Yet another council cut

[southfieldhibby]

This time to the budget for music tuition in schools. I know there are strains on the budget, but music is a pretty important part of childhood development.
I'm sure i'm not the only parent to have suffered endless nights of hacking away at violins or cellos, only to be amazed by the end product at concerts at school or town halls.So the council are being dicks again and this petition prob won't make any dif, but sign it anyway please!

https://www.change.org/p/city-of-edinburgh-council-say-no-to-the-proposed-budget-cut-of-our-edinburgh-schools-music-tuition-service?recruiter=329774396&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg&fb_ref=Default

 

[Smurf]

Agreed. I thought the schools budget in Scotland was protected?

 

[Kenny]

Agreed. I thought the schools budget in Scotland was protected?

is it the same as the nhs? the budget is protected but doesn't grow, so a cut in real terms.


did the money to safety check all the schools after that tragedy with the wee lass and the wall come from the education budget? I think it did in glasgow.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

A case of LabourBad/SNPBad I would suggest. What a dream team.

BIG G

 

[Davy]

I dunno why they dont just scrap council tax and add it to income tax..shouldn't have to add too much and everyone pays, and the councils doon't have to chase up non payers. Just my thoughts

 

[Hattie]

I dunno why they dont just scrap council tax and add it to income tax..shouldn't have to add too much and everyone pays, and the councils doon't have to chase up non payers. Just my thoughts

Think there's enough directors etc escaping paying their due income tax, ive read pieces where directors earning in region of 1 million pounds paying the equivalent of 10%.. This would just be more ways for them escaping it...

 

[SKII]

Agreed. I thought the schools budget in Scotland was protected?

Nope, not for maybe half a dozen years now. It was merged with Social Work to create Children and Families. It's a nice way of letting councils choose how they spend the money they are given. The ring fencing was removed from education to allow more flexibility about how money goes into social work. I don't think I need to spell it out what has happened.

Schools have been facing year on year actual cuts to their budgets - things are now down to the bones. There really is nothing left to cut. The SSTA this week released a bulletin expressing their concern that it is teachers who are now papering over the cracks with their own money. The only occupation that go to work and the employer takes stationery from the employee. :doh

is it the same as the nhs? the budget is protected but doesn't grow, so a cut in real terms.


did the money to safety check all the schools after that tragedy with the wee lass and the wall come from the education budget? I think it did in glasgow.

See above Kenny.

 

[broonieboy]

My budget for running a dept in a mid size High School equates to just over a pound per pupil who walks through the door. It's a challenge!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jock3]

An idealogical battle...

As with the NHS, this national government loathes the idea of state education. They will do everything they can to dismantle the structures and demoralise the staff. They have thrown huge sums of money on so-called 'free' schools, which the tax-payer still funds by the way. If they deny it they are lieing. They want to introduce more public schools to for the privileged. And until the SNP(and Scottish Labour) grow a pair and start opposing this class war, it will continue.

I was talking to a colleague the other day; apparently the Tories bungled through a piece of legislation called 'The Accountability of Local Authorities Act'. What a pathetic attempt to undermine hard working councils. Hopefully now Eric Pickles has been dumped from the corresponding ministerial post that will be the end of that poisonous piece of .

 

[jadamson2704]

I wonder what the end game is for the Tories. Are they aiming for a situation where no government decisions or policy making is done, just a team of contract managers at Whitehall to keep the country ticking over? Makes me wonder where the theoretical tipping point is where the quality of the service come before the bottom line for outsourced services.

I do worry a little bit about what will happen in the next decade, without a realistic challenge to the Conservative slash 'n' burn strategy in the near future.

 

[egb_hibs]

As with the NHS, this national government loathes the idea of state education. They will do everything they can to dismantle the structures and demoralise the staff. They have thrown huge sums of money on so-called 'free' schools, which the tax-payer still funds by the way. If they deny it they are lieing. They want to introduce more public schools to for the privileged. And until the SNP(and Scottish Labour) grow a pair and start opposing this class war, it will continue.

I was talking to a colleague the other day; apparently the Tories bungled through a piece of legislation called 'The Accountability of Local Authorities Act'. What a pathetic attempt to undermine hard working councils. Hopefully now Eric Pickles has been dumped from the corresponding ministerial post that will be the end of that poisonous piece of .

Jock you are either Moaty or a satirist - probably somebody else with a secondary logon. Which is it fella?

