The New Zealand Flag debate

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Dub

Dub

Hibernian, Hibernian Ra Ra Radge
Private Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
New Zealand is running a competition to raise a new flag over the country because the old one looks too much like Australias. I prefer option 4 but what say you [if anything]?

As an aside, I saw this on Daily Politics where some stupid english cow stated "Surely it is better to have the queen represented on the flag rather than a silver fern leaf because the queen is much more important" luckily the NZ dude put her in her place and told her that NZ is proud of the monarchy and proud to have the queen as head of state but they didn't need to show that pride on their flag. He went on to say that the silver fern is unique to NZ and is therefore of some great importance to that nation.

Would you like to know more?
 
Dub said:
New Zealand is running a competition to raise a new flag over the country because the old one looks too much like Australias. I prefer option 4 but what say you [if anything]?

As an aside, I saw this on Daily Politics where some stupid english cow stated "Surely it is better to have the queen represented on the flag rather than a silver fern leaf because the queen is much more important" luckily the NZ dude put her in her place and told her that NZ is proud of the monarchy and proud to have the queen as head of state but they didn't need to show that pride on their flag. He went on to say that the silver fern is unique to NZ and is therefore of some great importance to that nation.

Would you like to know more?
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"Some stupid English cow".

If an English person on here posted "Some stupid Scottish cow" would that be acceptable?
 
Smurf said:
"Some stupid English cow".

If an English person on here posted "Some stupid Scottish cow" would that be acceptable?
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BMfS04SCYAEUePj.jpg:large
 
Smurf said:
"Some stupid English cow".

If an English person on here posted "Some stupid Scottish cow" would that be acceptable?
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Deary fukking me Kenny. Did you get out of the wrong side of bed this morning. She was english and in my opinion she was a stupid cow. That fair enough? I wouldn't give a flying fukk if someone posted about a stupid scottish cow unless that stupid scottish cow was my mum. She isn't your mum is she?
 
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Dub said:
New Zealand is running a competition to raise a new flag over the country because the old one looks too much like Australias. I prefer option 4 but what say you [if anything]?

As an aside, I saw this on Daily Politics where some stupid english cow stated "Surely it is better to have the queen represented on the flag rather than a silver fern leaf because the queen is much more important" luckily the NZ dude put her in her place and told her that NZ is proud of the monarchy and proud to have the queen as head of state but they didn't need to show that pride on their flag. He went on to say that the silver fern is unique to NZ and is therefore of some great importance to that nation.

Would you like to know more?
Click to expand...

The shortlist for me are options 4 and 5.

Then 5 gets papped because scottish bigots have made me dislike (:giggle:) , or treat with suspicion anything red white and blue... so 4 it is dubbles :thumbgrin

hate flags in general but.
 
Dub said:
New Zealand is running a competition to raise a new flag over the country because the old one looks too much like Australias. I prefer option 4 but what say you [if anything]?

As an aside, I saw this on Daily Politics where some stupid english cow stated "Surely it is better to have the queen represented on the flag rather than a silver fern leaf because the queen is much more important" luckily the NZ dude put her in her place and told her that NZ is proud of the monarchy and proud to have the queen as head of state but they didn't need to show that pride on their flag. He went on to say that the silver fern is unique to NZ and is therefore of some great importance to that nation.

Would you like to know more?
Click to expand...
I like 1 & 4 in that order.
 
I'd go with No.4. Nice to see they have the guts to ditch the union flag from it too, although the hunesque types on here will be frothing at the mooth.
 
Beagle said:
I'd go with No.4. Nice to see they have the guts to ditch the union flag from it too, although the hunesque types on here will be frothing at the mooth.
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The union flag is an embarrassment, butchers apron a remnant of British atrocities trying to build an empire
 
The Kiwi and Aussie flags should include the Maori and Aboriginal flags respectively. Only decent thing to do IMo
 
Hattie said:
Can't exactly deny it though eh..
Unless you agree with slavery, barbarianisn, rape, pillage.....
History speaks for itself
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You could say exactly the same about the Belgian flag, but we're in a union with them.
 
Four. If we get a majority for one particular one on the Bounce will they respect our decision?

:dali: (dunno what this one means but...)
 
HenryLB said:
You could say exactly the same about the Belgian flag, but we're in a union with them.
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You could say a lot about a lot of things... But I replied to a post actually TALKING about the union flag....
 
Hattie said:
Can't exactly deny it though eh..
Unless you agree with slavery, barbarianisn, rape, pillage.....
History speaks for itself
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ffs. You do realise that quite a sizable contribution to ending siavery was made under that flag. That a lot was done to move people out of barbarism was done under that flag. That that flag was the only one that flew against true barbarism in living memory.

