gave our best performances this season in the qualifying games for both comps and came away with nothing but kudos and last minute worldy goals against.

So getting Europe this year - with a wee bit of luck after celtc v dunfy - is nothing but richly deserved for DG now imo.
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It's not unlucky to get the spot we got. Because that's the spot we earned.

Agree on the second paragraph though, fully.

And the last, I'm not sure why it's deserved. We finished 5th and someone else won the cup. We didn't deserve it.
He had the chance to go put Motherwell to the sword and didn't take it.

Getting Europe is a bonus, not earned this year for me.
 
HibeeHibernia said:
Surely a top 6 finish isn't in the contract it should be 4th at a minimum. Cups have been atrocious as well. European qualifiers are all well and good but it's group stage football we want as a club and I don't believe gray has what it takes to achieve this.
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Not really disagreeing with that. Personally

But the club themselves have promoted consecutive top 6 finishes and European qualifiers as a good result.
They're the ones making the targets.
 
hibbybilly said:
Europe would have been a target, a target we reached. We finished in 5th place, we earned that.
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Europe isn't awarded to a 5th place finish.
If your target is Europe, then you have to aim for top 4. You can't run the whole season relying on one of the bigots winning the cup.

Last season being a prime example, we thought we'd have euro football until the winter because of Celtic, and we didn't.

Should only rely on ourselves.
 
hibbybilly said:
It is if the champions win the cup.
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It's passed on, not earned.
I don't see the appeal.

It's fine if you disagree, the games are the same as a 4th place finish. (This season at least)

But for me, there's a difference.
 
HibeeHibernia said:
Surely a top 6 finish isn't in the contract it should be 4th at a minimum.... I don't believe gray has what it takes to achieve this.
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We've finished 4th or better 9 times in the last 50 years.
"Aye, but....investment...we're Hibs...we should be..."
Aye.
I'm sure we should.
If I was asked to manage a golf outfit whose members had broken 320 nine times in the last fifty "4 man team" events and I was told getting players to break 80 was the "minimum" requirement, my answer would be short.
If I was asked to manage a darts team who'd collectively averaged 60+ nine times in their last fifty events and I was told that sub-25-dart legs were the "minimum" requirement, my answer would be short.
Just sayin', likesay.
 
The lack of a Marcellus Wallace "unrealistic muthafukkas" GIF in the available selection is disappointing.

Would anyone on here take a job where a contractual obligation to reach a performance level matched less than 20% of the time was a requirement?🤔

Short of Travis Kalanick or Will Shu taking over a football club, no football manager will be asked to sign a contract of that nature any time soon.
 
Hammi said:
I'd want us with someone else but he's no a 50/50
Even for me, sacking him is harsh. I want him to get offered a decent job and takes it.


I just don't see him doing anything different going forward, will cost him long term if he doesn't start getting more from the team.
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This is where I am.

He doesn't seem to be able to change from the slow, slow build-up, which is not only boring but ponderous and dangerous, or cutting out regularly made mistakes, such as switching off in the final minutes of games. His substitutions don't appear to be tactical but rather swapping players for the sake of it, and often the choices are quite bizarre. I'll throw in his habit of not letting players loose using some theory that they need time to bed in, rather than doing what every other manager does and putting them on the park. Perhaps he's right, and all the rest are wrong, but I doubt it.
 
