The Edinburgh form guide.

Chris G Whyte

Private Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
With tonight's results, it would appear we've really hit a slump since coming in to 2014. When you compare our recent run of results when compared to the dwellers at the piggery, it doesn't make for particularly impressive reading.

Hearts - P:5 W:2 D:1 L:2 GF:7 GA:8 GD:-1 Pt:7

Yes, the defeat to Partick buried them but since then they've lost to a high-flying Motherwell side by only a single goal, came back from three down against St Johnstone, traveled to Dingwall for a victory and came from behind to win tonight. The bottom line is that the fiddlers have taken the defeat from us and turned it into a bit of form.

On the other hand, our record is looking bleak.

Hibs - P:4 W:0 D:1 L:3 GF:4 GA:10 GD:-6 Pt:1

We've thrown away a two-goal lead at Tannadice, ditched a late (and avoidable) goal to Aberdeen, put in a defensive horror show against St Mirren and been thumped at home by CELTC despite most of us believing we played quite well. What'd have happened had we played badly?

We might say nobody is going to get too bothered about a 4/5 game period, but I think something might have happened to the team since beating the filth on the 2nd. The game at Tannadice was brushed under the carpet due to the emotional rollercoaster of the derby, but that doesn't explain the loss at Pittodrie, the nightmare at home that followed it or the gubbing from the smellies.

And just to sharpen this up into perspective, since the turn of the year, Hibs have been the worst side in the league (only because Dundee United have played a game less). It doesn't make for good reading.

We've all been looking forward to burying the gunts recently, talking about how we'll be the team that mathematically relegates them. Don't worry, we know they're down. But unless things change pretty quickly for Hibs, we're going to be staring down another defeat at Tynecastle and potentially being dragged into the bear pit neutrals call "the play offs"; we're only seven points ahead of Partick and Ross County, who have a game in hand on us.

But what's to be done?

For starters, we desperately need Paul Hanlon back. Forster and Nelson is a relatively new partnership, but it doesn't look to be working and our cover on the right in the form of Alan Maybury is embarrassing. I don't keenly feel the loss of Ryan McGivern because, with Harris back, I think wee Lewis is better in there regardless. That said, we shouldn't rely on wee Boozy too early or too much. Next, we need to sort out the middle of the park desperately. Liam Craig has been fucking wretched the last few games and needs to either sort himself out, or face being dropped. Robertson's return will undoubtedly help, but I think Sam Stanton showed enough against CELTC to stake a claim for a more regular place.

But perhaps more than anything, we desperately need cover. A loss of form, an injury or a suspension is absolutely devastating at the moment because our cover just isn't up to the task.

Beyond that, Terry and Mo need to get some fucking belief back into them. Spiralling down the league is not the type of form you want to take into a play off.
 
How about we just take it one game at a time. Lets not worry about what's happened already.

A playoff isn't even in my thinking right now.... We're as close to the top six as we are the playoff (roughly?) Why look at the negative end first?
 
How about we just take it one game at a time. Lets not worry about what's happened already.

A playoff isn't even in my thinking right now.... We're as close to the top six as we are the playoff (roughly?) Why look at the negative end first?

Because we've lost our last three games, following our tossing aside of a two goal lead against a team in freefall.
 
Settle, petal. The Gunts have carried some luck, we haven't. It's that simple.
 
Because we've lost our last three games, following our tossing aside of a two goal lead against a team in freefall.

Hearts have only won 5 of their last 25 games and lost 15. Scoring 22 and conceding 44.
We've won 7 and lost 10, scoring 21 conceded 27... Played 1 less too.


Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want. Relax.
 
We've a wee break now and the next set of fixtures are winnable,starting with the cup game.

We should forget about how or what the Gorgie molesters are doing until we play them.
 
It's January. It's time for our habitual slump.


groundhog-day-o.gif
 
Stats can be manipulated to show whatever you want. Relax.

I'm not saying they can't be.

What I'm saying is that for the past month we've hardly been registering any points, and the worst side in the league have been. Chalking it up to "they're lucky and we ain't", or telling someone to relax because he thinks it's a problem, doesn't suddenly make the issue go away.