Nobody can actually believe this stuff.

 

[Smurf]

Nope, not for maybe half a dozen years now. It was merged with Social Work to create Children and Families. It's a nice way of letting councils choose how they spend the money they are given. The ring fencing was removed from education to allow more flexibility about how money goes into social work. I don't think I need to spell it out what has happened.

Schools have been facing year on year actual cuts to their budgets - things are now down to the bones. There really is nothing left to cut. The SSTA this week released a bulletin expressing their concern that it is teachers who are now papering over the cracks with their own money. The only occupation that go to work and the employer takes stationery from the employee. :doh





See above Kenny.

I disagree. Our SNP government say school budgets have been protected and the SNP are never wrong....

 

[SKII]

As with the NHS, this national government loathes the idea of state education. They will do everything they can to dismantle the structures and demoralise the staff. They have thrown huge sums of money on so-called 'free' schools, which the tax-payer still funds by the way. If they deny it they are lieing. They want to introduce more public schools to for the privileged. And until the SNP(and Scottish Labour) grow a pair and start opposing this class war, it will continue.

I was talking to a colleague the other day; apparently the Tories bungled through a piece of legislation called 'The Accountability of Local Authorities Act'. What a pathetic attempt to undermine hard working councils. Hopefully now Eric Pickles has been dumped from the corresponding ministerial post that will be the end of that poisonous piece of .

Jock education is devolved. The national UK government don't have any influence on the decisions made in Scotland about how we deliver, fund or monitor education.

 

[SKII]

My budget for running a dept in a mid size High School equates to just over a pound per pupil who walks through the door. It's a challenge! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That figure is mirrored across the secondary sector. At a time of a new curriculum - no money for the new texts and resources needed.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

Jock education is devolved. The national UK government don't have any influence on the decisions made in Scotland about how we deliver, fund or monitor education.

It would appear from all I can glean as a non specialist that education is in a worse state in Scotland than when the SNP took office in 2007. Apparently recent national numeracy and literacy statistics have shown an actual decline in the share of pupils assessed as performing “well” or “very well” and is worse for the least well off Scots with 32 % of second year high school pupils from the most deprived areas not reading “well” or “very well” and the gap between them and pupils of richer families widening, according to the 2014 Scottish Survey of Literacy?

“Scotland’s performance was significantly worse in 2012 than it had been in 2000,” Keir Bloomer, an education expert and one of the authors of the country’s curriculum has commented.

To the 3 teachers on here, apart from the minimum class number pledges the SNP gave, which now appear to have been populist in nature to say the least, does this ring true.

BIG G

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry another thing I would like opinions on is whether as a consequence of the SNP Governments commitment to fund free tuition for Middle class families at Scottish Universities, they have slashed College places by 130,000 - 140,000. It seems from what I can see that despite all the rhetoric, the percentage of students from under-privileged backgrounds attending Scottish Universities, continues to lag behind every other part of the UK.

BIG G

 

[egb_hibs]

It would appear from all I can glean as a non specialist that education is in a worse state in Scotland than when the SNP took office in 2007. Apparently recent national numeracy and literacy statistics have shown an actual decline in the share of pupils assessed as performing “well” or “very well” and is worse for the least well off Scots with 32 % of second year high school pupils from the most deprived areas not reading “well” or “very well” and the gap between them and pupils of richer families widening, according to the 2014 Scottish Survey of Literacy?

“Scotland’s performance was significantly worse in 2012 than it had been in 2000,” Keir Bloomer, an education expert and one of the authors of the country’s curriculum has commented.

To the 3 teachers on here, apart from the minimum class number pledges, which now appear to have been populist in nature, does this ring true.

BIG G

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry another thing I would like opinions on is whether as a consequence of the SNP Governments commitment to fund free tuition for Middle class families at Scottish Universities, they have slashed College places by 130,000 - 140,000. It seems from what I can see that despite all the rhetoric, the percentage of students from under-privileged backgrounds attending Scottish Universities, continues to lag behind every other part of the UK.

BIG G

possibly because there are less grammar schools? I don't know if that's the case but I've never heard of one in Edinburgh.

