US Presidential Campaign

[Brainwrong]

I like the cut of Bernie Sanders' jib. Sounds like a yank Tony Benn. Doubt he'll get much exposure in the US MSN though which is dispiriting.

First time I've been interested (in a positive sense) in US politics for, possibly, ever. They've had such a depressingly long line of arseholes in charge, my lifespan in US politics pretty much begins in the trickle down pish of the Reagan / Thatcher love-in.

Do you think Bernie can overcome? Do you want him to?

Interested particularly in our Yank based bouncers opinions.

Thoughts?

 

[egb_hibs]

I don't know enough about the guy to comment but if your Benn comparison holds water then I kinda despair.

Would you really like to see Tony Benn as US president? Seriously? It's this kind of thing, along with the likes of gun ainms foaming but not engaging with the points on the austerity thread, which makes me wonder if some educated Middle class folk prefer fantasy over the uncomfortable realities presented by the real world.

C'mon, benn was a nice guy but wrong about everything and clung to juvenile reactionary politics long after everyone else moved on. Which is why he ended his days as a figure mostly admired by and marketed to pop stars and their callow audiences. A benn at the controls of the USA beggars belief.

[/end rant] the real problem in the USA, even more than here, is that no one can become presidential candidate if they don't fit approved moulds. As the two parties have become a rag bag of ever more contradictory interest groups this situation just gets worse. Then there's the emerging dynastic elements and the financial clout required - though Obama demonstrated how to deal with this tbf, even as he also demonstrated the system producing an empty suit because he ticked a bunch of pc boxes.

Reagan was actually a great president of you look at what he achieved rather than all the luvvie propaganda we were fed as kids. The likes of him wouldn't get a sniff today as he was far too open and honest before we get to his politics - a democrat from the left of the party would suffer equally with the same personality. Meanwhile seedy manipulators like Clinton are still lionised because they play the game masterfully. Sad state of affairs.

 

[Brainwrong]

Quick response; he's not entirely the same as Tony Benn in the sense you've interpreted my post. I wasn't very clear. What I meant was, he seems to be a conviction politician. He has a few very simple points that would bring the US in line with pretty standard European standards that are obviously commie anathema to the MSN and right of centre establishment in the US.

I've not read your whole post yet, busy as feck at work, will read properly at lunchtime...

 

[Brainwrong]

Income and Wealth Inequality - Bernie Sanders

The good news is that the economy today is much better than when President George W. Bush left office. The bad news is that despite improvements the 40-year decline of the American middle class continues. Real unemployment is much too high, tens of millions of Americans still lack health insurance, and more of our friends and neighbors are living in poverty than at almost any time in the modern history of our country.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/money-in-politics/

Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom to buy the United States government. Oil companies, pharmaceutical manufacturers, Wall Street bankers and other powerful special interests have poured money into our political system for years. In 2010, a bad situation turned worse. In a 5-4 decision in the Citizens United case, the Supreme Court opened the floodgates for corporations and the wealthy to spend unlimited and undisclosed money to buy our elected officials. The Supreme Court essentially declared that corporations have the same rights as natural-born human beings.
Our democracy is under fierce attack. Billionaire families are now able to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the candidates of their choice. These people own most of the economy. Now they want to own our government as well. The Koch brothers, the second wealthiest family in America, plan to spend some $900 million in the coming 2016 election more money than either of our major parties spent in the last election. That is not democracy. That is oligarchy. To restore our one person-one vote democracy, Congress must pass a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United and move toward public funding of elections.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/climate-change/


The United States must lead the world in tackling climate change to make certain that this planet is habitable for our children and grandchildren. We must transform our energy system away from polluting fossil fuels and towards energy efficiency and sustainability. Millions of homes and buildings need to be weatherized and we need to greatly accelerate technological progress in wind and solar power generation.
Unless we take bold action to address climate change, our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren are going to look back on this period in history and ask a very simple question: Where were they? Why didnt the United States of America, the most powerful nation on earth, lead the international community in cutting greenhouse gas emissions and preventing the devastating damage that the scientific community was sure would come?

 

[Brainwrong]

Meet Bernie Sanders

Bernie Sanders is a Democratic candidate for President of the United States. In 2006, he was elected to the U.S. Senate after 16 years as Vermonts sole congressman in the House of Representatives. Bernie is now serving his second term in the U.S. Senate after winning re-election in 2012 with 71 percent of the vote.

In Congress, Bernie has fought tirelessly for working families, focusing on the shrinking middle class and growing gap between the rich and everyone else. Bernie has been called a practical and successful legislator and he was dubbed the amendment king in the House of Representatives for passing more amendments than any other member of Congress. As chairman of the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs, Bernie worked across the aisle to bridge Washingtons toxic partisan divide and cut one of the most significant deals in years. In 2015, Democratic leadership tapped Bernie to serve as the caucus ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee.

 

[Brainwrong]

I don't know enough about the guy to comment but if your Benn comparison holds water then I kinda despair.

Would you really like to see Tony Benn as US president? Seriously? It's this kind of thing, along with the likes of gun ainms foaming but not engaging with the points on the austerity thread, which makes me wonder if some educated Middle class folk prefer fantasy over the uncomfortable realities presented by the real world.

C'mon, benn was a nice guy but wrong about everything and clung to juvenile reactionary politics long after everyone else moved on. Which is why he ended his days as a figure mostly admired by and marketed to pop stars and their callow audiences. A benn at the controls of the USA beggars belief.

