Bob Dylan is not someone whose music I sit and listen to, but…

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egb_hibs

egb_hibs

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Jul 2, 2002
…I do think he is an absolute genius and my pick, by far and away, of the 60s songwriters. There’s a new film about him which I fancy seeing and which prompts the thought.

Only Shane McGowan springs to mind as someone similarly writing ‘whole songs’ where the lyrics are indivisible from the melody rather than just some guff to enable the vocal to be an instrument itself. Compare ‘Like a rolling stone’ to ‘Love me do’, or if that’s slightly unfair, anything by the Beatles or Lennon and McCartney individually. Just on a different level, though Sympathy for the Devil and the closing kicker on Won’t get fooled again are up there from others 60s great (albeit the latter in their early 70s phase) - but these are moments. Dylan has song after song that are lyrical genius.

Shite singer though, I mean really bad sometimes, like the first one here, but the lyrics are spot on.

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And this one is an example of his craft … still true, even if the oldies rejecting the future are now those who revelled in it first time round

Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A-Changin' (Official Audio)
 
Not sure I can think of anyone where…given those vocal shortcomings among other things… others have taken an artists work and really brought it alive

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The Byrds "Mr. Tambourine Man" on The Ed Sullivan Show

The Jimi Hendrix Experience - All Along The Watchtower (Official Audio)

Everybody knows the latter two but the first is an absolute stonker, and I’m not a fan of Van the Man either….
 
Bob Dylan is the songwriter all others really look up to...although IMO he is more of a great poet than a great songwriter.
Lyrically, he is like something from another planet. You don't win the Nobel prize for literature, as he did, without being something quite unique.

Won't be a surprise to anyone here though that has read my ramblings on this subject over the years, that I rate Springsteen higher as songwriter, though Bruce himself would laugh at that, as he considers Dylan to be "the Father of the American nation". Bruce was given the label of being the "new Dylan" in the early 70's when he started off, and in his early work, he was trying too hard to write like him, before he eventually found his own style. He idolises Dylan though.

The thing is It's all about what people constitute as being a "great song". Lennon and McCartney were great songwriters in a completely different way from Dylan, although like everyone else at the time, they felt his influence massively. I have always believed that melody and hook are just as important, if not more important, as lyrics in a song. People can forget lyrics, but they never forget a great hook or a melody. Yesterday, for me, is one of the greatest songs ever written, and has been covered hundreds of times, yet has a fairly simple but powerful lyric which practically everyone can relate to.

I agree about "My Back Pages"...for me one of Dylan's greatest songs. Written (unbelievably) when he was just 23, it's a song about how he thought he knew everything about life when he was an idealistic teenager, but as he has become older and wiser, he realises now that he knew nothing back then, and that life isn't as simple and straight forward as he thought it was back then.
 
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egb_hibs said:
…I do think he is an absolute genius and my pick, by far and away, of the 60s songwriters. There’s a new film about him which I fancy seeing and which prompts the thought.

Only Shane McGowan springs to mind as someone similarly writing ‘whole songs’ where the lyrics are indivisible from the melody rather than just some guff to enable the vocal to be an instrument itself. Compare ‘Like a rolling stone’ to ‘Love me do’, or if that’s slightly unfair, anything by the Beatles or Lennon and McCartney individually. Just on a different level, though Sympathy for the Devil and the closing kicker on Won’t get fooled again are up there from others 60s great (albeit the latter in their early 70s phase) - but these are moments. Dylan has song after song that are lyrical genius.

Shite singer though, I mean really bad sometimes, like the first one here, but the lyrics are spot on.

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And this one is an example of his craft … still true, even if the oldies rejecting the future are now those who revelled in it first time round

Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A-Changin' (Official Audio)
Click to expand...

Good post EGB and spot on, as for being not a very good singer, neither was Sinatra and look how many devotees he has 🤷‍♂️
 
Greenmachine said:
Bob Dylan is the songwriter all others really look up to...although IMO he is more of a great poet than a great songwriter.
Lyrically, he is like some thing from another planet. You don't win the Nobel prize for literature, as he did, without being something quite unique.

