‘High culture’ - any takers

egb_hibs

Private Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
With the shite weather I was having a wee look at what’s on at the flicks and saw some screenings of operas etc alongside the movies. Which got me to thinking - should I try summat like that? To which the answer was no, I shouldn’t, I’d be bored out of my noggin.

That further caused me to conclude that I am completely not into so called high culture.

Nae Opera (Nessun dorma is barry obvs)
Nae theatre
Nae classical concerts (though I like classical as background music)
Nae galleries
Museums only for practical stuff like engineering, and dinosaurs
Nae poetry
Some classic literature but I find most of it boring pish, even the stuff I think is valuable for what it has to say
Nae ballet - the single worst thing I’ve ever been to was when a gf dragged me to it as a lad. After failing in my argument to watch it on screens in the bar, I remember being crushed when I realised ‘the end’ was in fact an intermission. Excruciating.


I’m not sure what else falls into the bracket but I expect I’m not an aficionado.

Am I a philistine or a typical c21 Scottish bloke? Or c) all of the above.

And do any of you put me to shame?
 
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Opera is on my bucket list. Specifically, Aida at the Verona Amphitheatre. As for some of the rest of your list, I find that I don't have the time to appreciate those diversions. My son and missus go to all the west end type productions at the Playhouse and occasionally pop down to London to take in shows. I stay at home with the dug and get peace. Having said that I'm heading through to Edinburgh today as my laddie is helping out the Scottish champion brass band at a concert they're doing at Marchmont St. Giles. Thank god it's inside with this weather.
 
With the shite weather I was having a wee look at what’s on at the flicks and saw some screenings of operas etc alongside the movies. Which got me to thinking - should I try summat like that? To which the answer was no, I shouldn’t, I’d be bored out of my noggin.

That further caused me to conclude that I am completely not into so called high culture.

Nae Opera (Nessun dorma is barry obvs)
Nae theatre
Nae classical concerts (though I like classical as background music)
Nae galleries
Museums only for practical stuff like engineering, and dinosaurs
Nae poetry
Some classical literature but I find most of it boring pish, even the stuff I think is valuable for what it has to say
Nae ballet - the single worst thing I’ve ever been to was when a gf dragged me to it as a lad. After failing in my argument to watch it on screens in the bar, I remember being crushed when I realised ‘the end’ was in fact an intermission. Excruciating.


I’m not sure what else falls into the bracket but I expect I’m not an aficionado.

Am I a philistine or a typical c21 Scottish bloke? Or c) all of the above.

And do any of you put me to shame?
Something like Shakespeare is a very 'difficult read' to me but I have seen a few plays at The Globe which were fantastic, incredibly witty.
Opera = fat blokes shouting.
Historical museums 👍
 
With the shite weather I was having a wee look at what’s on at the flicks and saw some screenings of operas etc alongside the movies. Which got me to thinking - should I try summat like that? To which the answer was no, I shouldn’t, I’d be bored out of my noggin.

That further caused me to conclude that I am completely not into so called high culture.

Nae Opera (Nessun dorma is barry obvs)
Nae theatre
Nae classical concerts (though I like classical as background music)
Nae galleries
Museums only for practical stuff like engineering, and dinosaurs
Nae poetry
Some classical literature but I find most of it boring pish, even the stuff I think is valuable for what it has to say
Nae ballet - the single worst thing I’ve ever been to was when a gf dragged me to it as a lad. After failing in my argument to watch it on screens in the bar, I remember being crushed when I realised ‘the end’ was in fact an intermission. Excruciating.


I’m not sure what else falls into the bracket but I expect I’m not an aficionado.

Am I a philistine or a typical c21 Scottish bloke? Or c) all of the above.

And do any of you put me to shame?
Like classical music not so much opera
 
I have high hopes for @aggie @Sancho Panza and @Archie here, while @GORDONSMITH7 no doubt has his toes in the water of high culture music along with every other form!
Ha! I’m muchly flattered.

Of your list:

Opera: never been, and don’t ever expect to.
Theatre: on occasion, but find it disappointing as often as I enjoy it.
Classical gigs: been to a handful, not especially arsed, though. Although if you get a chance to see a movie music one, those are barry!
Galleries: love.
Museums: boring.
Poetry: love with a passion.
Classical literature: same as poetry. If I could retire, it would take up 30% of my time, I’d imagine!
Ballet: see opera. Never been, not interested.

