The ping pong player

[gun ainm]

Interesting discussion about the failures of liberalism, tribalism and the benefits of diversity with Mathew Syed (who puts the liberal view versus the alt right leaning perspectives of the trigger boys)

Would recommend - listened today on the way down the A9, the miles melted away

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[egb_hibs]

It is very good, I posted it in the bowels of a thread the other day, but it deserves more prominence.

The trigger guys are hardly alt right, unless you’ve turned into a smear farmer R? They were, however, flapping in the face of Syed’s argument - which mirrors a point I often make - that no government could tell people ‘how it is’ and be electable. I think the trigger viewpoint, that people know things are fucked and want politics engaged with that is correct only up until the point that the necessary implications are pointed out.

As I noted on the other thread, Syed is pretty reality grounded for a capitalist cheerleader, and sharper than both of them I think. Again he mirrored Aggie to a T in his description of us fucking over future generations to keep the party going for the privileged generations and an unsustainable way of life. In this of course he echoed conservatives like Burke more than the liberal tradition.

I feel the trigger chaps failed to put him on the ropes re the latter. I suspect many of his views are i in fact deeply embroiled in the things he was rightly taking issue with. I suspect his answers would involved people running like hamsters on a wheel to compete at the price point of overseas labour, but he wasn’t tackled on it.

 

[Purple & Green]

I read one of his books - bounce I think. Or listened too anyway.

He was the table tennis player in a street of international tennis players? I thought he went onto the myth of talent, and the 10,000 hours rule.

The books merge into each other now, especially as a lot of the stuff I read is cross referenced.

 

[egb_hibs]

I read one of his books - bounce I think. Or listened too anyway.

He was the table tennis player in a street of international tennis players? I thought he went onto the myth of talent, and the 10,000 hours rule.

The books merge into each other now, especially as a lot of the stuff I read is cross referenced.

UK number one at one point i think.

This 10k hours thing is the kind of liberal myth he could have been taken to task on.

It will make good players better but it won't get an average person to be a ranking player.

I dare say that Syed's book is not that crude but the dark side of this idea - which serves liberalism and capitalism - is that those unhappy with their lot simply didn't work hard enough. The upside is that hard work pays off - it surely does. But talent is not a myth.

 

[gun ainm]

It is very good, I posted it in the bowels of a thread the other day, but it deserves more prominence.

The trigger guys are hardly alt right, unless you’ve turned into a smear farmer R? They were, however, flapping in the face of Syed’s argument - which mirrors a point I often make - that no government could tell people ‘how it is’ and be electable. I think the trigger viewpoint, that people know things are fucked and want politics engaged with that is correct only up until the point that the necessary implications are pointed out.

As I noted on the other thread, Syed is pretty reality grounded for a capitalist cheerleader, and sharper than both of them I think. Again he mirrored Aggie to a T in his description of us fucking over future generations to keep the party going for the privileged generations and an unsustainable way of life. In this of course he echoed conservatives like Burke more than the liberal tradition.

I feel the trigger chaps failed to put him on the ropes re the latter. I suspect many of his views are i in fact deeply embroiled in the things he was rightly taking issue with. I suspect his answers would involved people running like hamsters on a wheel to compete at the price point of overseas labour, but he wasn’t tackled on it.

Agree with nearly all that, I'd have been interested to hear more about inequality Syed did identify it as an issue but it wasn't picked up on, be also interesting to explore whether it's a systemic failure of liberal democracy that as it ages the decline is inbuilt. Syed appeared contradictory at times on this point but again the lads didn't pursue....he's clearly very bright and he threw some interesting observations and analysis but I too think the solutions discussion was untapped, I think he probably doesn't have them rather than is hiding them though? Just borrowing less is kinda obvious (is it particularly Burkian?)but doesn't provide a solution, I agree on a shift from income to wealth ( he prefers land but perhaps that's the same thing to a degree) tax.

Ps alt right leaning because I think that's where their sympathies lie on some of their key talking points but if you object I retract because it's not the point of the thread anyway.

 

[egb_hibs]

@gun ainm it may not be unique to him, but Burke’s definition “society is but a contract between the dead, the living and those yet to be born” is certainly a famous summation of the sentiment.

Also one that was spurned by liberalism’s pursuit of the ‘permanent now’. Specifically, it’s no real surprise that the boomer generation that scorned the previous generations who set them up so handsomely, would go on to scorn the generations to come. And our generation followed suit. That contract is broken.

I’m not sure what Syed is getting at with land tax. He’s too smart to overlook the complete disconnect between possession of land and wealth generation so I’m sure there’s more to it, but it sounded hopelessly outmoded to me.