Won't be a surprise to anyone here though that has read my ramblings on this subject over the years, that I rate Springsteen higher as songwriter, though Bruce himself would laugh at that, as he considers Dylan to be "the Father of the American nation". Bruce was given the label of being the "new Dylan" in the early 70's when he started off, and in his early work, he was trying too hard to write like him, before he eventually found his own style. He idolises Dylan though.

The thing is It's all about what people constitute as being a "great song". Lennon and McCartney were great songwriters in a completely different way from Dylan, although like everyone else at the time, they felt his influence massively. I have always believed that melody and hook are just as important, if not more important, as lyrics in a song. People can forget lyrics, but they never forget a great hook or a melody. Yesterday, for me, is one of the greatest songs ever written, and has been covered hundreds of times, yet has a fairly simple but powerful lyric which practically everyone can relate to.

I agree about "My Back Pages"...for me one of Dylan's greatest songs. Written (unbelievably) when he was just 23, it's a song about how he thought he knew everything about life when he was an idealistic teenager, but as he has become older and wiser, he realises now that he knew nothing back then, and that life isn't as simple and straight forward as he thought it was back then.
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Been playing my cds again lately and only got half way through the beatles before switching off. Some of thier earlier stuff was pretty much repetitive guff 🤔 later, stuff like hey jude and all you need is love better IMO .
 
I had a few Dylan albums but my favourite was an album of Dylan covers by Steve Gibbons called The Dylan Project - a competent vocalist singing 14 of his songs. Worth a listen if you can find it (released in 1999 iirc).
 
Bangkokhibby said:
Their continual developement is what made them the greatest band in the world
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Agreed.
IMO their early stuff was fantastic as well....the first band to write their own material and record it.
I can only imagine the impact they must have had in the early 60's when they first appeared.
They they developed and progressed at an astonishing rate for the rest of the decade.
There has never been another band like them in terms of songwriting quality and influence in popular music.
 
Greenmachine said:
Agreed.
IMO their early stuff was fantastic as well....the first band to write their own material and record it.
I can only imagine the impact they must have had in the early 60's when they first appeared.
They they developed and progressed at an astonishing rate for the rest of the decade.
There has never been another band like them in terms of songwriting quality and influence in popular music.
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She loves you yeh yeh yeh 🤷‍♂️
 
joethehibby said:
Fair point, prefer Knopfler and dire straits masel 😜
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Mark Knopfler played lead guitar on the original studio version of Dylan's 'Jokerman' I believe. The live version Dylan performed on Letterman sounds completely different and is my favourite ever performance by him:

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Looking forward to watching the new biopic "A Complete Unknown" at some point
 
Hibee Kev said:
Mark Knopfler played lead guitar on the original studio version of Dylan's 'Jokerman' I believe. The live version Dylan performed on Letterman sounds completely different and is my favourite ever performance by him:

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Looking forward to watching the new biopic "A Complete Unknown" at some point
Click to expand...

Your right about that.
Knopfler actually played guitar on the entire album that Jokerman came from, "Infidels", and it helped make it the great album it was.
I saw Dylan during that tour back in 1984 at St James Park, Newcastle and former Rolling Stone Mick Taylor was in his touring band.
You can see that whole Newcastle show from 41 years ago on YouTube.

Hoping to see "A complete unknown" as well in the next few weeks.
 
egb_hibs said:
Yup, that was somewhat of a bizarre comparison. Afaik Sinatra was not a songwriter or musician. The strength of his singing was his act. And quite a successful one really.
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Charisma and act, his strong points, singing voice, nah for me, can think of umpteen great singing voices, he comes way down the list 😩
 
Greenmachine said:
....the first band to write their own material and record it.
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Eh? Bill Haley and the Comets were doing that in the 50s, ditto Buddy Holly and the Crickets . I’m not very good on vintage pop and these were just a couple it occurred to me to check. I’d be surprised if there aren’t countless others.
 
egb_hibs said:
Yup, that was somewhat of a bizarre comparison. Afaik Sinatra was not a songwriter or musician. The strength of his singing was his act. And quite a successful one really.
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Agreed, it was his interpretation of a song and the way he used his breathing (hugely important in singing) which made him so unique as a singer.
It was all so effortless for him.
 
Hibee Kev said:
Mark Knopfler played lead guitar on the original studio version of Dylan's 'Jokerman' I believe. The live version Dylan performed on Letterman sounds completely different and is my favourite ever performance by him:

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Looking forward to watching the new biopic "A Complete Unknown" at some point
Click to expand...