"Last year, more than 17,000 people applied for undergraduate courses at Oxford and 4,500 won places. As we know, 43 per cent of those places go to pupils from private schools (although some of those will of course be children from poorer homes, on bursaries) but that may have something to do with the fact that more than 35 per cent of all applications come from that tiny number of private schools. The easiest way to not win a place at Oxbridge is not to apply in the first place, after all.
While 25 per cent of all private school applicants get accepted, a lower number, 21 per cent, of state school pupils get places. This, though, may have a lot to do with the courses for which they are applying.
State school applicants are more likely to apply for the most oversubscribed subjects, such as PPE, medicine and law, while they are less likely to apply for less popular courses like Classics, Music, Modern Languages and Chemistry, so they have a statistically lower chance of success.
However, the key statistic isn’t the difference between state and private schools, it lies in the difference between different kinds of schools within the state system.
Last year there were163 grammars in England out of more than 3,300 state secondary schools, responsible for educating just five percent of the state school population. And yet their pupils made up 10 per cent of all students accepted on Oxford courses."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...bridge-for-discriminating-against-pupils.html

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

possibly because there are less grammar schools? I don't know if that's the case but I've never heard of one in Edinburgh.

"Last year, more than 17,000 people applied for undergraduate courses at Oxford and 4,500 won places. As we know, 43 per cent of those places go to pupils from private schools (although some of those will of course be children from poorer homes, on bursaries) but that may have something to do with the fact that more than 35 per cent of all applications come from that tiny number of private schools. The easiest way to not win a place at Oxbridge is not to apply in the first place, after all.
While 25 per cent of all private school applicants get accepted, a lower number, 21 per cent, of state school pupils get places. This, though, may have a lot to do with the courses for which they are applying.
State school applicants are more likely to apply for the most oversubscribed subjects, such as PPE, medicine and law, while they are less likely to apply for less popular courses like Classics, Music, Modern Languages and Chemistry, so they have a statistically lower chance of success.
However, the key statistic isn’t the difference between state and private schools, it lies in the difference between different kinds of schools within the state system.
Last year there were163 grammars in England out of more than 3,300 state secondary schools, responsible for educating just five percent of the state school population. And yet their pupils made up 10 per cent of all students accepted on Oxford courses."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...bridge-for-discriminating-against-pupils.html

Fuck me the 3 teachers dinae waste yer time answering, Mr Chips has saved ye the bother.

BIG G

 

[Smurf]

Oh well following greater devolution of powers we can expect this SNP Government with the powers will use them tomorrow in the Scottish Budget and put up income tax in Scotland to be more 'Progressive' in areas such as education?

 

[Dub]

Oh well following greater devolution of powers we can expect this SNP Government with the powers will use them tomorrow in the Scottish Budget and put up income tax in Scotland to be more 'Progressive' in areas such as education?

Maybe not

 

[Smurf]

Maybe not

You are a wee bit behind Iain!

These were powers devolved in 2012!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35106701

Why not use them to put up taxes?

 

[Dub]

You are a wee bit behind Iain!

These were powers devolved in 2012!

Swinney to outline Scottish budget plans for 2016/17 - BBC News

Why not use them to put up taxes?

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the further "powers" being devolved. Good idea to raise taxes and make us less competitive than the country right next door.

 

[broonieboy]

That figure is mirrored across the secondary sector. At a time of a new curriculum - no money for the new texts and resources needed.

It's aye been. Regardless of uk gov and rulers at Holyrood, the pressure to deliver on a show string has always been there. When I first started it was labour who expected us to deliver world class education for buttons so those blaming SNP are spouting pish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Smurf]

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the further "powers" being devolved. Good idea to raise taxes and make us less competitive than the country right next door.

So if we become Independent and England went down a very small state/low tax route we would follow suit to be competitive?

 

[Dub]

So if we become Independent and England went down a very small state/low tax route we would follow suit to be competitive?

We arent independent Smurf so the question is completely pointless because we don't know what the financial conditions would be in each country following Indy. You're trying to paint me in to a corner for whatever reason.

 

[MixuDave]

So if we become Independent and England went down a very small state/low tax route we would follow suit to be competitive?

You seriously trying to suggest that post Scottish Indy, England would see taxes lowered? Or have I picked you up wrong K?

 

[Smurf]

You seriously trying to suggest that post Scottish Indy, England would see taxes lowered? Or have I picked you up wrong K?

You ha e picked me up wrong in the sense that I am not saying that because of Scotland going Indy England would see taxes lowered.

However, the Tories are clearly embarking on a low tax small government strategy...

 

[MixuDave]

You ha e picked me up wrong in the sense that I am not saying that because of Scotland going Indy England would see taxes lowered.

