WTF, Russia?!

Brainwrong

Spaktacuradge
Private Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Is Russia really this pish? Fuckin worse that the Yanks are right now, and that's saying something. At least most of the US is aware how mental their situation is. Russians seem to be happy with half the population being in a perpetual state of trauma bonding.

Russian lawmakers are giving domestic abusers a green light | Natalia Tumashkova | Opinion | The Guardian

Why is everything regressing? Has ISIS' pish started subliminally infiltrating the water supply?




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Russia is miles worse than the US, it's not really 'saying something' tbh. On the bright side it's not really regressing, it is nowhere near as bad as the USSR; its actually improving albeit in one step forward two goosesteps back kinda way. The US and west have been regressing for a long time m for reasons discussed on this board but which maybe just come down to entropy.
 
OK, how about normal people handcuffing 5 year olds?

This is horrific.

Ordinary Americans carried out inhumane acts for Trump - Baltimore Sun


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It's a country where 'normal people' go to work in facilities where hundreds of thousands of unborn are killed every year, or go to work in prisons where adults are strapped down and poisoned or electrocuted to death, where chaos has been sewn on inner cities and thousands of barely out of childhood young men slaughter each other each year. It's a country where saying or thinking the wrong thing can get you excluded from job or education, or if you're an Israeli, sometimes even just being the wrong thing.

There's plenty wrong with America, and a lot of it is getting worse and the stuff you quote is part of that; nevertheless some of the hyperbole surrounding Trump is disturbing because of its tacit acceptance of politically acceptable horrors. It's also as one eyed as ever - every country that is the subject of Trump's travel ban, apart from Somalia, has an existing Jewish travel ban / bans Israelis. Selective outrage as per.

None of which is to detract from the wrongness of Trump's ban and the inevitable clanking hand of the state in such circumstances. But the idea this marks some exceptional downturn in America is somewhat exaggerated, and the idea it puts her on a par with Russia is just whacky.

That said we're only a few weeks in; give it time.
 
It's a country where 'normal people' go to work in facilities where hundreds of thousands of unborn are killed every year, or go to work in prisons where adults are strapped down and poisoned or electrocuted to death, where chaos has been sewn on inner cities and thousands of barely out of childhood young men slaughter each other each year. It's a country where saying or thinking the wrong thing can get you excluded from job or education, or if you're an Israeli, sometimes even just being the wrong thing.

There's plenty wrong with America, and a lot of it is getting worse and the stuff you quote is part of that; nevertheless some of the hyperbole surrounding Trump is disturbing because of its tacit acceptance of politically acceptable horrors. It's also as one eyed as ever - every country that is the subject of Trump's travel ban, apart from Somalia, has an existing Jewish travel ban / bans Israelis. Selective outrage as per.

None of which is to detract from the wrongness of Trump's ban and the inevitable clanking hand of the state in such circumstances. But the idea this marks some exceptional downturn in America is somewhat exaggerated, and the idea it puts her on a par with Russia is just whacky.

That said we're only a few weeks in; give it time.

This is a departure and it's patently different. You know it. And it's happening so quickly and disturbingly mundanely.

You're going a bit whataboutery on this and I know you hate that.

The yanks were a tongue in cheek comment re Russia. I'd never really compare them in any true sense. So, I agree, they're completely different cases and should be judged separately.

However, what's happening and what's being kicked off is really fucking shocking.

These guys are power mad fruit loops. We're lucky there are so many inter department sanity checks in the US legal system. Otherwise Bannons steamroller would be effective in the medium to long term. As opposed to this horrible short term collateral damage.


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This is a departure and it's patently different. You know it. And it's happening so quickly and disturbingly mundanely.

You're going a bit whataboutery on this and I know you hate that.

The yanks were a tongue in cheek comment re Russia. I'd never really compare them in any true sense. So, I agree, they're completely different cases and should be judged separately.

However, what's happening and what's being kicked off is really $#@!ing shocking.

These guys are power mad fruit loops. We're lucky there are so many inter department sanity checks in the US legal system. Otherwise Bannons steamroller would be effective in the medium to long term. As opposed to this horrible short term collateral damage.


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i take your point about whataboutery and perhaps im guilty. Then again I'm specifically highlighting
the out of context hysteria that is gripping the manufacturers of news and thus shaping perceptions of events. Given that is the case it's hard not to supply context in making the point.

Do I think this is a poor show? Yes. Do I think it's 'different' in some way presumably darker than the context I mentioned? No. Do I think similar examples of thuggish bureaucrats in action could have been found in relation to Obamas security strictures? Almost certainly so if the media has been so intent on finding them. Do I think trump is a frightening loon? Yes. Do I think he exists in a vacuum - no, he's a predictable and predicted consequence of an existing descent, and one of the most dangerous things is that he is viewed in isolation.
 
