Corbers sacks Benn and Gove mugs off Boris
- Thread starter egb_hibs
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
Benn reportedly phoning around Shadow Cabinet ministers this weekend organising a coup. All very predictable. The irony of course is not Corbyn's approach to the referendum campaign, though any excuse will do for Blairites , but their complete misunderstood the nature of the vote. This was to a large extent a vote against the political establishment - the very same political establishment that right-wing Labour MPs represent. Treacherous bassa deserves it.
BIG G
BIG G
1875
LEGENDARY RADGE
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- Jul 17, 2003
I didnt think Benn was either right wing or a Blairite, he does appear sleakit though?
egb_hibs
Private Member
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- Jul 2, 2002
Just been listening to an unbelievably out of touch Kevin McKenna of the guardian and some lawyer pundit on radio Scotland spraffing on about a coup by the Islington middle class while Corbyn is more in touch with the disenfranchised leave vote. "Er, he lives in Islington" the host was forced to point out. Meanwhile we were told at the same time these people had not be listening and they had no alternative to labour in the past. Clearly not been listening to the millions gone to UKIP then.
And herein lies labour's problem; neither side has got a clue, and debating who is closest to the people is on a par with debating which star apart from the sun is closest to earth; one of them will be, but it's not very close at all really.
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Meanwhile, all the swell or left wing outrage at leave continues to strike and odd note as EU big nobs start to pontificate. The Dutch foreign minister reckons brexit happens because our benefits system is too generous: http://news.sky.com/story/1717464/benefits-to-blame-for-brexit-dutch-minister
The moral righteousness engendered by voting for global capitalism and its agenda are really quite odd.
What a clusterfuck. Get ready for nationalism across Europe - the latter day Weimar, as I used to describe them, that run the show have totally fcked it. This is not fixable any time soon and it will get worse before it gets better. When 'progressive' poltics becomes more concerned with non binary gendered toitlets than the plight of the marginalised whose captive votes they assume, we have arrived at the decadence phase of the civilisational lifecycle. History is highly suggestive of what happens at that point.
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Everybody is right wing when looked at from the Corbyn camp!
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New Labour did the damage though K. The Labour Party is almost entirely a middle class left liberal concern now; so much so that the only alternative faction is the cranky middle class Marxism that ha ps fulminated on the back benches forever. New labour era also made American style culture wars a part of British life, and as part of that made it acceptable for the traditional labour vote to be slandered and demonised. As I said to you at the time the short, medium and long term damage they wrought is incalculable. Part of that legacy now looks like it could be an isolated England and a Scotland, the latter forced into the euro if it joins the Eu as a new entrant, and with that, destruction.
And herein lies labour's problem; neither side has got a clue, and debating who is closest to the people is on a par with debating which star apart from the sun is closest to earth; one of them will be, but it's not very close at all really.
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Meanwhile, all the swell or left wing outrage at leave continues to strike and odd note as EU big nobs start to pontificate. The Dutch foreign minister reckons brexit happens because our benefits system is too generous: http://news.sky.com/story/1717464/benefits-to-blame-for-brexit-dutch-minister
The moral righteousness engendered by voting for global capitalism and its agenda are really quite odd.
What a clusterfuck. Get ready for nationalism across Europe - the latter day Weimar, as I used to describe them, that run the show have totally fcked it. This is not fixable any time soon and it will get worse before it gets better. When 'progressive' poltics becomes more concerned with non binary gendered toitlets than the plight of the marginalised whose captive votes they assume, we have arrived at the decadence phase of the civilisational lifecycle. History is highly suggestive of what happens at that point.
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Everybody is right wing when looked at from the Corbyn camp!