So am I a wet bourgeois fopp, or do I still get to go to the game the morn?
 
I’m no culture vulture but since retiring have broadened - or challenged - my tastes somewhat. As a confirmed lover of guitar-based music and blues-oriented in particular, favouring small intimate settings, driving a 240 mile round trip to see Andrea Bocelli and Nicola Benedetti perform outdoors was a real departure for me and one I thoroughly enjoyed. Similarly, a day spent at the Kelvingrove Museum and Art Gallery was a refreshing change for me. Don’t ask me to name any of the songs, the paintings or the artists - that’s not important to me - but simply experiencing something different for a change is so mind refreshing.
 
Ha! I’m muchly flattered.

Of your list:

Opera: never been, and don’t ever expect to.
Theatre: on occasion, but find it disappointing as often as I enjoy it.
Classical gigs: been to a handful, not especially arsed, though. Although if you get a chance to see a movie music one, those are barry!
Galleries: love.
Museums: boring.
Poetry: love with a passion.
Classical literature: same as poetry. If I could retire, it would take up 30% of my time, I’d imagine!
Ballet: see opera. Never been, not interested.

So am I a wet bourgeois fopp, or do I still get to go to the game the morn?
I ken it’s a joke but this doesn’t have any social associations to me, or shouldn’t anyway. I’m just a philistine.

I figured you’d have some of the board covered as it would be hard to do a PhD in literature if you didn’t !
 
Opera is something I'm hoping to see soon.
My wife was a dancer in her youth so I'm going to take her to a dance extravaganza of some sort.
Whether that includes ballet or not I'm not sure.
Personally I have encompassed late classical these last few years.
Bartok being one and we know who to 'blame'for that one!
As for classical literature?
Heavy ,heavy gear some of it!
 
I ken it’s a joke but this doesn’t have any social associations to me, or shouldn’t anyway. I’m just a philistine.

I figured you’d have some of the board covered as it would be hard to do a PhD in literature if you didn’t !
Indeed, the association of forms of culture with socioeconomic groups is totally pernicious (and the subject constituted a fair chunk of my thesis!).
Opera is something I'm hoping to see soon.
My wife was a dancer in her youth so I'm going to take her to a dance extravaganza of some sort.
Whether that includes ballet or not I'm not sure.
Personally I have encompassed late classical these last few years.
Bartok being one and we know who to 'blame'for that one!
As for classical literature?
Heavy ,heavy gear some of it!
Ohhhhh, been to a dance thing a couple of times. Bored to tears, other than marvelling at the physicality!
 
Opera - never been, but I may give it a go. Would have to be a 'popular one' so that at least I'd recognise some tunes.
Theatre - wide definition there.... been to a few. Mainly of the musical variety. Could I include River Dance as theatre? Or just dance. Was brilliant anyway, the original Michael Flatley tour.
Never been to a classical music concert, although performed in a few in my youth.
Art galleries, only a couple of times. But always amazed at the detail in old paintings and sculptures. Art such as a pile of bricks/unmade bed etc leaves me shaking my head.
Museums. Enjoy, but rarely find time to amble around them.
Poetry - not really.
Classical lit - again, wide range. Read tons of 'modern' classics if that includes such as Steinbeck, Orwell, Tolkien etc. Not so much the more difficult ones. Limited attention span, too many trashy novels attract me more.
Ballet - went once when in Spain. Fuckin brutal. Too many blokes in tight strides. That was just the audience.
 
Indeed, the association of forms of culture with socioeconomic groups is totally pernicious (and the subject constituted a fair chunk of my thesis!).

Ohhhhh, been to a dance thing a couple of times. Bored to tears, other than marvelling at the physicality!
As I said, it would be for 'er indoors.
Not my thing.
 
Opera - Can't stand it
Theater - Go fairly regularly. Love a play, one person show or a bit of arty farty contemporary theatre madness. However, with very few exceptions, I cannot stand musicals.
Classical concerts - Not for me
Galleries - Love them
Museums - Love them even more
Poetry - I want to get back into reading poetry particularly contemporary stuff. I read a lot at uni but I've slipped away from it.
Classical literature - I'm assuming we're talking Greek/Roman stuff here? It's interesting but not something I'm passionate about.
Ballet - I go to the Christmas one every year with the wife and wee one. It's enjoyable enough, but if I was single I wouldn't.
 