It's a country where 'normal people' go to work in facilities where hundreds of thousands of unborn are killed every year, or go to work in prisons where adults are strapped down and poisoned or electrocuted to death, where chaos has been sewn on inner cities and thousands of barely out of childhood young men slaughter each other each year. It's a country where saying or thinking the wrong thing can get you excluded from job or education, or if you're an Israeli, sometimes even just being the wrong thing.

There's plenty wrong with America, and a lot of it is getting worse and the stuff you quote is part of that; nevertheless some of the hyperbole surrounding Trump is disturbing because of its tacit acceptance of politically acceptable horrors. It's also as one eyed as ever - every country that is the subject of Trump's travel ban, apart from Somalia, has an existing Jewish travel ban / bans Israelis. Selective outrage as per.

None of which is to detract from the wrongness of Trump's ban and the inevitable clanking hand of the state in such circumstances. But the idea this marks some exceptional downturn in America is somewhat exaggerated, and the idea it puts her on a par with Russia is just whacky.

That said we're only a few weeks in; give it time.

:applause::applause::applause:
 
Ps apologise for taking you too literally on Russia but it's the kind of comparison rountinely made in earnest in a totally hysterical climate
 
out of curiosity EGB if Trump's new appointee reverses Roe vs Wade would that in itself make him a President worthy of your support? irrespective of all the other 'nonsense' and assuming he doesnt trigger WWIII?

NOT wanting another debate on the pro's and cons of having legalised abortion.
 
out of curiosity EGB if Trump's new appointee reverses Roe vs Wade would that in itself make him a President worthy of your support? irrespective of all the other 'nonsense' and assuming he doesnt trigger WWIII?

NOT wanting another debate on the pro's and cons of having legalised abortion.
it would be a policy worthy of support, I can't imagine any circumstances I'd find him a president worthy of support. It would also be a policy entirely out of keeping with his own recorded views which are at odds with his campaign rhetoric - who knows what position he will find expedient to take as president.

Notable this is being picked out of my post where it was merely one counterpoint to the inference that bureaucrats actioning trump's policies are reminiscent of all those just following orders in nazi Germany. The point was that a lot lot worse routinely goes on and we haven't descended into a fourth reich, and a lot of outrage is entirely selective, itself a reminder of the poisoned culture that has spawned trump.
 
I picked it out because you offered the comparison in a way that suggested to me that on balance if Trump 'saves 100s of 1000s of unborn lives each year' then the misery he deals out to others is while not inconsequential, mitigated against this 'greater' deed. its the only policy proposition that reverses the status quo that I would think you'd clearly support? there's no (as yet) proposed change to end capital punishment?

^^that's the obvious implication of your juxtaposition, which even given our different perspectives on abortion, seems remarkable.

clearly this is not a conviction politician - climate change is another policy where previously expressed personal views are diametrically the opposite of campaign and now presidential rhetoric.
 
Don't understand your 'obvious implication' and why it's remarkable?

I've spelled the point of the comparison which wasn't the equation you make it was letting the air out of the hype that suggests Trump is turning US public sector staff into camp guards.

I also don't understand your logic that if you stop harm or do something positive in scenario x it makes damage you do in situation y inconsequential. In other words, if Trump had such a policy it would be a good policy but it wouldn't make his mistreatment of others in other situations inconsequential; why would that follow?

As above, my point was to deflate the hype: having failed democracy for the last 8 years with its servile adoration of Obama, the media has now taken leave of its senses, and is failing democracy again in its frothing hysteria. Some equilibrium is urgently required before this spiral of mutually inflaming extremisms gets any worse.
 
Is Russia really this pish? Fuckin worse that the Yanks are right now, and that's saying something. At least most of the US is aware how mental their situation is. Russians seem to be happy with half the population being in a perpetual state of trauma bonding.

Russian lawmakers are giving domestic abusers a green light | Natalia Tumashkova | Opinion | The Guardian

Why is everything regressing? Has ISIS' pish started subliminally infiltrating the water supply?




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Never been to Russia but I reckon from what I know it is probably very pish for a lot of people. Hardly surprising given its history.

I don't think most of the US is aware of just how mental our situation is. Just ask a certain gun loving poster on here and I imagine he will be telling you things are going great now and would be even greater if only those pesky libtard cucks didn't keep trying to ask for legal process etc. There's a sizeable amount of protest to the craziness here but its pretty much 50/50 with most things and a sizeable amount of the protesters are as equally misinformed as those that think Donny is doing a great job making american great again.