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New Labour did the damage though K. The Labour Party is almost entirely a middle class left liberal concern now; so much so that the only alternative faction is the cranky middle class Marxism that ha ps fulminated on the back benches forever. New labour era also made American style culture wars a part of British life, and as part of that made it acceptable for the traditional labour vote to be slandered and demonised. As I said to you at the time the short, medium and long term damage they wrought is incalculable. Part of that legacy now looks like it could be an isolated England and a Scotland, the latter forced into the euro if it joins the Eu as a new entrant, and with that, destruction.
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
Heidi Alexander the shadow health secretary and certainly no blairite has resigned.
Suggestions that with the shadow cabinet to resign in large numbers, PLP to declare no confidence in his leadership then they'll vote for their own leader in the House of Commons should he still refuse to go.
The militant wing of Labour will say they have no right to do this but it is Labour MP's voted by their constituents who have the democratic mandate.
There could be a GE soon and Labour needs to sort itself out as a genuine alternative government in waiting.
Suggestions that with the shadow cabinet to resign in large numbers, PLP to declare no confidence in his leadership then they'll vote for their own leader in the House of Commons should he still refuse to go.
The militant wing of Labour will say they have no right to do this but it is Labour MP's voted by their constituents who have the democratic mandate.
There could be a GE soon and Labour needs to sort itself out as a genuine alternative government in waiting.
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- Jun 27, 2002
That's a bit of a jump smurf [emoji848]
I'm struggling to see how these shenanigans against a democratically elected leader is going to make them more electable.
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I'm struggling to see how these shenanigans against a democratically elected leader is going to make them more electable.
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egb_hibs
Private Member
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- Jul 2, 2002
Because Corbyn is utterly the opposite of what will bring back the disappearing vote, and is also hapless and incompetent as an administrator. Of course the prosecco progressives are also the opposite of what will bring back the voters but at least people don't piss themselves at the thought of some of these other people tangling with Angela Merkel or Vladimir Putin. But labour are miles and miles away from recognising their problem - that the things that both the liberals and the Marxists hold in common and hold most dearly, are their problem. They are just lucky we don't have PR.
Anyhow, next domino falls - Gloria Del Piero resigns.
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- Jun 27, 2002
Murray resigned too
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egb_hibs
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- Jul 2, 2002
And with the gunts departure goes representation of Scotland in the shadow cabinet.
egb_hibs
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The thing is, Brexit could be an enormous opportunity for Labour if it could reconnect with its original purpose. While we were in the EU labour couldn't contest things dear to thr liberal and left elites who control it. Now, if they could find a leader who could exhibit and be;
- resistance to global capitalism while not succumbing to potty and antediluvian Marxism
- unapologetic British patriotism, minus the xenophobia of others but unequivocally putting the British worker first
- resistant to the tightening spiral of PC lunacy which has shafted the working class and is on the way to shafting the whole western world, without tipping into the vengeful mood that is fast growing and needs defused
- can be realistic with people about the unsustainability of where we are, addressing all elements rather than what suits the interests of arts luvvies and tenured academics
...then labour would walk to power and establish a template for pulling other countries back from the brink of a lot worse.
The questions are;
A) can the PLP find - does it stil contain - a socially conservative, patriotic, social democratic moderate of the kind that made labour great
B) does the labour establishment care sufficiently about the plight of the working class and indeed free society to turn its back on 1%er enabling poltiical correctness and mental 70s retro politics.
I fear we know the answers and thus oblivion waits.
- resistance to global capitalism while not succumbing to potty and antediluvian Marxism
- unapologetic British patriotism, minus the xenophobia of others but unequivocally putting the British worker first
- resistant to the tightening spiral of PC lunacy which has shafted the working class and is on the way to shafting the whole western world, without tipping into the vengeful mood that is fast growing and needs defused
- can be realistic with people about the unsustainability of where we are, addressing all elements rather than what suits the interests of arts luvvies and tenured academics
...then labour would walk to power and establish a template for pulling other countries back from the brink of a lot worse.
The questions are;
A) can the PLP find - does it stil contain - a socially conservative, patriotic, social democratic moderate of the kind that made labour great
B) does the labour establishment care sufficiently about the plight of the working class and indeed free society to turn its back on 1%er enabling poltiical correctness and mental 70s retro politics.