The British empire has its fair share of blood on its hands, nowhere worse than in Ireland where my ancestors come from. But show me a major nation with a better record. Scots were usually the vanguard of our darker moments by the way.
 
egb_hibs said:
ffs. You do realise that quite a sizable contribution to ending siavery was made under that flag. That a lot was done to move people out of barbarism was done under that flag. That that flag was the only one that flew against true barbarism in living memory.

The British empire has its fair share of blood on its hands, nowhere worse than in Ireland where my ancestors come from. But show me a major nation with a better record. Scots were usually the vanguard of our darker moments by the way.
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Ffs
The brutish empire took great delight, much wealth and riches throughout its campaign of building its empire for its own means.
There may have been times when the apron aided certain aspects, but it was built on blood... And it's stains are forever there.
 
Hattie said:
Ffs
The brutish empire took great delight, much wealth and riches throughout its campaign of building its empire for its own means.
There may have been times when the apron aided certain aspects, but it was built on blood... And it's stains are forever there.
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Name me one major power with a better record, apart from the USA.
 
Hattie said:
Can't exactly deny it though eh..
Unless you agree with slavery, barbarianisn, rape, pillage.....
History speaks for itself
Click to expand...

I'm not proud of everything in the past but I don't think like you that that flag only represents that.

I'm not particularly proud of that flag. I don't particularly love it.

But I'm far far from ashamed of it or hate it.

Unless it's flown by bigots like the far right and sectarian scum who follow Scotland's Shame.
 
egb_hibs said:
Name me one major power with a better record, apart from the USA.
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We ain't a major player though..... and we only ever were yin for the reasons Hattie gives, unless your now telling me the countries we colonised asked us to do so?

R.e the flag lol number 4 for me
 
egb_hibs said:
Name me one major power with a better record, apart from the USA.
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What the actual fukk does that have to do with [MENTION=10402]Hattie[/MENTION]s post?

It's the equivalent of saying "I got beaten up at school yesterday by the school bully. Today was okay because I only got beaten up by his second in command"

You still get fukked over but because someone else is beeter/worse than you it makes it ok :dunno:
 
Dub said:
What the actual fukk does that have to do with [MENTION=10402]Hattie[/MENTION]s post?

It's the equivalent of saying "I got beaten up at school yesterday by the school bully. Today was okay because I only got beaten up by his second in command"

You still get fukked over but because someone else is beeter/worse than you it makes it ok :dunno:
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The point is that bellyaching about butchers aprons and stains of blood is a bit empty if you ignore the context, ie human history. Given Britains historical record the union flag represents a record as good as any, in fact far better than just about everybody else. Your comparison doesn't make sense.

Maybe we should rid ourselves of the saltire a disgrace that is associated only with imperialism, sectarian bigotry and the oppression of the Irish in particular.

Or maybe that would be a silly one dimensional appraisal.

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Is banned said:
We ain't a major player though..... and we only ever were yin for the reasons Hattie gives, unless your now telling me the countries we colonised asked us to do so?
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way of the world though. So we displaced the mogul empire, itself imposed on India by invasion and massive bloodshed (indeed one of the most violent episodes in all of human history). On the flip side we left India with a framework for modernity which they look set to benefit massively from. And so on in other places.

In short this is the way human history was shaped and there's no point in taking an ahistorical view of Britains record when everybody else was either worse or the kind of wee place always on the receiving end, or both.
 
egb_hibs said:
Name me one major power with a better record, apart from the USA.
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Remind me where I am giving a toss about any other "major" power? My post was about the butchers apron being steeped in blood and it is a fact.
The way you perceive your history is entirely up to you.
But raping and pillaging one village, then getting to the next one and showing them how to plant the proverbial tattles just doesn't cut it for me.
So all the countries we colonised, used them as slaves for the "empires" benefit, stealing their wealth, Barbaric acts to the natives, this was all for their own benefit?
Ok, I got you now
 
Hattie said:
Remind me where I am giving a toss about any other "major" power? My post was about the butchers apron being steeped in blood and it is a fact.
The way you perceive your history is entirely up to you.
But raping and pillaging one village, then getting to the next one and showing them how to plant the proverbial tattles just doesn't cut it for me
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It's a meaningless fact out of context. Do you feel the same about the saltire?
 
egb_hibs said:
It's a meaningless fact out of context. Do you feel the same about the saltire?
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It's a fact all the same.

As to the Saltire - I'd be more than happy to see it removed from the butchers apron.
 
Dub said:
It's a fact all the same.

As to the Saltire - I'd be more than happy to see it removed from the butchers apron.
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in its own right its history is of association with bigotry and oppression. Are you content we should hang onto this tainted banner?
 