The wife beating thing? Yeah, I see that being proposed here as well. There's always a reaction to any change that is rooted in the misconception that everything was much better back in the day when you could slap your wife if she hadn't ironed your handkerchief correctly. Just ask Sean Connery. But seriously, I meet lots of folk here who believe that if your wife or kids are not doing things the way you think they should be done, or if other people are living their life in a way you don't approve of, then the answer is to give them a kickin' or just call on your friends Smith and Western to sort it out. Macho bullshit is endemic in US culture. They, and this is partly why 'Libertarian' groups and memes are so popular, also believe that EVERYTHING that goes on in your private property is above the law. That includes beating your wife or kids. Indeed most believe that that right extends outside your private property and that its only because of those same cucks and the crazy feminists that they have to hold back from punching their 6 year old in the face when Jnr insists on daddy taking him to restroom in a restaurant just at the moment when another commercial break is about to interrupt the tedium of an American Football game he is watching.

Fortunately there's also a lot of people who think all this stuff is pretty archaic. You know, almost medieval. Which is funny cos medieval is the way these same bullies often describe the way many Islamics treat their wives and children. We are always only a few of those backwards goose-steps EGB mentions from becoming copies of those we condemn. Lynchings still happen in the US, and its less than 100 years since they were routine family events in many towns. McCarthyism is even more recent.
 
Interesting post Vasco. I tend to agree that civilisation is a fragile structure overlaid on a nature red in tooth and claw, constantly trying to reassert itself. That is precisely why the barmy trajectory of recent decades, of which the Donald is the latest chapter, is so dangerous.

As you note McCarthy has recent history and his spirit lives on in the inquisitorial nuttery of recent years which has now produced its nemesis. At least the original strain was a bad thing combatting a bad thing; now we just have bad things.

Quite surprised that even the yanks are yearning to start knocking ten bells out of wife and kids. Is that really widespread? I assume you mean more than smacking kids here, by your description ?

The American body politic - and where you lead, we follow - has in recent times been based on an accumulation of magical thinking, incoherent invented concepts and mendacity. It has allowed bullying to creep in to the way things are done, along with ridicule,Exclusion, demonisation and the age old poison of viewing people as categories rather than individuals.

It really is pitiful to watch the rage at trump from those who mainstreamed all this and so enabled him. They are as much the problem, and the US needs all parties to take a deep feckin breath and count to ten.
 
A bizarre post.

I don't think most of the US is aware of just how mental our situation is.

How mental is our situation ?

The wife beating thing? Yeah, I see that being proposed here as well.

Where aboot ?

There's always a reaction to any change that is rooted in the misconception that everything was much better back in the day when you could slap your wife if she hadn't ironed your handkerchief correctly. Just ask Sean Connery. But seriously, I meet lots of folk here who believe that if your wife or kids are not doing things the way you think they should be done, or if other people are living their life in a way you don't approve of, then the answer is to give them a kickin' or just call on your friends Smith and Western to sort it out.

You move in strange circles. It's Smith and Wesson BTW.


Macho bull$#@! is endemic in US culture. They, and this is partly why 'Libertarian' groups and memes are so popular, also believe that EVERYTHING that goes on in your private property is above the law. That includes beating your wife or kids. Indeed most believe that that right extends outside your private property and that its only because of those same cucks and the crazy feminists that they have to hold back from punching their 6 year old in the face when Jnr insists on daddy taking him to restroom in a restaurant just at the moment when another commercial break is about to interrupt the tedium of an American Football game he is watching.

Really ? What restaurants do you frequent ? It's "Football".
 
Interesting post Vasco. I tend to agree that civilisation is a fragile structure overlaid on a nature red in tooth and claw, constantly trying to reassert itself. That is precisely why the barmy trajectory of recent decades, of which the Donald is the latest chapter, is so dangerous.

As you note McCarthy has recent history and his spirit lives on in the inquisitorial nuttery of recent years which has now produced its nemesis. At least the original strain was a bad thing combatting a bad thing; now we just have bad things.

Quite surprised that even the yanks are yearning to start knocking ten bells out of wife and kids. Is that really widespread? I assume you mean more than smacking kids here, by your description ?

The American body politic - and where you lead, we follow - has in recent times been based on an accumulation of magical thinking, incoherent invented concepts and mendacity. It has allowed bullying to creep in to the way things are done, along with ridicule,Exclusion, demonisation and the age old poison of viewing people as categories rather than individuals.

It really is pitiful to watch the rage at trump from those who mainstreamed all this and so enabled him. They are as much the problem, and the US needs all parties to take a deep feckin breath and count to ten.

