Bob Dylan is not someone whose music I sit and listen to, but…

Regards Dylan, what can you say about his songwriting other than in popular music it's unsurpassed. Lennon and McCartney output is up there with some of the classical artists in terms of their body of work though.

I never listen to Dylan barely, maybe occasionally stuff from the 'Rolling Thunder' tour, when I thought he sang particularly well (for him) and had Ronno on guitar. The great beauty of his work was often brought out by other artists.
 
Regards Dylan, what can you say about his songwriting other than in popular music it's unsurpassed. Lennon and McCartney output is up there with some of the classical artists in terms of their body of work though.

I never listen to Dylan barely, maybe occasionally stuff from the 'Rolling Thunder' tour, when I thought he sang particularly well (for him) and had Ronno on guitar. The great beauty of his work was often brought out by other artists.
Mt Tamborine man being a good example though i do like Bob Dylan
 
You call the Beatles 'repetitive' then choose Dire Straits as a band that aren't!

I like Mark Knopfler, brilliant guitarist and good guy, but Dire Straits aren't particularly a band I'd choose to depict imaginative or varied! In fact, I thought they were pretty fcuking boring.
Not repetitive for sure, canny think of two similar tracks on brothers in arms 🤷‍♂️
 
…I do think he is an absolute genius and my pick, by far and away, of the 60s songwriters. There’s a new film about him which I fancy seeing and which prompts the thought.

Only Shane McGowan springs to mind as someone similarly writing ‘whole songs’ where the lyrics are indivisible from the melody rather than just some guff to enable the vocal to be an instrument itself. Compare ‘Like a rolling stone’ to ‘Love me do’, or if that’s slightly unfair, anything by the Beatles or Lennon and McCartney individually. Just on a different level, though Sympathy for the Devil and the closing kicker on Won’t get fooled again are up there from others 60s great (albeit the latter in their early 70s phase) - but these are moments. Dylan has song after song that are lyrical genius.

Shite singer though, I mean really bad sometimes, like the first one here, but the lyrics are spot on.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


And this one is an example of his craft … still true, even if the oldies rejecting the future are now those who revelled in it first time round

Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A-Changin' (Official Audio)


Yep, lyrically and musically, Dylan is best American songwriter of last century. Only one who comes close is Leonard Cohen. Cohen has one advantage over Dylan though: his voice. Can never tire of listening to either and I'm saying that as a 70s punk.
 
Yep, lyrically and musically, Dylan is best American songwriter of last century. Only one who comes close is Leonard Cohen. Cohen has one advantage over Dylan though: his voice. Can never tire of listening to either and I'm saying that as a 70s punk.
Don’t really know Cohen apart from the endlessly murdered ‘Halleljuah’. Where would you recommend I go to sample him… ideally not maudlin material if he has any (that’s how I have him pigeon holed from reading about him over the years)
 
This a song of Cohen's that makes me chuckle....


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Don’t really know Cohen apart from the endlessly murdered ‘Halleljuah’. Where would you recommend I go to sample him… ideally not maudlin material if he has any (that’s how I have him pigeon holed from reading about him over the years)

Most Cohen fans would point to his earliest albums in 60s. Which is fair enough. As a contrarian I'd go straight to the end where his ageing voice got raspier but lyrically he was going down and deep. You Want It Darker (2016) puts shivers down my spine every time I listen to it. No fillers, no lightweight stuff, just a mortal soul writing to the heart, letting loose his loves and regrets, knowing his time was coming close to the end.
 
My laddie and I saw Dylan in Liverpool fairly recently after being unable to get tickets for his Edinburgh shows. We are both big fans of the man and it's the first time either of us have had the opportunity to see him live (and given his age, the chance to see him again is unlikely).

I can say in all honesty, it was the worst gig I/we have ever been to (and I’ve been to a few stinkers in my time). I’m aware that BD has a reputation for being a bit edgy at his gigs and not playing songs in the fashion they were recorded but to perform a whole show where no song was recognisable was way out of order. It put me off him so much I can't bring myself to listen to him now. Every other punter I spoke to at the gig was of pretty much the same opinion.

