egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
the obvious answer methinks...
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ections-being-stolen-police-forces-claims-mps
downing st announcement 11.15....
- Thread starter Kenny
- Start date
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ections-being-stolen-police-forces-claims-mps
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
Running scared? WTF are you on about Kenny. I sometimes think you are being deliberately obtuse. I doubt the SNP have an awful lot to be scared about to be honest so perhaps turn the question inward to the party you support and ask yourself why the lily livered bunch of so called opposition party members have forgotten what the word "opposition" is supposed to mean. As I said before, Turkeys voting for xmas. The way to stop the Tories, assuming they can be stopped, would surely have been to vote against the motion or abstain from voting so that it couldnt pass , leaving the Tories in power where their MPs under suspicion of election fraud could be taken to task and possibly removed from their constituencies. Labour however chose to do what Labour always seem to choose to do now and that is meekly accept what the Tories want them to accept. It's fukking pitiful and even more so that you are somehow trying to make this all about the SNP.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2005
I'm just so used to you continually having a dig. You started this convo on a "Why did the SNP abstain" so the natural assumption was that you were still banging that drum. I don't defend the SNP at all costs incidentally, there is a lot they get wrong but given the choices they are the best option for Scotland right now. As soon as we get Indy I am hoping for a strong socialist party to emerge so that I can vote for them instead.
Jack
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2007
I was surprised at how agitated Jeremy Corbyn was at the conference in Aviemore today as he spoke about Scotland and the SNP, he really became quite animated.
I don't think he has any great love for Scotland anyway but has the 40 seats he and the Scottish branch lost at the last election seared a hole through his heart? His fired up triad might have been better aimed at the Torys or even sparked a bit of passion when he spoke about the policies the audience nearly fell asleep at as he droned on talking about them.
Shame really. I think/thought there's more about him.
I don't think he has any great love for Scotland anyway but has the 40 seats he and the Scottish branch lost at the last election seared a hole through his heart? His fired up triad might have been better aimed at the Torys or even sparked a bit of passion when he spoke about the policies the audience nearly fell asleep at as he droned on talking about them.
Shame really. I think/thought there's more about him.
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
He feels so passionate about it his contribution in the referendum 2014 was sweet FA.
Kenny
Private Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2003
Radio scotland covered stuc with labour and snp with anti tory soundbites.... some decent solid labour soundbites. JC offering more but both offering positive visions.
No tory voice as they chose to put nobody up expecting JC to embarrass himself....this was reported as such.
The TV made it a 3 way everyone hates everyone and then a late soundbite by Ruth rape clause davidson was added in at the end....all soundbites negative, any policy related stuff dropped.
Tories firmly control the narative and bring everything back to .
No means no nicola.
JC isn't a leader.
Shoogly coalition.
And that's it. No policy. Maybe brexit means brexit is a policy... doubt that it is though.
No tory voice as they chose to put nobody up expecting JC to embarrass himself....this was reported as such.
The TV made it a 3 way everyone hates everyone and then a late soundbite by Ruth rape clause davidson was added in at the end....all soundbites negative, any policy related stuff dropped.
Tories firmly control the narative and bring everything back to .
No means no nicola.
JC isn't a leader.
Shoogly coalition.
And that's it. No policy. Maybe brexit means brexit is a policy... doubt that it is though.
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
It's looking far far worse for Labour than most ever feared....
In Scotland finishing outwith the top two is now a certainty. The Tories now firmly established as the opposition to the SNP.
In Wales again it's looking likely that Labour will finish behind the Tories. This is pretty incredible...
And in the Midlands the Tories look like hammering Labour in the critical marginals.
The polling experts keep saying that Labour will not totally collapse as in their safe seats there would need to be a swing of around 10% against them. However, I think we will see a complete collapse in the Labour vote...
Obviously of course this is all the fault of pragmatic social democrats in Labour and nothing to do with the hopeless leadership of Corbyn and his hard left agenda.
In Scotland finishing outwith the top two is now a certainty. The Tories now firmly established as the opposition to the SNP.
In Wales again it's looking likely that Labour will finish behind the Tories. This is pretty incredible...
And in the Midlands the Tories look like hammering Labour in the critical marginals.
The polling experts keep saying that Labour will not totally collapse as in their safe seats there would need to be a swing of around 10% against them. However, I think we will see a complete collapse in the Labour vote...
Obviously of course this is all the fault of pragmatic social democrats in Labour and nothing to do with the hopeless leadership of Corbyn and his hard left agenda.
egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
It's a remarkable achievement but to be fair to Corbyn I think there is a fundamental implosion resulting from Labour's paralysing dilemma as to who they represent, which is a wider issue.
Looks like UKIP are going into the night but their vote is being hoovered up by May, which is ultimately a net gain from Labour. The Libdems look to be grabbing the middle class liberals and globalism supporters who can't stomach the Tories. Meanwhile, this dilemma makes any attempt to regain Scotland a non starter; labour are a unionist party yet one gets the impression that Scottish unionists are probably the kind of people they despise more than most (and they despise a lot of people).