I fear we know the answers and thus oblivion waits.
egb_hibs
Private Member
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- Jul 2, 2002
The people she scorned have spoken now.
egb_hibs
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- Jul 2, 2002
I'm not massively into politics but can someone explain why Corbyn was elected as party leader if most of his colleagues dinnae like him?
As far as I can gather, the students union mentality that pervades the party - most of its big nobs seemingly gone straight from there into politics - led people to decide it would be a good idea to add an old communist dinosaur into the hat so as to 'broaden the debate'; they wanted different points of view 'represented', ie given an airing then ignored (much like they have treated their electorate over recent decades).
With all the worldliness and judgement they displayed while ruining the country, they failed to consider this move in the context of party rules which allowed anyone to sign up and vote for leader, as long as they coughed up £3. The internet being one of the few redoubts where socially awkward enthusiasts of a conspiracy theory politics hang out in number, an inexorable logic then played out: Jezza was returned to power by angry men in lonely bedrooms, dungeons and Dragons fans and two lesbian activists named Saffron and Boudicca.
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Lillian Greenwood gone, Lucy Powell gone.
Wonder if all the women are going first to make some kind of point or whether they've just got more balls.
Smurf
Private Member
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- May 15, 2003
I'm not massively into politics but can someone explain why Corbyn was elected as party leader if most of his colleagues dinnae like him?
MP's wanted all strands of Labour to be represented in the leadership contest that followed when Ed Miliband resigned. Therefore he was nominated by some so called 'blairite' MP's to get him into the mix. Labour opened up the contest to much more than just the membership. Pay £3 and you'll get a vote. The other candidates were dull and uninspiring. Corbyn offered real change of direction. Labour being Labour forgot it has to appeal outwith it's core vote. Started talking to itself and convinced itself Corbyn was the answer.
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- Jun 27, 2002
Could David milliband sort this?
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Smurf
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- May 15, 2003
No way will the membership accept him. Regarded too much as a Blairite. It needs a soft left candidate to emerge and I think preferably a woman. I could see Lisa Nandy emerging...
egb_hibs
Private Member
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- Jul 2, 2002
That's the kind of identity politics thinking that is part of the problem K. It should be the best candidate and their gender is what it is.
Smurf
Private Member
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- May 15, 2003
I agree. However, the reality is for Labour to be listened to it needs a completely different face and it really isn't acceptable that Labour the part of equality has never had a female leader.
I wonder if Tom Watson will seize the moment...
egb_hibs
Private Member
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- Jul 2, 2002
Sorry I think this is precisely wrong. Labour is far to preoccupied with being listened to by those who care about identity politics rather than those that used to vote for them. Who say labour should be the party of 'equality' by the way? What does that even mean? This kind of PC ideology is ripping the country and the Labour Party apart.
Shouldn't labour be more focussed on being the party of labour? I think the above is exactly why it's lost it's way.
SKII
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- Oct 26, 2004
She claimed there had been no arguments in the Shadow Cabinet discussions. Ian Murray comes on a wee while later and says there were...erm...arguments in the Shadow Cabinet. Ooops!
Whenever he gets back from Glastonbury
jock3
Private Member
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- Nov 18, 2012
Look; can we rejoice a little? Cameron is going and chances are he'll take super slug 'Ozzy' Osborne and Jeremy the Hunt with him...
Re Hilary Benn; he has been openly insubordinate on a number of occasions, so no surprise he's been sacked.
The EU has woeful problems; Corbyn thought we'd should stay in, but not at any price. It is undemocratic and the appalling Transatlantic Partnership was looming.
However it is important Labour distances itself from the various Brexit loonies. The fight for socialism is far more important although I'm sure the EU will make us pay heavily for this ill-informed decision.
Mind you, the prospect of arch buffoon Boris coming in is a scary thought.