All that said, his songwriting skills are not up for question, he is and always will be one of the best (if not the best). Also to perform for the best part of 2 hours at his age is quite an achievement. However, he will have left a bad taste with a lot of his fans after what you would have to assume was his last tour, which is a shame.
 
My laddie and I saw Dylan in Liverpool fairly recently after being unable to get tickets for his Edinburgh shows. We are both big fans of the man and it's the first time either of us have had the opportunity to see him live (and given his age, the chance to see him again is unlikely).

I can say in all honesty, it was the worst gig I/we have ever been to (and I’ve been to a few stinkers in my time). I’m aware that BD has a reputation for being a bit edgy at his gigs and not playing songs in the fashion they were recorded but to perform a whole show where no song was recognisable was way out of order. It put me off him so much I can't bring myself to listen to him now. Every other punter I spoke to at the gig was of pretty much the same opinion.

All that said, his songwriting skills are not up for question, he is and always will be one of the best (if not the best). Also to perform for the best part of 2 hours at his age is quite an achievement. However, he will have left a bad taste with a lot of his fans after what you would have to assume was his last tour, which is a shame.
Someone at my work was at his recent gig at the Usher Hall and basically said the same as you.
As I mentioned earlier, I first saw him way back in 1984 at Newcastle, and it was tremendous....still being faithful to the songs, had a great band, and his voice was still strong.
I saw him for the second time about 15 years ago at the Playhouse and he had practically no singing voice left, spent the whole show behind a keyboard, you could barely recognise any of the songs, and he depended on his excellent band to carry him though.
He's always been an enigma, he rarely if ever engages with an audience at his concerts, or gives interviews.
At 83 it's incredible that he is still touring fairly extensively, but I think people now are just going to see him if they haven't seen him before, because of the name, before it's too late.
 
Last edited:
My laddie and I saw Dylan in Liverpool fairly recently after being unable to get tickets for his Edinburgh shows. We are both big fans of the man and it's the first time either of us have had the opportunity to see him live (and given his age, the chance to see him again is unlikely).

I can say in all honesty, it was the worst gig I/we have ever been to (and I’ve been to a few stinkers in my time). I’m aware that BD has a reputation for being a bit edgy at his gigs and not playing songs in the fashion they were recorded but to perform a whole show where no song was recognisable was way out of order. It put me off him so much I can't bring myself to listen to him now. Every other punter I spoke to at the gig was of pretty much the same opinion.

All that said, his songwriting skills are not up for question, he is and always will be one of the best (if not the best). Also to perform for the best part of 2 hours at his age is quite an achievement. However, he will have left a bad taste with a lot of his fans after what you would have to assume was his last tour, which is a shame.

Saw Dylan at the Playhouse in 2009 and had much the same experience. It was rank rotten. The band were way too loud and plodding. Dylan's vocals lost. Dylan had his side to the audience and seemed disinterested. I walked out after 5 songs cos my missus was pregnant at the time and we didnt want to subject our unborn to the racket. Didn't put me off Dylan though. The recorded music is eternal gold.
 
Saw Dylan at the Playhouse in 2009 and had much the same experience. It was rank rotten. The band were way too loud and plodding. Dylan's vocals lost. Dylan had his side to the audience and seemed disinterested. I walked out after 5 songs cos my missus was pregnant at the time and we didnt want to subject our unborn to the racket. Didn't put me off Dylan though. The recorded music is eternal gold.
I was never a great fan but loved Positively 4th Street era. When he went electric with Lay Lady Lay there was a big outcry of "sellout" ( much like T Rex later)
In saying that , Make You Feel My Love is a beautiful song.
 
Went to see A Complete Unknown this afternoon and it is generally an excellent biopic covering the first three years of Dylan's recording career from 1962 to 1965 and his controversial move from folk to electric in 1965. Chamalet is fantastic in the lead role, and there are some really good supporting performances as well. It's not perfect...no music biopics ever are...but if you are a fan like me, or are just generally interested, I would recommend it.
 
Went to see A Complete Unknown this afternoon and it is generally an excellent biopic covering the first three years of Dylan's recording career from 1962 to 1965 and his controversial move from folk to electric in 1965. Chamalet is fantastic in the lead role, and there are some really good supporting performances as well. It's not perfect...no music biopics ever are...but if you are a fan like me, or are just generally interested, I would recommend it.
I thoroughly enjoyed it too - was disappointed when it ended. I wonder if there will be a sequel?
 
