Will China Pay?

[MSG_07]

Bird Flu, SARS and now Corona within the past 20 years or so out of China... Thousands either sick or dead as a result. People losing their jobs with economies in tatters not to mention mass disruption worldwide. Peoples lives ruined.

I noticed one of the journalists asked the question but did not get a response during the press conference today. Obviously it's not what's most important at the current time but the Chinese government definitely need to be made to pay for what they've done. My guess is they probably won't.

 

[aggie]

These fcukin wet markets need dealt with at the very least. Fcuk any "culture" argument. This is bigger than China, ffs.

 

[1 Mcnamara]

You can just hear the Donald saying exactly that.

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

These fcukin wet markets need dealt with at the very least. Fcuk any "culture" argument. This is bigger than China, ffs.

I personally would be delighted if every 'wet market' throughout the world , along with every slaughterhouse and every other aspect of the 'Meat is Murder' industry disappeared tomorrow, enjoy the chlorinated chicken when it comes this way folks.....however

Why shutting down Chinese ‘wet markets’ could be a terrible mistake

Exotic and sensational depictions of Chinese “wet markets” may prevent a proper and efficient understanding of how viral diseases emerge.

theconversation.com

BIG G

 

[aggie]

You can just hear the Donald saying exactly that.

You disagree? Cheap shot unless you've got a cogent counterargument.

 

[aggie]

I personally would be delighted if every 'wet market' throughout the world , along with every slaughterhouse and every other aspect of the 'Meat is Murder' industry disappeared tomorrow, enjoy the chlorinated chicken when it comes this way folks.....however

Why shutting down Chinese ‘wet markets’ could be a terrible mistake

Exotic and sensational depictions of Chinese “wet markets” may prevent a proper and efficient understanding of how viral diseases emerge.

theconversation.com

BIG G

And this is not a cogent counterargument (having just read it), leaving aside the related but not immediately relevant vegan argument for all 'meat trade', as it were, to be done away with.

"China’s economic development has not led to a demise in Chinese forms of consumption, such as the desire for “warm meat”, and has not ushered in European and American cultural norms of what is eatable and what is not."

See, I knew it: "Cultural norms". Spare me – we are not talking about cultural norms here, and you know it – and the writer of the article probably knows it too, because at no point does he address the fact that "cultural norms" is a quite different concern from "basic health and safety". The issue is live cross-contamination, and if you wanted to create the perfect conditions for that, then you would come up with something along the lines of the Chinese markets: live species, wild and domestic, often stacked ontop of each other in open cages etc.

Well, actually, the writer does finally address it in his last lines: "What “wet markets” in China require is more scientific and evidence-based regulation, rather than being abolished and driven underground." I quite agree, and that's exactly what I said; I just didn't feel the need to couch it in terms of such regulation being an afterthought to the apparently more important issue of some nasty colonial project by the terrible West.

I say again: fuck the cultural norms. This is a global health issue, and the cultural norms in this instance are a completely subordinate issue. The science is clear, so they need to act on it. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hibs Soldier]

Is there any proof that the virus originated from the wet market?

 

[Jack]

Is there any proof that the virus originated from the wet market?

Everything is pointing to it and China, as far as I'm aware, aren't denying it. Scientifically the odds are there too.

 

[MSG_07]

Everything is pointing to it and China, as far as I'm aware, aren't denying it. Scientifically the odds are there too.

Read a couple of articles online from a Chinese perspective and they don't feel they should be apologising for anything either. As we know this isn't the first time China have caused such a problem. What will happen next if something isn't done? Half the planet wiped out with the next virus?

 

[GORDONSMITH7]

And this is not a cogent counterargument (having just read it), leaving aside the related but not immediately relevant vegan argument for all 'meat trade', as it were, to be done away with.

"China’s economic development has not led to a demise in Chinese forms of consumption, such as the desire for “warm meat”, and has not ushered in European and American cultural norms of what is eatable and what is not."

See, I knew it: "Cultural norms". Spare me – we are not talking about cultural norms here, and you know it – and the writer of the article probably knows it too, because at no point does he address the fact that "cultural norms" is a quite different concern from "basic health and safety". The issue is live cross-contamination, and if you wanted to create the perfect conditions for that, then you would come up with something along the lines of the Chinese markets: live species, wild and domestic, often stacked ontop of each other in open cages etc.

Well, actually, the writer does finally address it in his last lines: "What “wet markets” in China require is more scientific and evidence-based regulation, rather than being abolished and driven underground." I quite agree, and that's exactly what I said; I just didn't feel the need to couch it in terms of such regulation being an afterthought to the apparently more important issue of some nasty colonial project by the terrible West.

I say again: fuck the cultural norms. This is a global health issue, and the cultural norms in this instance are a completely subordinate issue. The science is clear, so they need to act on it. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

'regulation being an afterthought to the apparently more important issue of some nasty colonial project by the terrible West.'

Can you point out where this is said by the authors ?

One a Senior Lecturer, anthropologist, University of St Andrews, Christos Lynteris is a medical anthropologist. His research focuses on the anthropological and historical examination of infectious disease epidemics, animal to human infection (zoonosis), medical visual culture, epidemiological epistemology,

Lyle Fearnley is Assistant Professor of Anthropology at Singapore University . Trained as an anthropologist of science and medicine, Fearnley received a Joint Ph.D. in Medical Anthropology from the University of California, Berkeley and San Francisco. His first book, 'Virulent Zones: Animal Disease and Global Health at China's Pandemic Epicenter,' will be published in October 2020.