However, the Tories are clearly embarking on a low tax small government strategy...

Low tax? I realise we can now earn a few quid mair before we start paying our income tax, but in what sense is Britian a low tax country Kenny? Deary me mate, we live in yin of the most taxed countries in the world!!! And as for small government, again ye've lost me mate, can you expand?

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

It's aye been. Regardless of uk gov and rulers at Holyrood, the pressure to deliver on a show string has always been there. When I first started it was labour who expected us to deliver world class education for buttons so those blaming SNP are spouting pish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesnae answer my questions amigo. You dinae have to, so hey ho.

BIG G

 

[egb_hibs]

$#@! me the 3 teachers dinae waste yer time answering, Mr Chips has saved ye the bother.

BIG G

FFS - do you even really care about the problem beyond it being an axe to grind in favour of your political point of view? I note you go on to be as dismissive of one of those teachers when he fails to support that political point of view.

And money, despite your touching faith in it, is not the only solution to everything.

 

[The__Proclaimer]

Youse Nats are just full of lolz. We shouldn't put taxes up now cos it would be un-competitive but had a year of you saying you'd be delighted to pay more tax for a fairer, free society. You guys change your tune whenever it suits.


(I'm not blaming SNP for the situation in the OP by the way.)

 

[Jack]

A few observations that I don't think really impinge on politics!

The falling standards as mentioned by [MENTION=29]GORDONSMITH7[/MENTION].

Are these falling standards perhaps as a result of migrants coming to Scotland? I'm thinking that their kids are unlikely to do as well as the indigenous population, the language barriers for example are likely to hold them back. If kids don't have the expected natural level for their age it's not just English they'll fall down in but everything else too.

They are also more likely to live in well off areas making these areas look worse. They're also less likely have the ambition to go to university.


Also about the UK being a low tax country.

There was a lot of chat on the wireless this week that discussed this. Germany is a high tax, high income country. Just saying likes ;-)

 

[HenryLB]

Low tax? I realise we can now earn a few quid mair before we start paying our income tax, but in what sense is Britian a low tax country Kenny? Deary me mate, we live in yin of the most taxed countries in the world!!! And as for small government, again ye've lost me mate, can you expand?

Still lower than Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Belgium, Austria, Germany... Most of the places everyone is always saying are so enviable.

- - - Updated - - -

Youse Nats are just full of lolz. We shouldn't put taxes up now cos it would be un-competitive but had a year of you saying you'd be delighted to pay more tax for a fairer, free society. You guys change your tune whenever it suits.


(I'm not blaming SNP for the situation in the OP by the way.)

Oh come on, nobody EVER mentioned paying more tax. That's just something Project Fear pretended Yessers were saying to smear them. It was all about, um, making more money from oil... er hang on...

 

[Shades]

Youse Nats are just full of lolz. We shouldn't put taxes up now cos it would be un-competitive but had a year of you saying you'd be delighted to pay more tax for a fairer, free society. You guys change your tune whenever it suits.(I'm not blaming SNP for the situation in the OP by the way.)

Was the argument not that we would be happy to pay a little more tax in an independent Scotland as we would recognise that as being a little pain for a lot of gain? You've also taken a tiny snapshot of the support for Independence or the SNP and used it as the opinion of all of these voters (we're pretty much used to that though, it's not only you - see HenryLB above). In any case, until Scotland gets proper tax altering powers, where bands can be altered, then the progressive nature of tax raising cannot take place. It's interesting that the SNP shoukdn't give away free prescriptions because everyone gets them, shouldn't continue with the council tax freeze because everyone gets it, yet they should raise income tax as a blanket measure, and everyone should get it. Even Labour don't support an income tax rise at this point.

 

[The__Proclaimer]

Was the argument not that we would be happy to pay a little more tax in an independent Scotland as we would recognise that as being a little pain for a lot of gain? You've also taken a tiny snapshot of the support for Independence or the SNP and used it as the opinion of all of these voters (we're pretty much used to that though, it's not only you - see HenryLB above). In any case, until Scotland gets proper tax altering powers, where bands can be altered, then the progressive nature of tax raising cannot take place. It's interesting that the SNP shoukdn't give away free prescriptions because everyone gets them, shouldn't continue with the council tax freeze because everyone gets it, yet they should raise income tax as a blanket measure, and everyone should get it. Even Labour don't support an income tax rise at this point.