Seemingly, some don't think there's an issue at all. That's obvious.

I, however, do think that losing three in a row when the league is so tight is an issue.
 
Zellviren;1375051. I said:
do[/B] think that losing three in a row when the league is so tight is an issue.

Once again that's just manipulating numbers. Before those 3 games we went on a run which saw 1 loss in 9, away from home to Celtic.
No problem then though....
 
Once again that's just manipulating numbers. Before those 3 games we went on a run which saw 1 loss in 9, away from home to Celtic.
No problem then though....

We had a significantly more solid defence at that time, while also carrying the "new manager bounce".

But I get it.

You think all is rosy.

My opinion differs for reasons already stipulated.
 
We had a significantly more solid defence at that time, while also carrying the "new manager bounce".

But I get it.

You think all is rosy.

My opinion differs for reasons already stipulated.

I don't think all is rosy. I'm not happy we've lost 3 in a row.
I however understand that the reason we've lost those games is a combination of a fixture pile up, injuries and suspension.
I also think the full season is more important than our last 3 games, and because of that I choose optimism over bedwetting.
 
I don't think all is rosy. I'm not happy we've lost 3 in a row.
I however understand that the reason we've lost those games is a combination of a fixture pile up, injuries and suspension.
I also think the full season is more important than our last 3 games, and because of that I choose optimism over bedwetting.

Good to see a difference of opinion gets a personal slight thrown in for good measure.

Cheers for that.
 
Good to see a difference of opinion gets a personal slight thrown in for good measure.

Cheers for that.

Sorry, bedwetting is a term thrown around :giggle: not personal, apologies dude :thumbgrin

I genuinely don't think there's anything to worry about though, we have started showing we can actually create chances, on another day we could easily have had 2/3/4 goals against Celtic and with better defending we could have cut out at least 2 of Celtics goals.
The goals lost against United were down to us tiring because of the new year tv movements and the St Mirren game was a shock to the system because of injuries. We should have had a last minute penalty which would have stole a point in that game.

We weren't too far away from a completely different outcome in each game. Despite the poorer parts of those games.

Optimism :thumbgrin it's contagious and the players will feed off it.
 
The way the league has worked out we're playing a group of better sides then a group of the 'lesser' sides.

We've just gone through the better sides.
 
tannadice and pittodrie are very difficult places to et anything. Celtic...well not many teams beat them. Half our defense has been missing and our bench is rather threadbare at times. Hearts might seem to be picking up some points, but they have actually played together as a unit for a long time without need to keep changing shape. They won a couple of very winnable matches, and they do defend well, but then again the goals against stats may prove me wrong on that.

We are finally bringing players in and also bringing players through. Anyone who thought we would simply turn things around as soon as TB came in has not followed Hibs for long or has a short memory. We need a lot of work and even fitness levels do not change overnight. We have so many bad habits we are going to require a couple of creative players and a natural goal scorer, but there is nothing that would make me rush for the panic button. As for Hearts, they are going down and will have even less revenue in the championship. I cant believe they actually managed to get the money they did for a guy hardly out his nappies, but they do seem to live a charmed life. However other than a sell on clause they may have negotiated, they will now have to look to bring another decent youth up to replace King. We on the other hand have a team challenging in the under 20's and EOS league and hopefully will reap the benefits. We do need to as the crop who won the treble not so long ago did not yield too much in terms of players making the grade
 
I had a bad feeling when we conceded that last minute equaliser at Tannadice in a game we should have won......always hate it when that happens to Hibs because it always seems to affect the teams confidence for the next few games....fact is we have struggled badly against the top 6 teams leaving aside the defensive calamity against St Mirren. What has also been shown up is the chronic lack of adequate cover in certain key positions in the team most notably at full-back and teams have exploited this. We have struggled to create chances all season, but we seem to have improved a bit there although still nowhere near good enough. At the end of the day the squad's lack of depth has been shown up, Fenlon unfortunately did not address properly the problems in defence from last season and we are paying the price now.