Easy for me....
Pythonesque humour over anything mainstream like OFAH.

Men dancing, just dinnae 🤮

Literature, I like SF, history, biographies, physics.
Shakespeare..speak properly.

Film, stop telling me Shawshank is the best film ever. The wizard of oz was better.

All modern art and all fawning "I know better than you" critics can GTF

Philistine? Aye maybe if you're a snooty *&*^.
 
Opera - Can't stand it
Theater - Go fairly regularly. Love a play, one person show or a bit of arty farty contemporary theatre madness. However, with very few exceptions, I cannot stand musicals.
Classical concerts - Not for me
Galleries - Love them
Museums - Love them even more
Poetry - I want to get back into reading poetry particularly contemporary stuff. I read a lot at uni but I've slipped away from it.
Classical literature - I'm assuming we're talking Greek/Roman stuff here? It's interesting but not something I'm passionate about.
Ballet - I go to the Christmas one every year with the wife and wee one. It's enjoyable enough, but if I was single I wouldn't.
Classic literature: I suppose I’m not sure now you’ve asked it! @aggie is a scholar in this area so might be able to offer a better definition but I think it’s a wider than Greece and Rome.

You’d have your Shakespeares, Dantes, Chaucers, Cervantes etc, Russians like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky etc, then you’d have all these lads like Proust I know hee haw about. Tonnes more.

Lots of dead white males basically, though I’m sure by the time Aggie has sat his PhD he’ll have been expected to include the slightest of works from elsewhere alongside.
 
Ballet been once wouldn't hurry back
Opera managed to avoid it
Theatre seen a few decent plays
Art Galleries never been impressed
Museums quite interesting on a rainy afternoon
Poetry is wasted on me
Classical Music when used with visual effects can be magnificent
Classical Literature found much of it very boring
 
Theatre - essential. There is nothing like a brilliant play with a cast who can deliver with power and emotion. Night after night!. It's just different to cinema. It doesn't always work, but when it does, oh boy. Anything by Arthur Miller is still relevant now. I really like Jez Butterworth (famous play is Jerusalem), Sean O'Casey and on and on. I've been a bit disappointed by the Lyceum in recent years. Cuts hitting hard. But the best productions are in London, with a price to match. Favorite theatre - the Gate in Dublin.
 
Classic literature: I suppose I’m not sure now you’ve asked it! @aggie is a scholar in this area so might be able to offer a better definition but I think it’s a wider than Greece and Rome.

You’d have your Shakespeares, Dantes, Chaucers, Cervantes etc, Russians like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky etc, then you’d have all these lads like Proust I know hee haw about. Tonnes more.

Lots of dead white males basically, though I’m sure by the time Aggie has sat his PhD he’ll have been expected to include the slightest of works from elsewhere alongside.
That's classic literature, the all-time greats.

Classical is the Greek and Roman stuff.
 
I'll use the template thingy.

Opera - Yep, love it, no expert by any means but I've attended outdoor opera in Italy and loved it. I'll sometimes enjoy playing it in the background when I'm sitting in the garden on nice days. Have a friend in Italy who sends me things from opera she has attended which are great

Theatre - Yes, given someone to go with. Happy to try all different kinds of theatre productions

Classical concerts - Not attended but wouldn't rule it out. I'll listen to various pieces and appreciate it when in the mood

Galleries - Yes, will often do this in particular on visits back to Edinburgh, among other cities wherever I've travelled

Museums - Yes I like museums and will always take the opportunity for visits when they present

Poetry - Yes, particularly partial to Byron, whose ancestral home I live not far from, Dylan Thomas and a bit of Burns

Classical literature - Not so much. After reading necessary textbooks linked with my work, any other spare time would be more likely spent reading what I consider more entertaining or informative books

Ballet - No, a step too far for me. I don't have an appreciation for it.
 
Opera - well you have to just accept that you won't hear most of the words ( but you can read them)! Some of it goes on and on and, no matter how they try. And it seems poss (well it mostly is).But, when it works it is magnificent. Wagner's Ring Cycle just blows you away And you will know more than you think. For example, the Celtic song 'It's a grand old team' takes it's tune from the Pirates of Penzance! That explains why I don't care for Gilbert and Sullivan.
 