Hammi said:
Not really disagreeing with that. Personally

But the club themselves have promoted consecutive top 6 finishes and European qualifiers as a good result.
They're the ones making the targets.
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Very true mate but I was always under the impression from the Gordon's that group stage European football was the main goal I think this might be his saving grace if he somehow manages to get us to that via the qualifiers which will solidify him as arguably our greatest manager, footballs a funny old sport like. Can't see it though 😂
 
Glenmore Road said:
We've finished 4th or better 9 times in the last 50 years.
"Aye, but....investment...we're Hibs...we should be..."
Aye.
I'm sure we should.
If I was asked to manage a golf outfit whose members had broken 320 nine times in the last fifty "4 man team" events and I was told getting players to break 80 was the "minimum" requirement, my answer would be short.
If I was asked to manage a darts team who'd collectively averaged 60+ nine times in their last fifty events and I was told that sub-25-dart legs were the "minimum" requirement, my answer would be short.
Just sayin', likesay.
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I dinni think our underachievement as a football club should be used as an excuse to continue to employ managers mate we should be aiming as high as we can and we should always be looking to improve ourselves as a club. Gray has brought stability and he should be congratuled and celebrated for doing so but I would be disappointed if we aren't looking at better managers to take us to the next level.
 
Dub said:
This is where I am.

He doesn't seem to be able to change from the slow, slow build-up, which is not only boring but ponderous and dangerous, or cutting out regularly made mistakes, such as switching off in the final minutes of games. His substitutions don't appear to be tactical but rather swapping players for the sake of it, and often the choices are quite bizarre. I'll throw in his habit of not letting players loose using some theory that they need time to bed in, rather than doing what every other manager does and putting them on the park. Perhaps he's right, and all the rest are wrong, but I doubt it.
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Great post mate 👍
 
Dub said:
This is where I am.

He doesn't seem to be able to change from the slow, slow build-up, which is not only boring but ponderous and dangerous, or cutting out regularly made mistakes, such as switching off in the final minutes of games. His substitutions don't appear to be tactical but rather swapping players for the sake of it, and often the choices are quite bizarre. I'll throw in his habit of not letting players loose using some theory that they need time to bed in, rather than doing what every other manager does and putting them on the park. Perhaps he's right, and all the rest are wrong, but I doubt it.
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What you've just said has been said my many people on many occasions on here . If he wasn't DG most would be wanting him gone lets face it
 
HibeeHibernia said:
I dinni think our underachievement as a football club should be used as an excuse to continue to employ managers mate we should be aiming as high as we can and we should always be looking to improve ourselves as a club. Gray has brought stability and he should be congratuled and celebrated for doing so but I would be disappointed if we aren't looking at better managers to take us to the next level.
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How would changing manager improve ourselves?

I do not wish to keep repeating myself but, on every available statistic, metric or trend, punting Gray carries around a 65% to 70% chance of a decrease in our performance levels.

Of course the next Guardiola is out there. Somewhere. We may appoint someone from the Philippines, Taiwan or American Samoa who turns out to be just that man. It's possible.

Where would we look?
On what basis do we decide which prospective Hibs managers would be a good fit for Scottish football in general and Hibs especially?
We don't have a great track record of appointing Jock Stein level coaches & managers.
 
Glenmore Road said:
How would changing manager improve ourselves?

I do not wish to keep repeating myself but, on every available statistic, metric or trend, punting Gray carries around a 65% to 70% chance of a decrease in our performance levels.

Of course the next Guardiola is out there. Somewhere. We may appoint someone from the Philippines, Taiwan or American Samoa who turns out to be just that man. It's possible.

Where would we look?
On what basis do we decide which prospective Hibs managers would be a good fit for Scottish football in general and Hibs especially?
We don't have a great track record of appointing Jock Stein level coaches & managers.
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So if/when Dave leaves, how we gonna survive? Just resign ourselves to more bottom 6 football, or are we allowed to expect more from them too?
 
Hammi said:
So if/when Dave leaves, how we gonna survive? Just resign ourselves to more bottom 6 football, or are we allowed to expect more from them too?
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Motherwell did ok after sacking their previous manager
 
Glenmore Road said:
How would changing manager improve ourselves?

I do not wish to keep repeating myself but, on every available statistic, metric or trend, punting Gray carries around a 65% to 70% chance of a decrease in our performance levels.

Of course the next Guardiola is out there. Somewhere. We may appoint someone from the Philippines, Taiwan or American Samoa who turns out to be just that man. It's possible.