I do think we will recover though, and the emergence of Sam Stanton, getting Harris back and hopefully another one or two players in on loan should give the team a boost, but I have thought for months that we will be doing extremely well to finish in the top six this season and I still feel that way. Ironically, I am very excited and optimistic about next season.

Couldn't care less about Hearts btw....I think they will be relegated, and what happens to them after that is of no interest to me whatsoever
 
For some peculiar reason, there are posters on here getting 'concerned' about comparing our recent results to those of the Gunts. Over on the darkside that is Rudiwankfest.com they lap this up, creaming themselves that we are shitting bricks about THEM. While they tend to quote posts from a certain other Hibs fans site, and ignore The Bounce, posts like the opening gambit here is what has them in a lather. It's the oxygen the likes of that Attenborough fucker thrives on.
Hibs are in a transition period (last last one for a long time hopefully)
Mothercare's Nightmares are going down. They're the ones who should be suffering sleepless nights with wet beds, not us.
 
For some peculiar reason, there are posters on here getting 'concerned' about comparing our recent results to those of the Gunts. Over on the darkside that is Rudiwankfest.com they lap this up, creaming themselves that we are shitting bricks about THEM. While they tend to quote posts from a certain other Hibs fans site, and ignore The Bounce, posts like the opening gambit here is what has them in a lather. It's the oxygen the likes of that Attenborough fucker thrives on.
Hibs are in a transition period (last last one for a long time hopefully)
Mothercare's Nightmares are going down. They're the ones who should be suffering sleepless nights with wet beds, not us.


I don't visit JamboThickFcuk very often, but I've noticed that fact too.
Always mini-hunners of posts about Hibs.net and the regular posters on there, who the Thickfcukers seem almost obsessed with. I've never seen a reference to the Bounce or any of our legends like Popsicle over there.
Could it be we are not only wee-teamers, but also merely the wee site?
:shock:


To be fair most Bouncers probably think less of the Thickfcuck site than the s(h)ite of our shoe.

There was that wee dafty who came on here a month or three back but lasted about forty seconds before he was emptied. Presumably his plan was to wittily humiliate us all before reporting back to his school friends but it didn't quite work out as planned. I can't even remember his name - I think he only got the chance to use it twice. :gaga:

Maybe it's just because we aren't as fascinated with them as the blokes on Hibs.net who seem content to study their de-evolution until they eventually regress firstly to troglodyte then eventually to fully fledged Huns.
 
I'm very concerned - comparing ourselves to anyone right now...

we can't be in a transition as we aren't transitioning into anything...nobody is coming in or leaving

we picked up more points under fenlon (fenlon didn't have cairney or harris) - we signed better players under fenlon - now we were shit at derbies and showed no sign of changing that though.

put it this way under fenlon we weren't going to be relegated or be involved in the dogfight for a play off - now i am worried.

now fenlon had to go, the LG cup derby on the back of malmo and the tynie loss had a danger of losing hibs fans for good.
 
I'm very concerned - comparing ourselves to anyone right now...

we can't be in a transition as we aren't transitioning into anything...nobody is coming in or leaving

we picked up more points under fenlon (fenlon didn't have cairney or harris) - we signed better players under fenlon - now we were shit at derbies and showed no sign of changing that though.

put it this way under fenlon we weren't going to be relegated or be involved in the dogfight for a play off - now i am worried.

now fenlon had to go, the LG cup derby on the back of malmo and the The Saville Dome loss had a danger of losing hibs fans for good.

:banger:
 
What am I missing?

every team below us in the lg have made decent signings, we haven't.

We signed a boy yesterday, not even giving him.a chance to show himself?
You think we're in a worse position now than we were with Fenlon?
 
We signed a boy yesterday, not even giving him.a chance to show himself?
You think we're in a worse position now than we were with Fenlon?

personally i'd say we're about the same...when others around us are lifting their game (not the fritzls they are an insignificance - everyone else)

but i'm open to reason....In what way are we better now than when fenlon left?
 
personally i'd say we're about the same...when others around us are lifting their game (not the fritzls they are an insignificance - everyone else)

but i'm open to reason....In what way are we better now than when fenlon left?