I agree about "My Back Pages"...for me one of Dylan's greatest songs. Written (unbelievably) when he was just 23, it's a song about how he thought he knew everything about life when he was an idealistic teenager, but as he has become older and wiser, he realises now that he knew nothing back then, and that life isn't as simple and straight forward as he thought it was back then.
It really is astonishing at 23 to have that sort of virtuosity with image and metaphor alone, but to then put that in service of an emotional core that is pure wisdom, is, truly, nothing sort of otherworldly.
She loves you yeh yeh yeh 🤷‍♂️
Incidentally, you can mock that kind of thing all you want, but the Beatles were true pioneers of the pop song. McCartney took the idea of having a song be one side of a conversation with someone about their relationship, and decided that it would be an interesting idea to have the song be telling someone else “she loves you”, rather than be about the singer’s own relationships, as their previous singles had been. Everything up to that point had been centred around the first person addressing the second — “Love ME Do”, “PS I Love You”, “Please Please ME”, “Ask ME Why”, “From ME to You”, “Thank You Girl”. This would be about addressing the second person about a third.

"For No One" is a good example of this, too. We are so used to the I or he/she/they in music. The song is either confessional or a story being told from an omniscient point of view. It is rare that the second person is used because it is literally putting the listener into the shoes of the singer/narrator. “YOUR day breaks, YOUR mind aches,” and in the chorus’ most striking line, “And in her eyes YOU see nothing.”

That this quickly became common practice in the 60s is due, imo, in no small part to The Beatles' superb storytelling capacity.

Anyway, back to Dylan. My own particular favourite is so poignant now that I'm a middle-aged man. "Bob Dylan's Dream" so perfectly encapsulates that you don't know what you've got till it's gone (thanks, Joni). He's fucking 22 when he writes this:

While riding on a train goin’ west
I fell asleep for to take my rest
I dreamed a dream that made me sad
Concerning myself and the first few friends I had

With half-damp eyes I stared to the room
Where my friends and I spent many an afternoon
Where we together weathered many a storm
Laughin’ and singin’ till the early hours of the morn

By the old wooden stove where our hats was hung
Our words were told, our songs were sung
Where we longed for nothin’ and were quite satisfied
Talkin’ and a-jokin’ about the world outside

With haunted hearts through the heat and cold
We never thought we could ever get old
We thought we could sit forever in fun
But our chances really was a million to one

As easy it was to tell black from white
It was all that easy to tell wrong from right
And our choices were few and the thought never hit
That the one road we traveled would ever shatter and split

How many a year has passed and gone
And many a gamble has been lost and won
And many a road taken by many a friend
And each one I’ve never seen again

I wish, I wish, I wish in vain
That we could sit simply in that room again
Ten thousand dollars at the drop of a hat
I’d give it all gladly if our lives could be like that
 
Just think if only Billy had taken another road and got into his music rather than comedy. 😳
 
It really is astonishing at 23 to have that sort of virtuosity with image and metaphor alone, but to then put that in service of an emotional core that is pure wisdom, is, truly, nothing sort of otherworldly.

Incidentally, you can mock that kind of thing all you want, but the Beatles were true pioneers of the pop song. McCartney took the idea of having a song be one side of a conversation with someone about their relationship, and decided that it would be an interesting idea to have the song be telling someone else “she loves you”, rather than be about the singer’s own relationships, as their previous singles had been. Everything up to that point had been centred around the first person addressing the second — “Love ME Do”, “PS I Love You”, “Please Please ME”, “Ask ME Why”, “From ME to You”, “Thank You Girl”. This would be about addressing the second person about a third.

"For No One" is a good example of this, too. We are so used to the I or he/she/they in music. The song is either confessional or a story being told from an omniscient point of view. It is rare that the second person is used because it is literally putting the listener into the shoes of the singer/narrator. “YOUR day breaks, YOUR mind aches,” and in the chorus’ most striking line, “And in her eyes YOU see nothing.”

That this quickly became common practice in the 60s is due, imo, in no small part to The Beatles' superb storytelling capacity.