Where would we look?
On what basis do we decide which prospective Hibs managers would be a good fit for Scottish football in general and Hibs especially?
We don't have a great track record of appointing Jock Stein level coaches & managers.
Click to expand...
So we just stick with mediocrity and never expand our horizons because we've been underachievers for most of our history? Motherwell have just proved if you cast the net out wide enough you can get a high level manager for peanuts. We have a dinosaur running our football department who doesn't even recruit players based on the archaic system we're trying to play with. We should be doing so much better as a football club in this league with the financial advantages we have at our disposal.
 
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1 Mcnamara said:
Let’s just get behind SDG and be thankful that we have a man in charge who is moving us in the right direction.
We have done too many LH turns followed by RH turns which have left us up a dead end which means we have to reverse back to where we were before .
Hibs are going in the right direction. Have faith in SDG, the man deserves our support and he will keep getting better, but only with our backing.
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100%

I think if we’re looking to push onto the next level we need to qualify for Europe three years in a row, four, five and then string together wins, our coefficient goes up, we get better seeding, we win more games, we get more money.

SDG has delivered this, and changing managers could really mess this up. The squad is evolving so we don’t need a wholesale turnover in staff.

I think our coefficient is now 7.000 - Partizan Belgrade and Legia wildly exceed us. So we don’t need to fear anyone.
 
1 Mcnamara said:
2 years in a row . That is progress. Won at secco and darkheid.
The cups have let him down for sure, and i agree we must see more progress next season. I’m confident we will. Very confident.
The Dunfermline defeat was a sore one, but the two cups prior to that I think both were smellies away.
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You really do have to take our budget into account.

Were kind of moneyballing....but league position is important.

Were lucky Celtic won the cup,and its probably better than being 4th.

Our Noisy Neighbours were fighting for the league...and we had the same pedestrian shit!


I love Sir David Gray,he brought me one of the happiest times in my life.


Bit he either learns tactics,is more ruthless...and has a plan B!

Or our relationship has to end.
 
Dub said:
This is where I am.

He doesn't seem to be able to change from the slow, slow build-up, which is not only boring but ponderous and dangerous, or cutting out regularly made mistakes, such as switching off in the final minutes of games. His substitutions don't appear to be tactical but rather swapping players for the sake of it, and often the choices are quite bizarre. I'll throw in his habit of not letting players loose using some theory that they need time to bed in, rather than doing what every other manager does and putting them on the park. Perhaps he's right, and all the rest are wrong, but I doubt it.
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Agree with all you have just said.
And that’s why he is 50/50 chance of staying or going.
 
I'm genuinely amazed that he's got the support he has.... Of course 10 years ago he cemented himself as an absolute legend. He's overall done no better than OK on the metrics. Success is top 6 with the unprecedented investment? I don't think so. Domestic cup competition in his two seasons has been disastrous. The 17 game run and European adventure has certainly helped his case for the defence of his tenure. However, the final game of the season supposedly a "Cup final" at home to Motherwell gave the proof of where we are. We were brutal. I fear that we are on a downward trajectory with DG determined to persist with this percentage football and eye bleeding football. It's going to end ugly in the autumn I fear with another season written off.
 
Smurf said:
I'm genuinely amazed that he's got the support he has.... Of course 10 years ago he cemented himself as an absolute legend. He's overall done no better than OK on the metrics. Success is top 6 with the unprecedented investment? I don't think so. Domestic cup competition in his two seasons has been disastrous. The 17 game run and European adventure has certainly helped his case for the defence of his tenure. However, the final game of the season supposedly a "Cup final" at home to Motherwell gave the proof of where we are. We were brutal. I fear that we are on a downward trajectory with DG determined to persist with this percentage football and eye bleeding football. It's going to end ugly in the autumn I fear with another season written off.
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He's got the support he has because of who he is Smurf. If he was any other manager he would have been emptied after the derby defeat in split. He'll get the start of this season but I doubt he'll see it out if we keep playing the way we are. The fans turned on Jack Ross for less.
 
