Vote for 16 year olds

[egb_hibs]

Poor old Labour. Finally succeeded in the long term left of centre goal to extend the vote to kids, where their simplistic sentiment driven politics have a built in advantage (even before we get to the many ways kids are groomed in their favour).

...and they've achieved it just in time for the simplistic sentiment driven politics of Reform to be the beneficiary

 

[Sancho Panza]

Poor old Labour. Finally succeeded in the long term left of centre goal to extend the vote to kids, where their simplistic sentiment driven politics have a built in advantage (even before we get to the many ways kids are groomed in their favour).

...and they've achieved it just in time for the simplistic sentiment driven politics of Reform to be the beneficiary

I think it should go further and extend the franchise to four year olds. I mean, if they can understand their gender identity at that age, then they can surely understand monetary policy.

 

[egb_hibs]

I think it should go further and extend the franchise to four year olds. I mean, if they can understand their gender identity at that age, then they can surely understand monetary policy.

Good effort Sanch, but you in are in a realm where satire is a wholly inadequate tool

Should we give babies the right to vote?

Strange as it may seem, it’s hard to refute the arguments for truly universal suffrage

www.theguardian.com

 

[Two Headed Boy]

If you can start paying income tax and NI at that age you should get a say in how it is spent, no?

 

[emerald green]

If you can start paying income tax and NI at that age you should get a say in how it is spent, no?

now now THB....

 

[egb_hibs]

If you can start paying income tax and NI at that age you should get a say in how it is spent, no?

Careful with that argument as an obvious retort is; maybe only net tax contributors should get the vote, or at any rate, non tax payers shouldn't.

 

[emerald green]

You would think that all grown adults were smarter than all 16year olds.....

 

[Jack]

If you can start paying income tax and NI at that age you should get a say in how it is spent, no?

To be fair you start paying income tax as soon as the personal allowances are used up, no matter what age you are. National Insurance is paid on any earned income, sort of.

But there's no reasonable reason why 16 year olds shouldn't be able to vote. As illustrated by the laughable posts above.

 

[Two Headed Boy]

Careful with that argument as an obvious retort is; maybe only net tax contributors should get the vote, or at any rate, non tax payers shouldn't.

Well, I suppose I should clarify that can is the operative word in my previous statement.

At 16 you can get a job, pay tax, get married, join the army... become a functioning member of society. So yeah I'm fine those people getting a say in how that society treats them.

 

[egb_hibs]

You would think that all grown adults were smarter than all 16year olds.....

I wouldn't think that EGers. Presenting this as an 'argument' being a demonstration of the point

Only kidding dude, but the fact that you could argue that some adults aren't smart enough to vote doesnt really make a case for giving the vote to kids with no lite experience.

 

[emerald green]

I wouldn't think that EGers. Presenting this as an 'argument' being a demonstration of the point

Only kidding dude, but the fact that you could argue that some adults aren't smart enough to vote doesnt really make a case for giving the vote to kids with no lite experience.

aye ok

 

[egb_hibs]

Well, I suppose I should clarify that can is the operative word in my previous statement.

At 16 you can get a job, pay tax, get married, join the army... become a functioning member of society. So yeah I'm fine those people getting a say in how that society treats them.

Or can't drink a beer, get a tattoo, get married without parental consent etc.

Legally its a bit of a movable feast then, a kludge reflecting a kludgy period of transition.

I think this is a better argument than the tax one though. Only around a half of the adult population pay for stuff, indeed probably less.

 

[emerald green]

Still, pushes the Indepent support eh lads

 

[egb_hibs]

To be fair you start paying income tax as soon as the personal allowances are used up, no matter what age you are. National Insurance is paid on any earned income, sort of.

But there's no reasonable reason why 16 year olds shouldn't be able to vote. As illustrated by the laughable posts above.

What's laughable Jack, or would you prefer not to say?

 

[Jack]

What's laughable Jack, or would you prefer not to say?

You can read it again if you like.

 

[egb_hibs]

Still, pushes the Indepent support eh lads

It would. For the same reason as it will push Reform support, and would once have benefitted Labour. As above, simplistic and sentimental appeals will have an advantage with those who have no life experience.