Jokerman is one of my favourite Dylan songs. This version took a minute but I love it. Thanks for posting, I hadn't seen it before.
 
Whiny voiced shite singer IMO. Dinnae mind most singers but Dylan, Bono and Morrisey no for me.
 
Hattie said:
That’s sacrilege putting they two bell-ends in with the great Bob.
Shame on you billy 🙃
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Listen, you probably dinnae like Boney-M Stu.:lookaround: Or come tae think about it yi probably do.
Ma ma ma ma Joe Baker ;))
 
egb_hibs said:
…I do think he is an absolute genius and my pick, by far and away, of the 60s songwriters. There’s a new film about him which I fancy seeing and which prompts the thought.

Only Shane McGowan springs to mind as someone similarly writing ‘whole songs’ where the lyrics are indivisible from the melody rather than just some guff to enable the vocal to be an instrument itself. Compare ‘Like a rolling stone’ to ‘Love me do’, or if that’s slightly unfair, anything by the Beatles or Lennon and McCartney individually. Just on a different level, though Sympathy for the Devil and the closing kicker on Won’t get fooled again are up there from others 60s great (albeit the latter in their early 70s phase) - but these are moments. Dylan has song after song that are lyrical genius.

Shite singer though, I mean really bad sometimes, like the first one here, but the lyrics are spot on.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


And this one is an example of his craft … still true, even if the oldies rejecting the future are now those who revelled in it first time round

Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A-Changin' (Official Audio)
Click to expand...

I agree. Took me a long time to get into Dylan but Blood on the Tracks was my gateway drug. An absolute masterpiece.
That said, my personal favourite songwriter is Ray Davies. Honorable mentions to Tom Waits, Bruce Springsteen and Townes van Zandt, who I only discovered a few years ago. I think of them almost as storytellers; painting little pictures with words.
Not sure I agree with the shite singer thing though. Could say the same about Shane McGowan, Neil Young, Tom Waits, Mark E Smith and a host of others. Their singing fits their songs. I mean Chris Martin and Ed Sheeran can "sing" and it's all very tuneful and professionally done but dear God it's so bland and banal.
 
egb_hibs said:
Eh? Bill Haley and the Comets were doing that in the 50s, ditto Buddy Holly and the Crickets . I’m not very good on vintage pop and these were just a couple it occurred to me to check. I’d be surprised if there aren’t countless others.
Click to expand...
Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Paul Anka, Carl Perkins, Bobby Darin, Dion DiMucci, Buddy Holly, Neil Sedaka, and the Everly Brothers.
 
Sancho Panza said:
I agree. Took me a long time to get into Dylan but Blood on the Tracks was my gateway drug. An absolute masterpiece.
That said, my personal favourite songwriter is Ray Davies. Honorable mentions to Tom Waits, Bruce Springsteen and Townes van Zandt, who I only discovered a few years ago. I think of them almost as storytellers; painting little pictures with words.
Not sure I agree with the shite singer thing though. Could say the same about Shane McGowan, Neil Young, Tom Waits, Mark E Smith and a host of others. Their singing fits their songs. I mean Chris Martin and Ed Sheeran can "sing" and it's all very tuneful and professionally done but dear God it's so bland and banal.
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Cannae agree Sancho…sometimes Dylan is really bad, not like Shane and co. I take your general point, and sometimes even Dylan works (like a rolling stone, for example and imo). But ‘My back pages’ which I linked is just….bad!
 
egb_hibs said:
Cannae agree Sancho…sometimes Dylan is really bad, not like Shane and co. I take your general point, and sometimes even Dylan works (like a rolling stone, for example and imo). But ‘My back pages’ which I linked is just….bad!
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My Back Pages has been covered dozens of times...many of them better than Bob's original.
The Byrds done a great version, but this is probably my favourite cover of that song.

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joethehibby said:
Fair point, prefer Knopfler and dire straits masel 😜
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You call the Beatles 'repetitive' then choose Dire Straits as a band that aren't!

I like Mark Knopfler, brilliant guitarist and good guy, but Dire Straits aren't particularly a band I'd choose to depict imaginative or varied! In fact, I thought they were pretty fcuking boring.
 
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