I live in a blue collar port town so the guys I meet are totally of the opinion that they are tough and that strength is purely a physical concept. They also don't like to stop and think about things for too long. Women's roles are still very traditional in a 1950s way here, i.e. meet a guy at high school who will get a job either as a longshoreman or a refinery worker, get married at 22 and pop out a bunch of kids then get a boob job in your 30s. This view of women is similar to what I see in my travels outside of major Cities. As I say violence/power is seen as the pathway to success in most of the US. That is why your idea that Donny and his cronies are super high-risk of assassination attempts is very real.

With regards your posts with Gun Ainm, I read it as being that if Donald overturns Roe Vs Wade many of those that complain about the barbarity or corruption of his other policies will pipe down (for a few years). To be seen as doing 'God's work' in banning abortion is a massive single issue for so many believers here. But as I say there would then be some other single issue many would then move onto after a short while but it would give Donald enough time to push through land grab policies, pipeline deals, tax evasion and other corrupt things. It would also probably be enough to allow him to backtrack on completing the wall or implementing a full immigration ban for the duration of his Presidency.

I didn't see the same media silence on Obama's Presidency that you seem to have seen. Sure, elements of the media and populace gave him carte blanche, but most of his policy and public statements, such as Obamacare, Iran Nuclear deal, maintaining Guantanamo, calling for gun control discussion, saying that racism still exists and many more things, attracted a lot of media criticism, and not just from Fox News, Wall Street Journal or Breitbart. How else could it be that 25% of the population still believes he was an ISIS plant?

- - - Updated - - -

A bizarre post.



How mental is our situation ?



Where aboot ?



You move in strange circles. It's Smith and Wesson BTW.




Really ? What restaurants do you frequent ? It's "Football".

I would say the situation is mental because the nation was founded on the idea of checks and balances and we now have a President that does not want to honour that. Other Presidents have done this at times but never as blatantly as this. Its also mental because there seems to be very little desire for people to debate these issues and instead most people are entrenching themselves and not wanting to discuss solutions / new ideas.

You misunderstood what I meant about the wife beating proposal, probably due to the way I wrote it. I wrote "I see that being proposed here" meaning "I can see that getting proposed here at some stage". I haven't seen it formally proposed yet but as I say I seen the idea of violence frequently proposed as a solution to issues on public community forums. I also see people saying and acting out what I would call old fashioned things with regards women's roles in society. Thanks for correcting my gun manufacturer name. Point stands though, violence is definitely seen by many as a legitimate response to things they don't like/agree with.

Probably many similar places to you. Its American Football on a Scottish Football forum. Very few of the places I go show Soccer.
 
I would say the situation is mental because the nation was founded on the idea of checks and balances and we now have a President that does not want to honour that. Other Presidents have done this at times but never as blatantly as this. Its also mental because there seems to be very little desire for people to debate these issues and instead most people are entrenching themselves and not wanting to discuss solutions / new ideas.

What are you talking about ? If you are referring to his EO on the travel ban, aren't we seeing the checks and balances in action right now as it makes its way through the courts ?

You misunderstood what I meant about the wife beating proposal, probably due to the way I wrote it. I wrote "I see that being proposed here" meaning "I can see that getting proposed here at some stage". I haven't seen it formally proposed yet but as I say I seen the idea of violence frequently proposed as a solution to issues on public community forums. I also see people saying and acting out what I would call old fashioned things with regards women's roles in society.

I can't say I have picked up on this but this is Trump's fault ?

Thanks for correcting my gun manufacturer name. Point stands though, violence is definitely seen by many as a legitimate response to things they don't like/agree with.

This is not new and exists in every part of the world. I've seen more violence in pubs and on the streets in Edinburgh than I have ever seen here.

Probably many similar places to you.

Doesn't sound like any of the places I frequent.


Its American Football on a Scottish Football forum. Very few of the places I go show Soccer.

Removing tongue from cheek.
 
What are you talking about ? If you are referring to his EO on the travel ban, aren't we seeing the checks and balances in action right now as it makes its way through the courts ?



I can't say I have picked up on this but this is Trump's fault ?



This is not new and exists in every part of the world. I've seen more violence in pubs and on the streets in Edinburgh than I have ever seen here.



Doesn't sound like any of the places I frequent.




Removing tongue from cheek.