Classic literature: I suppose I’m not sure now you’ve asked it! @aggie is a scholar in this area so might be able to offer a better definition but I think it’s a wider than Greece and Rome.

You’d have your Shakespeares, Dantes, Chaucers, Cervantes etc, Russians like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky etc, then you’d have all these lads like Proust I know hee haw about. Tonnes more.

Lots of dead white males basically, though I’m sure by the time Aggie has sat his PhD he’ll have been expected to include the slightest of works from elsewhere alongside.

With you.

To be honest my answer would be largely the same. It doesn't grab me the same way modern classics do.
 
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I'll use the template thingy.

Opera - Yep, love it, no expert by any means but I've attended outdoor opera in Italy and loved it. I'll sometimes enjoy playing it in the background when I'm sitting in the garden on nice days. Have a friend in Italy who sends me things from opera she has attended which are great

Theatre - Yes, given someone to go with. Happy to try all different kinds of theatre productions

Classical concerts - Not attended but wouldn't rule it out. I'll listen to various pieces and appreciate it when in the mood

Galleries - Yes, will often do this in particular on visits back to Edinburgh, among other cities wherever I've travelled

Museums - Yes I like museums and will always take the opportunity for visits when they present

Poetry - Yes, particularly partial to Byron, whose ancestral home I live not far from, Dylan Thomas and a bit of Burns

Classical literature - Not so much. After reading necessary textbooks linked with my work, any other spare time would be more likely spent reading what I consider more entertaining or informative books

Ballet - No, a step too far for me. I don't have an appreciation for it.
Luvvie and HP sauce aficionado...how appropriate...
 
Opera - My dad was/is a lover of italian opera and during the 1950's he travelled down to London to see some of the great tenors of the day perform at Covent Garden Opera House. For his 60th, I remember we as a family got him a ticket to see Pavarotti in Glasgow. I learned a lot about opera growing up a result of this, and whilst I appreciate the great singing, much of it went over my head.

Theatre - Never really been a theatre goer.

Classical concerts - Again, influenced by by dad I enjoy classical music. At school I played the cello and the Double Bass.....not very well I might add !

Galleries - I like a good art gallery. I remember visiting the Prado Gallery in Madrid and it was amazing. The Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam is also fantastic.

Museums - I enjoy vising museums.

Poetry - Don't read much poetry, but I like and admire people who can put this sort of stuff together.

Classical literature - Never really been much of a reader. The odd autobiography a sport/music books bit that's about it. Not into classical literature at all.

Ballet - I admire the elegance and grace of ballet dancers, but it's not something I would ever pay money to see.
 
Lots of dead white males basically, though I’m sure by the time Aggie has sat his PhD he’ll have been expected to include the slightest of works from elsewhere alongside.
Indeed. It is a definite problem in English departments, not just at thesis level ("Why haven't you included any female/black/non-British/whatever authors?" "Err, because I'm writing about British proletarian literature in the 1930s..."), but also in the general sense of teaching the 'decolonisation' of the "Western canon".

Whereby, if you can find an author of x or y origin/characteristic, then that constitutes a worthy replacement for a literary great for that reason in and of itself. Which is why you get tripe like Zora Neale Hurston's Their Eyes Were Watching God held up as great literature, as opposed to the historical artefact it actually is.

Relatedly, I tear my hair out at people -- supposedly educated, literary people -- who think you can still teach modernism having completely dispensed with Conrad because RACIST (which he is demonstrably not, by the way). Conrad of course being a Polish immigrant scion of notable Red parentage, who worked his way up from ordinary seaman to command of his own vessel, and is for me in the top five prose writers of all time, and one of the three pillars of modernism alongside Joyce and Woolf.

Whereas, the aforementioned Virginia Woolf (whom I also like) is revered to the point of sycophancy by Student Grants; funny, given she was an aristocratic woman who fetishised the servant class as noble savages as much as Conrad ever did the same to Africans, if not more so, and moreover openly despised the ordinary lower middle classes.

Identity politics, eh? It's a funny old game.
I've been a bit disappointed by the Lyceum in recent years. Cuts hitting hard. But the best productions are in London, with a price to match.
Indeed, I've been pretty disappointed the last couple of times I've been there, and it's very much not cheap either.
That's classic literature, the all-time greats.