Note I am not saying those simplistic and sentimental appeals are ultimately right or wrong, which is a different question.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Well it would be a good life lesson for them when they see that what they vote for doesn't always mean that that's what you get.

They will get an early life experience that will set them on course to no bother voting as they get older.

And if 16 year olds can vote then they can stand as candidates in elections.

Get the snout in the trough at a young age.

 

[egb_hibs]

You can read it again if you like.

I have. It didnt illuminate things further.

 

[emerald green]

It would. For the same reason as it will push Reform support, and would once have benefitted Labour. As above, simplistic and sentimental appeals will have an advantage with those who have no life experience.

Note I am not saying those simplistic and sentimental appeals are ultimately right or wrong, which is a different question.

So life experience is the driver of your arguement? im sure everyones is different eh?

 

[emerald green]

Well it would be a good life lesson for them when they see that what they vote for doesn't always mean that that's what you get.

They will get an early life experience that will set them on course to no bother voting as they get older.

And if 16 year olds can vote then they can stand as candidates in elections.

Get the snout in the trough at a young age.

and the pensions all these candidates will get from 16 tae jimmy

 

[egb_hibs]

So life experience is the driver of your arguement? im sure everyones is different eh?

Yes everyone's is different. But it can be said with some confidence that school leavers don't have it. If life experience is not relevant youre left with guardianista dingbats advocating votes for babies.

I'd argue its pretty much the only relevant criteria we have once we have decided on universal suffrage - and tax based arguments are a bit shaky in this case, because restricting the vote to net contributors was one of the historic barriers to it. Some citizens may live to a hundred and still be dafties you wouldn't put in charge of boiling a kettle, but there's not much to be done about that really.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

Yep they can fill the trough until it overflows EG.

Pity no fucker told us when we were 16 that the state pension would be shite and a private pension would be needed.

And look at the money that would be saved because they are too young to drink in the cheap boozers in the various parliaments.

And they wouldn't need taxis or cars because they have a free bus pass.

Yippee

 

[Jack]

I have. It didnt illuminate things further.

Lost your sense of humour between the two posts?

 

[Westside Green]

Or can't drink a beer, get a tattoo, get married without parental consent etc.

Legally its a bit of a movable feast then, a kludge reflecting a kludgy period of transition.

I think this is a better argument than the tax one though. Only around a half of the adult population pay for stuff, indeed probably less.

I thought you could get married in Scotland at 16 without parental consent?

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

They should be able to get married at 16 and see the (sometimes) hell their ma's and dad's suffered

 

[emerald green]

Yep they can fill the trough until it overflows EG.

Pity no fucker told us when we were 16 that the state pension would be shite and a private pension would be needed.

And look at the money that would be saved because they are too young to drink in the cheap boozers in the various parliaments.

And they wouldn't need taxis or cars because they have a free bus pass.

Yippee

What are you bothered about? Thgought there was nae point and the ballots should be spoiled?

Or is that no the case?

 

[emerald green]

Yep they can fill the trough until it overflows EG.

Pity no fucker told us when we were 16 that the state pension would be shite and a private pension would be needed.

And look at the money that would be saved because they are too young to drink in the cheap boozers in the various parliaments.

And they wouldn't need taxis or cars because they have a free bus pass.

Yippee.

...but when you were aware (because its not a new thing), what did you do about it?

 

[emerald green]

Yes everyone's is different. But it can be said with some confidence that school leavers don't have it. If life experience is not relevant youre left with guardianista dingbats advocating votes for babies.

We are?
"guardianista dingbats" this mythical enemy you have "fought"over keyboards, are mainly in your head

I'd argue its pretty much the only relevant criteria we have once we have decided on universal suffrage - and tax based arguments are a bit shaky in this case, because restricting the vote to net contributors was one of the historic barriers to it. Some citizens may live to a hundred and still be dafties you wouldn't put in charge of boiling a kettle, but there's not much to be done about that really.

Its going to be ok i think. Its not so long ago you were furiously typing about there being no point in voting and that the spoiling of the vote is the only way. You seem to have a lot to say about something your no really bothered about

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

What are you bothered about? Thgought there was nae point and the ballots should be spoiled?

Or is that no the case?

I said there should be a none of the above choice on the ballot paper.