Firstly, I'm not saying everything is Trump's fault. Misogyny and violence towards women existed long before Donald Jnr and will last long after he is gone. I would also have thought my Sean Connery reference and the fact the OP is about Russia made it clear that this is not a problem specific to places Donald Trump is President of. The fact that he has hit at least one of his wives (and then later somehow persuaded her to play down this fact) and that he has spoken of wanting to physically attack other people who say things he doesn't like would however mean that he is not exactly likely to address violence against women or violence in general. Or maybe it is as he's now saying that the kind of anger that in the past made him hit his wife, is something he can control as he doesn't have to hit people he doesn't like - however the images of him encouraging people at his rallies to physically abuse protesters would suggest although he kinda controls his own violent tendencies it has not stopped violence in his name.

The point you make about the judges blocking his ban on immigrants from certain countries doesn't prove he is going to honour the system. It will be interesting to see how many of the judges blocking the ban get hounded out their jobs and whether Donald just issues another EO that overrides the judges rulings. I'd love it if checks and balances truly worked but as every President has loaded the Supreme Court we know it doesn't work perfectly and there's strong indications that Donald will weaken it ever more.

Didn't realise your football comment was a joke, thought you'd totally swallowed the kool-aid and forgotten your San Siro roots.
 
The point you make about the judges blocking his ban on immigrants from certain countries doesn't prove he is going to honour the system.

It's not a "ban on immigrants". It is a temporary ban (90 or 120 days) on travel for people from seven countries.

It will be interesting to see how many of the judges blocking the ban get hounded out their jobs and whether Donald just issues another EO that overrides the judges rulings.
It will depend on whether the judges are ruling based on the law or not.


Didn't realise your football comment was a joke, thought you'd totally swallowed the kool-aid and forgotten your San Siro roots.

It's the old joke about how "Chinese food" is just called food in China. The Smith and Wesson was tongue in cheek too. :thumbgrin
 
This is not new and exists in every part of the world. I've seen more violence in pubs and on the streets in Edinburgh than I have ever seen here.

This seems at odds with Trump's claims that violence - particularly murder - is massively on the increase in the USA.
 
With regards your posts with Gun Ainm, I read it as being that if Donald overturns Roe Vs Wade many of those that complain about the barbarity or corruption of his other policies will pipe down (for a few years). To be seen as doing 'God's work' in banning abortion is a massive single issue for so many believers here. But as I say there would then be some other single issue many would then move onto after a short while but it would give Donald enough time to push through land grab policies, pipeline deals, tax evasion and other corrupt things. It would also probably be enough to allow him to backtrack on completing the wall or implementing a full immigration ban for the duration of his Presidency.

thats exactly what i was getting at - if the legality of abortion is so significant an issue, and it is equated to saving the lives of 100's of 1000s of people in the conciousness of the country (or part of it), then that is a hugely powerful factor in maintaining support for Trump. Now obviously I don't view abortion in that way but if millions of Americans do it potentially makes Trump far more resilient (if he can deliver).
 
thats exactly what i was getting at - if the legality of abortion is so significant an issue, and it is equated to saving the lives of 100's of 1000s of people in the conciousness of the country (or part of it), then that is a hugely powerful factor in maintaining support for Trump. Now obviously I don't view abortion in that way but if millions of Americans do it potentially makes Trump far more resilient (if he can deliver).

Ok but that's not the point I was making, and I thought you were asking me about the point I was making! You could be right - it would certainly be a huge thing, arguably the biggest humanitarian step since ending slavery; but it would also be opposed with a level of ferocity only a notch or two down from the defence of that status quo. Those opposed to change would include swathes of his current support. I wonder if he'd really pick this fight - even with majority opinion on his side, it's kind of the ultimate issue for the elite just as it is for the Bible Belt (and every bit as much a religious issue) - when he's not a supporter himself.

I think his most likely 'big move' (and it would be as massive in an entirely different way) is if he is able to significantly reverse offshoring of American jobs. It would be hard for his opponents to attack him on this ground as well, without them seeming to be elitists with bells on.
 
Ok but that's not the point I was making, and I thought you were asking me about the point I was making! You could be right - it would certainly be a huge thing, arguably the biggest humanitarian step since ending slavery; but it would also be opposed with a level of ferocity only a notch or two down from the defence of that status quo. Those opposed to change would include swathes of his current support. I wonder if he'd really pick this fight - even with majority opinion on his side, it's kind of the ultimate issue for the elite just as it is for the Bible Belt (and every bit as much a religious issue) - when he's not a supporter himself.

I think his most likely 'big move' (and it would be as massive in an entirely different way) is if he is able to significantly reverse offshoring of American jobs. It would be hard to his opponents to attack him on this ground as well, without them seeming to be elitists with bells on.

yeah sorry i kinda partially agreed with your point on the hysteria in sections of the press and esp social media - and jumped 2 footed off on a tangent. should probably set those up better;P