Do you think Corbyn will have the balls to stay on even if they are routed (I wouldn't rule out, btw, a far better than projected showing) ?
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
The sensible folk within Labour appear determined for Corbyn to have everything in the Labour manifesto that he wants. So it's his. He owns it and he can be responsible for the inevitable hammering.
I'm sure though they'll convince themselves afterwards that if they just kick out the Blairites then the country will soon see their logic so I expect him to stay on.
Depends what instructions are given to Seamus Milne and what he then instructs Corbyn to do.
egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
Mmm. Who do you view as instructing Milne ?
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
I view him as someone who loathes this country so who knows.
He certainly enjoys drinking champagne with Len McCluskey who will ultimately decide on the fate of comrade Corbyn...
egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
I except more than a few of the flag wavers will be critics of radiohead playing in Israel.
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
Indeed...
Still there's a high number in the tent having a big one way conversation convincing themselves they are carrying the country with them....
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
As i said before I am not great on politics, I have watched Corbyn though and he does appear to be quite a geniune guy who wants the best for the working classes and seems quite green on many issues. However he does not inspire. I know that the loudest shouter does not mean they make the best politician/leader, however he has to have his voice above the noise of other parties. I cannot see the labour party winning anything with him as he has the charisma of Mr Bean cardboard cut out. Does make me wonder why with Scotland having been so socially motivated in the past that another party has not been created to voice these opinions. I had forgotten all about the SSP but I see they are still around, but do not seem to have captured the imagination of the public. Jim Murphy of course does not support independence so would lose out to SNP on that front, however there is still just over 50% of the Scottish public who voted against independence who they should be targeting, though many of these will be Tory supporters. `I reckon there would need to be a greater Socialist party who would represent the whole of UK in order to make inroads to both the old Labour vote, and in persuading new and lapsed voters there is some different way. But right now Labour are going nowhere, and seeing as JC is close to his 68th birthday, perhaps it is time he drew his pension.
Maybe I am missing the point though, if he has gained so much internal support for his views, then perhaps Labour really are following their original ideals, and so no need for a further socialist party which would surely conclude either, JC has not the political wisdom to make a real challenge for goverment, or the people of the UK simply have turned their back on traditional socialism
Maybe I am missing the point though, if he has gained so much internal support for his views, then perhaps Labour really are following their original ideals, and so no need for a further socialist party which would surely conclude either, JC has not the political wisdom to make a real challenge for goverment, or the people of the UK simply have turned their back on traditional socialism
egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
[MENTION=2703]Davy[/MENTION] quite interested in how you see Corbyn wanting the best for the working class. Perhaps he does in the way that, along with every miss world winner, I would like to see world peace and an end to hunger. But what do you see him offering practical terms? I think the answer for many is: less than zero - i.e. he is actively hostile to the interests of most.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
About fuckin time that **** took anything remotely approaching a hiding in the media.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
It's quite amazing how she expects to be able to fight a campaign based on how she has been doing it. However, she knows she comfortably can because bottom line is this GE is "Who do you most trust to negotiate Brexit in the national interest? May or Corbyn?".
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
Thats a big part of his problem EGB, he states he wants to work for everyone and make a more equal society. But his policies have not come across as to how he would do it. Hence why I said he needs to shout louder..to make his policies and ideas known. I see him very much as an idealist but he is not gett6ing his message across as to how anything will be achieved. Sadly I very much see this election from a Scottish perspective as Tories V Snp...but not because of policies, rather both sides making a point whether or not they want another referendum. That is a pretty sad state of affairs for electing new MPs. But, and I can only speak for myself, I am disillusioned firstly by politics as a whole, secondly by the lack of anyone out there who seems to be able to make a real difference for low paid workers and lastly by the spiteful nature of all sides arguing, particularly the supporters who will not listen at all to the other side but blank out all that is said rather than have sensible discussion and dialogue, and God forbid it, working together
Kenny
Private Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2003
Prime Minister Theresa May visits Cornwall ahead of General Election | Cornwall Live
- - - Updated - - -
I do wonder where the tipping point is though. with expectation of a 150 majority....how far south of 100 seats does it need to fall for the snap GE project to be tainted.
the EU negotiations leaks also don't really help the "I'm so sh1t-hot at brexit" line....
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
She's most certainly going to get a huge majority. I think though why the rush into the GE before the Council elections?
southfieldhibby
Private Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2002
Labour are doing everything possible to ruin any tiny chance of gaining momentum. Dianne Abbot on LBC today is one of the cringiest things you'll see.
Diane Abbotts Agonising Interview Over Police Policy Cost - LBC
Diane Abbotts Agonising Interview Over Police Policy Cost - LBC
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
I've fair enjoyed her pain today. She is one smug cow. Her along with Emily Thornberry are two snobs that pretend to be sticking up for the working class.