Classical is the Greek and Roman stuff.
Yeah, that's pretty much a correct distinction; though I think Eedge's original meaning was clear, i.e. anything considered "Literachoor" with a capital "L".
 
Opera-I have been,I have enjoyed it.Porgy and Bess is a good one for anyone not looking for anything too heavy.Who knows you might even find yourself saying to yourself 'Hey I recognise that tune!' Similarly with The Barber of Saville or Carmen.I'd probably avoid Das Rheingold by Wagner unless you like the fat lady singing.Theatre again can be as good as any film.Something like the Slab Boys or Educating Rita is as good as anything.Classical Concerts-Just seeing an orchestra in the flesh going at it full throttle can be a great watch-Go to some composer you've maybe heard of like Dvorzak -The New World Symphony (think Hovis and Winalot) rather than Schultz.Galleries-The Gallery of Modern Art is a good one-If you dinnae like the Picassos move on you might like the Damien Hirst or the Roy Lichenstein.Museums-the Engines were always my favourite bit-but I like an Anglo Saxon sword scabbered as much as the next person.Poetry-dosnae have to be 'I wondered lonely as a cloud' it could be 'Sonneh's Letta' by Linton Kwesi Johnson or John Cooper Clarke.Classical Literature-try Thomas Hardy.Ballet-I love dance I love ballet.Dosnae have to be wifies in tutus and men in tights.Try something like Ghost Dances by the Ballet Rambert-about the people who dissapeared during the Pinochet regime.(Sorry there should be paragraph breaks in this-I've forgotten which key you press).
 
@aggie are you sure they don’t like Conrad because they are in fact latter day Mistah Kurtzs, and who that pans out is a little too close to the bone?

Meanwhile they just are Virginia Woolf, except the servant class is now turned into non whites.
 
Opera / Musicals - can't stand
Theater - I like a good play. Used to go more.
Classical concerts - Nah
Galleries - If it's art or an artist that I like, I like an art galley or exhibition.
Museums - I like a good museum. Natural history in NYC is a belter that I visited recently.
Poetry - Never really got it. Even in music I've only in the last decade started to appreciate lyrics. They used to barely register. Its mainly about the tone, melody, rhythm, texture etc. for me.
Classical literature - nope
Ballet - Never been, no desire to
 
With the shite weather I was having a wee look at what’s on at the flicks and saw some screenings of operas etc alongside the movies. Which got me to thinking - should I try summat like that? To which the answer was no, I shouldn’t, I’d be bored out of my noggin.

That further caused me to conclude that I am completely not into so called high culture.

Nae Opera (Nessun dorma is barry obvs)
Nae theatre
Nae classical concerts (though I like classical as background music)
Nae galleries
Museums only for practical stuff like engineering, and dinosaurs
Nae poetry
Some classic literature but I find most of it boring pish, even the stuff I think is valuable for what it has to say
Nae ballet - the single worst thing I’ve ever been to was when a gf dragged me to it as a lad. After failing in my argument to watch it on screens in the bar, I remember being crushed when I realised ‘the end’ was in fact an intermission. Excruciating.


I’m not sure what else falls into the bracket but I expect I’m not an aficionado.

Am I a philistine or a typical c21 Scottish bloke? Or c) all of the above.

And do any of you put me to shame?
Think you are being a bit self-deprecating with the philistine thing. I don't really go for the High Culture/Low Culture distinction but for what it's worth I'll give my two bob's worth.

I like some Opera and have several recordings but have never been to one. I prefer compilations of operatic arias rather than the whole thing; skip the boring recitativo bits in between. I like Mozart operas for the great tunes as well as Verdi and Puccini. I got into a lot of these through their use in films and TV. A few years ago I got into Schubert Lieder; songs with only piano accompaniment after seeing In Bruge with Der Leiermann from the Winterreise song cycle:

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Likewise 18th century Italian songs after seeing an episode of the Sopranos where Tony's wife, Carmela, is looking at a painting in an art gallery accompanied by Vivaldi's Sposa son disprezzata sung by Cecilia Bartoli.

Cecilia Bartoli, Sposa son disprezzata

The human voice is really amazing.