"Looks back at the average level of stunning mediocrity over the last 30 years...."

I really don't want to be back on the carousel ride we had prior to SDG actually. If you sack a manager then you really have to be able to find someone better and that seems to be a serious problem. Half our issues over the last couple of years is poor signings by a succession of managers and taking several years to clear them out not to mention the awful performances by said managers.

A lot of this is because Hearts just came within a whisker of the title, and there is no way that is being repeated, and it is a sore one but being Scottish football they may end up relegated next season as their team is split up and they cannot handle Euro football and the league with a bare bones squad. No way are they going to be able to repeat this and it is a freak situation and they rode their luck heavily against two unusually weak OF sides. They also did not have Euro football this season so kept their squad fresher in the early part of the season.

Seeing as we have a ceiling as to both the quality of player we can attract and the size of the 1st Team squad we can manage without destroying the budget we should be aiming at between 3rd and 4th consistently. This is the main thing for us, being consistently top 4 or 5 when previously we have yoyo'd between third and bottom 6 which is not healthy at all. The OF will not allow this season to happen again so if other teams are playing well we have a competition on for the 3rd spot and other clubs are quite capable and of similar resources to us realistically. The poor standard of officials will also cost points.

It is not about accepting it is looking around and being realistic about the situation in Scottish football and football in general. Scotland is very much a backwater and there is little money outside the OF and better players will vote with their pay packages.

I think the biggest thing I am annoyed with is the lack of youth team players making the grade with the huge investment in the training centre etc. Also the signing of certain players and then them seemingly being frozen out, I want to see no favourites and players selected on form and impact, maybe a bit too much loyalty is shown to certain people. A bit more adventurous play sometimes and big work on the defence as late goals were our problem, fitness might help as well. Remember the team under John Collins? Fitter then everyone else and able to use that as an advantage late in games, shame the "professionals" at the time didn't like it.
 
Hammi said:
Nothing from Hibs suggests he hasn't met a target.
Happy with top 6
Happy with European qualifiers.
Click to expand...
I also don’t think we would change manager for finishing 5th if the ultimate target was top 4 - especially the way things panned out this year with Bowie, injuries, Hearts & Well having seasons of their life. We would have finished top 4 if we didn’t have that run of games we had players sent off. Those experienced players really let the club down.
 
HibeeHibernia said:
He's got the support he has because of who he is Smurf. If he was any other manager he would have been emptied after the derby defeat in split. He'll get the start of this season but I doubt he'll see it out if we keep playing the way we are. The fans turned on Jack Ross for less.
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Hes getting the backing cos he deserves it. The cup win was fucking ten years ago man let it go.
 
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Purple & Green said:
1.5 points a game in the top league over two seasons - probably one to compare with history as I suspect it’s phenomenal compared to the last 25 years
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How does the level of investment in the squad the last few years, hence the huge losses, compare?

David Gray has been the recipient of huge financial support from the ownership and board for player recruitment.
 
Smurf said:
How does the level of investment in the squad the last few years, hence the huge losses, compare?

David Gray has been the recipient of huge financial support from the ownership and board for player recruitment.
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This huge financial support has gone now. Do you still put us in the bracket of 3rd place team is a must?
 
I would like to, once again, point to what has been the norm for Hibs over the previous 30 years. How many 3rd places compared to relegations?

It is the YOYO that needs beating first. Consistency needs to be the target.
 
Hibs Soldier said:
What P&G says. Incredible from Hibs tbh.
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Jack Ross was 1.47 points per game.
David Gray is 1.52 points per game.

Personally I don't think DG maintains they stats on his percentage football moving into next season. And I don't think for too much longer we accept being played off the park by teams like Falkirk & Motherwell who have much less resources but are just better coached.
 
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