Other than when we have a full defence we're pretty much solid? Or perhaps the amount of chances we've started creating? Maybe the fact our goals scored are being spread around the team now?

Or were you expecting 11 new players in January with instant results?
 
Other than when we have a full defence we're pretty much solid? Or perhaps the amount of chances we've started creating? Maybe the fact our goals scored are being spread around the team now?

this season - we didn't concede goals under fenlon (you can bring up malmo - but PF never lost 4 to celtic he got a point) and didn't rely on one player to score all the goals...which is why I can't see progress.

before TB we never beat a top 6 team after TB we havent beaten a top 6 team...our points per game ratio is worse

Or were you expecting 11 new players in January with instant results?

not at all but it feels like we are giving this season up, as if we aren't trying to push for the top six or cup run...not so much a transition as a throwing in of the towel.
 
this season - we didn't concede goals under fenlon (you can bring up malmo - but PF never lost 4 to celtic he got a point)

Didn't concede under Fenlon? :dunno:
This season - we conceded 25 in 15 games under Fenlon (1.66/game)
Under Butcher it's 13 against in 12 games (1.08/game)

and didn't rely on one player to score all the goals...which is why I can't see progress.
We most definitely did rely on one player to score our goals under pretty much the whole of Fenlons reign btw.
This season - we scored 14 in those 15 games (0.93/game) Fenlon had 5 different goalscorers
Under Butcher we've scored 13 in 12 (1.08/game) Butcher has 8 different goalscorers. (Also against Hearts every outfield player had a shot on goal for Hibs, when was the last time that happened?)

before TB we never beat a top 6 team after TB we havent beaten a top 6 team...our points per game ratio is worse
You're right that the points per game ratio is worse this season so far... But Fenlons record this season was 15 played, 5 wins, 7 defeats, 3 draws.
Terry Butcher has 12 played, 4 won, 4 lost and 4 drawn. And considering 2 of those losses are against Celtic I don't think it's all too bad reading.


not at all but it feels like we are giving this season up, as if we aren't trying to push for the top six or cup run...not so much a transition as a throwing in of the towel.

Not at all. We're just being careful in the market.
The players that will improve our team will be available in the summer, whereas players that are available now don't come with any guarantees, look at previous seasons... Who was the last player we brought in a January window that made an immediate impact? Look at Robertson for example, shocking last year, different this.

I'd rather we had a budget in the summer than one in January, so I think we're going about it the right way. A small run of games will be enough to get into the top 6, the play off spot isn't a concern and tbh I can't believe it is to anybody just now.
 
Didn't concede under Fenlon? :dunno:
This season - we conceded 25 in 15 games under Fenlon (1.66/game)
Under Butcher it's 13 against in 12 games (1.08/game)


We most definitely did rely on one player to score our goals under pretty much the whole of Fenlons reign btw.
This season - we scored 14 in those 15 games (0.93/game) Fenlon had 5 different goalscorers
Under Butcher we've scored 13 in 12 (1.08/game) Butcher has 8 different goalscorers. (Also against Hearts every outfield player had a shot on goal for Hibs, when was the last time that happened?)


You're right that the points per game ratio is worse this season so far... But Fenlons record this season was 15 played, 5 wins, 7 defeats, 3 draws.
Terry Butcher has 12 played, 4 won, 4 lost and 4 drawn. And considering 2 of those losses are against Celtic I don't think it's all too bad reading.




Not at all. We're just being careful in the market.
The players that will improve our team will be available in the summer, whereas players that are available now don't come with any guarantees, look at previous seasons... Who was the last player we brought in a January window that made an immediate impact? Look at Robertson for example, shocking last year, different this.

I'd rather we had a budget in the summer than one in January, so I think we're going about it the right way. A small run of games will be enough to get into the top 6, the play off spot isn't a concern and tbh I can't believe it is to anybody just now.

I want to be wrong, I hope there is a plan... as you've guessed I'm not convinced we've made progress (significant progress at least), even a pre-contract for player of caliber would show intention.