The right wing of the Labour cannot be trusted; and Corbyn has already offered enough olive branches to feed an army.
Re Hilary Benn; he has been openly insubordinate on a number of occasions, so no surprise he's been sacked.
The EU has woeful problems; Corbyn thought we'd should stay in, but not at any price. It is undemocratic and the appalling Transatlantic Partnership was looming.
However it is important Labour distances itself from the various Brexit loonies. The fight for socialism is far more important although I'm sure the EU will make us pay heavily for this ill-informed decision.
Mind you, the prospect of arch buffoon Boris coming in is a scary thought.
The right wing of the Labour cannot be trusted; and Corbyn has already offered enough olive branches to feed an army.
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SKII
Private Member
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- Oct 26, 2004
what has he done, K?Andy Burnham had the spine to take on the establishment for Hillsborough families when nobody else would and persuaded Gordon Brown of the merits of it. Never thought of him as spineless. Has something happened today?
Smurf
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- May 15, 2003
Andy Burnham had the spine to take on the establishment for Hillsborough families when nobody else would and persuaded Gordon Brown of the merits of it. Never thought of him as spineless. Has something happened today?
For Hillsborough absolutely. His shadow cabinet colleagues are furious with him tonight on what he has tweeted. Seems he's determined to not upset anyone in his determination to get the Manchester mayor candidacy.
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- Jun 28, 2002
....and these Shadow Cabinet ministers are principled ladies and gentlemen. Trotting out tripe from the same script about Corbyn single handedly getting people not to vote to remain. Uber Blairite Alan Johnson was the leader, organiser and main spokesman of the Labour Remain campaign. Not a raised word about him. Dame Margaret Hodge who is joint proposer of the No confidence motion said 'Mr Corbyn should resign because the EU referendum had been a "test of leadership" that he had "failed". The irony of course is that neither Johnson northern constituency nor the Dame's London constituency voted to stay. A test of their personal leadership? Had to laugh when one of the female members who had just resigned, giving the party line a la Hodge, was stopped by the interviewer who pointed out that Hilary Benn had just said that he did not blamed Corbyn for the Brexit result, she stuttered and looked a bit blank. The fact of the matter is that they and the majority of the PLP have not accepted the will of the Party membership from day one of the past 9 months.
BIG G
southfieldhibby
Private Member
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- Oct 12, 2002
I'm a fairly simple man, how can 63% remain from Labour supporters be a sign of weak leadership but the exact same % of SNP voters be an unqualified success?
Is there anything more sleekit than anti Corbyn Labour supporters?
Is there anything more sleekit than anti Corbyn Labour supporters?
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
Point one......repeating the stuff about Manchester which has appeared in the Tory press today, seems a poor basis to say he is spineless.
Point two......has it ever crossed your mind that the so called colleagues are furious because he has a pair.
Point three......Is this what they are furious about?
Andy Burnham@andyburnhammp
It is for our members to decide who leads our Party & 10 months ago they gave Jeremy Corbyn a resounding mandate. I respect that & them.
Andy Burnham@andyburnhammp
I have never taken part in a coup against any Leader of the Labour Party and I am not going to start now.
Andy Burnham@andyburnhammp
At an uncertain time like this for our country, I cannot see how it makes sense for the Opposition to plunge itself into a civil war.
He's a right bad un.
BIG G
Smurf
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- May 15, 2003
I'll tell you what's bad BIG G and that's Labour Party members trying to pretend that Labour is a party of the hard left. That that's what it always was and Corbyn etc are somehow returning Labour back to what it was. Labour has never succeeded when it has gone introspective speaking to itself about itself becoming a party of protest. All Corbyn has done his entire career is protest. Labour has only ever changed the fortunes of those it represents by being in Government and to get into Government it needs to appeal beyond its core vote. This idea that the failed politics and policies that failed in 1983 will work now is unreal. To continue with Corbyn and allow a right wing Tory party get a landslide in the next GE would be an absolute betrayal of the people the party represents. Only when Labour has been soft left/social democratic has it won.