And I'm no bothered if they vote or not. I posted because I felt like it.

Hope that's ok?

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

...but when you were aware (because its not a new thing), what did you do about it?

Had a small sum that was put into a pension thingy by a firm I worked for.

Is that ok?

 

[Jack]

Yep they can fill the trough until it overflows EG.

Pity no fucker told us when we were 16 that the state pension would be shite and a private pension would be needed.

And look at the money that would be saved because they are too young to drink in the cheap boozers in the various parliaments.

And they wouldn't need taxis or cars because they have a free bus pass.

Yippee

The government has suggested it would to a good idea when they started fucking about with pensions in general. Thatcher was the PM.

AI
The UK government has consistently encouraged private pension saving through various policy changes and initiatives, particularly from the 1980s onwards, with a focus on tax relief and, more recently, auto-enrolment. The Pensions Act 1995 introduced stakeholder pensions, and the Pensions Act 2008 paved the way for auto-enrolment, which started in 2012.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

All well and good but on building sites geezers never gave pensions much thought.

You grafted and got your state pension at the end of the working life. Like your ma and dad did.

Maybe it could have been better explained.

Listen if folk have decent private pensions then good luck to them.

I'm of the opinion though that if you are shite at the job you shouldn't be rewarded by getting money stuck away for you.

Polis who fit people up on bogus charges? Why the fuck should they get a work pension when they stuck some poor innocent fucker in jail.

Or some grifting politico ?

 

[egb_hibs]

We are?

We are what?

"guardianista dingbats" this mythical enemy you have "fought"over keyboards, are mainly in your head

EGers please refer to post #3.

As ever, i'm referring to a real, existing thing, not waffing away on 'my truth'

Its going to be ok i think. Its not so long ago you were furiously typing about there being no point in voting and that the spoiling of the vote is the only way. You seem to have a lot to say about something your no really bothered about

Not furiously for a start, I'm not one of the board's mr angry's. If you recall, the point was about disenfranchisement - as with many others i dont feel aligned with any of the options. I'm not sure this will be improved by politicians pitching to kids, given that part of the problem is the existing unrealism that pervades our process.

 

[egb_hibs]

I thought you could get married in Scotland at 16 without parental consent?

You're right I forgot we were different. But its under review, which is a bit odd given the SNP also support votes for 16 year olds

Scottish government to look at raising the minimum age for marriage to 18

Marriage laws in Scotland currently allow those aged 16 and 17 to wed without parental consent.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Westside Green]

You're right I forgot we were different. But its under review, which is a bit odd given the SNP also support votes for 16 year olds

Scottish government to look at raising the minimum age for marriage to 18

Marriage laws in Scotland currently allow those aged 16 and 17 to wed without parental consent.

www.bbc.co.uk

I remember hearing something about it being brought into line with England then nothing happening.

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

...but when you were aware (because its not a new thing), what did you do about it?

Jack I just want to clarify something. If folk have grafted all their days and receive their pension and a private pension I have no problem with that at all.

The point I'm trying to get over is when incompetent people get rewarded big time for being shite at what they do.

Corrupt bizzies, crap teachers, CEO's of huge companies who run up debts of £millions.

They do not deserve to be 'looked after'.

 

[emerald green]

Had a small sum that was put into a pension thingy by a firm I worked for.

Is that ok?

course its ok. why would you ask?

Are you jealous of everybody who has a pension?

 

[emerald green]

Jack I just want to clarify something. If folk have grafted all their days and receive their pension and a private pension I have no problem with that at all.

The point I'm trying to get over is when incompetent people get rewarded big time for being shite at what they do.

Corrupt bizzies, crap teachers, CEO's of huge companies who run up debts of £millions.

They do not deserve to be 'looked after'.

am no jack mate.

 

[emerald green]

I said there should be a none of the above choice on the ballot paper.

And I'm no bothered if they vote or not. I posted because I felt like it.

Hope that's ok?

anything you do is ok mate. Just enjoy yersel when you're doing it

 

[EH17 Jimmy]

course its ok. why would you ask?

Are you jealous of everybody who has a pension?

Nope. Only cvnts who are useless at what they do and get rewarded.

Why would I be jealous of someone who worked all their life and have a pension?