Theatre can be great. I like the fact that the actors are live with no safety net. Saw a great version of Glengarry Glenross several years ago at the Lyceum. Really visceral.

Galleries can be great too. I remember visiting the Prado in Madrid in 2002 on a stag do, hungover to fuck. The Goya stuff was amazing. There is a room with Hieronymous Bosch's Garden of Earthly Delights at one end and Breughel's The Triumph of Death at the other. My Weedgie pal squints at the latter and says "do you think this cvnt ate some mouldy breid?"

Poetry I like. You just need to get used to its conventions. T.S. Eliot, Philip Larkin, Dylan Thomas and William Blake are among my favourites. Just bought a copy of A Shropshire Lad by A.E. Housman specifically for this:

"Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again."

Classical literature I love. Dickens is great. Particularly Great Expectations and Bleak House. Given your interest in the French Revolution you should try A Tale of Two Cities; one of the few books where you probably already know both the opening and closing lines.
Russian literature I think you know. War and Peace is massively overrated. Anna Karenina is far better. His shorter works like The Cossacks and The Death of Ivan Illyich are a good introduction. Try also Dostoyevsky's Notes from Underground or The Gambler.
Orlando Figes' Natasha's Dance is a great overview of Russian literature and culture.

Some of the peaks of European literature I read because they were there and I wanted to see if I could. Things like Thomas Mann's The Magic Mountain was a real effort but it was worth it. A lot of great works of fiction require you to put a bit of work in but ultimately repay the effort. Having said that, I've never got beyond the first volume of Proust or attempted Ulysses.
Totally agree with Aggie about Conrad.

Classical music is awesome and there is so much of it you're bound to find something for you. One of my big favourites is Bach. I was always shite at maths but his music is an application of mathematics that I can understand. Try his keyboard works played by Glenn Gould, especially The Goldberg Variations and The Well-Tempered Clavier.
I also love choral music, so his St Matthew Passion and B Minor Mass are right up my street.
See also Mozart's Requiem. In fact, fuck it, pretty much anything by Mozart. Someone once said that the difference between Beethoven and Mozart is that Beethoven's music is Beethoven talking to God, while Mozart's music is God talking to Mozart. Listen to his piano concerto no.21 to see how true that is.

Sorry for the long post but an EGB query deserves an EGB reply. 😉
 
Thanks for the pointers (and so much else) Sancho.

I agree war and peace is overrated. To be blunt I would say to others it’s not worth it. I might give Anna K a bash if I can work up the stamina.

Dostoevsky I find far superior. Demons in particular, I think is his overlooked masterpiece (vs Bros K and C&P). I struggle with them all though because the characters all seem like hyper ventilating hysterics. Nobody is lukewarm about anything, and seem constantly on the verge of nervous breakdowns.

Maybe it’s the style of the times, or maybe Russia really is that different and I think it might be. As a companion to Dostoyevsky, Turgenev’s Fathers and Sons is worth a look. He is parodied in Demons for his courting of young nihilists, and they are the subject of his F&S. I found it a bit meh in parts, but one of the most poignant endings I’ve read - and one where my interpretation of its meaning has 180’d a couple of times.

Doystoyevsky’s prescience leaves me gob smacked at times. Demons basically forecasts what will go wrong with communism from an 1870s vantage point. Meanwhile the Grand Inquisitor section of Bros K is just astonishing in its forward look and we are nowhere near the end of it’s predicted sequence.

I tried a Tale of Two Cities and gave up both on paper and audiobook. The first surfaced my difficulties with all of these, huge winding sentences are hard for me to parse (mild dyslexia) - I appreciate the irony that I produce the same. I owe a lot to Orwell and Hemingway who I gather were important to shortening sentences. On audio I was left flummoxed by hugely detailed descriptions of passing characters like coachmen who seem destined never to be seen again, and failed again!
 
Thanks for the pointers (and so much else) Sancho.

I agree war and peace is overrated. To be blunt I would say to others it’s not worth it. I might give Anna K a bash if I can work up the stamina.

Dostoevsky I find far superior. Demons in particular, I think is his overlooked masterpiece (vs Bros K and C&P). I struggle with them all though because the characters all seem like hyper ventilating hysterics. Nobody is lukewarm about anything, and seem constantly on the verge of nervous breakdowns.