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- Jun 28, 2002
M when I reported on here about arch Blairite careerist Jim Murphy's orchestration against the only Jewish candidate for Labour's National Executive Committee a month ago.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/only-jewish-candidate-for-labours-ruling-nec-blocked-after-intervention-by-jim-murphy-blairites-a7059486.html
many reading this must have seen it as utterly surreal. It was nothing to do with her being Jewish and antisemitism but all about the fact she supports Corbyn.
The NEC is finely balanced and Murphy was doing his masters bidding as the NEC could play a pivotal role in the witch hunt against Corbyn and the left in general. Sleekit isnae the word for them.
BIG G
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Not my experience.
BIG G
southfieldhibby
Private Member
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- Oct 12, 2002
They stopped a Jewish lassie getting the gig cos of her antisemitism? That's genuinely the reason given, and folk say, aye nae bother Jim?
What's Murphy doing involved anyway?
southfieldhibby
Private Member
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- Oct 12, 2002
Does that principle apply to trade unions also then?
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- Jun 28, 2002
I take it that you would also boot out the Progress organisation too. Financial backing from Lord Sainsbury and other big business backers, own members, full time officials conference etc. Have you heard of this Blairite party within a party?
http://www.socialist.net/progress-under-attack.htm
BIG G
Smurf
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- May 15, 2003
As you'll know back in the 80's right wingers like John Smith and Roy Hattersley were in the manifesto group. Soft left like Neil Kinnock and John Prescott in the tribune group and hard left like Tony Benn and Dennis Skinner in the campaign group. Progress in effect replaced the manifesto lot but Momentum is a completely different beast that campaigns and calls for good MP's like Stella Creasy to be unseated.
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Well Labour was set up by them to be their political voice? Hardly a party within a party?
egb_hibs
Private Member
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- Jul 2, 2002
Bryant gone now; says Corbyn could go down in history as man who broke Labour Party.
There's some stuff in this article which explains why, other than the obvious, the knives are out. Internal labour polling reveals that 29% of those who vote for them in 2015 would vote for another party now. Based on last week that's probably UKIP in most cases. You can see why they're panicking - off the top of my head that would make UKIP as big a party as labour by vote share.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...corbyn-labour-leadership-eu-referendum-brexit
There's some stuff in this article which explains why, other than the obvious, the knives are out. Internal labour polling reveals that 29% of those who vote for them in 2015 would vote for another party now. Based on last week that's probably UKIP in most cases. You can see why they're panicking - off the top of my head that would make UKIP as big a party as labour by vote share.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...corbyn-labour-leadership-eu-referendum-brexit
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2002
You dinnae get it K. These horrors in Progress and the PLP have been trying very publicly to unseat the Leader of the Labour party from day one. This could spectacularly backfire in so many ways.
BIG G
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Haha, am I the only one who is thinking that you and Smurf are like a latter day Uriah Heep and his ma wringing hands.
BIG G
Smurf
Private Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2003
Nonsense M!! Corbyn is a vote winner. Don't trust opinion polls. Follow the narrative and here's to a one party UK/rUK.
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You dinnae get it K. These horrors in Progress and the PLP have been trying very publicly to unseat the Leader of the Labour party from day one. This could spectacularly backfire in so many ways.
BIG G
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Haha, am I the only one who is thinking that you and Smurf are like a latter day Uriah Heep and his ma wringing hands.
BIG G
BIG G. You are a consistent socialist. I respect that. I mind asking you before but do you still genuinely believe Corbyn can get the 10% swing to get an overall majority to become PM?
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Up to a further 30 resignations planned for tomorrow starting at 0715. Apparently Corbyn in an act of defiance intended to appoint a new shadow cabinet but he can't replace the resignations fast enough. This must be unprecedented?
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