She shagged Corbyn many years ago. Tells me even more about the dud Corbyn pumping that...
southfieldhibby
Private Member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2002
They are pretty brutal, and quite unprepared for on the spot scrutiny. But at least they put themselves up, I guess May would be just as shite if she ever did the same.
The Barrow Labour MP on Daily Politics earlier said no way will Labour win, no way would I ever vote for Corbyn. What a shit state of affairs for an opposition party.
egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
She is the most popular PM for donkeys years according to surveys. It's been handed to her on a silver platter. The establishment media think they're being smart getting wired in on the complexities of brexit and every misstep along the way. I suspect the English people see this as Scots do all the similar brickbats aimed at Indy; they see the massed ranks of vested interest firing everything they have in defence of the status quo, a woman stoically getting on with pursuing what people have asked for at the ballot box and 'alternatives' to both of those being a bunch of university campus fantasists.
It's no wonder May is tracking Sturgeon's stellar popularity.
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
I agree. I just think she's making herself look ridiculous by not really being in a campaign. No morning media conferences as you used to get in the old days. No real voter engagement. And no TV debates. The tactic is obviously for the campaign to be about Corbyn and his mob and watch them self destruct. I just think she needs to outline a wee bit more of her vision. But I suppose there's no need to. A huge landslide is assured thanks to the madness of Labour.
Kenny
Private Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2003
might change when the manifesto promises or lack thereof happen.
if she is assured a win she wont be putting in anything she has to u-turn on later, as such that could easily unravel - ie. no NHS ring fencing, no pension triple lock, no tax freezes.... all those things will need defending.
egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
I don't think she is a good debater / speaker, knows it, doesn't have the male impulse to willy wave regardless, doesn't - as you say - need to do anything. It'll be jezza wot won it; and labour generally tbf - hard to imagine an electable alternative at this juncture though not hard to imagine alternatives that would get nowhere near such a routing.
jock3
Private Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2012
Theresa May is gambling, based on the opinion polls, that she will be able to increase the Tories' currently puny majority. She wants to try and buttress the Tory government against the coming class storms that even she can see on the horizon. May hopes to win an increased majority by appealing to workers that only the Tories can negotiate a Brexit deal in 'Britain's' interests, but she is only interested in negotiating a deal in the interests of Britain's big business. In fact a major factor in her calling the election now is in the hope that she can then avoid a general election for five years - because she knows full well that any Brexit deal she negotiates will mean increased misery for the majority.
But hers is a very high-risk strategy. If Corbyn leads a fighting campaign there is every chance that May could end in June!
A clear anti-austerity programme - in the interests of the working class - should also define the Labour manifesto's approach to Brexit. Corbyn is of course correct to say they would rip up May's negotiating plans and start again. Workers who voted for Brexit did so primarily because they were in revolt against all the misery they have suffered over the last decade. Jeremy should make clear that he is fighting for a Brexit in the interests of the working and middle class majority.
But hers is a very high-risk strategy. If Corbyn leads a fighting campaign there is every chance that May could end in June!
A clear anti-austerity programme - in the interests of the working class - should also define the Labour manifesto's approach to Brexit. Corbyn is of course correct to say they would rip up May's negotiating plans and start again. Workers who voted for Brexit did so primarily because they were in revolt against all the misery they have suffered over the last decade. Jeremy should make clear that he is fighting for a Brexit in the interests of the working and middle class majority.
egb_hibs
Private Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
[MENTION=13759]jock3[/MENTION]
Labour look set to be buried, and perhaps ended as a party. If they are they will be mourned only by the upper middle class, public sector management, those with hateful racial or sectarian agendas to foment, and a few old serfs who either intrinsically prefer serving their betters or are too long in the tooth to envisage alternatives.
In the short term, lack of effective opposition may hurt those who have been battered and hounded into dependency and had racist or bigot screamed at them if they ever complained.
But those people seem increasingly willing to take the pain of weaning themselves off the drug dealer's pitch which is all labour have to offer them. The sun is setting on an era where the left establishment got to define virtue as pummelling people into broken, atomised dependency, then throwing other people's money at the damage.
Labour look set to be buried, and perhaps ended as a party. If they are they will be mourned only by the upper middle class, public sector management, those with hateful racial or sectarian agendas to foment, and a few old serfs who either intrinsically prefer serving their betters or are too long in the tooth to envisage alternatives.
In the short term, lack of effective opposition may hurt those who have been battered and hounded into dependency and had racist or bigot screamed at them if they ever complained.
But those people seem increasingly willing to take the pain of weaning themselves off the drug dealer's pitch which is all labour have to offer them. The sun is setting on an era where the left establishment got to define virtue as pummelling people into broken, atomised dependency, then throwing other people's money at the damage.
Kenny
Private Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2003
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
Sorry to be the one that bursts yer bubble, Jock, but someone has to. Ready?:
It's not 1936 any more.
Indeed. Nothing to mourn, either.
bigmanandy
Aulder Than The Internet This Radge
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2006
She's just ensuring she has more time to screw everyone over while making a packet.
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
Bloody hell...