Maybe it’s the style of the times, or maybe Russia really is that different and I think it might be. As a companion to Dostoyevsky, Turgenev’s Fathers and Sons is worth a look. He is parodied in Demons for his courting of young nihilists, and they are the subject of his F&S. I found it a bit meh in parts, but one of the most poignant endings I’ve read - and one where my interpretation of its meaning has 180’d a couple of times.

Doystoyevsky’s prescience leaves me gob smacked at times. Demons basically forecasts what will go wrong with communism from an 1870s vantage point. Meanwhile the Grand Inquisitor section of Bros K is just astonishing in its forward look and we are nowhere near the end of it’s predicted sequence.

I tried a Tale of Two Cities and gave up both on paper and audiobook. The first surfaced my difficulties with all of these, huge winding sentences are hard for me to parse (mild dyslexia) - I appreciate the irony that I produce the same. I owe a lot to Orwell and Hemingway who I gather were important to shortening sentences. On audio I was left flummoxed by hugely detailed descriptions of passing characters like coachmen who seem destined never to be seen again, and failed again!
Fair do's. Avoid Proust like the plague in that case. His sentences last a page! I like luxuriating in the language though but it takes time.
You might like Zola. His novels are very down to earth and socially aware. He wrote a 20 volume cycle called the Rougon-Macaquart series which deals with two branches of the same family over the course of the French Second Empire (1852-1870). The novels are stand-alone and don't need to be read in order.
If you liked Dostoyevsky's Demons, you should try Conrad's The Secret Agent which likewise deals with the terrorist mindset in a remarkably modern way.
Interestingly there is a Conrad connection with the first two Alien movies. In the first film the ship is called the Nostromo after the Conrad novel and in Aliens the ship is called the Sulaco after the port city in the novel Nostromo. 🤓
 
Fair do's. Avoid Proust like the plague in that case. His sentences last a page! I like luxuriating in the language though but it takes time.
You might like Zola. His novels are very down to earth and socially aware. He wrote a 20 volume cycle called the Rougon-Macaquart series which deals with two branches of the same family over the course of the French Second Empire (1852-1870). The novels are stand-alone and don't need to be read in order.
If you liked Dostoyevsky's Demons, you should try Conrad's The Secret Agent which likewise deals with the terrorist mindset in a remarkably modern way.
Interestingly there is a Conrad connection with the first two Alien movies. In the first film the ship is called the Nostromo after the Conrad novel and in Aliens the ship is called the Sulaco after the port city in the novel Nostromo. 🤓
I think I have read the secret agent…though I’m not 100% sure I have versus having read about it lol

I’ve definitely read Heart of Darkness and think that is a compact little masterpiece. Obviously Apocalypse Now is based on it, but if you haven’t seen the much talked about Civil War yet, it owes a bundle to HoD as well.
 
Harumph. I have loved opera for 40 years.☹️ I also enjoy classical and folk music.
My apologies for omitting you from expected culture vultures.

How would you recommend I approach it. Like many a football fan I love Nessun Dorma, but beyond footie associations that’s cos it has a great tune. So much classical and opera I hear doesn’t seem to…though that’s probably because I’ve been raised on the straightforward hooks of pop music.

In other words what’s a good starting point that’s accessible and without too much OTT screeching lol
 
My apologies for omitting you from expected culture vultures.

How would you recommend I approach it. Like many a football fan I love Nessun Dorma, but beyond footie associations that’s cos it has a great tune. So much classical and opera I hear doesn’t seem to…though that’s probably because I’ve been raised on the straightforward hooks of pop music.

In other words what’s a good starting point that’s accessible and without too much OTT screeching lol

Go see an opera. You will be surprised. Stressed, agitated, no feeling well, pop concierto de Aranjuez on and relax.
 
I think I have read the secret agent…though I’m not 100% sure I have versus having read about it lol

I’ve definitely read Heart of Darkness and think that is a compact little masterpiece. Obviously Apocalypse Now is based on it, but if you haven’t seen the much talked about Civil War yet, it owes a bundle to HoD as well.
As Aggie said, Conrad is one of the greatest prose stylists in English and it was his third language! The opening of Heart of Darkness when Marlow starts narrating the story from the deck of the ship moored in the Thames is one of the best things I've ever read.
I was in Canterbury last year and visited his grave.

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