Couple of mugs.

BIG G

 

[aggie]

'regulation being an afterthought to the apparently more important issue of some nasty colonial project by the terrible West.'

Can you point out where this is said by the authors ?

One a Senior Lecturer, anthropologist, University of St Andrews, Christos Lynteris is a medical anthropologist. His research focuses on the anthropological and historical examination of infectious disease epidemics, animal to human infection (zoonosis), medical visual culture, epidemiological epistemology,

Lyle Fearnley is Assistant Professor of Anthropology at Singapore University . Trained as an anthropologist of science and medicine, Fearnley received a Joint Ph.D. in Medical Anthropology from the University of California, Berkeley and San Francisco. His first book, 'Virulent Zones: Animal Disease and Global Health at China's Pandemic Epicenter,' will be published in October 2020.

Couple of mugs.

BIG G

"But the focus on exotic food consumption in China often relies on Orientalisation, and is in some cases tinged with anti-Chinese sentiment."

Note they don't deny that these wet markets represent a significant source of viral outbreaks. With that in mind, I fail to see how they adequately connect this with the above sentiment (because that's what it is: a sentiment, not an argument).

As far as I'm concerned, and I'd wager the vast majority of folk are the same, "Orientalisation" has feckall to do with it – if these markets were in France, Chile, Tuvalu, or Croydon, I'd feel exactly the same: they represent a global health risk, and as such should be abolished. NB: no one is suggesting abolishing markets entirely, rather the point is to abolish the "wet" aspect.

I repeat: nothing in the article appears to cogently refute the necessity of this. Rather, there's a straw man argument based on the economic function of markets in general - which does not depend on markets remaining "wet". Other than that, there's the somewhat woolly invocation (as above) of "Orientalisation", which is a symptom of a mindset very prevalent in modern academe, i.e. a general discomfort in admitting that – shock, horror – there are certain areas where the West is demonstrably superior. For my money, health and safety is quite patently one of those areas, and consequently we absolutely should be propagating our standards in this field.

The rather flimsy argument appears to hinge on the fact that (and I quote again): "'Wet markets' form an integral part of the Chinese market and of Chinese social life." So fuckin what? So did public hangings not so long ago (and not just in China). The fact remains that they're not just barbaric, but dangerous to everyone on the planet, a fact the authors do not deny.

 

[Rocky]

I agree with you. Cultural norms covers the fact that some nations like to eat dugs and horses (and some people would be appalled at us eating coos). But if the means of selling, preparing, breeding etc represents a health risk then that needs global action to stop it pronto. I can't remember what the root cause of BSE was (something about feeding mushed up animal bits to other animals I seem to recall) but we became pretty much a pariah state because of that and legislation was quickly changed to prevent it happening again. Same needs to be true of wet markets if the evidence supports it.

 

[1 Mcnamara]

Is there any proof that the virus originated from the wet market?

Aggie seems the expert on this front.

 

[Rocky]

Dunno if it'll make any odds but I just saw a petition on Facebook:

Sign the Petition

Demanding The Closure of Live Animal Markets in China

www.change.org

 

[aggie]

Aggie seems the expert on this front.

10/10 for snark.

Are you about to seriously deny that a) they have not been a confirmed source of similar outbreaks before, regardless of this current one, and b) that they represent a clear, present, and unambiguous risk in terms of future outbreaks?

Because if not, I don't see why you're giving me the sarcastic treatment.

 

[Doc Shrink]

Aggie seems the expert on this front.

I doubt if he's 'the expert' but he puts up a pretty persuasive argument.

 

[emerald green]

Its not the wet markets themselves per se, it is the conditions within them. Lets not, for example stack chickens in wire cages on top of ferrets in wire cages. These species love to share viruses etc between their species.... these species love to fire their viruses onto humans.

Viruses such as SARS, MERS etc can be "mapped" with a very high degree of accuracy (think carbon dating in other fields) and edpidemiologists can nail this fucker down to around the 3rd week in November 2019!

Social media is also awash with anti-chinese rhetoric about this virus... Books written by Chinese Generals years ago on a biological/ total war with the west (standard in any military to have volumes written on all aspects of warfare) being taken as a precursor to this SARS Covid-2.... they did this to the world after losing out massively against the US in the last few years (a long awaited realignment from a US point of view).. so they have engineered this to fuck everyones economy... Their economy has taken a hefty kick in the balls, the same as every other economy! Chinas economy is around half of the USA, but they are the largest exporter in the world, and in a pandemic, there will definately be an upturn in them supplying medical aid!

China will pay? Gies peace!

I tell you who will pay tho' : the old and infirm, the poor and the innocent.

There is no time for blame here. This fucker needs smashed, the human race to date has NO CURE at all and we have BILLIONS of people staying at home because if they dont and it goes unchecked, we are fucked.

Keep the heid bounce radges, keep laughing at the Gunts for shagging their sisters.

 

[MSG_07]

10/10 for snark.

Are you about to seriously deny that a) they have not been a confirmed source of similar outbreaks before, regardless of this current one, and b) that they represent a clear, present, and unambiguous risk in terms of future outbreaks?

Because if not, I don't see why you're giving me the sarcastic treatment.

Maybe he's Chinese?