Anyway, back to Dylan. My own particular favourite is so poignant now that I'm a middle-aged man. "Bob Dylan's Dream" so perfectly encapsulates that you don't know what you've got till it's gone (thanks, Joni). He's fucking 22 when he writes this:

While riding on a train goin’ west
I fell asleep for to take my rest
I dreamed a dream that made me sad
Concerning myself and the first few friends I had

With half-damp eyes I stared to the room
Where my friends and I spent many an afternoon
Where we together weathered many a storm
Laughin’ and singin’ till the early hours of the morn

By the old wooden stove where our hats was hung
Our words were told, our songs were sung
Where we longed for nothin’ and were quite satisfied
Talkin’ and a-jokin’ about the world outside

With haunted hearts through the heat and cold
We never thought we could ever get old
We thought we could sit forever in fun
But our chances really was a million to one

As easy it was to tell black from white
It was all that easy to tell wrong from right
And our choices were few and the thought never hit
That the one road we traveled would ever shatter and split

How many a year has passed and gone
And many a gamble has been lost and won
And many a road taken by many a friend
And each one I’ve never seen again

I wish, I wish, I wish in vain
That we could sit simply in that room again
Ten thousand dollars at the drop of a hat
I’d give it all gladly if our lives could be like that
Great post. On the subject of McCartney and the Beatles, I really like Things We Said Today from A Hard Day's Night. The singer imagining a future where he and his girl will look back on what they were saying in the past. Really clever and touching.
 
It really is astonishing at 23 to have that sort of virtuosity with image and metaphor alone, but to then put that in service of an emotional core that is pure wisdom, is, truly, nothing sort of otherworldly.

Incidentally, you can mock that kind of thing all you want, but the Beatles were true pioneers of the pop song. McCartney took the idea of having a song be one side of a conversation with someone about their relationship, and decided that it would be an interesting idea to have the song be telling someone else “she loves you”, rather than be about the singer’s own relationships, as their previous singles had been. Everything up to that point had been centred around the first person addressing the second — “Love ME Do”, “PS I Love You”, “Please Please ME”, “Ask ME Why”, “From ME to You”, “Thank You Girl”. This would be about addressing the second person about a third.

"For No One" is a good example of this, too. We are so used to the I or he/she/they in music. The song is either confessional or a story being told from an omniscient point of view. It is rare that the second person is used because it is literally putting the listener into the shoes of the singer/narrator. “YOUR day breaks, YOUR mind aches,” and in the chorus’ most striking line, “And in her eyes YOU see nothing.”

That this quickly became common practice in the 60s is due, imo, in no small part to The Beatles' superb storytelling capacity.

Anyway, back to Dylan. My own particular favourite is so poignant now that I'm a middle-aged man. "Bob Dylan's Dream" so perfectly encapsulates that you don't know what you've got till it's gone (thanks, Joni). He's fucking 22 when he writes this:

While riding on a train goin’ west
I fell asleep for to take my rest
I dreamed a dream that made me sad
Concerning myself and the first few friends I had

With half-damp eyes I stared to the room
Where my friends and I spent many an afternoon
Where we together weathered many a storm
Laughin’ and singin’ till the early hours of the morn

By the old wooden stove where our hats was hung
Our words were told, our songs were sung
Where we longed for nothin’ and were quite satisfied
Talkin’ and a-jokin’ about the world outside

With haunted hearts through the heat and cold
We never thought we could ever get old
We thought we could sit forever in fun
But our chances really was a million to one

As easy it was to tell black from white
It was all that easy to tell wrong from right
And our choices were few and the thought never hit
That the one road we traveled would ever shatter and split

How many a year has passed and gone
And many a gamble has been lost and won
And many a road taken by many a friend
And each one I’ve never seen again

I wish, I wish, I wish in vain
That we could sit simply in that room again
Ten thousand dollars at the drop of a hat
I’d give it all gladly if our lives could be like that
You’re right with the emphasis on POP song, not exactly meaningful though. “ She loves you yeh yeh yeh 🤷‍♂️
 
You’re right with the emphasis on POP song, not exactly meaningful though. “ She loves you yeh yeh yeh 🤷‍♂️
Most pop songs are meaningful ??

You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
You shoot me down, but I won't fall
I am titanium
I am titanium