Good points made by egb. Funny eh how the union flag is apparently one to be shamed and disgusted by however the saltire is one that regardless to whatever is to be celebrated and championed. Why I loathe nationalism.
 
egb_hibs said:
in its own right its history is of association with bigotry and oppression. Are you content we should hang onto this tainted banner?
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I don't care about the saltire as much as I care about Scotland. Change it for a banner depicting a haggis if you like, it won't make a blind bit of difference to me.

I would hasten to add that despite your protestations, these cowardly and despicable acts were carried out under the auspices of the butchers apron. It doesn't make it right but that's the way it was. Unless of course you disagree :roll:
 
egb_hibs said:
It's a meaningless fact out of context. Do you feel the same about the saltire?
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You putting the saltire on same wavelength as the apron?
Not following that one at all, you talk about context....
Can't recall Scotland trying to take over the world regardless of consequences, taking delight in the aforementioned acts.
Bloodthirsty and barbaric with an air of superiority in their quest for supreme governance.
I don't for one second think Scotland is a country of angels but the Ssltire does not represent the bloodshed as that of the apron.
 
Dub said:
I don't care about the saltire as much as I care about Scotland. Change it for a banner depicting a haggis if you like, it won't make a blind bit of difference to me.

I would hasten to add that despite your protestations, these cowardly and despicable acts were carried out under the auspices of the butchers apron. It doesn't make it right but that's the way it was. Unless of course you disagree :roll:
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From the Orange order to the Ku Klux Klan, the saltire has been the bigots go to banner of choice whoever scots have exported their cuddly worldview. As well as providing brains to the operation, Scots have invariably been the brutal shock troops of empire, nowhere more so in Ireland.

Of course Scotland and the saltire also represent many other things, and the above would be the height of narrow mindedness if taken as the final and defining word, just as is the case with coming over like a cliched sellick fan re the UJ.

I'm interested in your answer above; if in your Scottish nationalism, Scots history as embodied in the flag is as irrelevant as pursuit of a more socialist polity, and isn't ethnically founded either obviously, then what is it? It's quite elusive stuff in the part of some nats! Mind, your positivity is not disquieting in the way that beagles increasingly embattled depiction is becoming!
 
Smurf said:
Good points made by egb. Funny eh how the union flag is apparently one to be shamed and disgusted by however the saltire is one that regardless to whatever is to be celebrated and championed. Why I loathe nationalism.
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You see no difference of representation between the two flags?
Seriously?
Dreary me, I've heard of denial....
 
Hattie said:
You putting the saltire on same wavelength as the apron?
Not following that one at all, you talk about context....
Can't recall Scotland trying to take over the world regardless of consequences, taking delight in the aforementioned acts.
Bloodthirsty and barbaric with an air of superiority in their quest for supreme governance.
I don't for one second think Scotland is a country of angels but the Ssltire does not represent the bloodshed as that of the apron.
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Yes it does, because it's part of the UJ. And on its own is a bigots rag. If, that is is, we insist on seeing the world through one eye and our brains parked in neutral.

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This has gone so far OT I nearly forgot this was the NZ thread. I've spent myself on flag debates. Last word to You guys.
 
Hattie said:
You could say a lot about a lot of things... But I replied to a post actually TALKING about the union flag....
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"An independent Scotland will have no need of your filthy English comparisons".
 
egb_hibs said:
From the Orange order to the Ku Klux Klan, the saltire has been the bigots go to banner of choice whoever scots have exported their cuddly worldview. As well as providing brains to the operation, Scots have invariably been the brutal shock troops of empire, nowhere more so in Ireland.

Of course Scotland and the saltire also represent many other things, and the above would be the height of narrow mindedness if taken as the final and defining word, just as is the case with coming over like a cliched sellick fan re the UJ.

I'm interested in your answer above; if in your Scottish nationalism, Scots history as embodied in the flag is as irrelevant as pursuit of a more socialist polity, and isn't ethnically founded either obviously, then what is it? It's quite elusive stuff in the part of some nats! Mind, your positivity is not disquieting in the way that beagles increasingly embattled depiction is becoming!
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Much greater coverage than the butchers apron got in it's quest for world domination then.

Why do you always try to twist peoples words Eeeeg. I never mentioned the history of Scotland. You asked about the saltire and I said that I didn't give a fukk whether it was changed to a depiction of a haggis. What I didn't say however was that I didn't give a fukk about the country's history.
 
Couldnae make it up a debate about a fuckin New Zealand flag turns into a Butcher's Apron V Saltire and an English cow (sic) v a Scottish cow. You guys are the real deal.

I shall start an elusive Cheese thread shortly. Let the Cheddar v Crowdie head to head commence !!!

BIG G
 
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