A little more tax? Tax was getting used to fund absolutely everything. Every legal tax dodge loophole would have been closed. Every high wage was getting hit. All sorts of social giveaways were getting funded. And no business or person was going to relocate to England....but they would if you raised income tax by a penny?

The reason it's not getting used is because the SNP in particular, and all parties in general, don't like doing unpopular things - taking more money out your wage being the #1 I'd guess.

As for it being a universal tax, you saying they only have power to raise taxes for everyone and not certain income thresholds? Genuine question, I don't know the answer

 

[HenryLB]

Was the argument not that we would be happy to pay a little more tax in an independent Scotland as we would recognise that as being a little pain for a lot of gain?

Money would buy more stuff in an independent Scotland?

You've also taken a tiny snapshot of the support for Independence or the SNP and used it as the opinion of all of these voters (we're pretty much used to that though, it's not only you - see HenryLB above).

It's just interesting that it always seems to be someone else who was saying the now-inconvenient thing.

In any case, until Scotland gets proper tax altering powers, where bands can be altered, then the progressive nature of tax raising cannot take place. It's interesting that the SNP shoukdn't give away free prescriptions because everyone gets them, shouldn't continue with the council tax freeze because everyone gets it, yet they should raise income tax as a blanket measure, and everyone should get it. Even Labour don't support an income tax rise at this point.

That's fair, although pretty soon that will be possible. And in any case the point was about the general enthusiasm to pay more tax which suddenly seems to have dissipated, as opposed to the structure of how it might be imposed. Nobody above was saying "I'd love to pay more tax but it's organised wrong". They were saying they didn't want to pay more tax.

 

[southfieldhibby]

I'll tell you what, it's fucking tiresome that everything has to revert back to the independence referendum, and it's precisely why Scotland as a nation-whether part of the union or not- is doomed to abject blandness for eternity. A virtual room full of reasonably sensible,intelligent folk taking 'she said/you said/whatiffery' route.

This entire thread is pretty much populated by sweetie wifies that would not have been out of place in The Steamie, but minus the wit and charm.


I hope you all signed the fucking petition.

 

[Shades]

A little more tax? Tax was getting used to fund absolutely everything. Every legal tax dodge loophole would have been closed. Every high wage was getting hit. All sorts of social giveaways were getting funded. And no business or person was going to relocate to England....but they would if you raised income tax by a penny? The reason it's not getting used is because the SNP in particular, and all parties in general, don't like doing unpopular things - taking more money out your wage being the #1 I'd guess.As for it being a universal tax, you saying they only have power to raise taxes for everyone and not certain income thresholds? Genuine question, I don't know the answer

I thought that oil was going to fund everything? The crux of the matter is of course contained within your post. No party is going to raise taxes so close to the elections. Next year might be different, it'll probably have to be as there is going to be a huge hole to fill.

 

[beefy]

Ha! Telt!

 

[Gareth]

Are these falling standards perhaps as a result of migrants coming to Scotland? I'm thinking that their kids are unlikely to do as well as the indigenous population, the language barriers for example are likely to hold them back. If kids don't have the expected natural level for their age it's not just English they'll fall down in but everything else too.

Most of the evidence I've seen suggests that the children of newly arrived migrants out-perform the longer standing communities.

And Henry and Proc, we're over a year past the ref and you're both still painting all yes supporters as the same. I want higher earners to pay more tax (even if it means I sneak into that band), I want higher corporation tax levels. Just because the SNP might not (and I think they deserve to be roasted for that) doesn't mean that pro-indy people now don't. the homogenizing if yes really is tiresome.

edit - just saw southy's comment and its bang on

 

[The__Proclaimer]

I thought that oil was going to fund everything? The crux of the matter is of course contained within your post. No party is going to raise taxes so close to the elections. Next year might be different, it'll probably have to be as there is going to be a huge hole to fill.

It was but then the goalposts shifted.


Southfield, that vote was only a 5.1% swing away from being a result which would have completely destroyed (imho and all that) the country I love and it would have been destroyed based on false promises. Sorry for feeling passionate about that.

On the other side you have someone like Dub who has fought and campaigned for independence to all his life and got pretty damn close to it only to see it scuppered by fear & lies (in his opinion). Sorry he feels passionately too.

You might be one of those recent converts who are bored of talking about the referendum already but it was a once-in-a-lifetime chance for people to vote on something they have always believed in. Sorry for discussing it 14 months later.