...and... until we bag about 10 points from the next 14 odd games I reckon we are still classed as playoff contenders, get those points soon and all will be good, get points after the split and it might get nasty.
 
I want to be wrong, I hope there is a plan... as you've guessed I'm not convinced we've made progress (significant progress at least), even a pre-contract for player of caliber would show intention.

...and... until we bag about 10 points from the next 14 odd games I reckon we are still classed as playoff contenders, get those points soon and all will be good, get points after the split and it might get nasty.

Well we've been linked with 2 Inverness players this season who are out of contract in the summer, James Vincent and Marley Watkins... Vincent I heard we had spoke to about a pre contract.

We'll still be working on pre contracts once this window is shut, I'm confident we'll get players to improve us and next year will be a whole lot more exciting. Butcher and his team have already proven themselves in this league with smaller finances and facilities.. He's a leader and he'll do the damage here... We've got it right :thumbgrin
 
Sorry, bedwetting is a term thrown around :giggle: not personal, apologies dude :thumbgrin

I genuinely don't think there's anything to worry about though, we have started showing we can actually create chances, on another day we could easily have had 2/3/4 goals against Celtic and with better defending we could have cut out at least 2 of Celtics goals.
The goals lost against United were down to us tiring because of the new year tv movements and the St Mirren game was a shock to the system because of injuries. We should have had a last minute penalty which would have stole a point in that game.

We weren't too far away from a completely different outcome in each game. Despite the poorer parts of those games.

Optimism :thumbgrin it's contagious and the players will feed off it.

The issue I'm probably not doing a great job of describing is "form".

It's a pretty nebulous term, and one that's hard to objectively quantify but, to me, "form" is a period of time where a team gets consistently good or consistently bad results. Under Fenlon, we never really had form. We just played the same way and sometimes picked up points; there was never a stage where I thought we were in particularly good or bad form, we just... Were.

How long you think a period of form lasts for is up to whoever you ask, but I'm in the six to eight weeks camp when I think about it. The reason I think form is important is because of its timing, and it's arguably why we've struggled (other than the last two seasons) with the Scottish Cup - we've been in bad form every winter period for as long as I can remember, so we usually get dumped out the cup during that time. The reason I'm concerned about it now is because there isn't that big a gap between us and the playoff places and we're in bad form. Under my view of how long that lasts, we have a few more weeks before we start turning it around and the fact our next league game is against Inverness, a team we rarely get results against, has me thinking it's going to extend at least another game.

I'd be very shocked if we didn't turn over Raith in the Scottish Cup, by the way.

So, what I'm trying to convey is the concept of "form" rather than points over a season.

Also to be clear, I think we're miles ahead of where we were under Fenlon. Butcher's problem (if you can call it that) is that he doesn't like playing with folk in unfamiliar positions, and that's shown up the inherently weak nature of our squad. Our first team is as good as anyone's away from Darkheid, but there are positions we're chronically short of cover on which, when you think about it, is the Fenlon legacy; eye-bleeding 'football' and a bizarre signing policy.

I actually like the January window, because it's a time to get guys in and settle them down in the half-season before they start for real. It's the planning-ahead nature of it I like because, let's face it, even great players often struggle to make an immediate and lasting impact in a team they've just joined. But it's not the time, IMHO, to bring in guys wholesale because I just don't think that works. You do that close season, because you've got the time to bed them into the club, the system and the culture prior to a ball being kicked.

And apology accepted, by the way. :thumbgrin /hug
 
Suddenly my commentary doesn't look so stupid after losing to lower league opposition at home.

That's our season done.
 
Suddenly my commentary doesn't look so stupid after losing to lower league opposition at home.

That's our season done.


Au contraire....... one comment in particular was extremely stupid.






"I'd be very shocked if we didn't turn over Raith in the Scottish Cup, by the way."


:sadwalk:
 
Au contraire....... one comment in particular was extremely stupid.






"I'd be very shocked if we didn't turn over Raith in the Scottish Cup, by the way."


:sadwalk:

Haha, indeed. First time I've laughed almost all day, Doc.