[/end rant] the real problem in the USA, even more than here, is that no one can become presidential candidate if they don't fit approved moulds. As the two parties have become a rag bag of ever more contradictory interest groups this situation just gets worse. Then there's the emerging dynastic elements and the financial clout required - though Obama demonstrated how to deal with this tbf, even as he also demonstrated the system producing an empty suit because he ticked a bunch of pc boxes.

Reagan was actually a great president of you look at what he achieved rather than all the luvvie propaganda we were fed as kids. The likes of him wouldn't get a sniff today as he was far too open and honest before we get to his politics - a democrat from the left of the party would suffer equally with the same personality. Meanwhile seedy manipulators like Clinton are still lionised because they play the game masterfully. Sad state of affairs.

Tony Benn represented principled politics to me. He was on the side of the working man/person. Some policies may well have been un-implementable but he was about the only bam true to his convictions from that standpoint, on the left.

Reagan may well have done the GOP proud and reduced inflation, in fact, you're right, he was a great president. But, only for a certain section of US society. There was, in effect, a trickle down aspect due to, as I mentioned, inflation rates being reduced by about 10%. But, reducing domestic spending in favour of bonkers shite like Star Wars at worst and just general military spunkery at best puts him far below base camp in my personal estimations mountain.

I dunno, maybe we needed Reaganomics at that stage to counter the USSR, cripple Mother Russia and ultimately reduce both countries' nuclear weapons but, one nuclear weapon is too many, in my opinion. So, it's almost a moot point in my world.

Fully agree re Clinton. And, I think you're right; Reagan seemed as much of a conviction politician as Benn was (once he switched sides, when he started making money, I assume). Much more tax efficient to be a Republican, I expect. As it is here, to align yourself with ze Tories) it's just that they weren't / aren't convictions I would / will ever hold.

 

[egb_hibs]

Star Wars helped end the Cold War relatively bloodlessly. I'll take that kind of bonkers over the 57 varieties we are regularly confronted with from politicians.

I don't want to get sidetracked by Benn but I find little to admire in unreality and frivolity. That plus his authoritarian streak as a minister -
see independent radio - leaves me with the impression of your standard issue blue blooded bolshie.

I've been googling sanders since your op. Much to admire in what he says. I also agree with him on oligarchy. However the Koch bros at least provide a counterpoint to the scandalous hegemonies in universities and media which propagandise for the other side; not to mention the democrats far better resourced political machine. I'd have been more impressed if he addressed the whole.

As the US has disastrously tacked towards a European model under Bazza, just as the latter enters its death throes, I'd like to see sanders demonstrating clear differences between his democratic socialism and the post 60s disaster. The latter has decimated less affluent strata of society in the US as the UK. It has been downright catastrophic for black America - the democrats switch from being the party of the KKK to the party of progressive obsessions has made them one long disaster for American blacks, despite commanding their allegiance with welfare payments.

The western poor are stuck with a no win 'choice' that almost tempts me to conspiracy thinking. Either poverty creating social liberalism and globalisation plus hand outs or social conservatism (even then paper thin and in retreat) - the only means to self sufficiency - twinned with more globalisation and a lack of hand outs.

I would be impressed if sanders offered a genuine alternative to this false choice.

- - - Updated - - -

Ps the reason Reagan gave for switching was the democrats had become to fixated on the individual rather than collective good - he said he didn't leave them, they left him (not sure if he coined this now well worn quip). Somewhat ironic given the way the hegemony presents things.

The democrats are in fact the party of one half of the super rich including, it is rumoured, of Wall Street leaders. The latter is easy to believe as it is they who gain in a big state environment.

 

[egb_hibs]

[MENTION=1429]Brainwrong[/MENTION] - thought you might be interested in this take on sanders from an American conservative point of view. If you can get past the partisan sniping it is interesting for its exposure of the contradictions at the heart of us politics (and which are going to tear our own labour apart). In short, sanders achingly pc left wing self is driven by the logic of worker interest into nationalism where the right end up as pseudo internationalists.

This is I think the central problem for the western left; you simply cannot sustain the doublethink of representing indigenous labour and liberal left ideals at the same time. Dreamers in state jobs might happily square the circle with fantasies of global trade unions, but in the real world, voters won't satnd it as soon as there is an alternative. To be fair to Bernie he is grasping that nettle (or appears to be) where the democrats will not, but even if the allusions to national socialism are a cheap dig, the writer has a point on where it all leads (obviously Bernie is an unapologetic authoritarian in keeping with his socialism). I suggest btw this is rich Google material - allusioms are made to fascistic democrats of the past such as the priest, father coughlin. Googlr these guys and it may add a small amount to appreciating why I keep arguing that what is called the far right is historically the far left,

https://www.nationalreview.com/nrd/articles/419957/adventures-national-socialism

 

[egb_hibs]

[MENTION=1429]Brainwrong[/MENTION] and [MENTION=325]gun ainm[/MENTION] (my search for this thread also returned earlier interest from you);

This is intriguing - sanders socialist imperatives seem to be clashing with the identity politics monster (as I see it). It's always been noteworthy that sanders comes from a state of old white people, the core demographic of American liberalism as was. It seems to be getting him into bother with the identity politics of younger sorts;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...white-liberals-have-a-bernie-sanders-problem/

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...ls-discover-that-bernie-sanders-isnt-awesome/

The spectator blog points to deeper fissures - the id politics guys, in turn, don't really represent racial minorities when they try and roll together race with other id politics questions.

Ive long been suspicious at crowing about changing racial demographics is a boon for the democrat and liberal future. IMHO it will actually separate those two things. When blacks and Hispanics set the agenda rather than being the subject of patronage, the democrats surely will prosper and will also surely be decoupled from the white liberal agenda.

In the meantime, things are separating on a different axis perhaps - race vs class ideology.