welfare is your problem, say communists

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They might have discipline but Chinese kids tend to have little ability to think creatively.

I'm also not sure that welfare is the single cause of the lack of discipline in our schools. They might have some sort of point but the answer isn't that the kids are thinking they don't have to try because they'll be looked after anyway. The richest kids are the ones who don't really need to try but I'd wager there aren't many discipline problems in Fettes.

The problem, which is touched on, is more likely to be more complex with the breakdown of family and community caused by various government policies over the years being up there. In China they often live in traditional families with several generations under one roof.
 
hibadelic said:
They might have discipline but Chinese kids tend to have little ability to think creatively.

I'm also not sure that welfare is the single cause of the lack of discipline in our schools. They might have some sort of point but the answer isn't that the kids are thinking they don't have to try because they'll be looked after anyway. The richest kids are the ones who don't really need to try but I'd wager there aren't many discipline problems in Fettes.

The problem, which is touched on, is more likely to be more complex with the breakdown of family and community caused by various government policies over the years being up there. In China they often live in traditional families with several generations under one roof.
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I think you're onto something with the last bit; but government policies or the '60s revolution', what do you think is the biggest factor? Whichever, they're both in the mix and the latter influences the former. The continuing erosion of marriage and the family is certainly suicidal for welfare and possibly for society as we ken it. And closing the circle, welfare is one area where policy has certainly enabled it; no 60s revolution was possible without it. So maybe the cunning confucians are no so daft.
 
breakdown in social discipline as already mentioned likely to be more complex than tagging welfare - Personally I think although family structure is important the key is urbanisation and the breakdown of community (the wider, non biological family - if I could put it like that). Cities can be liberating to an individual but they are also isolating and chaotic. Thatcher probably had something to do with it an all :rascal:
 
egb_hibs said:
I think you're onto something with the last bit; but government policies or the '60s revolution', what do you think is the biggest factor? Whichever, they're both in the mix and the latter influences the former. The continuing erosion of marriage and the family is certainly suicidal for welfare and possibly for society as we ken it. And closing the circle, welfare is one area where policy has certainly enabled it; no 60s revolution was possible without it. So maybe the cunning confucians are no so daft.
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Ha, you could be right. I suspect that it's something that's inevitable in a modern, capitalist society and that the Chinese just have a few decades of catchup before they get there. The massive increase in number of hours worked per family in this country has probably more to do with it than welfare though.

Edit: I just realised that in my rush to blame our terrible governmental decision making I've neglected to consider how discipline is maintained in each country. Chinese kids are well aware that if they misbehave, they may well face corporal punishment.

Also, from my experience in teaching in Taiwanese high schools, they're not all well behaved little angels. Some schools / classes are just as bad as you'd generally find here. Or at least they are when they get a whiff of an inexperienced foreigner supply teacher taking a class of 40 for an hour ;-)
 
gun ainm said:
breakdown in social discipline as already mentioned likely to be more complex than tagging welfare - Personally I think although family structure is important the key is urbanisation and the breakdown of community (the wider, non biological family - if I could put it like that). Cities can be liberating to an individual but they are also isolating and chaotic. Thatcher probably had something to do with it an all :rascal:
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Sorry R, but the trajectory on all these things goes back to the 60s reforms, not the thatcher 80s.

On a bigger canvas, you're probably onto something urbanisation, but we were coping with it until the sons of the aga rose up around 1968.
 
On the wireless this morning it was suggested the biggest difference in maintaining discipline in schools UK/China is the ethos behind schooling and the examinations.

In the UK the idea is to produce young adults ready in a rounded way for the road ahead.

In China it's all about the exams, which apparently make ours look like Sunday School quizzes, and Hell mend anything that detracts from them.
 
Jack said:
On the wireless this morning it was suggested the biggest difference in maintaining discipline in schools UK/China is the ethos behind schooling and the examinations.

In the UK the idea is to produce young adults ready in a rounded way for the road ahead.

In China it's all about the exams, which apparently make ours look like Sunday School quizzes, and Hell mend anything that detracts from them.
Click to expand...

which means that Chinese students are the ones prepared for 'the road ahead' whatever we think we mean by such management speak.
 
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